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Rosa Parks
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Rosa Parks |
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Jaime Fradera Senior Member
since 2000-11-25
Posts 843Where no tyranny is tolerable |
Bill Clinton sat in back. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I didn't notice. But that bothered you? |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Tangent time. Rosa Parks, by her actions and stubborness, helped break racial barriers and allowed greater freedom of choice. Blacks were no longer mandated to sit in the backs of buses. Yet something I couldn't help but notice is where the majority of Blacks sit in buses: at the very back. I realize they aren't ordered to sit back there, but that they choose to sit back there. What never ceases to confound is when those same back seaters raise the racial flag whenever they don't get their way. You'd've thought racial segregation was alive and well, and in a sense, it still is. I've been called a bigot, racist, and other less polite racial slurs from dark tinctured Americans not for anything I've said or done. Merely based on the color of my skin, not the content of my character. My, how Dr. King would be proud of his legacy. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Rosa Parks shall be forever remembered, sparking a movement of critical mass of civil rights --and not for what she did, but for what she did not do. She didn't relinquish her seat on the bus. Passive resistance--a powerful force: "Passive resistance is an all-sided sword; it can be used anyhow; it blesses him who uses it and him against whom it is used." --Ghandi *peace* and special hugs for my sistah, Kacy  |
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bslicker 
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
It is not the point of where she sat in the bus, back or the front. The point made by Rosa was she wasn't giving her seat up to stand, because of the color of her skin. She was sitting in a seat and a white person wanted her to stand so that they could sit. And then she was arrested and fined because she wouldn't give up the seat. Bernie  A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
I'm not sure why they've called you those things Alicat. But I'm fairly certain your not helping your case with the sweeping generalization you've made, especially: "My, how Dr. King would be proud of his legacy" As if the whole of his legacy rests in the hands of those individuals. It totally ignores and demeans those who have/are still striving to acheive that dream. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
I totally respect Mrs. Parks. What she did and did not do took bravery, courage and conviction. Likewise for the hundreds of thousands who also strove peacably for racial equality. As for my remark on Dr. King's legacy, that rests in the hands of every American, irrespective of what they call themselves. I will tell you why I was called those slurs. I'm a white male. That was the only reason I could think of, since those who called me a racist, bigot, cracker, white meat and other colorful names don't know me, and really didn't care to know me. All they focused on was the melanomic tincture of my skin. And every time, it was from so-called 'African Americans'. I'll admit I'm rather simple. You're either an American or you're not. Not African- Mexican- Asian-...just American. If I'm totally off base, then I guess I should start referring to myself as a Scottish-Texan-American. *chuckle* |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
*chuckling* If all it takes is a sweeping generalization to bring you back Raph, I think I can manage a crew to point 'em all out to ya! gleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee It is good to see your name here. bicker on, my bro's. I love it.  |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
"I will tell you why I was called those slurs. I'm a white male. That was the only reason I could think of, since those who called me a racist, bigot, cracker, white meat and other colorful names don't know me, and really didn't care to know me." oh i don't doubt it, i've lived in predominantly black communites for much of my life so i've learned about reverse racism first hand. but your initial statement was a blanket statement, their are dangerous, and there are way too many coming from both sides of the racial coin. That's all i'm saying. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
grins K, not back persay, just couldn't bite my tongue hard enough this time |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
 And the reverse racism thing? nodding glum--but then, I wondered, just like I can't judge the proverbial book by its cover, how were my black co-workers to know I was on the coalition to stop racism? (I looked like every other "whitie" to them.) It took time, but I did eventually win their trust. That broke my heart too. Funny, while I was on the road from the storms, and I was in that small town of Crowley, I had a scarlett letter R for Refugee written all over me. (Everybody knows everybody there.) While most people were kind and gracious, there were those that looked at us with suspicion--the local taverns even closed earlier 'cause the bad ass N'awlins natives were in town.  I can't tell you how many times we were followed by the local police, too.It did occurr to me that had my skin been darker, I would prolly have been run out of town. Now I'm not saying there aren't people of color in Crowley--but they literally lived on the other side of the tracks! I'm so naive sometimes, that I put myself in danger. *shaking my head* Hugs you. |
