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Philosophy 101
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"Is bliss necessarily a goal worth pursuing?"
| Philosophy 101 |
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"Is bliss necessarily a goal worth pursuing?" |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Bliss 1.complete happiness 2.paradise, heaven http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bliss I say, yes! yes! yes! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I think women are more inclined to agree, Mz. D. I've got two words for the guys: "Multiple Orgasm"  |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Dear SB, I agree with you. Someone is going to jump at you, I think.  |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
But then the goal is a multiple orgasm, not bliss. |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
is there another goal? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Brad? I think it's one of those things where you have to be there... *laughing* |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
Allow me to quote my favorite band, Modest Mouse, most likely the greatest band in the past two or three decades.  From the song, "The View:" As life gets longer, awful feels softer, and it feels pretty soft to me. And if it takes 'pain' to make bliss, well I feel pretty blissfully. If life's not beautiful without the pain, well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again. Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer. And it feels pretty soft to me. I fixed it; without ruining the message. Sorry about that. “Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.” [This message has been edited by Edward Grim (07-06-2007 10:52 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
"The best sauce in the world is hunger, and as the poor are never without that, they always eat with a relish." Miguel de Cervantes - Don Quixote Multiple orgasm, Karen, like so many of the pleasures people are most apt to chase, is actually a release from tension. Sex, hunger, thirst, sleep, that incessant itch two centimeters beyond the reach of your finger tips, all these and more are only pleasurable to the extent that satisfaction (ahem) is withheld for a time. Do you really want to define personal bliss as a temporary release from a discomfort that inevitably returns? You want bliss, Karen? Okay, then, here's two words for you: Nar cotics The happiest person I ever met had an IQ of 67. And, yes, at times I very much envied him his innocent bliss. Since I opened with a quotation from Don Quixote, perhaps I should close with what I think are some very appropriate words from Sancho: "I don't know what that is," said Sancho; "all I know is that so long as I am asleep I have neither fear nor hope, trouble nor glory; and good luck betide him that invented sleep, the cloak that covers over all a man's thoughts, the food that removes hunger, the drink that drives away thirst, the fire that warms the cold, the cold that tempers the heat, and, to wind up with, the universal coin wherewith everything is bought, the weight and balance that makes the shepherd equal with the king and the fool with the wise man. Sleep, I have heard say, has only one fault, that it is like death; for between a sleeping man and a dead man there is very little difference." |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
I cut the profanity out myself, why'd you have to cut the entire line? “Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.” |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Please see the highlighted portion of our Guidelines, Edward |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
I know, I forgot. I fixed it. Thanks for the heads up Ronald. Sorry for the mixup. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
There is some pain that nar cotics won't touch, Ron. And I've heard tell that too much of the stuff can kill you. (I don't need to be lectured on narcotics--I have the local obituaries sent directly to my inbox now.  )But--if I ever o.d. on sex, I'll make sure someone sends you the details, though. But I agree with you, some of the happiest beings I have seen were mentally handicapped people, playing like kids on the playground. But when it was time to leave, their bliss was as shortlived as everyone else's. If I have my druthers though, I'll still go for occasional bliss. And yanno, the multiple orgasm is only fair. Women also have cramps, labor pains, and menopause. sighing EVERYTHNG is cyclic, Ron. Thank god/dess. Try having a hot flash in July in New Orleans some time.  There's also meditative bliss, btw. You know about that though. (Drauntz? Was this the "jump" you were waiting for?) *EG* |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
My dear SB, when woman talks about bliss..it is kind of feeling....or I say an imagined life, i guess. It is kind of I wish, i wish..the goal is an imagined good, angelic life. when man talks about it? unbearable to read. all is to meet their desires. not at all romantic...this is a site for poetry!!!!you know |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I think tonight, I'm gonna aim for "bliss" in my sleep! *grin* g'nite Mz. D! (g'nite boys) |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
