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peeved at multiple posters ...numbers game
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peeved at multiple posters ...numbers game |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada 
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I don’t post here very often but I have a growing concern. First, we all have our own style of writing so it is impossible to say what is and is not “poetry”, but that is not my problem. Has anyone informed these “newcomers” that it is rude to flood the open forum with multiple posts just for the sake of elevating their post numbers? It DRIVES more heartfelt (and I say that honestly enough) and more contemplated pieces down the page faster than one can sneeze twice. Which is about the time it takes these people to post their next work of ”art”…(and I have seen better works of “art” in my kleenex after a good sneeze)…..there are some here who post to get more numbers under their name. I think that some even wait at the keyboard, refreshing every couple of minutes, just so they can thank those replies gullible enough, or with similar agendas, individually, thus ticking off the numbers again (and every other decent poet on PIP). I say we should boycott the pack mentality that keeps these nulls on top. These posters caress each other’s egos as they send each other repeatedly to the top while some very incredible pieces of heart-felt blood, sweat and tears, take a nosedive toward page 2,3,4 and obscure anonymity, with nary a backward glance. And there are others here who post once in a blue moon who don’t get a fair chance to be seen on that first page for very long. The better it is, it seems, the faster it falls. I would like to be assured that those posting to my poetry are there because they are touched somehow by the poem and not the numbers gained in the act of posting. If this means that I have less people posting to my poetry, so be it. They are poets. I would just like a fair shake at the first page listing so at least they know I am there. I cannot be the only one who has noticed this problem. I am not just speaking for myself when I don’t think that good poetry has a fighting chance when a number of members are just in it for the glory of a title and higher numbers. I know there are those among us that number their posts in the 10,000s, but they have earned it with real poetry and heartfelt responses. It would be cruel of me to single out one or two multiple posters in open by commenting thus on their poems… so I do it here, where we all know who they are anyway. I know I will keep on posting here for the sake of the friends I have made on PIP. It would be a shame to stop now. If I can prevent a poet from plummeting prematurely, I will definitely post to their wonderfully meaningful words. Sherry Cherish the good memories past and look forward to the adventure called Tomorrow. But above all... be kind to yourself today. |
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| © Copyright 2002 Sherry Lynn Gardner - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Could you please clarify, Sherry? It's not clear whether "multiple posts" refers to originating posts (poems) or replies. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Um...I'm confused too. Sherry, sometimes I write ALOT, and sometimes not at all...and for some reason I have this psychological thing about writing poetry "straight to keys" (it must be some sorta "lights, camera, action!" thing with me) and? My numbers too, are rather high, but I've been here awhile, and tend to be rather conversational. I ENJOY the repartee and interaction...sigh. It gets kinda lonely over here. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Sometimes I like to do a little number crunching. I try to keep a ratio balance of posts to replies about [or at least] 10 to 1. For every one post of mine, I post at least 10 replies. Give or take. Having been placed into a position of some responsibility, that number can fluctuate not by poems, but by administrative duties. So my numbers are about 9 responses for every one originating post. Still not too bad. What may be discouraging to some, like yourself, is when we know that there has been very little time given to the reading and sounding out of a poem, and to really feel the words that the author has meant to impart. We can tell this by say, your posting a very lengthy poem at 11:11 a.m. and a response is made by 11:12. It smacks you in the face that it took you LONGER to post the poem than the reading and reply that was given to it. Sometimes we can say "well, the new poets are just eager...". Other times we can say that they just want to gain numbers. Why? It's not a race... I just happen  to be addicted to this place.But I can guarantee you, I, myself, READ. And readers, good readers, are the foundation of this place. They sort out the weak poetry from the strong, heartfelt poetry. In my own backward way, I'm saying, set the example. That's the best we can do. The real poets end up staying, and form good and valuable friendships among other real poets. Happy Reading! |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
