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Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

0 posted 2007-07-19 02:44 AM

Obsequium parit amicos, veritas parit odium

"Compliance begets friends, truth begets hate"

- Cicero

If telling the truth meant no one would be your friend, and lying and flattery meant that everyone would be your friend, which would you do?

oceanvu2
Senior Member

since 2007-02-24

Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

1 posted 2007-07-19 10:13 AM

Hi Essorant! This is a tricky question. If you mean no one in a literal sense, I'd be inclined to flatter; if you mean everyone in a literal sense, I'd be inclined to tell the truth. I don't want to be totally alone, and I couldn't possibly handle the burden of being everybody's friend.

Best, Jim

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

2 posted 2007-07-19 10:58 AM

Yes, literally. But in this hypthetical case, I am suggesting you can't have both. You may only choose one or the other. What do you think is more important: truth or friendship?

If lies were the way and the only way to get friendship and love, would you still choose friendship and love?

[This message has been edited by Essorant (07-19-2007 12:03 PM).]

oceanvu2
Senior Member

since 2007-02-24

Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

3 posted 2007-07-19 01:40 PM

I'd lie.  The abstract "truth" has a way of taking care of itself.  Me, I'm just human.

Isn't it possible to express appreciation without flattering?  Isn't it possible to speak one's "truth" without offending?

A communications thought:  Flattery is in the province of the speaker while truth in in the province of the listener.

I don't know the answer.

Jim

Ron

Administrator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

4 posted 2007-07-19 04:37 PM

"Compliance ~~always~~ begets friends, truth ~~always~~ begets hate"

Cicero also said, "Never go to excess, but let moderation be your guide." I think he, like me, would have rejected the excess implicit in your either/or hypothesis. As I noted above, Cicero left out a key word that you seem to be implying with your question. (We should also, I suspect, take Cicero's words in the context of his life. He was a politician first and foremost, and a philosopher and poet only after the fact. In that context, his words take on a slightly different hue?)

Francesco Petrarch, in a 1345 letter to the long dead Cicero, wrote, "For, if censure that is true angers us, true praise, on the other hand, gives us delight." If you ~~always~~ lie to your friend in order to maintain the friendship, he clearly can't believe any thing you say -- including the good things. If you're unwilling to risk the pain that might come from telling the truth, you have to also give up the gain that the truth can bring. What good is a friend who can't believe a word you say?

Personally, I don't think you have to ~~always~~ tell the whole truth to a friend or even to a dearly loved one. No matter how close you are to another human being, I believe there are still things that fall into the realm of "none of your damn business." Those are the areas where I will remain silent in hopes of preserving the friendship. I will not, however, ever lie to a friend. At best, I think a lie could only preserve the illusion of friendship. The reality would have died with the lie.

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