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bslicker
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
Gosh would have think they would have left the bars open longer!!!!! I would have heck maybe even all night..LOL Gosh might even had to have a backyard/front yard party.. You mean they didn't have any drive up dac. shops in that town serenity? But now for the racial thingy, I was born and lived in Detroit for a while, any questions? Bernie A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. |
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Tiersdin Member Elite
since 2000-11-17
Posts 2364east coast |
Ok, I was going to remain silent until I read the latest posts. I so loathe racism and honestly, racism is UGLY no matter WHO throws the dung. I am black, african american, colored, negroe (which still means black!), and whatever other identity crisis and need to label name one might come up with. In my humble opinion, I am the TRUE color of brown. Just like the crayola crayon and wouldn't change it for anything in the world. I am confident and happy to be me, no particular race need to accomplish that. I told another pip member in email that while I was appalled at the comments made, I refused to comment at first because likely it would mean that I would have to go on trial for my entire race in some pathetic way. Thoughts like many expressed here are the ones that help keep the flames of racism alive and well. Or perhaps "prejudice" is the correct term. Yes, I believe it is. I'm sure that if there are any others of "color" here, I can understand why they would hesitate to speak up. so sad... ~Robin |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
quick note to Bernie-- the daiquiri shop is a story in itself. There is one. It's a window, and a single blender. They mix 'em on the spot. And Bern? As you know, I'm from New Orleans-- I believe all my racial protestations/questions have been answered. Not just on worldwide television, but in a whole buncha "clean-up" work that the world will never see. But back to the issue folks... ta!  |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And Robin if my jargon offended you, I'm afraid I am at times clumsy with the language, but I tend to use what I have at my disposal. If any of my comments upset you, then I have to believe that I either expressed myself poorly or you misunderstood. I've discussed the racism, and the media's hand in perpetuating it by their portrayal regarding Katrina at some length here at Pip, so if you'd like to discuss that it is another thread. As to what I tend to call people, Robin, I generally call them by their names. If the term "people of color" is offensive, I didn't know it. But then? I'm a dumb coon ass, that is too stupid to live above sea level and doesn't even deserve help to have her home rebuilt. There's offense to be found everywhere, and like you, I find it distasteful and offensive to the memory of Rosa Parks that this thread has ventured here. Seems what she started remains unfinished, yes? |
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Marge Tindal
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384Florida's Foreverly Shores |
Tiersdin~ My SISTER ... (I believe I once 'adopted' you as my sister in these forums)  ... that bond still remains as true as the day I said it~Yes, I agree with you ... racism and bigotry are UGLY ... as ugly as the ignorant people who hold onto those beliefs no matter WHAT COLOR OF SKIN they have~ I can tell you that I still am PROUD to call you my sister of an honest heart~ I live in the deep south ... and I stand up and say my piece when those ignoramuses start to spout off~ I do not and will not allow it in my presence without letting the perpetrators know that I find them totally repulsive and ignorant~ I've been called an '*insert your own letter of the alphabet*'lover ... and that's fine with me ... I'd rather be called that than to be called *IGNORANT*~ Like you ... I didn't find it pleasant to have to come in on this thread ... but I know that only by stating my own views will others know exactly how I feel about prejudical people ... if I can say it to someone's face ... I can sure say it to a monitor screen~ May we all strive to embrace the legacy that Dr. Martin Luther King worked so diligently to set before ALL of the people~ God bless ... Robin ... love you sister, yep, I do~ *Huglets*  ~*Marge*~ ~*No matter what I search for ... |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Um...perhaps it might help matters, if Jaime might come back and clarify his intent, which is what I had hoped for by my initial reply. Otherwise, chaos rules, and I for one, have seen firsthand that nobody benefits from that. Jaime? |
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bslicker
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