Dear Serenity, I KNOW you are not in here just to see your numbers go up up up. And you are not a newcomer... and I don't see you adding numerous new threads almost simutainiously. You also answer your responders sometimes in one giant post... Two separate points that I was trying to make: 1. people posting several poems in a day tends to drive others that may post 1 a week to the bottom of the list faster and there is a "I'll post to you if you post to me and we can stay on top that way attitude" (that may not be all bad ... you do tend to make friends in here) but when a bunch start posting next to utter nonsense just to have something up there, and stick together to the exclusion of more reflective work, it makes me sad. I may type off the cuff but I will hone and straighten my lines before I make it public. 2. It may seem like a small thing but I tend to trust the moderators with alot. To become one you need to have over 500 posts to your credit (no matter the quallity, originating or other) I am suspicious of some that seem to be posting "one liners" for the sake of getting in there with a post or 10....I seemed to have caught some large attention here and I appologise if I seem out of line, but I am concerned that some better works are being overlooked because they seem to leave page 1 too quickly to be seen. Sherry |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Sherry, no apologies necessary for stating how you feel...I do tend to make some "off the cuff" replies, that may seem like fluff to some, but quite often is just an "inside" joke...and I AM a speed reader too, quite to my own detriment as well...I try to slow down sometimes...other times I just forget and ZOOM....but I do tend to go back and read. And since I understand my own reasoning as to why I do things the way I do, I try to give others the benefit of the doubt. Hugs you, I know it can be frustrating, and believe me, I've got some crap buried in the archives with minimal replies. So...I go back, and if I think it's worth it? I re work it, and post again. It's all part of the learning for me. There's always going to be some that are eager to be a "bigger part" of it all. My motto is, "keep your head down and keep on typin'!"  and pssst...I'll be looking for your posts more in the future...it's just a matter of "so many poets, so little time..." |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
if one of your big concerns i keeping a post up near the top, try posting in one of the smaller / slower forums. to the dm's & posting quickly just to get there - first, it's an assumption that such is the case. the can be many reasons for people to type a one-liner. second, remember that we're not all idiots up in moderator land.  |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
Dear Christipher, I give the moderators a lot of credit. They are there because not much gets past them.... I did check out the prerequisits for becoming a Deputy Moderator though and was suprised to find that it isn't 500 but just 300 posts whereby you can qualify to become one. Granted there is an application process.... but......some of our more eager beavers in here didn't take 2 weeks to accumulate this amount of postage.....BTW A slower, smaller forum as well as having less postings have less readership too. The main open is choice because that is where MOST people show up at in PiP. Sunshine.... You are absolutely right... it is not a race, although I have observed what I though some people might be running in as one. I will be sticking around. I have made friends here who I will miss if I didn't show up in here atleast once a week... my temp position this week gives me access and ample time to post this week. I do know of others among us that have all but given up on having their poetry read by more than a few people as it takes a long deep slide to the 2nd page and beyond (and they keep a decent post to originating post ratio. just not enought people take an interest in finding their work after) I have my own website. I get visitors everyday. I am not as concerned about myself as I am these others when I notice a good poem slides quite fast.... even after I bring it back from the recesses of the open. I do most of my reading from other than page 1 of the open. I send it to the top again if I notice that it has not enjoyed the popularity that others'have and especially if I like it. It is a pitty that not enough of our membership practices this. Sherry |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Thanks, Sherry. Why do you think  was born? He's my little smilie that I use when I go hunting in the archives for our buried treasures... |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
It's like everything else, Sherry. There's lots of cliques here. I have, more than once, been sent a multiple forward to the effect that "X has just written a beautiful poem -- please respond to it." Of course those poems are going to get more "play" on the page than someone who doesn't have nearly as wide a spectrum of readership. But, luckily, this place is full of friends, too. And some *amazing* writers. That's all I care about. Mikey |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
Dear Sunshine, I haven't hunted thru the smileys lately... Guaranteed I will use this one alot....  Love, Light and Peace, Sherry |
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Greeneyes  
since 2000-09-09
Posts 9903In Your Poetic Mind |
Sherry~ first and please dont take offense, but your statement is a little rude in nature....but in understanding I think the guidelines state that "we" can post up to five poems in forums....ANY ONE CORRECT ME If I AM WRONG....we all have to contend with being read and replied to....I dont post as much any more, because of time....but I think its GREAT that new comers have found a home here....and trust the passion family to read and respond.... quote:thats rather assuming dont you think? personally who are we to judge what others do or write about? much less worry about their refresh rate....I think most come here for PEACE of mind, and to write their heart, who is any one to "knock that down or judge"? Peace to you... with warm regard.... Lauren~ I need some distraction |
