Feelings |
My plagiarized poems... |
Jeremy Redinger Junior Member
since 2001-02-27
Posts 46 |
I don't know if this is the best forum for this or not... I e-mailed Ron about it, but I don't know weather he ever got it or not (or could reply to it as my mailbox was full for a little bit there). I'm feeling extremely invaded and hurt by people who take my poems and put their names on them... Honestly, people who don't put me as the author don't bother me so much, I want them to, and I ask them to, but that's not what gets me in a big tiff. I was flattered the first time I saw it, but then that luster just sort of went away in the coming days... then I saw it again... and again... Now I'm scared I might even lose my poems in the mess... I never kept an eye out for it... but now I look. Anyway, I'd like some advice on what to do... one of them altered the poem a bit, and the other two are direct copies (of the same poem no less!) To give you a better idea of what I'm looking at, here are the sites... The sites are at - http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/4395/Eternal.html Which is an alteration of 'True Love' - which can be found here - http://www.netpoets.com/poems/love/0026007.htm The others are of "Sadness" and are direct copies at - http://www.blueyeshome.com/poetry.htm (title of page 'my poetry' and always referances as their poetry) and http://www.taintedthoughts.com/poetry/view.cgi?title=sadness Which is a poetry submission site. I already sent an e-mail to the main site, letting them know, and I'm awaiting a response there... but the other two I just don't know what to say, as one is a very respectable personal/alcoholic's help site, and the other one did change the poem a bit. Any help or suggestions? Thanks for your time... ... Jeremy Redinger |
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© Copyright 2002 Jeremy Redinger - All Rights Reserved | |||
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I did only read the first offering...forgive me, as my time is not my own quite often...and yes? I do agree with y'lovie! That is your work... but I do leave this question to those who know copyright law better than I. shrug? this has happened so many times now? I decided for myself until it was my business...grin...I was just the cow squeezing a glass of milk....and that's only a grin until I am squeezing water from a teet, I suppose. Internet laws of copyright will be in negotiation for quite sometime. I can't type and bitch too...sigh. serenity exits....MOO...MOO.... [This message has been edited by serenity blaze (11-04-2002 06:55 AM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I apologize, Jeremy, for not getting back to you. We had to replace a hard disk on the server about the same time you emailed me and things got a bit hectic. Your post here only now jogged my poor, tired old memory. Kit has become our resident expert on this, and she has a ton of form letters she's devised for just about every occasion. I suspect she'll be by later to add her very valuable two cents of advice. In the meantime, since this crops up fairly frequently, there are a few past threads you might want to read to get your feet wet. /pip/Forum29/HTML/000175.html /pip/Forum6/HTML/000655.html /pip/Forum29/HTML/000875.html |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Good luck, Jeremy. Many poets encounter this problem. Be assured, though - that your time-date stamps on posts here at Passions stand as your proof of authorship. Don't let them get away with it - Nearly every incident we've uncovered has been resolved appropriately, and the 'borrowed' works have been removed. Kit will surely be a great help to you as well. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
It is sad when people lack imagination and originality, and outright steal your words. I agree, the grins from false flattery only last for a moment, then you start to boil a bit. Good luck on catching the thieves and offering them some legal consequences. I have just about given up on these thieves, and wish upon them some sort of ....well, poetic justice is all I can think of now, and I'm not even sure what that means anymore. |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
Hi Jeremy … I saw your note, and I've had a look at the first links you posted. I'm sorry you're frustrated with this, and I do understand. As Ron noted, I've compiled a fair bit of information over time and have consulted with an Intellectual Property Lawyer in one particular case with a large commercial corporation on the net, so hopefully, some of the following information will be useful. I've assembled some of it here, in the form of help text for your reference and anyone else who may be having problems in this regard. I'll address your specific issues and links at the end. Searching the Internet for Situations of Abuse: I would strongly urge you to spot check the internet every once in a while for copyright infringement. Although it is rewarding to share our work, and receive feedback, unfortunately, the down side is that there are a surprisingly large number of people who for some reason or another, like to assume credit for such works. I