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Wow, Where is the Rumsfeld Topic?
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Wow, Where is the Rumsfeld Topic? |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa 
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I thought for certain we would already have at least ONE thread about the sacking of Rumsfeld. Too little, too late for the Republicans. "Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself." |
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iliana Member Patricius
since 2003-12-05
Posts 13434USA |
Perhaps you should start a new thread about the new appointee, Mr. Gates, as he does have a shadow on his record. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Well, for starters, Rumsfeld wasn't sacked, fired, dismissed, given a pink slip....he resigned, stepped down, quit. Sure, you could claim semantics, but there is quite a difference between getting sacked and stepping down. Given the exuberance among liberals and democrats, I guess what they don't realize just yet is not only is their favorite whipping boy (aside from President Bush) gone, but he's a private citizen now so there's nothing they can do to him. No inquiries, no retribution committees, nada. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. But of course this will change everything in the Middle East. All our problems are solved. Why didn’t it happen earlier? . |
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Ringo 
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
quote: Sarcasm. I recognize it. You may burn my flag... only after you wrap yourself in it first. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
I too absolutely agree had the decision to replace Rumsfeld with Gates was made prior to yesterday's elections, the GOP would undoubtedly hold control of the Senate. I'm still quite surprised the Democrats took the Senate. I knew the Democrats would take the House (I predicted 23 seats) and I predicted Tester and Webb would win by small margins, but I figured Talent would win in Missouri, given the state has a high evangelical population and historically is home to one of the best-organized GOP GOTV operations, and also thought Chaffee could benefit from the popularity of moderate Republicans such as Olympia Snowe, thus we would have a GOP-held one-seat Senate majority. A huge opportunity was blown by the GOP here I believe, and I bet there's a lot of harsh finger-pointing internally happening in the party right now, particularly on Karl Rove I imagine. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" Mother Teresa |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Uh... it seems to me that the Senate is still a 50/50 tie... Virginia is long from setled You may burn my flag... only after you wrap yourself in it first. |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"Well, for starters, Rumsfeld wasn't sacked, fired, dismissed, given a pink slip....he resigned, stepped down, quit. Sure, you could claim semantics, but there is quite a difference between getting sacked and stepping down." ~ He was sacked. Bush allowed him to "save face" by allowing him to "step down," but that is how it goes across politics, or the corporate world. "Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself." |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Heh, that's like saying you weren't fired from a job, but your boss allowed you to save face with a two-week notice prior to quitting. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
It's true, Ringo, that the Allen-Webb race has yet to officially declare a winner, given that the margin between the two candidates is a mere .3%, thus there will be a full recount and there SHOULD be one. Every exceptionally honest close election deserves a honest full recount. However, I think it's safe to say Webb all but certainly has this one. I stayed up to 2 A.M last night watching election night coverage and I recall sometime around 12:15 A.M it was announced when Webb had picked up the late lead that eight precincts remained to be counted, and six of the eight precincts were in districts generally favorable to the Democrats. Also, I heard that only twice in recent state history has Virginia had statewide vote recounts, and both resulted in vote changes of no more than a few hundred votes. The current divide between the two candidates is 7,236 votes, which unquestionably is incredibly close, but following a re-count is highly unlikely to close up a margin that wide. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" Mother Teresa |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"Heh, that's like saying you weren't fired from a job, but your boss allowed you to save face with a two-week notice prior to quitting." ~ Um, it is a common practice in that type of political relationship to be allowed to resign and save face, when in actuality, one was truly sacked. It is also handled that way at the management level in many types of business organizations. "Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself." |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
JCP is porbably right. But now, let's move forward. Away from war, away from revenge, away from all the spitting contests...please. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Well, we are certainly moving away from war. Pelosi said today that Iraq is not a war, but a "situation" to be resolved. BTW, for all claiming the Democrats have control of the Senate, may I remind you they do not necessarily? Let's not forget Liebermann. on any issues he sides with Republicans it's a split Senate. The Democrats, after tossing him to the wolves for disagreeing with them, are exercizing their best woo tactics now to bring him back into the fold. He's no fool. Right now it is great being Liebermann  |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
I'm afraid that's wishful thinking on your part Mike. Joe has said all along he intends to caucus with the democrats and I'm sure he will. After the way they treated him in the primaries, he should by all rights tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. I'm sure the republicans would be more than happy to extend him all the perks the democrats are now promising. Sadly though I expect him to remain "a lifelong democrat." |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Well then, I guess President Bush is more competent that most detractors give him credit, for he managed not only to 'sack' Secretary Rumsfeld in the morning, but had a replacement picked, primed and ready to go within a few minutes of said 'sacking'. Guess everyone can disregard the AP, Reuters, CNBC, CNN, FOX and C-SPAN for the comments that the President and Secretary Rumsfeld had been in talks about his departure for several weeks. Which would constitute a two-week notice. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