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the_loner_23 Member Ascendant
since 2002-06-08
Posts 5479Jacksonville, Florida, USA |
I am sorry. I am one of the ones that makes multiple posts. But I am gonna start writing at my boyfriend's poetry group on MSN. So you don't have to worry. Once again I am sorry. Cold hands means a warm heart |
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ThunderMage Senior Member
since 2002-06-20
Posts 812Canada |
Yea... and the thing is, it has no posting limit. It works out a bit better that way. If you want to go there, it's at http://groups.msn.com/PoetsPalace and I need members. What is life without poetry and adventure? |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Sherry, you declined the suggestion to the smaller forums because there is 'less readership...' but.... I personally disagree. I think that the smaller groups actually promote more readership... people become mroe accustomed to the writing styles of others, and, because they aren't chomping at the bit to get to the ten poems that were posted while they read the one they're on (or, as you're concerned with, to "hit the refresh" button), you generally get more thorough responses.... so it's a more intense readership, and your poem is on page one for more than a couple hours. Anyway, it can't hurt to give it a try... I understand your frustration... but some of the reasons you cited (along with some of my own) are reasons I don't post in Open. And, regarding the mutiple posting 'newbies,' no, nobody probably did inform them. A lot of young/new writers are really eager for encouragment and I'm sure that the majority aren't doing it to be rude... and if the 'numbers race' is really the issue.... I don't think it's so much the individual as the nature of the beast to begin with... but... I've gone there and done that... and I'm rambling... I did not design this game, I did not name the stakes |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
I know I have been painted as the bad guy here.... driving out would be poets... that was not my intent. and I had copied all of the relivant references to show our friend Greeneyes up there the proof that some just cannot contain their artistic urges. (gazuntite!!!) And I will admit to being rude... sometimes there is no way around it.... I said I am no judge... but that doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion... till now I have refrained from posting mine. Hush, I may just take you up on that.... and I have a few other friends who I might give this advice to also.... Sherry [This message has been edited by Magicmystery (09-11-2002 01:22 AM).] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
what is it with people lately? *I'm* the bad guy, no one else. Ya have to fight me for the title, capice? You can pull out anything you like MM. I don't think anyone is questioning what you see. My question is a) how can you judge their motivation? b) why do you care? c) why do you care? I see what you've posted above, don't get me wrong, but i think you're approaching this from the wrong perspective. pip is a large entity, one that's been around a while now (just realized i've already been here three years!). we've had people complain about everything from people posting too much, not posting enough, not being wordy enough in their replies (my bad), wanting to be too verbose, popularity contests, etc. all these fall under the same category in my op, because that's the "nature of the beast" (as mentioned above). when you have so many people in one spot, it's all but impossible to regulate them to be even-steven... uhm, and we wouldn't want to; it's this same attitude that allows for a diversity which in turn allows this place to be comfortable without being stuffy, open without being off-the-wall. of course not everyone's going to be happy all the time. there will be problems with so many people in the same room - virtual cabin fever, eh? open is definitely the most popular forum, because it is one of the places where you can feel sure that your work will receive a lot of attention. also, i think some of it has to do with the fact that people see some poets in open receiving large amounts of replies. what many don't take into consideration is that these are the people who are out there dusting things off, talking with those who are posting, etc. in line with this are those who you're complaining about... but notice that most of those don't have a whole lot of replies... something to do with quantity vs. quality? don't know, but i do know that those who are out there, responding to others' works, showing themselves to the other members, making friends, etc., are the ones who rarely make it down to the proverbial bottom of the page with only a few replies. a final note to you - you mention above about the good poetry vs. bad poetry staying up on top. i have to say (while ducking any tomatoes thrown my way) that most of the poems that get the most replies, in my not-humble-at-all opinion: they aren't anywhere near as good as some of the ones who only receive a smaller amount of replies (which is a nice way of saying i think they suck). i also have to say in defense of those i'm saying aren't that great - it's all subjective. i'm only an authority in my mind, and same goes for you. remember, some out there might not think your poetry's all that great either. hush - ramble away, i always like "listening" to ya. Christopher |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