first started reviewing this problem about 2 years ago, because another poet familiar with my work, had found some of my poetry posted with credit given to another author. I started searching the internet utilizing the Search Engine "Google", using their "exact phrase search" however that became very repetitive and time consuming. I now review the internet about once every two months or so, with key phrase searches using a software product called "Copernic". I still follow up sometimes, with the Search Engine - Google separately, as it sometimes still comes up with things that "Copernic" misses . "Copernic" allows you to save key phrases from your poems, and does a relatively thorough search of the internet using numerous search engines at once. Since you can save your searches, a spot-check every now and again is not so cumbersome, as it's just a matter of calling up the saved search and hitting a button. I've had about 200 instances of copyright infringement since I first began reviewing this problem, and have templates prepared for contacting the site owners. Here are the links for Google and Copernic if you are interested: http://www.google.com/advanced_search . http://www.copernic.com/desktop/index.html . Template Letter: This is one of the template letters I use when someone has taken credit for a poem and altered it: If you have a situation where it is a word for word copy, just omit the italicized phrasing: quote: If they do not comply: I've had a few times when I didn't receive a response or action within a designated timeframe using a similar letter to the above, and the poems were still up on the net (always make sure your screen is refreshed just in case you're looking at a cached image though). In those cases, I have forwarded the note to the same person again, adding: quote: If they still do not comply OR if you can't find an e-mail address to the poster: You'll need to be able to identify the service provider of their site, see if they have a specific e-mail address that would best suit this type of problem, and if you don't receive a response in 24 hours from the first person in question, forward a copy of your e-mail, with a cover note to the service provider (and cc the first person). Here is a copy of a note I have used to the service provider: quote: Some service providers require more detail: The reason I came up with the blurb above, was due to a response I received from Lycos in one situation. I thought I'd copy it here, so you are aware of what some of the larger service providers ask of you before addressing the issue. (I also include a scanned copy of my copyright certificate, which I signed and blocked my address from.). The following is a letter I had received when I reached Lycos on an issue and didn't provide enough detail for them. If you don't have a copyright certificate, you could use the rest of the wording, and just eliminate that part, as it should hopefully be enough to convince them. quote: In the links you posted that you have concerns about specifically Jeremy: 1) The one by Sachkia Licorish, although altered, is definitely a copyright infringement and she is taking credit for writing it. I would send her a rendition of the first template letter using the wording in italics about altering the work. Send the letter directly to Sachkia at sachl@yahoo.com I'm having a problem with the next link, so I'll do some research and get back to you on the next two before long, OK? I have a variety of other template letters for different situations as well, but those above tend to work well, and you can feel free to use that wording or alter it to suit your own situation as required. I hope this information is helpful to you, and you can contact me directly if you have any problems determining which letter to send, or how to contact someone if you can't find an e-mail address readily available. I'll try to help where I can, to point you to a contact. Best wishes, /Kit [This message has been edited by Kit McCallum (11-04-2002 10:49 PM).] |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
Jeremy: 2) The second link, regarding your poem Sadness, is clearly a copyright infringement, word for word, and the poster is definitely taking credit. She lists interests and hobbies as "writing poetry", and on the bottom left corner of the page where your poem appears, she states her copyright detail. Not only that, but if you try to "right mouse click" on her page, you'll notice she's disabled copying, noting that "This site and my poems are copyright 2001. If you would like to use one, just send me an e-mail and perhaps I'll give permission to use them". Sigh … I would send the following template letter to: Melyssa "BlueEyes" Williams at melyssafox@hotmail.com Template - Your Poem with them taking credit personally: quote: 3) I can't seem to access the last link to have a look Jeremy. Is this one you contacted already? Try to see if you can access it, and let me know if you can. I tried getting to www.taintedthoughts.com and nothing is coming up. Let me know. I hope this has helped. I've found that as long as you send a professional letter, and don't allow your emotions into the wording, you generally will get a prompt response. If they are taking credit personally ... both you and they "know" they're in the wrong. Many won't write back due to embarassment, some may tell you they've lost the password to edit their site and can't change it .. and I've even had some who tried to convince me that they really did write it, and it's all a grand coincidence. Some make you laugh, others frustrate you ... some just leave you shaking your head. If you need any more help, give me a shout. [This message has been edited by Kit McCallum (11-04-2002 10:53 PM).] |