Yea I know Karen, if you remember H and I lived in LaPlace for 6 yrs. I might be coming that way sometime in January... Hey Robin i wasn't be racial but was trying to tell the real reason why Mrs Parks didn't get off the seat, it didn't matter if it was in the back, the front, nor the middle. But she didn't get up because it was about which race thought their race was better than another race. But it does make me said that it exsist at all. But it does in both and all directions. And it is a shame that the world still has to live that way. And not only with the race of someone, but also with the religion someone lives. I have lived in Michigan, Louisana, Florida, Tennessee, and now here in Indiana for a while longer. And it sure is amazing the different views the communities have out in the open, than what is practice. I have seen people that put on a good show, and then boom, as soon as the situation has removed itself, the truth comes out right there and then. The typical 2 faced person that is. also Robin By the way hope you read my tribute to Mrs. Parks. /pip/Forum93/HTML/002799.html A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Tier? I am going to email you a very long email. Suffice to say here...I'm very glad to call you Friend. Your unveiling of self makes it even more special in my eyes, m'dear. And when I send you the email, and I will...let me know if it is worthy to post here. OK? Welcome Home! |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I don't really get it. Why is it considered that a black member is "unveiling" herself by stating her ethnicity? If I say "I'm white" nobody is going to say "Oh, honey, you unveiled yourself!" Not meant to be offensive to you in particular, Sunshine, but it is a reflection of American society in general. The exception always has to be qualified when it is not obvious (ie, what someone looks like when not in face to face conversation over the internet). We white people tend to assume that others we talk to are also white. We could just chalk this up to one person gravitating to or assuming likeness in another, but I don't think that's the case. I work in healthcare. I also worked in food service. These are two (in my opinion) highly racially integrated industries, and in both I work with/have worked with an amazing variety of ethnicites and backgrounds. I went from the little white girl who never talked to a black or mexican American in my life, let alone had intimate contact with any great number of immigrants, to just another face in the crowd. With greater exposure, one comes to realize that the "people are people" stereotype/saying is true... just because someone of another ethnicity may look physically different, in addition to embracing different mannerisms, clothing styles, and speech patterns/colloquialisms (as well as those negative stereotypes that have become reclaimed by certain ethnic groups as a certain identity, ie the use of "nigga" by black people, as well as the back of the bus thing [which, Alicat, I consider more a youthful behavior than anything else]) doesn't mean we are, at worst, unable to communicate, or, at best, essentially different in any way, shape, or form. But back to the qualifying of exceptions- as a white person who works with many black people (among other groups) I notice a tendency that when a black person is describing someone to me, they will identify them as "a black guy/girl." This would be understandable if they assumed that as a white chick, I would automatically assume the person they were talking about is white until otherwise told. But I notice that they do the same thing when conversng with other black people- they aren't assuming any similarity of race, because they have learned that they have to identify the excpetionality even amongsts themselves. I don't want to polarize this with all the "us and them" language, so I'll use another example. Healthcare people all know this little inside joke (I guess it's a joke) but it's an excellent example of my point: A father rushes his injured son to the emergency room. Upon the boy being seen by the doctor, the doctor says "I can't treat this patient." Why? The answer, of course, is that the doctor is the boy's mother. Not so obvious to me when my mother first told me this at a young age. There is often the need to identify "a woman doctor" or, to be fair to the guys, "a male nurse." Once again, the exception has to be identified before the listener considers the possibility- otherwise, we tend to jump to the conclusion that the person being spoken about is part of the status quo. I think saying things like "Why do black poeple sit in back of the bus" is a sort of crass observational humor. Why? Yes, sure, it's ironic, but where does asking the question get us? Nowhere, unless we expand it into why does a sort of voluntary segregation still exist in American culture? Here's my question: who the hell cares where they sit? There are more pressing questions at hand, like why, when we fought a Revolutionary War as a country to get the right to run our own democratic society, doesn't every eligible American citizen vote? Oh, just for the record, I've been called racial slurs as well, and sexist ones too. I doubt there's a person alive who hasn't been. It sucks. And racism is racism- there is no such thing as "reverse" racism. My experience has simply been that when you open yourself to people in general, these experiences can be minimized and mutual conversation can be engaged in. Phew... so much for a quick read here... I guess I'm back to that paper I'm supposed to be writing. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
Beautifully said hush. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