*capice* |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
What difference does it make if one posts many poems per day or not? If someone wants to read a particular poem written by a particular person then it will be read. And if that reader wishes to comment upon what was read, they will. I have read many poems that were not on the first page or at the bottom of a page because there are particular poems written by particular authors that I seek out. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
People talk about 'good poetry' falling down to the bottom of the page, and 'bad poetry' staying on top like it's some kind of rule. The general 'way things work' around here is that the people who have a) been around longer or b) reply and 'make friends' with other people are the ones who get the most replies. This really has nothing to do with poem quality... Like, since when is it some rule that only the reticent, 'unknown' poets will write good stuff, and the 'popular' poets are going to write tripe? Likewise, I personally think that people say that 'good' poems get little in the way of replies, while 'bad' poems stay on top, either as a defense mechanism ("My poems get little replies, it must be because they're so good") or as a means of "sticking up for the little guy." Either way, I think it's stupid. This is without even exploring the idea that good vs. bad is subjective... let's say that a poem is good or bad based solely on a universal set of poem rules... I still don't see how a poet's popularity affects that one way or another? If the above is the case.... you're either a good poet or a bad poet, period. I don't see how 'popular' and 'unpopular' even become an issue? Now, I know, and I think a lot of other people know, that in Open, and some of the other forums, this is not the way things work. This is a social site as much as it is a poetry site, and as such, it is in "the nature of the beast" that cliques are formed, and friends reply to friends. So... you can fight it... or you can just remove yourself from it. That doesn't mean removing yourself from PIP, just from the areas that weigh the social aspect more heavily. Simple as that. I did not design this game, I did not name the stakes |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
"a rose by any other name still smells as sweet" this can be said for the flip side of that coin as well and still stinks no matter what you wish to call it.... but don't call it a rose when it smells like something roses grow in.... yesssss.....{{{deep sigh}}} all is arbitrary and open to interpretation... but when one starts walking into walls we call them blind, blind blind.... I agree with Christopher Hot air and for the most part things that produce it float. That just about does it for me.... I have said my piece and find myself getting blunter and ruder in the explanations.... I don't like where this is taking me and so I will stop here. If I keep on going, I will end up hating me.... and my muse will leave for good. There are other things to be of more concern right now. Take care all Sherry [This message has been edited by Magicmystery (09-11-2002 11:50 AM).] |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
Interesting to me... the world is filled with issues that effect people's lives in ways so much more seriously than whether a poem drops down a page or not, whether anyone reads it or not....whether it was worth reading or not. Famine, war, disease, cruelties most of us can not even imagine all can turn the measure of life into nothing, but we blessed ones that have food on our table, oppotunities and protection from some of the uglier things that exist can and do decide to spend out time debating on how many poems are too many, what is good and what is not... I may write trash...post it... and then write more trash and post it... BUT no one really knows why I was motivated to do so. No one really knows what sort of cathartic realease it may have offered. I would hope that rather than stand up and whine about my trash or the amount of trash I might post someone would pass me by next time they saw my name on a post. If by chance or pure coincidence I do someday write "art" and it sinks through the pages with no comment. I still know what I wrote..and if I think it worth the time for someone to read, perhaps would find a variety of places to make it available. I also would hope....I did not cry "foul!!" just because I didn't get the attention I thought I deserved... Interesting to me... but I am one of the well fed lucky ones... one of the people that doesn't have to worry if my children are going to starve, or if the next bullet I hear will tear apart the chest holding my heart, or the heart of someone I love. Yes...I am one of the indulged... and one of the spoiled.... |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Ah Ron, I'm even tempted to write lucky and oppose you in the words indulged and spoiled. I've long had a thing against comparison, at its deepest root. But then, I'm not sure that I believe in luck much. Oh and for the record, you don't write trash. MM - briefly here...be blunt, blunt is good - respectful blunt as you have been. You have not been rude in my opinion. Ignore Chris - he just waffles and loves the sound of his own voice (ok ok, so what he says sometimes actually makes good sense heh). I post, at the moment, maybe one poem every two months in open. I still get many genuine replies, from people I am close to, and not. When I reply - I reply only to poetry I like, I don't care who the author is - close friend or not. If I don't like it, I won't reply. I search through the back pages once I decide to devote an hour of my time to reading in open. It is not quite like how you say, though it might well seem like it. Hugs.  K |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Just another reason why I do new writings in the Sanctuary, and reposts in the Main Forums.  Alicat  “It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
