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A home without a wall, |
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| Teen Poetry #9 |
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Blank Verse |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I'm not sure the iambic pentameter is exactly right. I gave it my best shot. It doesn't make a lot of sense and it's written in a guy's point of view. I needed to try something a bit "different." Let me know how I did. Please and Thank You! As thoughts and riddles mesh within, ideas suggest allure beyond my own beliefs. Inside the tattered wounds that suffocate the strands of beauty, grace, allure, divine, I hid the pain and stress, that lead to this. You said you realized things I have been through, The scars of life residing here, my soul. Mistakes of senseless fools, so you now say, But which mistake I’ve made do you pertain to? Bedding her through lust, or you through love? The stones they fell across your face, removed the vines you said had blinded sight like night. Oh, nightly deeds! The thrilling, luscious sins, the moments spent in pleads so loud and wrong. My lips deceived myself, my hands were their accomplice during nights of lust, deceit. Yet, sweet enticing lust, was heaven’s suite. The face of sin was plastered on her head. How was resisting optional to faith? So here, now, I lay blame upon the fool. By fool, of course, I mean you, “my love,” yes. You said yourself you’re foolish not to see the pain I made for thee. You, I now blame. Your breath is stuttered, spacey. Hearing pain and hurt in such a beauty’s voice, I weep. I wish it never happened. I was wrong. It seems a fox I have become. To pass my fault to you was wrong as well, oh, Dear! I see you cry so softly. You surprise me greatly, tears so feeble crash around. Do you now cry for love or cry for hate? I ponder, which you must be feeling. Shoot! It must be hate! No love is felt for snakes. The reptile’s heart is foul, just like my own. I curse it: wicked lust! It made me break our vows, and love. If not for lust, evil and wicked lust, we might be lying side by side. Yet, tears are crawling slyly down your pale angelic face. My fault. All mine. You halt the tears, and swear you forgive me. I look at eyes of beauty I adore. Then, swallow words of love. My pause above the threshold brings a threat from lips so fair. I gaze upon those lips. That gaze is pain. I knew those lips. I know I won’t again. You torture me with words of guilt you feel. Now, guilt I share with empty words in vain. My death, desired above diverse desires. Without your love, I am a wreck in love, a foolish wreck in hopeless love, always. |
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| © Copyright 2009 Michaela J. McHone - All Rights Reserved | |||
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turtle Senior Member
since 2009-01-23
Posts 548Harbor |
Hi Cherry, This is very good  In a couple posts to chop's thread (over in CA) I showed him a some ideas on how to repair errors in clarity and errors in meter. Check it out, if you like: /pip/Forum28/HTML/002431.html  |
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freeand2sexy Senior Member
since 2008-09-12
Posts 704CA, USA |
Yay, michaela you finished it, good for you. I'll leave it up to moonbeam to tell you how you did on the meter. With God I am happy; sadness has no say in my life. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Wow Michaela whatever happened to the Michaela that wrote that Bella and Edward poem back in 2008! This is 100% better than your early writing here at PiP. I don't know whether you've been reading Shakespeare's sonnets, but in places this has flavours of his writing, with some quite complex thought sequences. Also you've woven in many multi-syllable words, and still managed to maintain the meter well. As an exercise in IP you succeeded extremely well too. As you and Christine are probably realising by now poets don't go around counting syllables and checking every word for its stress. What happens is that they develop an ear for what sounds right, and they use the patterning and sound qualities of the words to enhance and compliment the message of the poem - to create tone. As Jim has pointed out in CA, this leads to what people call "acceptable variations" to meter - i.e. places where the meter is broken, but for good reason. The other thing you probably picked up is that after 50 lines the regular da DUM pattern can get very monotonous and artificial sounding, so it's not surprising that many of the best poems in IP very rarely keep to the pattern religiously. The important thing is that you are now getting a feel for IP so that you can begin to do it instinctively. For what it's worth I think you perhaps pushed the boundary of strict IP a little in this line: "By fool, of course, I mean you, "my love," yes" where "my" should be stressed and is probably unstressed, and where "love" should be unstressed and is stressed. Just a minor nit. You used "thee" after using "you" through the rest of the poem. I'm personally not a great fan of archaic words, but if you are going to use them then you shouldn't really mix them with the modern usage. If I was being very picky I'd say "forgive" in the following line is stressed "for GIVE", which breaks the IP a little. "You halt the tears, and swear you forgive me." Finally, you probably had a few too many end-rhymes in these lines: "I gaze upon those lips. That gaze is pain. I knew those lips. I know I won't again. You torture me with words of guilt you feel. Now, guilt I share with empty words in vain." But these are all small points, because in general you did a brilliant job. Now what's next? M |
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Falling rain
since 2008-01-31
Posts 2178Small town, Illinois |
OMFG!!!! This is spectacular!! I simply love this! I love your words in it and yes Moonbeam, She does sound a lot like Shakespeare. Wow this just is amazing... This favorite from you so far. Congrats! -Zach When I see your smile, and I know it’s not for me, that’s when I’ll miss you. |
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abhursty Junior Member
since 2009-02-25
Posts 45 |
It sounded great. I thought it has a mix of old style poetry and new style. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Moonbeam- First, I’m a completely different person now so she’s gone. (Honestly, I wasn’t even fully sober most of 2008.) I did mean what I said about writing better poetry though. “I don't know whether you've been reading Shakespeare's sonnets, but in places this has flavours of his writing, with some quite complex thought sequences.” Is that good or bad? I knew I’d messed up with keeping the IP consistent. In certain places I had trouble thinking of anything to put and just ended up praying certain lines would work, which they obviously don't. I guess I’ve never thought about ’thee’ being archaic before. I’ve heard it used in casual speaking some so it didn’t cross my mind not to mix it with modern speech. I looked back and I have done likewise in other poems. Thanks for pointing it out so I can fix it. Oops! I didn’t think to check for rhyme before posting it. I probably should have. So I passed ? Yes! What do you think I should start on next based on this? |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I'm kinda relieved she's gone Michaela, at my age you forget how long 9 months is when you're a teen and how much things can change in a relatively short time. Anyway you sure did well with that exercise. I meant the thought sequences comment as a compliment . The poem, as well as being near perfect IP was quite interesting in parts in terms of its syntax (check out what syntax is if you don't know already!).Honestly don't worry about the few lines I highlighted - they were minor issues and like I said perfectly acceptable in a regular poem. I'm not sure what age you are living in, lol, but if you've heard people using "thee" in real life - actually scrub that, I've just remembered, some dialects do indeed still use it even here in the UK. Yorkshire I think, and Lancashire too perhaps - if Grinch is reading this he'll tell us. But generally in poetry which isn't specifically emulating a dialect I think it's archaic. What next you ask? How about more metrical practice, but this time using a specific and rigid form (a form is a prescribed pattern for a poem i.e. you have to write it to a particular meter and rhyme). I have in mind a form that might be both fun and instructive, but before I tell you what it is we need to ensure that you can write in a dactylic stress pattern i.e. DUM da da Sooo, first of all study this poem closely for its meter: Myfanwy by John Betjeman Kind o'er the kinderbank leans my Myfanwy, White o'er the playpen the sheen of her dress, Fresh from the bathroom and soft in the nursery Soap scented fingers I long to caress. Were you a prefect and head of your dormit'ry? Were you a hockey girl, tennis or gym? Who was your favourite? Who had a crush on you? Which were the baths where they taught you to swim? Smooth down the Avenue glitters the bicycle, Black-stockinged legs under navy blue serge, Home and Colonial, Star, International, Balancing bicycle leant on the verge. Trace me your wheel-tracks, you fortunate bicycle, Out of the shopping and into the dark, Back down the avenue, back to the pottingshed, Back to the house on the fringe of the park. Golden the light on the locks of Myfanwy, Golden the light on the book on her knee, Finger marked pages of Rackham's Hans Anderson, Time for the children to come down to tea. Oh! Fullers angel-cake, Robertson's marmalade, Liberty lampshade, come shine on us all, My! what a spread for the friends of Myfanwy, Some in the alcove and some in the hall. Then what sardines in half-lighted passages! Locking of fingers in long hide-and-seek. You will protect me, my silken Myfanwy, Ring leader, tom-boy, and chum to the weak. ........ Can you hear the DUM da da's ? Now see if you can write 4 or five lines following this pattern: DUM da da DUM da da DUM da da DUM da da for each line. Later M |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
What’s thee on a bout lad, we use "thee" al'time up north, lancky twang wunt be’t same bout it. Ya wazack. /pip/Forum100/HTML/001213.html [This message has been edited by Grinch (02-25-2009 07:38 PM).] |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Do the lines need to rhyme? |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I'm not sure if you wanted this done with rhyme or in a certain way or not. I tried out the DUM da das. I think this is how they are supposed to be done. Looking in mirrors of promised desires with sweet, longing expressions of gentle delight. The love she was so close to, has passed. Now alone, she is broken with memories. Life was amazing to her. It is time. The one she loved awaits her now. I can always redo this if you wanted it done in some other fashion. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