have a very good sleep, dear SB. many hugs and kisses. and sleep tight. I was just told that a kiwi at night would help sleep better. 99 |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Indeed, Karen, we both know it creates more pain than ever it alleviates. I wasn't recommending it, just offering it as a very costly vehicle. I think the point Brad was trying to make is that when bliss is your goal, the way you reach it isn't important. A frontal lobotomy will work just as well as multiple orgasms and will likely last a whole lot longer. quote: Occasional bliss? Isn't that an oxymoron? A bit like very unique? If bliss equals complete happiness, then frankly, I don't believe bliss exists. But setting aside semantics for a minute, I personally don't think even commonplace happiness is a destination we can set in our sights and hope to reach some day. It's not a goal, but rather one potential result of pursuing our goals. In short, the destination is far less important than how you get there. That's why I believe narcotics, lobotomies, ignorance, and even multiple orgasms make poor vehicles and even poorer goals. Then again, I'm not a woman. However, if memory serves me, men are often just as ambitious in that arena as any woman. The big difference being our quest for multiple orgasms is usually accomplished with multiple women. And, no, that doesn't lead to much bliss either. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Maybe bliss is easier than you guys make out. Maybe it is a matter of knowing when you are happy. Expecting it to last forever, I agree, is folly. Now g'nite Ronboy.  |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
wake up, dear SB, can't sleep yet. You have pushed Our Reverend Sir Ron too close to the ditch. |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Dear Sir Ron, "I personally don't think even commonplace happiness is a destination we can set in our sights and hope to reach some day. It's not a goal, but rather one potential result of pursuing our goals." the feeling of bliss, I am sorry to say this, you can not control at all. it is the rush of hormone which give you the pleasant feelings. It is the feeling that you pursue. To be honest, what does your PIP give you? can't tell because you are not a woman. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I knew somebody called me. (It's that intuitive woman thing, I guess.)  And Drauntz? Don't underestimate Ron. He doesn't push so easily. In fact, I've heard rumors he's actually sweet. Don't tell him I told you that though.  sigh Sleep... Hmmm. How long does it take that kiwi to kick in anyhow?  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Bliss is "happiness". Period. It is a noun formed from the word blithe. In Old English there was a verb for bliss as well, which meant "to rejoice" Obviously happiness is a worthy pursuit. But it must not be the only pursuit and ought to be in conjunction with other important things, such as health, safety, virtue, wisdom, and other things that help preserve and enrich life and worth in this life. |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Thanks Ess. I knew I could count on you. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." there's a lot of responsibility in all of that. and the occasional orgasm keeps the hormones in check so I don't wind up in the penal system. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I don't understand why you will advertise that. I'm sure you have other things that may be much worthier to mention. |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
No. I feel fine with what I've written. I mentioned: Life Liberty Pursuit of Happiness Responsibility then the word orgasm. It's already way down there on the list, Ess. but thanks for inquiring. |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
My dear SB "In fact, I've heard rumors he's actually sweet." Don't tell me that Sir Ron is sweet. I certainly has sensed it but if your words prove that, then each time I write a poem i shall have a good dip in him so my poem sure would shine and much sweeter which is a bliss to them. oh how bad I can get?! have a wonderful weekend, my dear lady SB! wish you had a good sleep last night. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Most of what I was trying to get at have been covered by Ron and, of all people, D. Yet, I think it makes things clearer if we put it this way: What is your goal? To find bliss. Everybody around you nods their head in a knowing way. What is your goal? To take drugs. In Buddhism, one of the trickiest things is that in order to find enlightenment one must not in fact search for enlightenment.* *I can make, I think, a strong case for this statement, but I must point out that many of my former teachers disagreed with my interpretation of Buddhist lore. They did not, however, add anything new to the discussion. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Yeah, yeah, yeah. "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." Yep. I might do the same--after.  Seriously, I used, granted, an extreme example of sensation to make my point. (But hasn't anyone else's ever gone off all by itself?) But if bliss is happiness, then it's an emotion, and you are not allowed to define my emotions. To me it is actually that simple. Hands off my bliss. What I don't understand is why the empasis on bliss being either non existant or at best, difficult to attain. If I decide that bliss is here now--then it is. I don't even have to rationalize that. |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Agree with Dear SB. There is an article just come out Time "the science of Addiction" July 16, 2007 People use all kind of ways to get the sparking of the pleasant center....pursuing happiness. and it lists internet as one of the addiction. Does ignorance hit the button? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