all that has been written upon a leaf first dressed shall one day be savoured from the old wise forest for just like a river carved words must dance and flow from misty mountain highs to the blue ocean lows and soon as they be read knit them well in taut threads for once they find escape from the land of the light they may hide in a cape and remain out of sight thanks for the moment of capture... where my brain (or so I think) was captured by a few lines that popped out straight... and as for the topic... I do feel I have read about the same subject many times over here... I know how you feel... P.S. Though I am not new, I am peharps one of the guilty as sometimes I do post about 7 or 10 poems in a 5 day work week and then sort of "hibernate" for another few weeks... some times... mainly due to lack of internet time etc... I am sorry of you felt it was a numbers game etc. the intetion is never to drown the forums... I do try and post in different forums, Open, Corner, Dark... Also, I do read a lot of poetry... and respond to the ones I feel capable to respond as well... for I read quite fast and usually fall to interpretation very quickly(sometimes incorrectly...) ... blah ... blah... I feel I shouldn't post some of my stuff, since they are rambles like this one here, but I post them anyway... maybe that is called a "posting" addiction... Give me some time to think and reform... Regards, sudhir [This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (09-12-2002 10:30 AM).] |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
a great write especially for a "few lines that popped out straight" there is nothing wrong with being spontaneous.... but I could suggest that they save their work and spread their spontanaity out a bit more to fill in their dry spells (not that they seem to have many of those) I will be examiming other forums for my future posts.... Others have been too disenchanted by recent events to try anymore. Cherish the good memories of the past and look forward to the adventure called Tomorrow. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
I am peeved at multiple complaints more than multiple posts. I question anyone's assumption that they know my motivations for posting anything here. And all poetry is subjective. What is bad to me might appear good to you. And I do pick and choose sometimes who I read, since I am not here 24/7, but do have a life. I understand your complaint, but don't think there will ever be a good solution short of limiting the number of poems one can post, to say, maybe 1 or 2 a week? I prefer to buckle up my seat belt and hold on tight in the open forum. Sometimes I stay outta the fast lane, and sometimes I just put the pedal to the metal, so to speak, and go for it, whether anyone reads or not. I don't pay any attention to numbers. |
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Marshalzu
since 2001-02-15
Posts 2681Lurking |
How can you tell what is good and what is not a good poem until you have read the poem? Andrew "I still feel the pain in my heart, what once was pure is now diluted" - Biffy Cylro [This message has been edited by Marshalzu (09-12-2002 05:59 PM).] |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
LoL... .Midnightsun.... believe me, we all need some form of seatbelt in there. Andrew, that's just it.... I do read them.... it is definitely a quantity over quality thing going on... and that brings up another point, because I READ alot of other posts, and comment, I do know it when I smell something rotten.... leaves me wondering when I find someone hovering at the top.... just posted within the last 5 minutes and I take the time to read their poem.... but someone has slipped in there still faster with a one liner that I see over and over.... not only do I think they are posting this way for the numbers but I get the distinct feeling that they HAVEN'T Read the poem they are posting to ..."Powerful words here" ..... {crossing my eyes and rolling them} Whatever. {{snort}} |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