That's fine Michaela (sorry not to answer your query about rhyme; I went to bed). What you wrote was all I needed to see. Maybe a bit lumpy in parts, mainly because you were quite ambitious with your enjambment (the run-on lines). However you have clearly understood meter and can "hear" what you need to be able to hear to try what is quite a difficult project: writing a Double Dactyl. A Double Dactyl is a specific form of poem, and we are going to write it in the traditional way, by which I mean we are going to try to adhere to the exact rules laid down by its inventors. Start off by reading the Wikipedia link below very carefully: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_dactyl Make sure you understand all the elements that must be present in the poem. Two that people often ignore or forget are the fact that it is usually humorous, and more importantly, that the second line of the first stanza is always the subject of the poem and should be a proper noun i.e. a specific name of a person or place or thing, like President Obama or Texas. You are allowed to cheat a bit and make up words if they fit in as you will see in the examples in Wiki. The only other thing I would say at this stage is that although the first line of stanza 1 should be semi nonsensical, it is cleverer I think if it relates in some vague way to the rest of the poem if this can be achieved. If you have any questions get right back at me, though I am out most of today and may not be able to reply till this evening (my time 5 hrs ahead of Eastern). Otherwise, get thinking! And good luck! M Grinch ty cocker. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Golly this is going to be difficult. I've noticed that many of this form simply begin with "higgledy piggledy." Would you rather me use something else more original or stick with that? |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I think you should use something you make up. And like I say, if possible make it have something to do with the rest of the poem like in mine below. Just before I go to bed, here's one I wrote earlier about Ron Carnell our well known patron of PiP! Lyrical miracle Ronald Carnellian, Passionate poster of verse true and wise. Soon to be, doomed to be Octogenarian, Will the blue pages out live his demise!? .......... Now it's your turn Michaela - go for it! (I put in the exclamation point just because I know he hates them. Heh.) |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Wow, this is NOT GOOD! I'm not great with the whole humor thing. I also think I messed up the DUM da da while trying to keep the form. Sorry...  Tragical magical Juliet Capulet, shot with love fated to fail, now assumed. Family leads to her semi-subliminal, death with her Romeo; teen love is doomed. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
You are far too modest Michaela. That's one of the best first attempts at this form I've ever seen. Nice theme, nice closure, meter pretty much spot on. What more is there to say than very well done.You want to try something else? |
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freeand2sexy Senior Member
since 2008-09-12
Posts 704CA, USA |
Sonnet! *cough* *cough* sry something in my throat, what I was trying to say was Good job Michaela on the double dac... uh that one thing With God I am happy; sadness has no say in my life. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Thanks! I was worried half out of my cotton-pickin' mind. I'd love to start on something else. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Well we can either try another metrical exercise, or maybe something different - connections and metaphor maybe? (Doesn't stop you from writing in meter of course if you want, rather than FV). Let me know. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
It doesn't matter to me. As long as you think it will help me improve I'm up for absolutely anything. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: You sooo shouldn't have said that! Heh. Back later with a suggestion. |
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turtle Senior Member
since 2009-01-23
Posts 548Harbor |
moonbeam you are a precious dear. This is great. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
For what it's worth Turtle, I think you are a breath of fresh air in CA (and elsewhere). I may not agree with everything you say, or how you say it, but your work with nina was nice to read and it was great that people left you alone to get on with it without confusing the thread with conflicting opinions; which is always annoying when you are trying to show somebody something. I think I'd say that you've lifted CA from a doldrums of unconstructive jollity where its languished for a while now, to very constructive jollity - and that's good . |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Oh geez...Lol |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Ok Michaela, how about we look at two of the most important aspects of poetry. The elements that imo lift many beginners away from "beginner" poetry into something more advanced. These are: Metaphor and imagery. Before we start it would help to know that you know what I mean. Hopefully you know what a metaphor is, but do you know what I mean by "extended" or "maintained" metaphor? And imagery - are you clear about what that means in poetic terms? Why are these two tools so important, you ask. Well, maybe you don't ask, but I'm going to tell you anyway. The answer lies in looking at a lot of the poetry posted here at PiP. What do you see? You see what are sometimes called in a rather rude way - "diary entry poems". These are poems where the poet simply lists his or her personal concerns. It's like: a person has an experience (usually a bad one) and then simply vents about it in the form of what is meant to be a poem: "I did this, he cheated me, she broke my heart, I did that, I am hurt forever, my world has ended, I don't like fries anymore, I am sulking, God will save me, my soul is shattered into shards, I have rain in my eyes, my life is ruined and it's all his fault, the stars are falling for me, I'm in love with knives, I have a dental appointment at 3 pm, etc". All of those examples are about as interesting as the last one about the dental appointment to the average reader of poetry. Sure if the writer is your friend or a relative, hearing about how her heart has been cracked by betrayal might elicit a good deal of sympathy and that is of course very fine and proper and nice, but it DOESN'T MAKE IT POETRY. What it makes it is an emotional outpouring which could just as easily have been called a letter or note as a poem. Diary entry poems tend to centre around "I" and "me" and do characteristically employ metaphor and simile, but the metaphors and similes used are almost always those that have been used a zillion times before - souls shattering - hearts breaking - sandy beaches - sad moons - bright stars - bitter tears. Such trope is worse than useless - better not to use metaphor at all than waste words on these empty phrases. Perhaps all the above sounds a little harsh to you, and I don't mean to say that it's terrible for beginner poets to write like this. It's not. Everyone has to start somewhere, and not worrying too much about WHAT you are saying allows you to concentrate on HOW you are saying it - to listen for sounds and develop tone. However, there comes a point where if you want to be taken seriously as a poet, rather than as a person who can write emotional love and hate letters, then you have to start trying to write in a way that will interest a wider audience than simply your friends and relatives who know you personally. That DOESN'T mean to say that you have to start writing about the meaning of life or important sounding themes like the correlation between the mind of God and the mind of man. It certainly doesn't mean that you have to stop writing about issues that concern you personally. But let's face it - we are all human , and what concerns you personally probably concerns others - that's good news because it means you can have the best of both worlds. You can write about your close personal concerns AND appeal to others. The key is to do it in a way that engenders that wider appeal rather than by just listing. So for example: I break up with my girlfriend or boyfriend. Yet she or he won't leave me alone. She or he stalks me, needs me, won't leave me alone. I could handle this scenario in this way: Oh God, why do you do this to me following me everywhere. Don't you see we are through, finished. Why do you treat me like your kid, wanting to boss me, control me, cling to my heart strings and twist them. Alternatively I could one day see as I was walking in the country a farmer carrying a baby lamb and the mother sheep following so close because she so desperately wants her lamb back. Following close even though it means being near the farmer and even though she walks near frightening traffic. From that image I could build a story which says a lot about a lot of things - including the relationship with the g/f or b/f, and also about other relationships. And the exciting thing is, that as you write poems using this sort of technique other connections may come to you which expand on or enhance the original theme, or take it off in an entirely different direction. So before we start, try reading the two poems below and see what comes to mind as you reading. On the face of it the poets are describing the act of undressing, and a story about a terrible flood. But is there more than that there? undressing Beatrice Garland Like slipping stitches or unmaking a bed or rain from tiles, they come tumbling off: green dress, pale stockings, loose silk - like mown grass or blown roses, subsiding in little heaps and holding for a while a faint perfume - soap, warm skin - linking these soft replicas of self. And why stop there? Why not like an animal, a seed, a fruit, go on to shed old layers of moult, snakeskin, seed-husk, pelt or hard green-walnut coat, till all the roughnesses of knocking age are lost and something soft, unshelled, unstained emerges blinking into open ground? And perhaps in time this slow undoing will arrive at some imagined core, some dense and green-white bud, weightless, untouchable. Yes. It will come, that last let-fall of garment, nerve, bright hair and bone - the rest is earth, casements of air, close coverings of rain, the casual sun. .............. The Year the Rice-Crop Failed Melanie Drane The year we married, rainy season lasted so long the rice crop failed. People gave up trying to stay dry; abandoned umbrellas littered the streets like dead birds. One evening that summer, a typhoon broke the waters of the Imperial moat and sent orange carp flopping through the streets around the train station, under the feet of people trying to go home. The stairs to the temple became impassable; fish slid down them in a waterfall, heavy and golden as yolks. That night, I woke you when the walls of our home began to shake; we held our breath while the earth tossed, counted its pulse as though we could protect what we'd thought would cradle us - then the room went still and you moved away, back into sleep like a slow swimmer, your eyes and lips swollen tight with salt. The next morning, a mackerel sky hung over Tokyo. The newspaper confirmed the earthquake started inside the sea. I watched you dress to leave, herringbone suit, shirt white as winter, galoshes that turned your shoes into small, slippery otters. After you were gone, I heard hoarse and angry screams; a flock of crows landed on the neighbor's roof, dark messengers of Heaven. Did they come to reassure, to tell me we'd be safe, that we would find our places no matter how absurd it seemed, like the fish sailing through the streets, uncertain, but moving swiftly? |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Ummm, well I guess they could also be meaning other things than just what they say. “Undressing”- I got many different meanings after reading this a few times over. The main one that stuck with me was sort of like getting rid of one problem or issue and shedding it like clothing. Then deciding to lose all regrets and grudges to hopefully bring more happiness to ones life without the past worries and drama…..???  “The Year the Rice-Crop Failed”- This could possibly, somehow, mean when they got married many hardships arose causing life to not flourish as was desired. The stress could have led the author away from all religion. Then, the couple could have gotten into a few fights between each other making it feel as though the walls of the home were shaking, such as an earthquake. Eventually, God reaches out to the author and lets her know that everything is going to work out…..???  I have a feeling this is going to take me a little bit of work. I’m not going to catch onto this easily I don’t think.  |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I think you did extremely well Michaela. This isn't like a formula or some fact that you suddenly understand like in math. This is about trying to see poetry as a way of communicating beyond just the words. The images in poems, the sounds, language and tone can combine to create effects that you feel, but which can be quite difficult to explain in words. After all, think of it in this way, metaphor is about using something that isn't there to describe something that is. Let's look at an example: "The surface of the lake was slate" Clearly the surface of the lake isn't literally slate, but by describing it as slate the writer immediately gives a picture of stillness, flatness, greyness, coldness. He could have said "The surface of the lake was cold grey flat and smooth, hard looking, indestructible, and the air so still" - but even this long winded adjective heavy explanation doesn't convey the depth of meaning that the simple metaphor does. I hope you see how elegant and effective metaphor can be when used well and with originality. .......... Sometimes I find it helpful when reading a poem not to focus too deeply on the individual words and phrases to begin with, but to try and let the whole poem "surround" me. I try to get my analytical self out of the way and just feel what emotions it raises in me. That can often be a good guide to the direction the poet is going in. Then only after doing that do I start to look in more detail at the language etc. I thought you caught the metaphor in "The Year the Rice-Crop Failed" perfectly. The writer was using the technique I mentioned earlier of "extended metaphor". Shortly I want you to write a poem using extended metaphor so it would pay to study how she did it closely. You picked up this use of metaphor in your comments. For instance you obviously noticed how the poet signalled to the reader that this poem wasn't just going to be about rice crops right from the word go by slipping in the apparently irrelevant phrase "The year we were married". Why say that? It becomes apparent as the poem progresses that the whole piece is basically about that marriage, and as you rightly said, the traumas it faced in its early days. You get that overall sense of fragility and slight threat all the way through the poem, until the right at the end when hope enters into it, as if everything is strange and new, and weird things are happening that the speaker is having to adapt to. A new way of life that is proving dangerous and challenging maybe. Perhaps this is what it can be like when you embark on a new marriage. A feeling that the old things are going and something new and slightly frightening is starting, and you have no idea how to control it, or where it will lead. Look how skilfully the writer maintains the metaphor through the whole poem. The fish references do a lot to bind it together. And even when she refers to her husband he moves like "a slow swimmer", "eyes and lips tight with salt"; there is a "mackerel sky", he dresses in a "herringbone suit", "galoshes", and shoes like "slippery otters" - all fishy watery references. Note the sudden shift after the husband has left from the fish allusions to the "hoarse and angry" crows. About as far away as you can get from the slippery silent denizens of the deep. The reader wonders what the significance of this is. .......... The other poem was perhaps slightly more visceral and as you rightly pointed out possibly lends itself to a wider variety of interpretations as a result - depending to some extent on what the reader brings to the experience of reading. This is part of the beauty of good poetry; it can speak to different readers in different ways. I think that the dominant theme of "undressing" for me was the movement in the poem. The way the act of removal is also a progression towards something. The other thing I find compelling is the manner in which the poem opens with relatively insignificant acts of removal - that, for instance, of slipping stiches - a very tiny thing and then slowly moves towards more momentous removals, until the poet tells us that apparently all there is is earth air rain and the "casual sun". That word casual gets me every time. Why do you think the sun is "casual" - doesn't it imply a certain confidence, a certain nonchalance that in the face of all the doings of man and nature the sun will continue forever casually burning away. And yet we know that even the sun itself is not eternal - it will eventually die away. So what is the poet saying here. Is she implying that nothing is eternal, or is she maybe using the sun as the closest metaphor she can for eternity. In any event this is one of those poems where it is perhaps most useful to look closely at the ending. Are we not seeing here the poet using the act of undressing as a metaphor for the return of all things (humans included) eventually to the earth and to nature. "Yes it will come" she says - note the use of "will" implying inevitability - and we understand that what is coming is that inevitable merging of ourselves with our creator, be it material or spiritual. And of course the whole poem as been leading up to this - the simple act of undressing suggesting a removal of the old and imperfect to reveal the perfect "something soft, unshelled, unstained". There is an awful lot more in this poem which I haven't time to look at now, but also note the lavish use of images. Not vague adjectival references but pictures of things you can SEE - TOUCH - SMELL - TASTE. Ok when you've read the poems again a few 10's of times and read what I've just said a number of times too (if you can bear to ), you will be ready to start on your own poem using the technique extended metaphor and employing concrete (as opposed to abstract) nouns (just ask me if you don't know what I'm talking about).Before you start out writing I'd like you to observe. Carefully. Check out things you see around you today, tomorrow and write down in a notebook or on paper anything that catches your attention or interests you (or anything from the last couple of weeks). I'm talking about actual things happening NOT your own feelings or thoughts, but incidents around you, preferably things that startle you or amuse you or upset you or create some burst of interest in you. When you've done that pick a few - the best - and write a couple of lines, just in ordinary prose, in this thread describing each of them. Try to have at least 5. Hopefully we'll be able to move on from there. If not then it will be back to close observation. Close observation is something poets should be doing ALL the time. Later. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
First, abstract and concrete? Second, so are you wanting me to describe the incidents using metaphors or just common adjectives? Oh, and five lines or topics? Third, I don't think I ever want to read either of those poems again. I've read them so much I practically have them memorized. Lol... |
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Reborn_Phoenix Junior Member
since 2009-03-04
Posts 11 |
I also agree with moonbeam. The ideas you had were good, but the connection with the reader was lacking for me. But from the poem I have read, I can tell that you have ability as a writer. overall, good job. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
First: Abstract and concrete. Usually when people talk to beginner poets about abstract and concrete they are referring mainly to the use of abstract and concrete nouns. This is a brief summary from Wikipedia: "Concrete nouns refer to physical bodies which you use at least one of your senses to observe. For instance, "chair", "apple", or "Janet". Abstract nouns on the other hand refer to abstract objects, that is ideas or concepts, such as "justice" or "hate". While this distinction is sometimes useful, the boundary between the two of them is not always clear; consider, for example, the noun "art"." Although you will often hear critics of poems tell beginners that abstractions are a bad thing, this isn't true in general. Many experienced poets use abstract nouns and concepts in their poems very successfully, but this is a skill that needs to be acquired and is usually only done well by the best of poets. As far as most of us are concerned we tend to use abstractions because we are too lazy, or not able, to think of ways in which to describe what we are trying to say in a specific and concrete way. Why is this bad? It's bad because what happens is your poem then sinks into a morass of millions of other poems which all talk about the abstract notions of love, hate, jealousy, happiness etc etc. After you've read a few thousand poems which simply say I love him I hate her I was happy I was sad, the mind simply switches off. Abstractions are used by beginners in place of really thinking through what they want to say, and tend to result in a vague confusing poem. One of the best summaries I've read on this is here: http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9963 If you read it carefully you'll be a long way towards writing better poetry. (A word of warning, the link is to a site which is a serious workshop site - the informational posts are generally very good, but the site is not for beginners and the attitude of the moderators is extremely harsh. I would not recommend you post there). ....................... Second: Just plain prose descriptions like you would write a letter or a note. E.g. "I was walking for the bus when this guy on a bicycle swerved in front of me hit the kerb and went flying into the hedge head first" Oh, and I meant 5 incidents - i.e. 5 men on bike stories, or dog bites lady, or firework display in town square. ..................... Third: They are good poems to memorize! [This message has been edited by moonbeam (03-04-2009 07:21 AM).] |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Oh goodness! I am soo gald you put that link on this page for me. It's really helpful! I will list and desribe those happenings for you as soon as I get home. Well, maybe in in-school later today. Idk. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