³ª´Â À̱ä´Ù! |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
wrong place |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Sir Brad, "In Buddhism, one of the trickiest things is that in order to find enlightenment one must not in fact search for enlightenment.*" not true. not true at all. They all want to stimulate their pleasure center. by all kinds of way. Do you know the last stage of Buddha? |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Sir Huan, What is the meaning of "wrong place"? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Many a man with far less knowledge, uses his knowledge far more wisely. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
an example? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Someone that flips burgers at McDonalds and knows nothing much about science or math whatsoever, compared to someone that knows a heap about science and math, but uses his knowledge thereof to make weapons of mass destruction. Someone that knows very little about business, but knows enough how to do a good job for minimum wage in a little shoestore at a mall, compared to someone that knows a heap about business, but uses that knowledge to be a founder or manager, and becomes a millionaire, for a Tobacco industry. I am not saying that more knowledge makes us more likely to make bad choices, I am just saying that more knowledge doesn't necessarily make us more likely to make good ones; and that there are many with far less knowledge that make wiser and more respectable choices than many with much more knowledge. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And this is in reference to...? |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Ignorance is bliss, silly girl. Perhaps ignorance should be the goal. If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
*grumble* I just thought I'd ask him what he meant, instead of assuming that I knew... I do very much admire Essorant's precise knowledge of the English language, but I confess that for all of that precision, I'm often left confused. (Not your fault, Ess.) I just have a habit of "huh?" And pardon me for talking about you like you're not here, although I have no way of knowing if you are here or not. ?But anyhoo...shrug. and a hug for m'Larry!  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
It is in defense of ignorance. If a fellow works at McDonalds and flipping burgers doesn't know much about Math or science, even despite McDonalds not being that healthy, he still makes a far wiser choice than a man that knows very much math and science but uses that knowledge to create or use weapons of mass destruction. Likewise, someone that works as an employee at a shoestore and doesn't know much about business except enough to do good at helping sell a pair of shoes, He overall uses his little knowledge much wiselier than a man that knows almost everything about business, but uses that knowledge to make a Tobacco industry. |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Ha! I did get one right. Im gonna put that in my journal. If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thank you Ess. I do appreciate the help. (foggy day today) so |
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iliana Member Patricius
since 2003-12-05
Posts 13434USA |
Ok, now I may be wrong, but I tend to think that bliss is attainable in a variety of ways. Probably only the great masters know the true meaning and hold bliss inside themselves, but here are a couple of thoughts....oh, and I do believe Serenity has found at least one way!  * A baby's smile or a child sleeping; * Listen to the sounds of Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings, just for starters. There is so much music available that moves one to a state of bliss. * Laughing yourself silly. Bliss is fleeting for most of us, but I believe it is a state one can find if one choses to allow it to penetrate their thoughts. The problem is just that most of us don't let it sink in long enough to have long-term effects on our being. I believe it is a choice we make to allow ourselves to feel blissful or not. The most blissful person I ever knew was that way as she laid dying from MS. Yeah....easy to say, hard to do. Yep, you're talking to a split personality here. There's that blissful me; then again, there's that moody one, too. When I find out how to integrate both sides of me, then perhaps, I'll have found that elusive state that we'd currently rather argue about....lol! But, I do think that when we look at the world (and ourselves) from outside ourselves, it is much easier to find, and Ser....mutiple orgasims definitely aide in the transcendence! *chuckling* Bliss to all! (I've been missing y'all.)  ....jo |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Ignorance is good. In certain situations. Especially if working for the corrupt. Makes you angry when you find out, but in a court of law, makes you innocent. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