MM. Sigh. Yes, you have a point here, a point that is not unnoticed. It's an obvious conclusion to reach that one cannot read a poem in one minute (possibly less) and write 'powerful words' with any sincerity. Blindingly obvious even. Perhaps that feels unfair, perhaps that blatant display of what truly seems like insincerity makes you want to throw your mouse at the screen in disgust (hm..I wouldn't mind throwing my screen somewhere as well right now...those cookie things...). At any rate, with all of those feelings roiling away inside I just want to ask you to think about a couple of things. Maybe the member/s who do reply so instantaneously are not truly intending to be insincere. Perhaps, for whatever reasons/capabilities of their own, it is sincere for them. Perhaps they come here for comfort, for friendly interaction. Perhaps the words they see on the screen are their daily human bread. Perhaps by replying so often, they are merely reaching out. Perhaps they haven't been taught social graces, perhaps their intellects cannot internalise the gist of a poem's message. Perhaps they just selfishly want to see the number under their name grow. Perhaps a growing number makes them feel like they belong. The thing is, we don't know. We can't just assume a person is being insincere, just because we see behaviour that smacks of insincerity to us. One could always ask the offender/s. Or let it go, and accept it as behaviour that is pretty much inevitable with the amount of people who visit this place on a daily basis. Hugs, I know you're frustrated. K |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
One line replies... ( laughing) I read and comprehend very quickly thank you..my responses are often as quick... high speed data lines for a connection do make it a bit easier to cover a lot of poems in a short time period and often will read a poem, leave and then come back and comment. My comment may only be "I enjoyed" A one line reply I myself find quite appropriate... Short poems.... minimalism, Haiku, etc. are legitimate forms.... Short tempers.... are plentiful Short attention spans... are expected and taught by our constant news bite, 30 second commercial media. Short circuits... happen when one gets their wires crossed and can lead to overheating. Have you checked the insulation on your wires lately???? Short lived... aren't we all? Short memory... what it seems many of us suffer from when it comes to the good things short sheeted.... what I sometimes would like to do to people who complain a lot about trivial things. Short sighted... When we fixate on something in front of us and fail to see the larger or long term picture. There are lots of shorts... there are lots of things to complain about... unfortuanetly this post and this chain of conversation does not fit the short model |
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Janet Marie Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554 |
Ron? ... Im a moth..my wires are always overheating rofl (thank you for your wired wisdom) Some people are "givers"...some are "takers"...and the majority of the rest fit just fine somewhere in between. (even the short ones) I have a personal reply rule: Reply as you wish others would reply to you...set an example with your actions. Those who are here for the love and respect of poetry and poets know a sincere reply when they read one...they know whether or not the poem has been read. Numbers get real boring after awhile ... poetry doesnt. Peace to Poetry Land |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Just a comment... By way of response, I have to admit, the only ones that are really reading THIS thread are overall the ones that give polite, intense, long, intelligent, witty responses to begin with. The ones that also give all of the above that haven't responded yet just haven't had time to get here to do so because they are busy handling moderator/admin responsibilities...and/or are dealing with life in the real... I'm sorry you're distressed by a few who respond as they do. Perhaps, as pointed out before and above, they are doing the best they can. |
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suthern
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723Louisiana |
Just a couple of thoughts... brief ones... my thinker is on strike. *S* I find it hard to criticize anyone who responds to my work... they have given me their time and attention and I appreciate that, whether the response is long and in depth or a simple smilie. Some of my replies are fairly lengthy... others are a simple "I enjoyed this." Both types are sincere. Also, there have been times when I've been in a place and position where I could read but not reply. In such instances, I've written out the poem's name and author and my response to it on a sheet of paper... so that when I AM able to respond, a few quick searches mean a lot of responses in a very short period of time... The reading was leisurely, the responding was not. And last, there are times when I have no time... but I don't feel I owe anyone an apology if I pop in quickly to respond to a friend's work without doing a lot of reading. |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
well I have come back to discuss the speed of responses in some cases blah blah... there may be exceptions... like me I read very quick... normally I devour about 60 to 80 pages of a book in an hour and I do take in most of it too... For instance consider the book I am currently reading: "the lord of the rings" by jrr tolkien.. I am so much into the story that I just read and read and read... I covered the first 325 pages (out of about 1100) in one sitting from 9 am to 2 pm on a day when I was ill and at home (this wednesday)... that's 65 pages of small font in an hour, if my maths is right... but some books are written that way... they just dance into your heart, soul and mind... The same goes for poems... Some of the poems (I shouldn't call them that maybe) I write are written in less than 5 and they are even more than 20 lines longer... (so what I type fast, still not as fast as the thoughts flow) and some of the poems I have read (in fact quite a lot of them) are so easy to read, that they come right in with beautiful flow and simplistic thoughts (and they are meant to be such) ... these can indeed be read and replied to (if it means something to the reader) in a couple of minutes... there might always be a few who just cut past the same replies to all the poems that they encounter (to what end, I do not know!)