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Jeremy Redinger Junior Member
since 2001-02-27
Posts 46 |
Wow! Thank you so very much Kit. I was amazed when I saw all of that... Thank you too Ron, very much, and believe me, I understand how tedious keeping a network secure and in good running order can be - I'm sure managing this site must be an extremely taxing job. A big thanks to you Ron, and everyone, who give this place such vibrance and life. Thanks for all the support! It means a lot to me, as well as all those who read this thread (and the ones you linked to Ron) I'm sure. There's just so much information, you have all been such a godsend to me. Kit, thank you once again for all the wonderful information, and templates even(!)... I certainly wasn't expecting that. I must say, it's hard to bite my lip and be professional... considering. A good example is what you pointed out on the site with "Sadness" on it, where a person who right clicks is instructed to ask for permission and they may be allowed to use the poetry on the page on their site... Me, being me, wants to ask for permission to use _my_ poem. Or on the other one there's a link to have your own poem posted on her page - my first thought was to submit my own original poem. I'm still a bit of a smarty-pants at the core, it cannot be helped. But I understand why it is important to be professional, and not let your emotions get in the way. I'm glad I came here for advice before pursuing those particular sites. As for the third site, I received a letter from the host a couple hours after I sent them a letter, and was told that the user's account was closed and all poems were deleted (as per the terms of use agreement on the site). That went very well, and they were very understanding... I'll be certain to post the outcome regarding the other two sites. If I have any trouble I'll let you all know... Thank you so very much for being here. What about sites that post my poetry without an author? Most of them are simply collections of many poems, without authors, that people connect to and truly associate with. There's a site that seems to be in German, with poems in English and German alike. Another site associates with one of my poems and uses it to express how she feels in her pleas for help (finding her birth mother). I don't want to come across offensive to these people, but I'd like to have people know where these poems came from. My poetry is a part of me, each one is a capsule of a moment and an emotion in my life... each and every one is priceless to me, as meaningful as a memory, or a picture. Other people connecting to my poetry and embracing it, feeling my words and my heart... being able to express themselves through it. It means a lot to me... But what if people who can really associate with and connect to a poets emotions and poetry, wants to see more? Or wants to contact the poet and let them know how much it meant to them, or how it made them feel. I love getting e-mails like that... It's a wonderful pick me up for the day, for the week even! I respond to every one because it means so much to me! Ok... I'm rambling, but this is after all the Feelings forum (or was... if this thread gets moved *giggles*) Anyway, I don't want to discourage these people from sharing in my poetry, nor do I want them to take down my poems... But I'd like to have my poems be connected to me in the same way that I am connected to them... So, how could I do this? Also bearing in mind that they COULD have gotten poems from the sites that claimed them as their own (or vice-versa even! Which makes it even more a problem to have no author;P), and so didn't realize. I wonder if any of you-all have come across that, a decent site that credits another person because they got it off that person's site? Rambling again Anyway, I know you understand what I mean... I don't want to come across as a jerk, you might say... I'm not angry at them - everyone has to learn the importance of a proper crediting sometime, I don't mind letting people know they need to... I know, I know, common sense... but it's not really... People take text for personal use (or business... *grumbles* ... that I'd have problems with, but I haven't found any of that) all the time, and just don't realize how important it is to site the source (or, realized even less, the importance of maintaining the copywrite). Anyway, so I've written far more than necessary It's what I do Thank you all once again, and I will definitely be letting you know what happens. Thank you, and thanks again... And again... and again. You've all been so much help, both in what to do and in my morale. Sincerely, Jeremy Redinger P.S. Thanks Nan... I realized that later on, there are dates, I didn't think about that... but I still wasn't completely sure how iron-clad they would be as proof. Thank you for setting my mind at ease. [This message has been edited by Jeremy Redinger (11-05-2002 06:04 PM).] |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