And then there's the concept of willful ignorance, and the culpability of it. And the concept of imposed ignorance upon others. All ignorance is not good. I think it's safe to say that knowledge is better than ignorance, in a general way. But in our present bent toward what is wrong, we can sometimes make ignorance seem better by comparison to the intricate messes we create. It's the great things which are corrupted the most. Like certain angels, it's the highest beings who fall the deepest. Stephen |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Got here late, but I can't resist- this thread is great! Ess- what if the McDonald's worker making minimum wage (which, BTW- have you ever worked in fodd service for minimum wage? It is the farthest thing from bliss I'll ever know.) needs extra money to make rent, so he deals drugs to 14 year old kids after work? I don't know how being poor and having a crappy job lead, in any way, to bliss. Why do you assume the McDonald's worker is ignorant? Maybe the factory he used to work for just got outsourced to Mexico and now instead of making 20 bucks an hour he makes 6 bucks an hour. In fact, I find it offensive to assume that a minimum wage worker is necessarily ignorant. Maybe he knows all about math and science, but couldn't finish college because of other obligations. Maybe there are no better jobs. And maybe that person thinks that sucks. Karen- you are too much for me. (By itself? We have to talk.) Ron- 'Do you really want to define personal bliss as a temporary release from a discomfort that inevitably returns?' So, anytime I'm not having an orgasm I'm uncomfortable? Wow, I wasn't aware of that. To me, that's kind of like saying anytime I'm not on a roller coaster I'm uncomfortable. Now, living about an hour from Cedar Point, I am a roller coaster fanatic. But... I don't walk around constantly needing to scratch the roller coaster itch, thinking to myself 'boy, walking sure is boring. Wish I was on a roller coaster.' I mean, to me, roller coasters (like orgasms) are a pretty good definition of bliss, because the pure physical sensation kind of pushes all other thoughts/wprries away- so, another case of 'ignorance is bliss,' I guess- but I'm not sure why you think moments of bliss cannot occur. Does bliss have to be constant to really be bliss? If we were constantly perfectly happy... I think you're right, we would be like a drugged out zombie society, with no problems, no aspirations. We would all be content to live as Ess's happy poor minimum wage workers- we wouldn't feel the need to be challenged. Oh, wait- utoppia is really a dystopia. Haven't heard that before. So moments of bliss- to me- are the ideal. And please- what I do with my fiance (or with myself ) in my bedroom is supposed to be as damaging as sleeping around? I think you're conflating healthy urges with (arguably) unhealthy practice- I don't think masturbation is the same as a series of one-night stands. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: No, of course not, Amy. However, generally, any time you want an orgasm, it's going to be the result of discomfort. Similarly, while any time you're not eating doesn't necessarily mean you're hungry, you nonetheless (again, generally) only eat when you're hungry. Our greatest physical pleasures are ALL a release from tension. quote: I'm merely accepting the defining premise of the originating poster, Amy, and going from there. If the definition of bliss is "complete happiness" or "heaven," then no, I don't think it can be fleeting. I think the connotations of bliss, as opposed to happiness, suggest more. But, as I said earlier, it doesn't greatly matter. Even if we agree on a definition that includes only momentarily bliss, I don't believe bliss or happiness is a viable goal, but rather, a potential consequence. Remember, your actions are determined by your goals. If your goal was bliss, Amy, you could just sit on a roller coaster all day long. Or get that lobotomy I was talking about earlier. A destination doesn't determine (or eliminate) the vehicle. I honestly believe that people who chase happiness as a principal goal too often choose the easier vehicles -- like drugs, alcohol, or fleeting relationships. The people who shift their focus to the vehicle as a goal, not just a means of arriving, seem to make better choices and, ironically, are more likely to find a more lasting happiness. quote: Not sure where that came from? Was it directed at me, Amy? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
quote: I'm gonna have to write that down. *laughing* That could be helpful if I ever figure out what the heck it is I actually need... And amy? Just keep in mind, that when I talk, I have little to no edit function in my brain. I'll give you a hint though: Meditative bliss. It happened to me. It could happen to you.  |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I think it works both ways, Karen. Looking at a person's actions can often tell you what they really want. And I'm sure it would come as no great surprise to hear it's not always what they tell you they want? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