... but it is very difficult to judge the sincerity of a response, and I think should not be even considered as a task to be done. Some one has posted a reply, it has boosted a poem from wherever it stood to the top, whereby some other reader has a chance to look at it, more thoughtfully perhaps, maybe finding an inner meaning and then maybe not even responding, but at least that passerby has spend a time reading your work and as most often happens shall come back to reply to some other poem of yours ro even write an e-mail of how your poems are taken in by him/her... so my honest point of view... read and be read, write and perchance be quoted, respond if you feel like, but don't feel desolate if you are not responded too... and as my thought now goes... today I shall read for tomorrow my sight could be weak today I shall speak for tomorrow my voice could be drowned Today I shall swim for tomorrow the tide may arise today I shall act for tomorrow it might be too late and so on and so forth go the advices of todays and tomorrow... Thanks for all this... it has stimulated my brain (I think!) ... Regards to all in this wonderful Po-e-tree land... Sudhir [This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (09-13-2002 12:31 PM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I think the thing here is that you have to accept that you can't change the nature of human interactions as a whole. You can do so with your personal interactions- like I said, you can choose where you post, or you can add a request specifically for people to explain what they did like, or didn't, or why the liked it, etc... it doesn't have to be critique to be in-depth. You could ask the person, like Severn said... there's no quicker way to understanding... and I read the introduction to Voices on the Web by Ron, in which he said that one cannot hate what one truly understands. I think there's a lot of truth in that statement. Or you could set the example to people like Janet Marie said... look at someone who does a quick reply that you don't find much in... and go give them a deep, insightful reply... they might realize how good that feels, and start reciprocating the time spent. Now... I stay out of the 'clique-y' forums for the most part, unless something really catches my eye, simply because I have a short fuse, and I'd react much the same as you do. I do think it is fair to critique a person's reply to you... so, MM, I personally don't think you're being rude. I see your point. I agree that in many cases, what you are explaining is probably true- but... if we all took the time to examine the reasons we post and reply here, I think the animosity toward the nature of the 'reply machine' would kinda fade away... or at least become more constructive than destructive. Unfortunately, we all don't have that kind of time, so it is often easier to gravitate towards areas that seem to focus on the type of interaction we like. That's why I am constantly in the Discussin/critique forums... I thrive on discussion, I love debating things (not so much when it turns out I'm wrong, heh heh, but it happens), and I really think there's a lot to learn in listening to others' opinions, and contributing ideas to a discussion... so, the best advice I could give anyone would be to simply evaluate what you are looking for, and find the forum that best suits it. I did not design this game, I did not name the stakes |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Sign up a new username. Use test0000 (where the numbers change, and I'll know I can safely delete any users that start with "test"), and then read the email you receive. Sadly, you will probably be one of the FEW who read it, because it's obvious a lot of newbies don't. But that's not all bad, either. If you come here just to post your own poetry, of course, a half-dozen from one person real close together is going to be irritating, but it rarely last very long. And if you come here to actually read good poetry, you might just feel it doesn't last nearly long enough. I would dearly love to eliminate the bad poetry and impose no limits at all on the good, but I'm not nearly smart enough yet to tell the difference. Probably just as well, too. Because the people who come here to learn tell me that even the bad poetry serves a valuable purpose. quote: Third alternative? Become the bridge between a couple of those cliques. Put another way, there are those who join cliques, those who refuse to join cliques, and those who choose to simply ignore cliques. The first limit both themselves and the forums, while the latter accept no limitations. quote: Complaints are GOOD things. Those who complain obviously care. We don't have to agree with the complaint, but we definitely have to listen to it and acknowledge it. However, if we're going to examine the motivations of those who reply, it can certainly be no less valid to examine the motivations of those who complain about those replies. True story. We've had our un-bump feature for quite some time now, whereby a Member can reply to their own originating post without bumping the thread to the top. About a week ago, while reading through Open, I noticed it was being subverted