No hurry Michaela, if you haven't had enough recent incidents, events, experiences to draw on - either make them up! or go back further in time. Glad you liked the link. Hope things are becoming clearer. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
The freshman choir class was practicing The Phantom of the Opera. On the final note an upperclassman came in, jumped on the choir directors desk, and sang "The phantom is here!" at the highest pitch in her range. At a teen party a boy grabbed this girl's foot and she made him topple over the computer chair. A guy kisses his bestfriends girl upon her cheek and then takes her hand and leads her into a different room. Running up the stairs, a disheveled teacher drops his cell phone down them and it breaks into four pieces. He mutters a foul word and something about stupid teenagers and picks up his broken phone and slips it into his wrinkled pants pocket. A boy of around seventeen years sneaks into the boy's locker room during an assembly. Approximately three minutes later his girlfriend disappears from the bleachers as well. Twenty minutes after, the girl returns from the boy's locker room combing her fingers through her long, fine, blonde hair. the boy comes out not long after her. I don't exactly understand why you wanted me to write these things down, but here is what I saw lately and in the past few days. I hope these work okay. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
It doesn't matter that you don't understand - in fact it's an advantage that you don't Back soon. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
An advantage?? Wow. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Ok, now things start to get a bit more difficult. But difficult is fun, because in this case difficult means you have to start getting your creative and imaginative side into gear. This next bit is often the part that many poets find the most difficult. That's not always true by any means though. Some writers have ideas tumbling out of them like confetti.. The secret is to try and get into the right frame of mind. Many people find they need to find a quiet place for half an hour or so and just let the mind wander. I have to admit I for one find it totally impossible to be creative if there are distractions all round me. So do what ever you have to do to focus and get that imagination going overtime. What you've done is come up with 5 pictures. We're going to try to use one of them (or maybe a combination) to create a poem which employs extended metaphor and imagery. The thing that hits me right away about the 5, is that 3 of them are quite similar - interaction of boy/girl. It's going to be quite hard to centre and original poem around those scenes (except maybe the chair toppling) because the theme is not unusual. (I may be wrong though, the pictures may trigger some unusual and interesting connection). The other two have immediately obvious potential though. Now, I don't want to lead you too much at this stage, as I'd like this to be your poem, and the spark of initial creativity is possibly what makes it yours more than anything else, so I won't use either the Phantom picture or the Broken Mobile picture to show you what I want you to try and do. Instead I'll use a picture of mine from today: "Lifting a heavy oak log, under it, crouched in a shallow depression of earth, a tiny hibernating toad." The name of the game is to TRIGGER. Trigger reaction in you, trigger CONNECTIONS. When Garland wrote "undressing" maybe she had a flash of inspiration that the act of undressing could be used as a metaphor for a divesting oneself of all earthly things including ones life till we merge back with the universe. When Drane wrote about the Rice Crop maybe her trigger of inspiration was suddenly seeing the fish floating down the street and thinking that their panicky lost yet swift behaviour could be a metaphor for her own marriage. When I saw the toad under the log today ... ?? At this point I find it helps to be really quiet and still and kinda let your mind drift over the picture you saw trying to make connections with other aspect of life that you find fascinating - love, death, war, peace, politics, sex, work, fashion - anything in fact. I'm going to try that right now with my picture ... Brb |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Ok. It's not a particularly nice poem subject, but it's something I feel strongly about so I guess that's why it came to mind. ........ I have this idea about the way in which my mother in law crushed her husband mentally into the ground. He ended up spending his last years holed up in a little room, sleeping a lot and cut off from the world, because he couldn't face the world with her in it. It would have been so wonderful if someone could've one day lifted that heavy weight, the log, (her domination of him), away. Sure it might have been hard for him to wake up (from hibernation), but he needed a push to wake up and greet the Spring. ........ I know all the details need to be worked on, and often something different emerges as the work of writing starts, but for now I have the idea that the weight of the log on the small toad can be developed into an extended metaphor which will tell the story of the oppression this poor man suffered and the potential to be freed. At this stage that's all that needed. Just a very vague germ of an idea - a CONNECTION. Now it's your turn! You don't need to use all of the detail in any one of the pictures you've painted. For instance in the phone one you might just use the image of the dropped phone or the image of slipping it into the pants pocket. You could also mix one picture with another. Just let your mind go free, be zany if you like, weird if you want, but try get your imagination TRIGGERED. Don't worry if you find it hard - if after half an hour nothing comes don't worry that's quite normal. And if after a day or two you are still having problems that's no problem either - there are lots of fun little exercises we can do to get the imagination synapses firing on all cylinders. I'm travelling a lot tomorrow so might not be able to get back to you till late. Good luck. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Uh-huh. So you're wanting me to take say the broken mobile picture and make it in to a poem using extended metaphor? Or what? I sort of got really lost. I really like how you transfered the picture of the toad into something completely different. That was pretty cool. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I know this isn't easy Michaela, perhaps I'm making you leap a little fast here or not explaining well enough, if so we can rewind and try a couple of fun exercises which will help. Let me try and explain agin first though. Ok, we're taking it a step at at time so don't worry about what's coming after at this stage. Just try and concentrate on what I did with the incident of the toad and do the same with maybe either the phone incident or the phantom of the opera incident. All I want you to do at this stage is to try and write a few lines like I did about the toad mother in law thing. As I said before, I don't want to put ideas into your head, but to help you I'll try and show you what I mean: So, the girl climbed on the table and sang the high note at the end of the phantom song. Let's see what I can do with that - MAKE CONNECTIONS! Ok, so this reminds me of life, where everybody seems the same, all singing the same song together in unison, and then suddenly one person stands out and shines for a particular reason or talent. I need to try and apply that to my life - and I can't easily think of something that's really happened, so at this stage it's quite legitimate for a poet to make up a story to make the point. I think I'd go for a poem something as follows: A girl (the speaker) and her b/f go to a school concert. Things have not been going well in the relationship, she thinks he is boring and ordinary. The concert proceeds in a mundane way with everyone singing in unison - suddenly one person stands forward and sings a spectacular solo, filling the girl with hope and inspiration. As she sits next to her b/f she takes his hand, suddenly she realises that he does have qualities that make him special to her. The concert becomes a metaphor for her feelings. The connection I made was between the girl singing the high note and standing out from the crowd with the idea of every person having a unique quality, and specifically her b/f which made him special. ........... Have a try Michaela. Like I say, if you find this too difficult then we can do something that will lead you into it more easily. Whatever happens don't be discouraged, you are a good writer and you can do this. Later. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Just before I go I'll also show you what we are aiming for eventually with one of my poems using extended metaphor, and a few notes. I was watching Skylarks one day in the sky. The way they twitter and then fall through the air kind of hesitating as the come down, before finally plunging to the earth. Have you seen that? Anyway I was a little bit worried about writing about skylarks because poets all down history have done so! But I thought I'd try and go for something a bit different, and I got to thinking that this motion and twittering of the skylark could be used as a metaphor for a very unsure and hesitant lover trying to propose marriage to his girl, and then finally failing to do so (the plummet to earth). I dressed it up in a bit of a story about a picnic in the country, and used the Title of the poem to indicate what was really going on (a bit like Drane used the reference to marriage in the first line of her Rice Crop poem to indicate what the subject of her poem really was). Anyway that's how the idea started - the CONNECTION between skylarks flight and a hesitant lover. Here is the finished poem: Proposal I had intended to do it in the field of daisies and cow pats, spread out on the tartan rug, her mother packed with the picnic, under the meadow-warm sun. And I did start fingering the ring in the warm nest of my pocket, and twittering on like that skylark climbing in ledges up to the peak of its vacuous powers, before the long silent slide back to earth. ...... And finally, this is another of mine using extended metaphor, this time the characteristics of the shearwater to act as a metaphor for the behaviour of the speaker's boyfriend who seems to prefer to write flighty poetry rather than associate with her! The shearwater is a bird that spends nearly all its time at sea flying gracefully looping over the waves - it is clumsy on land. Shearwaters Sullen in the sheets I watch you perched on the gunwale. A mile north of Fair Isle, a mile nearer home, and you're doing what you've done all week, pen locked to the looping curves of your hand, mind somewhere up ahead, rolling out the lines fluidly, in your element. So it is that you miss them. Oblivious to our tender, which has touched the earth and is tainted, they mould themselves to the swell, a wetsuit of space between wingtip and wave. Then they are gone, tilting dark and light, tracing a contour which shifts randomly like water. At the evening workshop, you did not attend, we learned that only the need to reproduce drives them to helplessness. And when the pelagic dream smashes into the cliff top they flop in the thrift, skulk in