That's great to hear Jeremy! I'm glad some of this information has helped. Alicat here at Passions recommended "Copernic" to help on the searches, and it's been a big help. It really makes things much simpler and far less time consuming. The templates themselves evolved over time with some help from others in wording as well, so you could say it was a real group effort by a lot of us here at Passions. I know what you mean about the right mouse-click part, lol. Over time, I've learned to laugh at most of the situations. Some can still make me steam, but for the most part, it all works out in the end. Like you said .... the e-mails from readers at the main site make it all worthwhile. I think the funniest or most bizarre case I had after contacting someone, was an older man who wrote back insisting that he'd really written one of my poems ... he went so far as to tell me he'd written it while travelling on a plane to visit someone ... etc, and how he was amazed at the coincidence and similarity between mine and his. He even had the nerve to suggest that perhaps "I" had copied "him", rofl. I didn't let up and we went back and forth a few times (with him still maintaining he'd never read my original) ... next thing I knew, his supposed "sister" wrote me, telling me her brother was unbalanced, etc. I'm quite sure it was simply him ... but I played along. Bottom line was ... "she" removed the poem, lol. Anyway ... keep smiling, and if you need a shoulder or some more help, give me a shout, and I'll try to give you a hand. On your question about what to do with a post where your poem is listed anonymously ... here's another template for you ... Your Poem - No Author Name Listed quote: Hope that helps Jeremy ... great to hear you got that other one resolved too, well done! [This message has been edited by Kit McCallum (11-05-2002 07:43 PM).] |
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Jeremy Redinger Junior Member
since 2001-02-27
Posts 46 |
*giggles and feels really really dumb for a little bit* In the template there's a slot for my members page... I don't know where that is? I thought it might be the page with the listing of my poems - but the template asks for that too! *snickers* Let me know And once again, thanks so much for your help and support. Sincerely, Jeremy |
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Jeremy Redinger Junior Member
since 2001-02-27
Posts 46 |
*all of a sudden feels like a git for not responding to you* *snickers* I type... A lot. I am terrible for writing too much But I can't help but find a need to respond to what you've said! I'm terrible, I know... Lol on that man. Wow, that must have been an interesting battle of wits... I find myself at times second guessing myself in the stupidest ways, wondering at times if I really did do what I thought I did. With reguards to these poems, I've analized every memory I can trying to pick out every little bit I can remember about when I wrote it, the circumstances I wrote it in... I'm terrible for it! I'll drive myself insane doing it! But then, it's a wonderful trip down memory lane... so all in all. Lol on his 'sister' responding. I suppose it was the same e-mail address? If so, who uses a shared e-mail these days? Ok, that's being broad but gracious, I'd never let anyone see what's in my e-mail! For all the porn spam I get it's insane... It's easy to sort out the e-mails I need and delete everything else, but gracious if anyone got in there - oh how terrible they might think I am!! Ok, off topic *snickers* Maybe I should just post a new rant in this feelings room. I mean, it's nice... Might help with the huge block I've had writing poetry (very, very frustrating - as everyone knows ) Gracious, I'm such a chatterbox... but really it's because I'm so thankful and excited. I don't have to feel alone to handle this... I'm the sort that likes to have every detail planned out before persuing just about anything serious... and if I got a response back saying something to the effect of 'Go fly a kite', I wouldn't know quite what to do without you all. It must have been a hard road to trek, and reaping the benefits of your toils - referring to all of you who've encountered this and/or contributed to the help here at passions - I can't help but appriciate what it has taken to surmount the information you have provided me... Just looking through the links Ron posted, not even managing to rummange through all of it (yet), you've all worked very hard to set things right, and I couldn't be more greatful. I'll keep my eye out, and if there's ever anything I can do to help, even if it's to lend the hand of support... You've all got it I am in your debt. Now I just have to stop in more... Knowing me it'll be an off/on thing. Also have to learn to stay on topic (!). Oh well... I still have much growing to do yet, but it's nice to know that there's a family of fellow poets here, tight nit and ever-caring. It's very comforting... ... thank you... All. Jeremy |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