You sure about that, Ali? quote: Oh, okay, wait. That same article goes on to immediately report, "Asked Wednesday about that comment, Bush acknowledged he intentionally misled reporters because he want to avoid a change at the Pentagon during a hotly contested election." I had to laugh as I watched the news conference because, just two or three questions after the President admitted he lied earlier, someone asked, "Cheney ... takes many of the same positions as Secretary Rumsfeld did on the war. Does he still have your complete confidence?" To which Bush curtly replied, "Yes, he does." Three times. I just couldn't believe no one asked the obvious follow-up question. And we should believe you this time because? |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"... But now, let's move forward. Away from war, away from revenge, away from all the spitting contests...please." ~ Agreed. We need a strategy that gets our men and women back home asap. "Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself." |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Was Rumsfeldt good at his job? |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
History will have to answer that one. |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Hasn't it already? |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
~ No, it hasn't. "Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself." |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
History doesn't work that fast  |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
History doesn't speak, historians do. So, nobody's going to defend his job performance? Why wasn't he kicked out earlier? Limbaugh points out that Rumsfeldt is only the beginning, that the dems will not be appeased by this sacrificial lamb. I hope he's right. |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"History doesn't speak, historians do. ~ Historians speak about history. Therefore, history speaks. Semantics, that is all that is. So, nobody's going to defend his job performance? ~ Well, at this time it appears his job performance sucked. We will know more in the future when history speaks. Why wasn't he kicked out earlier? ~ That question only Bush and his top advisors could answer. Limbaugh points out that Rumsfeldt is only the beginning, that the dems will not be appeased by this sacrificial lamb. I hope he's right. ~ I hope he is wrong. It is a time for healing and for both parties to work together. We have some serious problems that need taken care of, only with a bipartisan government can we get things done. If the dems decide to go on a "witch hunt" that would only make things worse. "Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself." |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
I just wanted to add some additional insight here to why I believe both Rumsfeld's ouster and Robert Gates' induction is HUGE in regard to both the war in Iraq and potential conflicts/resolutions with Iran and other nations. First of all, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George W. Bush have all appeared and have been linked as a sort of triumvirate toward the war in Iraq, but more generally in promotion of the neoconservative "long war" foreign policy agenda, which essentially believes in America's ability to shape the world in its own image, and see the United States as a "benevolent hegemony" with the power to compel other nations to adopt liberal democracy, which Iraq was a experiment of theirs in hope of ultimately evolving into a bastion of democracy in the Middle East. The removal of Rumsfeld has broken that triumvirate, and in result has not only put the neoconservatives in disarray in the White House and the Pentagon; it has polarized them, where you have Richard Perle now openly admitting in January 2007's edition of Vanity Fair that we could have stopped Hussein from building any form of unconventional weapons "by means other than a direct military intervention." Then there's also Ken Adelman, who was quoted in 2002 for saying that liberating Iraq would be a "cakewalk" and now has said in this Vanity Fair article: * "I just presumed that what I considered to be the most competent national security team since Truman was indeed going to be competent. They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era." * But what's even more interesting about the ouster of Rumsfeld and the inviting of Robert Gates is that President Bush is basically railing against Vice President Cheney's approach to the war on terror, who is more attuned to the neoconservative ideals. Now following this election and the removal of Rumsfeld, Cheney (who heavily influenced the Bush Administration during the first term) has lost much of his political clout and is even beginning to get called a "lame duck vice president" a lot. In contrast to Rumsfeld, who alligns more with the neoconservative way of thinking on foreign policy, Robert Gates is alligned with a more pragmatic, realist approach to foreign policy that is more reminiscent of Bush #41 than Bush #43, who is a member of the Iraq Study Group co-chaired by former Secretary of State, James Baker, who Baker himself has suggested that there is an alternative between "staying the course" and "cut and run". It's important that we don't forget that many of President Bush #41's senior advisers have been surrounding President Bush #43 for the past six years, and also that Gates himself was more of a hawk during the Cold War era. But I think this whole transition is groundbreaking in that it can arguably represent both the beginning of the end toward making the transition to ending our occupation in Iraq, and the beginning of the end of the neoconservative revolution in the White House and the Pentagon at least to some extent. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" Mother Teresa |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Should criminals be held accountable? Should incompetents be fired? |
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