holes, are easily picked up or trodden on. At dusk you can hold them for a while in a torch beam; then they will crab away like damaged bats. They stay near the edge of cliffs. They cannot lift from level ground. And back with you that night, lying close in the embers of warmth from rich peat, I watched you shrug out of the glow of my gaze. Not even a guilty pause before you tumble up into the abyss and feather your flight with words. [This message has been edited by moonbeam (03-06-2009 04:45 AM).] |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I understand what you're saying now. So is this what you want? A woman's life has always been tired and dull like a simple ballad. She has no family, her career is boring, and she has never left the city she lives in. Each day seems to drag on in perfect, unbroken unison with the next. As she nears fifty, she figures any exciting and fun parts of her life that were meant to occur have already been played. Then she meets a man suitable for a husband. She is always the main attraction to this man. She notices at that point that her life is simply reaching a late crescendo. I'm not sure how good that is for a metaphor, but I guess it works....???? |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Yes! Michaela you're getting the idea. The piece of music being the metaphor for her life. That would work. I'm crosseyed here with tiredness. Gotta get some sleep, back in the morning with my thoughts. M |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Ok, Michaela the idea you came up with of the musical piece being a metaphor for a woman's life would work and you might use it eventually. However I think maybe what we should do now is take a step sideways. We're still aiming at writing a poem using extended imagery and metaphor, but I think we need to some more work on stimulating those "mind muscles" of yours before we go further. Look at your 5 pictures. All of them are concerned with the actions of people: The girl singing the high note The boy pulled over by the ankle The boy girl kiss The teacher and the mobile phone The boy girl tryst in the locker room Metaphors about people's lives or actions tend to work better and be more interesting when they aren't themselves based upon the actions of other people. It's kinda of like using the kiss of a boy and girl as a metaphor for a kiss between a boy and girl - ok, that's an extreme example but you see what I mean. For instance a more interesting and workable metaphor for a kiss between a boy and girl might be the kiss of the sun on the horizon during a stunning sunset. That could throw up a lot of possibilities. So we're going to work on generating some ideas from your mind that aren't necessarily connected directly with people (or at least a person won't be the main character in the picture). For instance in my toad under log picture, the main character wasn't the guy turning over the log, but the toad. I'm going to borrow some ideas from one of my favourite books, In the Palm of Your Hand by Kowit. First of all let's try some more memory stimulation. From the following list just jot down a very brief note of any memory that comes to mind as you read the questions. The more the emotion that is called forth in you the better - if nothing comes to mind just skip the question. Just a very short note is all that's needed - something like "dog standing on hind legs" or whatever it is that is triggered. Ok, here's the list: Recall a pleasant time in the past Recall a building in which you once lived Recall a secret you once had Recall a magical person you once knew Recall an incident that filled you with dread Recall something dangerous you once did Recall something bad or sinful you did Recall something that happened during vacation Recall something that happened near a body of water Recall a form of transport that you liked Recall a piece of jewellery you admired Recall something funny that made you laugh out loud Recall an animal you loved Recall what you liked about a favourite movie Recall a piece of clothing you adored Don't post the notes here. Jot them in a notebook and then tell me when you're done, and I'll tell you what to do next. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Ok, I wrote down all of them that came to mind. I had about twelve that I could think of something for. Now what? I have a question. I don't mean to pry into your life or anything, but how did you learn so much? |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: Wow, that was quick. I'll be right back to you after I've done a few household chores. quote: What a question! You're not prying at all . I am not sure that I know any more than a lot of people who were lucky enough to have my education. In fact I'm darned sure I know a lot less than many. In any case when you get to my age Michaela I'm convinced you'll know a lot more about poetry and literature than I do; after all at your age I could never have written a sonnet like you just did, and I would have probably thought Iambic Pentameter was a sci-fi movie or something. What I do know I learned from listening to people who knew more than me, reading books, reading thousands of poems, and practising. Back in a short while. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Oh, also the other way I've learned a lot about writing poetry is by putting a lot of thought into critiquing other people's poems. I think that by looking closely at other poems and seeing why they do or don't work for you, helps you to improve your own writing. Ok, Michaela you have your notes triggered by the questions. Next you need to select just one of the incidents you've noted. Choose one that calls up strong emotions, BUT ALSO one that might produce a story that would be interesting to tell. (So for instance don't choose a recollection of your first kiss, because although it might be very emotional for you, it's not likely to interest others because everyone has their own first kiss, and it's not unusual. On the other hand if during your first kiss a blue dog with pink spots walked round the corner, then I guess it might make a good story!). Next think about the incident or place, or thing and let it play through your mind like a movie. Try and go back there and see every detail, every scent, every sight and sound. Don't try and analyse or interpret, just let the scene play in your mind. Next jot down on paper every single SPECIFIC DETAIL that you can recall. Don't try and write a poem. Just jot down the detail in any form you like in any order, just as you recall it. BUT ..... : DON'T jot down your own feelings - note down SPECIFIC FACTS AND IMAGES. Try and be precise. So for instance if there was a tree involved, write down that it was an oak, or even better "the old oak split by lightning"; and if someone laughed the laugh wasn't just "a laugh", but the "long slow tinkle of a chandelier in the wind". This is the time to remember those sensations and to be creative Michaela. Don't be frightened of being different in your language. Be DARING - true poets push the frontiers of language they don't hide behind long overused phrases. Make up phrases and original combinations of words to describe you experience. Write down what things in your memory looked like, smelled like, felt like, what someone said, how someone gestured or moved or wept. Was there a doorknob gleaming in the sun, a dog barking on the corner in the snow, did someone's dry cough punctuate the silence. You will probably find new detail emerging - things you hadn't recalled on the first run through. Write those down too. If you find yourself writing a paragraph or a couple of pages that's fine. And of course this is all in prose, this isn't the poem. Don't worry about about making it poetic. These are just notes. But DO try to be original and come up with specific CONCRETE details. Maybe go back to the link I put up showing the different between abstract and concrete. And then if you feel happy about posting what you've written here - do so. Otherwise let me know, and you can send it via e-mail. This isn't something to rush through in 5 mins either, I really want you to extract every ounce of detail out of your experience BUT ALSO use original and specific and detailed language to describe it. Any questions just ask as usual. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I have one in mind that draws emotions out of me like crazy, but I am not sure if it will be something suitable for this. It's about reading in a tree I climbed and looking around enjoying the scenes that came to my eyes. The reason it brings the emotions is because of the surroundings. It's weird. I can describe it well, but I don't think I should use it. What do you think? I don't have many other thoughts that I think I can write on that came to mind when I recalled all those things. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Lol it sounds ideal, if the surrounding were notable and they made a big impression on you. Not sure why it wouldn't be suitable here - I can only think that you mean you were seeing things that if described might breach the PiP guidelines. If sex or suicide are involved then perhaps it would not be a good idea to use it. Otherwise maybe give it a shot, or float it past SEA first in e-mail if you are worried. Remember though not your feelings: DETAIL - ORIGINALITY - CONCRETE IMAGES |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Just another thought. There is a poet here who has a talent for the unexpected, the original. Now I'm not saying you should write like her - who could! But this is a person who is unafraid of zany connections, who is daring with her writing. Sure, she sometimes writes apparent nonsense! but quite often she comes up with the most amazing images. The reason I mention this is that right now I'm trying to get you to break away from the ordinary, to stop describing things purely in terms of your direct feelings (like my heart is broken!) and it may help to get you in the right mindset to read some stuff that is more weird than weird. Anyway here's one of her recent replies: /pip/Forum100/HTML/001379.html#13 That's sane by comparison with her poetry, lol, which you can use the search function to find, if you feel you can handle it .M |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
quote: GRENADE!!! |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Heh heh Grinch - I am quite certain she'll take it as a compliment ... er, I think umm I hope, Don't you think? No? Yes, surely  |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Of course she will, but where do you want the flowers sent if she doesn’t? |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Lol - You, are very bad , but you don't scare me ... much. |
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daddysgurlxx5xx New Member
since 2009-03-08
Posts 8 |
hyz this was a really good poem...in matter of fact it was exellent... i would love to read more of your poems... great job |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