" We white people tend to assume that others we talk to are also white." Um, I didn't. If you scroll up, I was the one who didn't even notice where Bill Clinton sat, and wondered why it mattered. I'm still wondering, too. *shaking my head* All these assumptions and hurt feelings--and to make what point? I'm still waiting. If there's a list for a brain transplant, I'd wait for that too. But hush seems to be using hers. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
" We white people tend to assume that others we talk to are also white." But alot of people do. I think alot of people's initial reaction to tier's statement was 'She's black?!' Admittedly, when she first told me I was surprised, and then immediately felt like a tool for it. Because that's how engrained the division has become and as hush mentions, it's become subconscious habit to declare a person's colour when telling a story. I don't think this thread has become hostile or hurtful. I think it's open dialogue that, hopefully, makes people see even the smallest divisions and how ridiculous they really are. Exactly what Rosa Parks was attempting to do. Topple the subconscious barriers and the rest should follow. And be mindful of generalizations, which is why i commented in the first place. |
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Tiersdin Member Elite
since 2000-11-17
Posts 2364east coast |
Thanks to all who responded to my "two cents". Margie, you are a sweetie and I suspect, shall always be. Sunshine, thank you too for your kind words. I don't think of my words as a kind of unvieling since I have been secure within this coacoa skin for quite a while. Rather, it's just a note to kinda ask, could you be a bit more tactful in what you say while you express your right to say it. Sure, my feelings got hurt. Isn't the first time and I'm quite sure it won't be the last. I like to think of myself as fairly strong and not easily crumbled by such talk. But I feel compelled to say that it's pretty irritating to be referred to as "them" or "they". NO ONE wants to be lumped into a group like a herd of cattle. There are other blacks that I don't wish to be identified with, not to mention other person's of other cultures. It's no different from someone trying to identify you with a serial killer or bomber. Nope, don't think anyone would like it. Serenity, I'd like you to know that I wasn't offended by your refering to blacks as people of color. After all, we are. We have so many colors, including what could be viewed as "white". I think that as unpleasant as most blacks would find it, "colored" might be a more accurate term because of that. The discussion of race is indeed a volatile subject (as is politics) no matter how delicately it might be approached. What I find offensive may be viewed as nonsense to another of a different race and vice versa. This is where tact comes into play. While we have the right to our own opinions, there's no harm in taking another's feelings into consideration, is there? I find the abilty to do so is a strength rather than a weakness. ~Robin |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Hush, you are right...I could have said what I did in a way that would not have upset anyone. Personally...I was thrilled to learn of Robin's heritage. My letter to her explained why. Her letter back...deepened a bond that has been growing between us since she first started at Passions. But...you were right. Thank you for pointing that out to me. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Ok, it seems that many missed something crucial when I was mentioning 'them' and 'they'. Their own choice of where they sat, darkly humorous to me when they (the current back seaters) used to be forced to sit back there (in the back seats). And that latest observation was taken on the Greyhound bus from Yuma, Arizona to San Antonio, Texas about a little over a month ago, and many the times I've mused on why people sit where they sit on buses. And more often than not, again from my own observational evidence, they (chosen back seaters) are the first to cry foul if their (chosen back seaters) words or actions are called into question and the most likely to use racial slurs against those disagreeing with them (chosen back seaters). Nitpick if you want, but I'd appreciate words not being torn out of context then used to imply blanket generalizations, as I strive very hard to avoid those. Now I'm reminded of a young black gentleman who came into the book store where I was working after the first Million Man March, asking for any books on or by Louis Farakan. When I responded that there weren't any yet, he became very hostile and called me a rascist bigot. I kept my cool and calmly told him how my own people were ruthlessly oppressed for centuries by the British, leaving Scotland in the mid-1880s, with my Grandpa Henry being born on the boat during transit and that I did not appreciate his racial slur based merely on the tincture of my skin. Then I proceeded to show him where other books were about Dr. King, Malcolm X, G.W. Carver and other notables. He apologized and later helped some friends of mine find an apartment, only because he knew them as my friends. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Ali? Your last paragraph is akin to what I wrote to Tier last night. God bless your heart. |
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bslicker
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