by one or two people. Some were intentionally using an alias to bump their own poetry, and a few were using even less obvious tactics. I changed the programs so that a thread couldn't be bumped, not just by the same Username, but by the same computer. Two days later, I received an email from a very irate Member, complaining that she and another Member shared the same computer and were now unable to bump each other's poems to the top. I didn't bother to reply because she ended her tirade with a threat to leave pipTalk if I didn't fix the problem immediately, and I don't respond real well to threats (that's my first understatement all month). Still, even though I largely ignored the email, it has preyed on mind for several days. People come to pipTalk for a lot of different reasons, and I've always said that every single one of those reasons is valid. There is NOTHING wrong with coming here just to get attention for your writing. If that's the only reason they stay, however, they probably won't stay long. There are tons and tons and tons of people reading poetry here, probably more than anyone realizes, but relatively few who habitually respond to what they read. The Open forum is like buying a magazine at the newsstand, and every time you open it up it has magically updated to a new issue. There's nothing wrong with wanting your poem to be in two or three consecutive issues of the magazine. That's human nature. It only becomes wrong when you are willing to sacrifice someone else's spot to do it. There are many different reasons people come to pipTalk and all of them are valid, but I'm going to be honest and admit the software is designed to reward and entice those who want to learn. If your poetry doesn't get the response you think it should, maybe it's time to assume some responsibility for that instead of looking for someone else to blame. Are you targeting a wide audience or a very narrow one? Did you say something new or simply repeat the same tired cliches? Are you being too obscure or too transparent? Did you choose a hard-to-read font or make other presentation decisions that overshadow the poem? Did you check your spelling or even read what you just typed before posting it? If you really want a lot of replies, go find the poetry that gets a lot replies and figure out what they did that you don't do. Learn! Please note that I am NOT suggesting everyone should write for a wider audience or only post poetry about unusual or even arcane themes. You don't have to use mixed case if you don't want to (thanks to e.e. cummings) and you don't even have to worry about spelling. Those are all individual decisions that each poet has to make for themselves. But they also have to realize that those ARE their individual decisions, as are ALL the other things that determines how many replies they get. I'm not saying you have to change your decisions. I'm just saying, until you accept responsibility for them, you don't even have the choice. A poem is a child of the heart, and it's normal we'd want our children to fare well. But once they leave the nest, they have to rise or fall on their own merit. The parent has done all they can for that child, and at best can only vow to do better with the next. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Well said, Ron. Thank you. |
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Toerag Member Ascendant
since 1999-07-29
Posts 5622Ala bam a |
Well my son rarely posts here, I use HIS computer....(and frankly, if he replies to one of mine it's usually one of his 'smart-donkey' replies to me and I'm glad it doesn't bump it up....(Yassee how I censored myself there Ron?)....I'm such a nice guy don't ya think?.....LOL |
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Janet Marie Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554 |
quote: This is why we call him the Wizard.... he sees all from behind that cyber curtain. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
You are, indeed, a nice guy, Toe. Using "bump it up" is so much better than the alternative. |
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Magicmystery Senior Member
since 2002-02-13
Posts 821Windsor, Ontario, Canada |
Ron, You are correct and I stand corrected. Poetry is a child of the heart and I should be the last person knocking someone who is speaking from there. There are more important things out there to focus one's energy and attention on.... that is why I haven't been in here all day. I am living away from home right now and don't have a way of checking my email from here until my husband tells me that there have been more replies.... I wished the matter closed 2 days ago even though I popped back in last night to clear up some misunderstood points and created others. Indeed we do learn from each other's poetry. I wish now that I had never started this thread.... so much controversy over someones opinion and that has been blown out of proportion too in the process of clarification. I have said my piece as well as many others. And mostly in defence and sympathy born of the frustration of someone close to me who has decided that removing herself from posting actively is preferable than the disappointment she has experience when her posts take that plummet to page 2 faster than ....... well you know.... and I will cease to try to discribe it anymore. Please close this thread Sincerely, Sherry |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Thread closed at request of poet. |
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