ah...wants and needs and imbetweens... These guys sum that up for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FqGz0z4dI0 But you know, if you want or need to define "bliss" out of your reality, it makes me sad for you, but it's none of my business. Maybe when "want" and "need" agree, therein lies bliss. But in my own experience, it happens on its own--when I'm not thinking about it--or anythink at all. |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
want-need bliss or need, want, bliss Our mommas would have us thinking as young ladies-- his needs make you want to never bliss or you never need to want any bliss but I prefer a bliss on my need want. Just a li'l word play with the current topics. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Needs are relevant to actions, Karen, only insofar as they become wants. I think surprisingly few ever do, and thus those things we most need go rarely realized. When push comes to shove, we are driven by desire, not by need. quote: Thanks, Karen, but your [This message has been edited by Ron (07-19-2007 09:39 AM).] |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Well, I'm not sure where we parted ways in our line of thinking. I somehow got the idea that you thought for bliss to be bliss had to be "fixed". |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Oh, and btw? laughing here I happen to be a practicing celibate, so much so, I oughtta play Carnegie Hall. I meant no "pity", Ron. There's no doubt in my mind you could have whatever you want--but I'll re-read the thread. I somehow had the idea that your idea of bliss was a non-fluctuating state. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
It's 4:14 my time, and I can't believe how one thought can keep me awake. I'm appalled that you took my sympathies, however misplaced, as "pity" Ron. I hate the stuff, m'self. But I thought I'd sum up how I feel about "bliss" with some carefully chosen words. I know they were chosen carefully because I did not write them.  "Dream delivers us to dream, and there is no end to illusion. Life is a train of moods like a string of beads, and as we pass through them they prove to be many-colored lenses which paint the world their own hue, and each shows only what lies in its focus. […] Nature and books belong to the eyes that see them. It depends on the mood of the man whether he shall see the sunset or the fine poem. (The Portable Emerson, 269)" Ralph Waldo Emerson Do we choose to see the sunset or the fine poem, or do we choose to define it out of existance? Which sort of ties into my other thread--and again I love serendipity, because as I was pondering all of this, I thought that our problem lies not in each other, but in our definitions. From the script of the animated film Waking Life: "Creation seems to come out of imperfection. It seems to come out of a striving and a frustration. And this is where I think language came from. I mean, it came from our desire to transcend our isolation and have some sort of connection with one another. And it had to be easy when it was just simple survival. Like, you know, "water." We came up with a sound for that. Or "Saber-toothed tiger right behind you." We came up with a sound for that. But when it gets really interesting, I think, is when we use that same system of symbols to communicate all the abstract and intangible things that we’re experiencing. What is, like, frustration? Or what is anger or love? When I say "love," the sound comes out of my mouth and it hits the other person’s ear, travels through this Byzantine conduit in their brain, you know, through their memories of love or lack of love, and they register what I’m saying and they say yes, they understand. But how do I know they understand? Because words are inert. They’re just symbols. They’re dead, you know? And so much of our experience is intangible. So much of what we perceive cannot be expressed. It’s unspeakable. And yet, you know, when we communicate with one another, and we feel that we’ve connected, and we think that we’re understood, I think we have a feeling of almost spiritual communion. And that feeling might be transient, but I think it’s what we live for." That pretty much explains why I say your bliss is none of my business--it's personal. And, as stated above, I think I have to agree that so is frustration. Now, g'nite Ronnie Baby. Dream sweet. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Your confusion is my fault, Karen, for not communicating better. It's difficult, though, because we have (at least) three different definitions of the word bliss competing for attention in this thread. Drauntz's definition in the originating post, in my opinion, connotes a fixed, non-fluctuating state and is what I've been arguing throughout this thread cannot exist. I think "complete happiness" is one of those oxymorons you claim to so love. Then, we also have your definition of the word. I was very careful in my last post to say, "What you call bliss is still very much a part of my reality." And then, of course, we have my own personal definition, which is closer to yours than to Drauntz's, but would probably have to go a little beyond just physical pleasure. There's certainly nothing wrong with feeling good, but to me, the word bliss has to offer more. Regardless of the definition, however, my primary point remains the same: Bliss (or happiness) has to be a consequence of actions, not a goal that determines actions, if it is to remain healthy. quote: I changed my earlier post. Better? quote: Personally, Karen, I would choose to see the sunset and fine poem without trying to turn them into superlatives. I recognize the immense pleasure of a beautiful sunset and the deep satisfaction of a fine poem, but I've never seen either a sunset or a poem that defined my life. I don't think that diminishes what they are and I certainly don't think it defines them out existence. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Much better, thank you. And to clear up matters further, I think that the physical sensations, such as orgasm are moments of bliss simply because they put me in that place of "non-thought". Pain can do that too, but one would pay more for that service--it's generally listed in the adult ads as "stress relief". Seriously. Statistics usually indicate that clients of such services are usually lawyers, doctors, judges--people who tend to need to exhibit a great deal of emotional control in a high pressure job situation. Apparently that place of "no thought" is appealing to them. (No pun intended to the judges.) One man's ceiling is another man's floor. *shrug* And I'm smiling here, 'cause about that poem, or sunset defining you? I don't think we can accurately define ourselves. We can certainly attempt to manage our behaviors to leave a legacy that might come close to what memory we would hope for ourselves. But we're a little too close to the subject to make the call. Besides, your life ain't over--so any attempt at definition would be incomplete. But I think we do kinda sorta agree. Maybe now I can sleep? That would be bliss about now. Maybe. I have nightmares too. *laughing and wincing* |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
What's the difference between sympathy and pity? I know how I react to the two different words, I'm just not sure that there's much of a legitimate difference. Anybody willing to enlighten me? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm still up because now I'm pondering that very question, Brad. Pity...it just has negative connotations for me. But sympathy, is somehow more subtle, and implies a possibility of compassion. And nope, I didn't look 'em up. Where is Essorant, anyway? |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
LOL. When I noted that I had made the change to my post, I also originally commented that it changed the meaning not at all. I deleted that comment, though, because I think connotation is every bit as important (and hard to separate from) meaning. Especially for poets. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Yay! I get to nod agreement with Ron again! Since I'm still up anyway, I was thinking how media and cultural influences play a part in this. Tone is so very difficult to capture anyhow, but when I think of "pity" now, I think of a hostile Mr. T "Pity the fool!" or the weary observation of someone saying, "oh she's having a pity party again" ( my hearing is exceptional sometimes)but I think, that context, context, context is what I should have been paying attention to, and not the one word. (Sorry for the transference on my part there, Ron.)"Pity" just sounds like a sneer to me, and I was appalled because I would never sneer at Ron. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Brad, If I may offer a suggestion ... "Pity" and "Compassion" actually differ very little as far as traditional usage, and etymology goes. I think somewhere along the line, this legitimate word was used in an unloving way, denoting a mere negative feeling about someone's circumstances. We've all heard people use the phrase "I pity you" in a derisive way, in a way meant to make someone else ashamed. And thus, in many minds, it has this negative connotation attached, which may involve real sorrow at another's suffering, but carries with it a kind of despising. I prefer the traditional usage. Stephen. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Was there something wrong with the way I said it?  Watch it boys, Karen slept! And blissfully, too! (I think it's a goal we'd all agree I should pursue regularly too!)I'm good to go for oh, I dunno, maybe four days this time? ---------------zip |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Pity is a variant spelling of piety, from Latin pietas "duty, kindness; devotion". But sympathy comes from french and latin forms of the Greek συμπαθεια [sympatheia] "a sharing together of feelings" an abstract noun formed from συμπαθες [sympathes] "having similar feelings", an adjective from συν [syn] "with, together" + παθος [pathos] "feeling, experience, suffering". |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thank you very much Essorant. |
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