We all keep talking about our own people. What is our own people? I thought it was a world of people, which is what we have a problem with. Just think of of what the alien's are saying right now ( and yes i mean the one's in the UFO's)... They are problably saying, look at all those fools, they are alien's within their own world and don't even notice us. The real alien's. oooopppps,,, just a couple more cents... Bernie A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. Bernie Slicker |
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bslicker
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
Forgot welcome back Deer, and glad to see your fine and ready to get back in action !!! We all missed you Bernie A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Bslicker, in case you missed the stated reference, my people are Scottish. The Adamson line can be found close to Perth and Dundee by the River Tay, can be traced back to around 900 AD and is associated with Clan Gordon and Clan Mackintosh through Clan Chattan. 'My people' refers to my direct ancestors, people with whom I am directly related. My people. Seems simple enough to this simple soul. |
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Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
I assumed the thread was in response to President Clinton's comments at the service. That he vividly recalls the day Ms. Parks refused to give up her seat on the bus. As a young nine year old in Arkansas, he the next day began sitting in the back of the bus to show his solidarity to the civil rights movement. The event profoundly effected his life, much as the phantom church burnings occuring during his childhood across the State of Arkansas. I am unaware of the intent of the original comment of the thread, but my reaction was not towards the life of the Ms. Parks, but towards a seven hour service used for the political purposes of some of those attending rather than honoring the life of Ms. Parks. President and Senator Clinton, Senator Kerry, Jesse Jackson, and a host of others speaking unfortunately brought thoughts of the funeral of Walter Mondale. My cynical thoughts to the original comment had little to do with the civil rights movement, nor Rosa Parks, but in the fashion how we remember and honor our dead. That is not to say the majority of those attending did not do so to honor and celebrate the memory of a courageous woman, but a far too significant portion of the service was spent in political posturing. |
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bslicker
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
I am Happy for you Ali So what does that mean, your people? Get what I am saying. I think you miss what I am saying My people go back to Adam and Eve any agruements. Understand now Bernie A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. Bernie Slicker |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Now Bernie, if you can actually trace your family tree that far back then that is some feat.  (Just kidding, of course) |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
quote: I didn't tear your words out of context, the statement: quote: is a careless generalization, as written it equates the legacy of King with the judgemental 'dark tinctured' individuals you've encountered. You explained yourself afterwards and that's fine, my only point was people should be careful with comments like that and little subconscious habits, like the need to state a person's skin colour as if it has anything to do with the stories we tell. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Well, at least we understand each other a bit better, since I really didn't know what you were referring to until you blocked it in quotes. To put it another way, I've never had any racial issues at all from any other melanomic pigmentation than from those on the darker scale of brown. Not from Hispanics, Asians, Pan-Europeans, Middle Easterners, but a lot more than none from those of African or Carribean ethnicity. To be blunt, the only times I've been called racial epithets have been from the mouths of African-Americans, and never for anything I said or did. It was always based on the color of my skin. Now, normally I just shrug it off and go about my own business. However, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And yeah, I did tie it all into Dr. King. Rosa Parks was an instrumental player in the Civil Rights Movement, but it was headed by Dr. King who in his famous speech said 'judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character'. So to those few, who just happen to be African-American, who toss slurs my way based on my skin color, I can still desire the same they desire, to be judged on the content of my character, and not by the color of my skin. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Thank you, Bernie  |
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Jaime Fradera Senior Member
since 2000-11-25
Posts 843Where no tyranny is tolerable |
The reference to Bill Clinton parodys the sex President's penchant for injecting himself into historical events in which he may not have particapitated and that, as reputedly either the first black white boy or the first white black boy, he sat with own people, whoever they were, because he was going to be the President some day. It's a form of convoluted historical revisionism in which he seems fond of engaging to this day. |
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