You are very welcome Jeremy ... and here's that link to your Passions' main page. It lists all the poems you currently have posted at the main site. http://netpoets.com/poems/authors/0026000.htm You'll also notice the dates along the right hand side, which really seems to help when there's a question of "who posted first" ... it's sometimes the clincher to make it clear. You keep popping in and keeping us updated, and keep up the great writing! [This message has been edited by Kit McCallum (11-05-2002 09:50 PM).] |
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Magnus
since 2001-10-10
Posts 14135South Carolina, USA |
Jeremy, I am sorry that this has happened to you....Makes me wonder about my own work and who might have done the same to mine. Kit...tell me how to get to the link where I can see all of the poetry that I have posted.....(hope you read this)...if you don't I will send you an email.... Thanx, and good luck...hope it works out.. Barry/Magnus |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
Hi Barry. The link I provided Jeremy above, was for posts he previously submitted to the "Main Site" at Passions. If you've submitted poetry to the main site that has been uploaded (http://netpoets.com/) as opposed to here within these forums (/), you'll find your name listed in the main site's "resident poets" links here: http://netpoets.com/poems/authors/index.htm If you've not submitted to the main site before, but still want to find all the poems you've posted here in the forums, there's a few ways to do it ... 1) Beside any post or response you've made, you'll find an icon that looks like a piece of paper with a magnifying glass over it. It's with the group of icons just to the right of the date and time stamp of your post. If you click on that and follow it through, it should bring up all of your posts. 2) Another way is to use the "Smart Search" menu choice at the top of each forum page. Under "include only this author" ... type your member name, click on "exact match" and "exclude replies". Check off the "main forums" and "archives" and select "perform search". That should bring up a comprehensive list of all the poems you've posted here in the forums. If you've not submitted to the main site before, and want to know more ... give me a shout. I hope that helps. |
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Magnus
since 2001-10-10
Posts 14135South Carolina, USA |
Kit, thanx, very helpful....I will see what my little fingers can do with this... |
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Jeremy Redinger Junior Member
since 2001-02-27
Posts 46 |
sorry I haven't kept you updated like I wanted to... it's been a really hard week and a half for me. *shrugs* I fell ill and couldn't do too much of anything, but I did send Melyssa an e-mail... she removed it from her site but stated that she was sorry I saw it as her taking credit for it, she says she wasn't doing that at all... I don't see how else I could have taken it. *sighs* But it's gone so that's that... Then I sent Sacha a letter, and I still haven't recieved anything back... I almost don't care anymore... not enough to do anything right now anyway. Maybe in a couple weeks, I don't know... see... my girlfriend fell out of love with me... turned out to be more of an obsession and stubborness. But she never stopped being an absolutely beautiful person inside... she's always been a star to me, shining so bright in the cold night air... always too far away for me to grasp. I miss her... We're going to stay friends but I need some time away from her, to let go. It's hard... I know this is all wildly off topic but *shrugs* thanks for listening. I appriciate all the help you all provided to me, and if you respond with further help it would be grandly appriciated. I check my e-mail frequently and I'll get whatever is here... it's just hard to find the strength to do things these days. I know it's only temporary, and I know there will be other women in my life... But I doubt I'll ever find another girl so perfect for me as her. She was one in a billion, and a dream come true. And I'll always miss what we had. Anyway, i'm doing it again, I'd better go. Thank you guys for everything. Thanks and thanks again - I truely do appriciate it. *sighs* back again in the world I loathed so much... just me and my sadness. It's almost ironic... in a way, I prefer it this way. Sincerely, Jeremy Redinger |
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Paul Wilson
since 2002-07-07
Posts 4711United States |
Kit~ Thanks for all the tips & valuable info. Paul |
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aries_luv_ppl Senior Member
since 2001-09-20
Posts 1448Universal Mind |
oh my, this is scary. I put most of my poetry collection on the web! What would happen to them? Some people are just horrible. Eliza Simmons |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
sheesh deja vue |
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