It doesn't involve sex or suicide or anything. Just a lot of details. Wow, her poetry doesn't bore me like most poems I read now do. I like how she writes, but it is a little crazy lol |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Well details are what we are looking for M. Details are good. If you are uncomfortable about posting them here you can e-mail me if you want. Glad you found Karen's stuff interesting - boring is certainly what it is not! lol |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I will most likely e-mail them to you. It will be another day or so before I can get around to it. I remember you saying one time that after an amount of time some poems can be boring to read because they are written in a boring way about a common topic. I'm finding that true in a lot of cases. It's getting rather depressing. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Get used to it Michaela there's a lot of absolute rubbish out there! And look on the positive side: if you are starting to recognise it as rubbish then it means you are on the way to avoiding it! You'd do well to find some contemporary published poets who you like and read them too. No hurry - take your time. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Ok, I've been working on this and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm doing it exactly as you want it or not. I'm probably just being a worry-wart, but let me check just in case. So I need to write it in prose sort of like a story and just describe the seens using concrete details and no feelings? That's what I've been doing so far. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I decided to go ahead and post this on here. It was easier and I have nothing to hide anyways. I do hope this is what you were wanting me to come up with. As the sun broke the purple horizon, I skittered outside with Little Women by Louisa May Alcott. I was dressed in my most adored summer attire, a long white skirt that fluttered around my ankles in the light cooling breeze, and a lace tank the color of ripened strawberries. Dawn was shading the sky with pastels while I skipped past the crooked dog wood, book in hand, to my knotted climbing tree beside the rushing brook. When I reached my reading retreat, I looked towards the sky at the wings stretched from the trunk of the oak. Then, I glanced at the sun coming up from behind the hills. I picked out a limb with a graceful view of the dancing colors that floated across the sky. Water vapors had not yet condensed; therefore, the floor of heaven was a spectacular sight. I pulled the satin ribbon I used to mark my place out of my book and used it to tie my silky brunette hair into a elegant bunch on the top of my head. I gripped the rough bark of the lowest branch and threw myself upon it. Catching balance so as not to topple onto the ground, I grabbed the next available limb and my muscles flexed underneath my glowing pale skin. After climbing up two other branches, I landed on the limb I aspired to read on. The sun finally finished its climb as well. Its light radiated above the hills, streams, and roads. Before opening my book, I took in my surroundings. The clean smell of the rural south blew through the new green leafs. I let my hair loose to fly around my face. The scent of my shampoo mixed with that of grass, manure, and wild flowers. To me, that aroma is equivalent to that of fresh fruit. The pictures my brain received are immaculate. The basis on which God set his plan, was rolled out beneath my eyes. I inhaled the warm air that provides me with life. I waited a for a full measure of the little bird’s “twa-eet, twa-eet” to exhale. At last, I pulled the cover away from the pages and began to delve into the lives of the March girls. My attention to the book was interrupted after reading only a few lines. The minnows playing tag in the brook drew my eyes to their game. I smiled as they tossed back and forth away from each other. As one swam further away from me I hopped onto a lower branch to continue watching the gaiety. My skirt snagged on a twig in an attempt to conquer the perfect sceneries effect. The only thing it accomplished was a short giggle from my sweet pea lips. As the brook’s steady trickle made my entertainment float away, I jumped from amidst the leafs onto the matted green hairs of the earth. That was to be the last day I spent near my oak, my retreat, my strong loyal friend. About two weeks after that dazzling day, it erupted in flames during a forest fire that turned the peaceful woods into a field of giant, heated, deadly, orange flowers. [This message has been edited by GothicCherry (03-10-2009 02:30 PM).] |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Michaela Sorry I didn't come back to you on your question earlier, but you did just fine anyway. Yes, this a the start of a prose plan for a poem. We don't know what the poem might be yet - but that doesn't matter! I commend you on the effort you have put into this, and thank you for doing so. I think we are now moving in the right direction. What you have done here is to begin to move towards an image based way of describing not only what you see, but your own feelings too. If you can maintain this approach and make it a natural part of your writing you will start to elevate your poetry and prose beyond the ordinary. I'm going to take a while now to go through what you've written in detail, trying to point out what I think is good material and maybe areas that could have been developed a little more: As the sun broke the purple horizon, I skittered outside with Little Women by Louisa May Alcott. >>> When you are starting out writing seriously, and you want to aim for originality (which you do) I think it helps to frequently ask yourself the question have I heard this before. If the answer is "yes", it doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't use it, but you should have a good reason for so doing, and moreover if you can add to it or vary it a little that is good too. >>>I mention this because of your very first opening words "as the sun broke the purple horizon". I want you think about that phrase. It's VERY familiar isn't it? The sun is always sinking to the horizon or breaking the horizon. There's nothing wrong really in using it, but even so can you add to it? You've told us the horizon is purple - but horizons are always multi coloured in the romantic novels. Let's hear about YOUR horizon. I can't see it. Is it broken with trees, mountainous, flat, jagged with city buildings, pierced with a TV mast, salty with an estuary, criss-crossed by roads and car headlights, dense with flying duck, slashed by a jet vapour trail, what is ON your horizon? >>>"skittered" is a great verb, well done. More of those please. And the reference to Little Women is good too, portraying the type of girl we are seeing. A young girl skittering, but a girl who has dreams and loves novels. See what you did there? Instead of TELLING; "I was a young girl with high spirits, romantic and literary" you SHOWED - she skitters and she reads Little Women. You might have added a little more too, like how did you HOLD the book? Instead of the rather weak "with" you might have replaced it with something like: " I skittered outside clasping Little Women" and still more " I skittered into the dew clasping Little Women to my chest, it's chafed leather spine pressing the mother of pearl buttons of my ..." - ok, I'm getting carried away now. But of course in poetry and prose it's quite permissible, and indeed often essential, to deviate from actual fact so that the story is a truthful reflection of your feelings or what you want to say. I was dressed in my most adored summer attire, a long white skirt that fluttered around my ankles in the light cooling breeze, and a lace tank the color of ripened strawberries. Dawn was shading the sky with pastels while I skipped past the crooked dog wood, book in hand, to my knotted climbing tree beside the rushing brook. >>>Oops - careful here you are slipping into TELLING again. Don't TELL us that it is your most adored summer attire, SHOW us. >>>And indeed you HAVE shown us. You really didn't need to say "my most adored summer attire". Just the loving way you told us that it was "a long white skirt that fluttered around my ankles in the light cooling breeze, and a lace tank the color of ripened strawberries." was quite enough to let your readers know that it was a special skirt. "Fluttered" was good, as was "the color of ripened strawberries". >>> "shading the sky with pastels" - "skipped past the crooked dog wood" - "knotted climbing tree" all very good images - good work, more of the same please. "beside the rushing brook" - now tell me truthfully Michaela, how often have you heard a brook described as "rushing"!? Let's strain our brain cells for something more original like: "where the brook tips its hurry over the stones" - and I'm sure you can do better my feeble effort if you try (we'll do some exercises on this soon). When I reached my reading retreat, I looked towards the sky at the wings stretched from the trunk of the oak. Then, I glanced at the sun coming up from behind the hills. I picked out a limb with a graceful view of the dancing colors that floated across the sky. Water vapors had not yet condensed; therefore, the floor of heaven was a spectacular sight. >>>This section is quite weak. This: "When I reached my reading retreat, I looked towards the sky" simply TELLS us what you did. Not good. You didn't have to do that. You could have just suddenly been in your reading retreat. Moreover you didn't have to say you looked at the sky. You could have SHOWN us you were looking at the sky. So instead we have something like: "My reading retreat nestled against the bole where a bough had fractured long ago, in the canopy above wings stretched from the trunk of the oak". >>> "dancing colors that floated across the sky" - again this is suffering from phrases that are overused. "Dancing and floated" are probably best used sparingly or you start to sound like you are trying too hard to be poetic. >>>And "floor of heaven" humm. Well full marks for trying to come up with something original. "Heaven" alone would have been fairly mundane. The "floor" of heaven certainly adds interest. Again though you TELL us that it's a "spectacular sight" - I don't want to be TOLD I want to be SHOWN. Show me how it's spectacular. "And the floor of heaven simmered like a skillet full of humming birds" or "shimmered" if you prefer! Ok, I know it's a daring image, but at least it IS an image and an INTERESTING one. I have SHOWN something that's spectacular you can suddenly SEE what I'm seeing. Just by telling me it's spectacular you tell me nearly nothing, I need to know HOW it is spectacular. Sorry to go on ramming this point home, but if you remember nothing else, this is important, remember it please. I pulled the satin ribbon I used to mark my place out of my book and used it to tie my silky brunette hair into a elegant bunch on the top of my head. I gripped the rough bark of the lowest branch and threw myself upon it. Catching balance so as not to topple onto the ground, I grabbed the next available limb and my muscles flexed underneath my glowing pale skin. After climbing up two other branches, I landed on the limb I aspired to read on. The sun finally finished its climb as well. Its light radiated above the hills, streams, and roads. Before opening my book, I took in my surroundings. >>>Ok, all of that was pretty much more telling. There are some strong active verbs "gripped" "grabbed" "threw", but most of the description is fairly mundane "satin ribbon", "silky brunette" "muscles flexing". Pretty tame stuff Michaela. It is hard because as soon as you start to focus on yourself and your own body this sort of thing - cliches and superlatives tends to happen. It's probably best to keep your senses focussed outwards at what you see feel smell touch etc around you. Don't worry, your readers will be able to SEE you, the speaker, through what you see, feel, hear etc. The clean smell of the rural south blew through the new green leafs. I let my hair loose to fly around my face. The scent of my shampoo mixed with that of grass, manure, and wild flowers. To me, that aroma is equivalent to that of fresh fruit. The pictures my brain received are immaculate. The basis on which God set his plan, was rolled out beneath my eyes. I inhaled the warm air that provides me with life. I waited a for a full measure of the little bird's "twa-eet, twa-eet" to exhale. >>>The first half of this up to fresh fruit was great. After that it was awful! The first half you just gave us straightforward well written images and description: the smell of the rural south, the new green leaves, you hair flying, the shampoo mixing with the rural scents, and the personal detail about the fresh fruit. Good stuff Michaela ... if only you then didn't go and try and sound too poetic in the second half. >>> "The pictures my brain received are immaculate" - what on earth! What pictures? Immaculate!? Remember what you learned about abstract nouns and unnecessary or vague adjectives - what the heck is an "immaculate picture"? And then you get into discussing God's plan! What has that got to do with providing specific detailed images which is what this exercise is about? At last, I pulled the cover away from the pages and began to delve into the lives of the March girls. My attention to the book was interrupted after reading only a few lines. The minnows playing tag in the brook drew my eyes to their game. I smiled as they tossed back and forth away from each other. As one swam further away from me I hopped onto a lower branch to continue watching the gaiety. My skirt snagged on a twig in an attempt to conquer the perfect sceneries effect. The only thing it accomplished was a short giggle from my sweet pea lips. >>>Well, when you stop TELLING us what you are doing this gets quite good. You could condense it down to: "minnows playing tag in the brook" - very good indeed "they tossed back and forth away from each other" - nice and energetic "I hopped onto a lower branch" "My skirt snagged on a twig" "short giggle from my sweet pea lips" - good description, good metaphor >>>Really that's all you need at this stage, just short descriptive phrases like that Michaela. The rest of that paragraph is basically just filler, TELLING us what you are doing; that's what we don't want. >>>Look at it this way: Imagine you are a camera. All you do as a camera is record images and events (and smells and sensations and noises). What you do NOT do is give a running commentary as you are recording the images. You do NOT say, "ok I am now panning left to take a photo of a lion, I am turning down the f stop and focussing, now a bit of zoom, then left pan a bit, humm maybe a change of lens, or possibly a bit more uv filter etc etc. You as the camera just get on and record the exciting image you don't do all the boring telling. >>> Now Michaela you need to concentrate on just taking the pictures and recording the images events smells sensations noises! BE THE CAMERA As the brook's steady trickle made my entertainment float away, I jumped from amidst the leafs onto the matted green hairs of the earth. That was to be the last day I spent near my oak, my retreat, my strong loyal friend. About two weeks after that dazzling day, it erupted in flames during a forest fire that turned the peaceful woods into a field of giant, heated, deadly, orange flowers. >>>Again this is a mix of good images and strong verbs with some unnecessary telling. I hope you won't mind me talking to you in a forthright way, please don't be downhearted by ANY of my remarks - they are all made to try and help you improve. Most of all, you can be proud of what you have just done. It's not easy and requires real effort to come up with new fresh language to describe what we see feel hear and touch and you have made a great start. We're going to come back to this in a day or two and condense the whole thing down into short little lines like I did here: "minnows playing tag in the brook" "they tossed back and forth away from each other" "I hopped onto a lower branch" "My skirt snagged on a twig" "short giggle from my sweet pea lips" so we get snapshots like from a camera. But before we do that we are going to try another exercise to really get the creative part of you fizzing (hopefully then when you come back to this you will come up with even more good specific detail). I'm kind of tired now, lol, so I'll post the new exercise tomorrow if that's ok. That's if you want to continue of course. If you are getting bored or tired or too busy just let me know . And we mustn't lose sight of the goal at the end of all this which is to write a really good poem using extended metaphor and imagery. In the meantime if you have time, please could you read over what I've said up above a few times, so that you really really understand what I'm saying. And as always, any questions, just ask away. M PS Apologies for any typos, no time to check it over. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
No worries I'm not downhearted. Really I'm quite the opposite. I am glad you can come straight out and tell me the good and the bad (just please always have a little good lol.) I can't stand for people to lie to me. Of course I want more help and exercises as long as you are willing to give them. Tomorrow is fine. I need time to read over this anyways. Ugh, everything I write always makes myself sick after checking it with you lol but that's good cause then I can fix it. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Morning Michaela Before going back to your snapshots from your tree retreat we are going to try and get you to generate some really hot new language. To help you there are some prompts below. Remember, try to steer clear of phrases and ways of describing things that you've heard before countless times even if this means coming up with unlikely and zany new connections. Go for the weird and outlandish rather than the safe and predictable! All the exercises below are taken directly from Kowit's "In the Palm of your Hand" Effective similes Create striking and apt comparisons. Fill in the blanks below. Your solution may be a single word or a lengthier description. In his rage my father would bang on the wall like a ............... Among her new in-laws the young wife was nervous as ............... I paced the room restless as a ................ Like a ............... , his smile suddenly collapsed. It was the old sycamore in the the front yard, swaying like a ............... Evocative images Strong descriptive language please Michaela. I loved ........... of the wash on the line in the summer morning. I was afraid of his ..........., his drunken, ungainly walk. I will not forget the ............ of your lips, your skin's ........... , or the ............ of your eyes. She wished to draw me deeper into the ............ of her life. Linguistic invention In three or four sentences that sparkle with linguistic invention and originality, describe: A rundown house An old table, desk, bicycle, car or truck (any one or all of them) A particular potted plant Someone working in a kitchen or garden (run a movie of them in your head before putting pen to paper) A small incident seen in the street or store (again run that movie in your head, lots of minute detail please) Make your descriptions come alive using precise, charged language. Describe each item accurately, vividly and engagingly. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to come up with inventive new descriptions and phrases, sometimes they pop into your head apparently from nowhere. One way I've gotten some of my best poetry lines is to let my mind turn odd words and phrases around playing with them randomly in that half awake half asleep state that you can sometimes be in just before you full wake up in the morning. On the other hand if you're one of those people who leaps out of bed wide awake in an instant, then that's not going to work! Good luck. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
One last thing. Before you start the exercises you might like to read this poem: http://www.poetryarchive.org/poetryarchive/singlePoem.do?poemId=1541 It's notable for its wealth of inventive metaphor and simile. Don't you think it's brilliant the way he portrays cheap kisses as lipstick wounds, and small diagonal red doves. How great is the image of eating candy floss as "sweet fog on a stick". A black eye - "an eye loaded with thunder" - wow! And many many more. Read it Michaela and feel inspired and excited to come up with your own new creative images. For that is what poetry is about ... being CREATIVE Now go for it! |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I hope you don't mind me posting each of these seperately. Effective similes In his rage my father would bang on the wall like a housewife breaking ice on the counter. Among her new in-laws the young wife was nervous as a girl giving up her chastity. (not sure on sp.) I paced the room restless as a fly buzzing in a window screen. Like a pencils breaking tip, his smile suddenly collapsed. It was the old sycamore in the front yard, swaying like a loose thread on a button of an elderly woman’s shabby paisley blouse. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Evocative images I loved the tender bend and the clean smelling whiff of the wash on the line in the summer morning. I was afraid of his ..........., his drunken, ungainly walk. (I didn’t quite understand this line so I left it blank) I will not forget the slightly distressed pucker of your lips, your skin's scarred texture , or the shallow gray lines nestling in the blue puddles of your eyes. She wished to draw me deeper into the chaos being constructed during the molding of her life. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Linguistic invention A rundown house The tinkling of light bounces off glass spikes piled upon the floor onto the staircase where more crystal-like puzzle pieces cause hazard for bare toes. Broken boards encase the remnants of memories that crowd corners in the form of ripped photographs, worn-out toys, and quilted blankets. The European style hinged entrance releases a rasping screech into the filthy air when pushed by the pristine winds. (Table) Insects inhabit the deep knots that engrave the table’s ancient wood. The once strong face, the top of the table, splinters into miniscule bits. Missing a leg, its once flawless posture creases into a ledge that sends all clothes avalanching into the dining-room floor. A particular potted plant A weak stalk appears from a circular mound of earth that is held in a thin, floral print shell. Plain leaves frown from the flimsy structure. The frown is discolored with dehydration. Petals lacking care fall from the fragile stem. I will have to finish this exercise later. My sister wishes to use the computer. I hope what I have is ok. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Michaela In a bit of a hurry here but: The first section very good. You had some good similies and they seemed fresh to me. The second section. "I loved the tender bend and the clean smelling whiff of the wash on the line in the summer morning." This is a bit weak because "tender bend" and "clean smelling whiff" are vague. It's difficult to envisage a tender bend and clean smelling is kinda neutral. You need to ground your description in something specific - instead of clean smelling for instance you could have "smelled like a December Atlantic breeze" - trying an be more specific like you were in this: "I will not forget the slightly distressed pucker of your lips, your skin's scarred texture , or the shallow gray lines nestling in the blue puddles of your eyes." This was GREAT - exactly what we want! especially the "shallow gray lines nestling in the blue puddles" - well done. "She wished to draw me deeper into the chaos being constructed during the molding of her life." Again a little vague. "chaos" could mean anything. Tell us what chaos. Be specific. e.g "she wished to draw me deeper into the volcano crater of her life" Try again on the two weak ones Michaela. On this one I think you need to try for something like: I was afraid of his hoary eyes, his mortuary breath, his drunken, ungainly walk. On the third section which I have skimmed you seem to have done a pretty good job. I'll have to look at that tomorrow, out of time now. Later. M |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Michaela, I've been a little snowed under today - I'll be back on this tomorrow. M |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Michaela, just to let you know I haven't forgotten you! Been a mite busy catching up with work. Will be back very soon. R |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
It's fine Moonbeam. Take as much time as you need. I haven't had but a couple of minutes on here at a time myself. I still need to complete that last bit of the linguistic invention or whatever. |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Ok, I've redone those weak ones...Do these work??? I loved the light citric whiff and lively sway of the wash on the line in the summer morning. She wished to draw me deeper into the thunderous hurricane eye of her life. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I loved the light citric whiff and lively sway of the wash on the line in the summer morning. She wished to draw me deeper into the thunderous hurricane eye of her life. The first is MUCH better Michaela especially the "light citric whiff" - citric was an unusual choice of word. I was expecting "citrus". But it works. Also can you HEAR the lightness in the phrase read aloud "light citric whiff" - all those clicky consonants skipping along like the washing in the breeze. Part of the skill of good poetry is to make the SOUNDS work to bring out the pictures too, and you have done that here. Well done indeed, wonderful choice of phrase. The second is much better too. Just watch one thing though: you see how you use the adjective "thunderous" to describe the noun "hurricane"? Well when you use an adjective to describe a noun always ask yourself this question: "does the adjective really add anything?". For instance if you say: "the speedy rocket" it might be argued that all rockets are speedy, and therefore speedy has not improved the image of the rocket in any way at all. Similarly when most people think of hurricanes they probably think of them as thunderous. You may question whether this adjective adds anything or whether it burdens the phrase unecessarily. But hurricane is a good choice. I've been away for a few days and it's been hard to settle down for any long period of time, plus I've had the distraction of CA being closed, so apologies Michaela. I'm home tomorrow evening, so by Friday I should be back to take this further. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Yay! That's probably the first thing I've learned all day. Sorry, I've had a very dull day. Ok, so I need to make sure I don't make it too wordy where it's not needed. Ok! |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I love to hear people say they've learnt something, ty. .Yes too wordy, but particularly watch out for overuse of adjectives describing nouns and adverbs describing verbs. As Mary Oliver has said, an adjective or adverb is worth only 5 cents to the 50 cents that every noun or verb is worth. Check out good quality published poetry and compare it with beginner poetry and you'll find far less modifiers (adjectives and adverbs). Look at this poem by Donald Justice: Absences by Donald Justice It's snowing this afternoon and there are no flowers. There is only this sound of falling, quiet and remote, Like the memory of scales descending the white keys Of a childhood piano--outside the window, palms! And the heavy head of the cereus, inclining, Soon to let down its white or yellow-white. Now, only these poor snow-flowers in a heap, Like the memory of a white dress cast down . . . So much has fallen. And I, who have listened for a step All afternoon, hear it now, but already falling away, Already in memory. And the terrible scales descending On the silent piano; the snow; and the absent flowers abounding. .......... Look how SIMPLE the language is, not made to sound all poetic with numbers of adjectives and adverbs (unless they really add something important). Just a beautiful descriptive poem. It's harder to do than it looks. But that's what we're aiming for Michaela. Back soon. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I will have some time later today to get going on this again Michaela. Meantime, as we are eventually working around to producing a poem using extended metaphor and imagery I thought you might be interested in this little gem posted by my friend Craig in Open: /pip/Forum100/HTML/001654.html Short simple witty, with the use of food as a metaphor for words of rejection, maintained throughout. It's true that it's not exactly "deep"; in other words the metaphor doesn't exactly add layers of meaning and nuance in the way that a more complex poem might, but that's not what this is about. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Nice, I enjoyed that...Lol I probably won't have much time to work on this as soon as you post it, but I will get to it whenever I find time. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Linguistic invention A rundown house The tinkling of light bounces off glass spikes piled upon the floor onto the staircase where more crystal-like puzzle pieces cause hazard for bare toes. Broken boards encase the remnants of memories that crowd corners in the form of ripped photographs, worn-out toys, and quilted blankets. The European style hinged entrance releases a rasping screech into the filthy air when pushed by the pristine winds. This is ok Michaela, but, bearing in mind what I said about overloading with adjectives above, you might like to reconsider some of the language. Don't try to sound too poetic, keep it simple and concise BUT keep it fresh and full of detail. For instance in your first sentence "crystal-like puzzle pieces" is way to convoluted. The sentence might have been stronger as: "Light tinkles off a cascade of glass on the oak staircase, and bare toes hazard a second chandelier heaped in ruins on the stained marble of the hall." But really it's not a bad effort at all. (Table) Insects inhabit the deep knots that engrave the table's ancient wood. The once strong face, the top of the table, splinters into miniscule bits. Missing a leg, its once flawless posture creases into a ledge that sends all clothes avalanching into the dining-room floor. Again not bad at all. You would however do well to try and actually find an old table and just study it closely, making detailed notes. Colour, smell, size, shape, height, texture, material of construction, drawers, steady or unsteady etc. A particular potted plant A weak stalk appears from a circular mound of earth that is held in a thin, floral print shell. Plain leaves frown from the flimsy structure. The frown is discolored with dehydration. Petals lacking care fall from the fragile stem. Much the same comments as the table. This is a hard exercise and, like an artist would probably produce the best picture by studying an actual plant, so would you I suspect. But from your imagination this is ok. I think we are nearly ready to go back to your experiences in the tree. More tomorrow. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I have a weak imagination aso yeah its not surprising that this is weak considering I had close to no idea what I was talking about lol |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Umm, did I say it was weak? No, just checked, it was far from weak Michaela. Like I said, it was a pretty good effort from imagination. I think you should stop being modest or you'll get like my friend Grinch - your imagination is just fine as you've already demonstrated; you just need to work on getting your imagination down on paper!And you know, sometimes it doesn't matter that you don't know what you're talking about. It might mean something at a different time or in a different place or to a different person. I really will get back on this later. M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
No, I was the one who thought it weak. I'm not modest!! Lol... Alright. Just whenever is fine. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Ok Michaela it's time to go back here: /pip/Forum108/HTML/000219-3.html#60 Could you read that post through a couple of times and then start to work on a list of condensed images from your experience in the tree. Like I did towards the end of the post. Just camera snapshots of what you see. When doing this bear in mind the exercise we have just done. No unecessary adjectives, clear concise images, fresh images, new metaphors. Pick up the images you have already noted from your first attempt at describing your tree experiences, and if you can, add some more. Make them up if necessary, maybe getting into the sense of the experience and what you would have liked to have seen and smelled and touched etc, as well as what you actually did see. Remember precise concrete (not abstract) description. Any questions? M |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
I'm sorry I haven't been on in a while. Things are rough. I will get on this as soon as everything cools back down. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Michaela No problem at all, I've been very distracted by other stuff too. Whenever you are ready. And I hope things get better for you soon. They usually do, all things go in cycles I think .Rob |
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Kalysta Junior Member
since 2009-04-02
Posts 41Ohio |
Really loved this ~Kalysta~ |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I'm really glad Kalysta - ty |
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varun Junior Member
since 2009-04-05
Posts 13Punjab,India |
Wat to say Dear... A very well written |
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GothicCherry Member
since 2008-09-16
Posts 471TN |
Okay. I am REALLY going to try to get on here tonight. Mom has me grounded from the internet at the moment for sneaking out too much. I'm sorry... |
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