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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

0 posted 2004-12-20 08:46 PM

" Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law?
Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty? "
Senator Ted Kennedy, 1973

http://www.ytedk.com/intro.htm

Chappaquiddick has always been bothersome. I think it played an important
role in denying Kennedy his presidential opportunity. My question is
why has the man continued to be elected to the Senate?

Nan

Administrator

Member Seraphic

since 1999-05-20

Posts 21191
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA

1 posted 2004-12-20 10:27 PM

"Don't Blame Me - I'm From Massachusetts!"

We have here a VERY Democratic state which never has and likely won't ever vote Republican. Temper that with the fact that this is THE "Kennedy" state (Cape Cod in particular)... Et Voila!... Ted Kennedy continues as Senior Senator.

You didn't ask it to make sense - You merely asked "Why?"!!...

Alicat
Member Elite

since 1999-05-23

Posts 4094
Coastal Texas

2 posted 2004-12-20 10:31 PM

Name fame (he's known), family connections (they're known), and loads of money. I do think he does care a lot about education and providing the unpriviledged opportunities to improve themselves, but can also afford to be as far left as he cares to be, due to the three mentioned reasons. Obviously, the only reason he's been in the Senate this long is that people keep voting him into the Senate. Part of that probably has to do with the legacy and memories of John and Robert among the voting blocks.

Personally, I don't think the tragedy of Chappaquiddick kept Sen. Kennedy from becoming President. I do feel that he was persuaded not to go there after the deaths of two of his brothers, one who was President and one who was running for President. Just my uneducated views, of course.

Nan

Administrator

Member Seraphic

since 1999-05-20

Posts 21191
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA

3 posted 2004-12-21 08:09 AM

Indeed - Ted promised Rose that he'd never run for the presidency. He's kept that promise to his mother, and I expect he'll never rescind upon it...

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

4 posted 2004-12-21 11:13 AM

Hmmm, I guess a DUI bust is okay?

Tim
Senior Member

since 1999-06-08

Posts 1794

5 posted 2004-12-21 09:45 PM

is your hatred of Bush so great you would compare a guilty plea to a misdemeanor d.u.i. to the circumstances surrounding the death at the Chappaquiddick? How sad.

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

6 posted 2004-12-21 11:23 PM

Where did I compare?

I don't live in Massachusettes, I don't know why he continues to be elected, I do think Chappaquiddik hurt his chances for the presidency, but because one man did something worse, why does that justify the actions of the other?

Why put this up now? Hmmm, maybe because the Kofi distraction didn't stick. And if we're going to bring up dubious past actions, why not bring up the president's?

Isn't it just a little more relevant?

Your question insinuates that I'm blinded by emotion. But what has blinded you to the last four years?

Does is matter or doesn't it?

wranx
Member Elite

since 2002-06-07

Posts 3689
Moved from a shack to a barn

7 posted 2004-12-24 01:28 AM

I can only say that one of my favorite bumper stickers read...

Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people

than my handgun

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

8 posted 2004-12-24 01:39 AM

Yet, doesn’t it say something depressing about
human nature, at least in Massachusetts, (it’s
not they can’t or don’t know).

Tim
Senior Member

since 1999-06-08

Posts 1794

9 posted 2004-12-24 02:06 PM

What mention of Bush is there in the original post?

How does Kofi suddenly enter into the discussion?

How come you objected to Balladeer bringing up Clinton's shortcomings when Bush was the topic?

The blinded question is really out there, and I have no idea of your point there.  I didn't read the thread as having anything to do with President Bush.

Does what matter?  Does it matter that a married U.S. Senator and five married men partied at a beach house with six young single women.  That the Senator left the party with one of the young women in the middle of the night and drove towards the beach after drinking and drove off a bridge and then left the female trapped in the vehicle underwater for over nine hours without reporting the incident and telling two lawyers not to report the accident.  That the Senator did not attempt to obtain assistance in saving the woman when it was readily available? That no autopsy was performed. That the Senator asked individuals to indicate the deceased was driving.  That the whole incident smells to high heavens as far as a legal coverup and a young woman died.

Does it matter?  Maybe not. Apparently not to Massachusetts voters.

Does it matter the President had a D.U.I. conviction when he was thirty?   Yes, it just isn't very relevant to this thread as far as I can tell.

Bottom line, how truly sad.

On the topic of the thread, I suspect Kennedy tested the waters over the years as far as running for President which would be indicated by his numerous attempts to appear to embrace more centrist positions.

Chappaquiddick was and is an albatros that prevented and prevents a serious run at the presidency.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

10 posted 2005-01-16 11:54 AM

“HARTFORD, Conn. — A former police officer who sat on the jury that convicted Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel of murder now says he has doubts about whether Skakel is guilty and is working for Skakel's defense team. . .

Skakel cousin Robert Kennedy Junior says it takes courage to do what Wood is doing. He says Skakel's conviction is built on a fantasy that the well-connected family manipulated the law.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144512,00.html

Anyone know the convicting evidence of this case?

Alicat
Member Elite

since 1999-05-23

Posts 4094
Coastal Texas

11 posted 2005-01-16 03:05 PM

Aside from the shattered golf club which was paired with other clubs in the Skakel's garage, the legal fighting against search orders, Michael and his brother's own meandering and changing testimonies, and Michael's own damning stories which, by pure coincidence, mirrored the murderer's own steps and locations, not much evidence at all. What the defense team is trying to do is to overturn the conviction based on their accusations that the prosecution took too long to get their case together. And that worries me, since it could set a precedence on statutes of limitations and murder. Currently, there is no statute of limitation on murder, but if his defense overturns his conviction on their accusation, there might well be a limitation in the near future.

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

12 posted 2005-01-16 03:18 PM

It might not ave taken so long had he not skipped the country for several years.

Alicat
Member Elite

since 1999-05-23

Posts 4094
Coastal Texas

13 posted 2005-01-16 03:44 PM

Guess he forgot there's no time limit on murder cases.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

14 posted 2005-01-16 04:58 PM

"The rich are not like you and me."

F. Scott Fitzgerald

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

15 posted 2005-01-16 11:58 PM

What does Skakel have to do with Chap.? I'm very confused by the last few responses. Are you arguing that Wood was bribed or in some sort of trance to want to work for acquital?

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/tedkennedychappaquiddick.htm

quote:
Little over one mile away, the car that I was driving on the unlit road went of a narrow bridge which had no guard rails and was built on a left angle to the road. The car overturned in a deep pond and immediately filled with water. I remember thinking as the cold water rushed in around my head that I was for certain drowning. Then water entered my lungs and I actual felt the sensation of drowning. But somehow I struggled to the surface alive.

I made immediate and repeated efforts to save Mary Jo be diving into strong and murky current, but succeeded only in increasing my state of utter exhaustion and alarm. My conduct and conversations during the next several hours, to the extent that I can remember them, make no sense to me at all.

Although my doctors informed me that I suffered a cerebral concussion, as well as shock, I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either in the physical, emotional trauma brought on by the accident, or on anyone else. I regard as indefensible the fact that I did not report the accident to the policy immediately.

Instead of looking directly for a telephone after lying exhausted in the grass for an undetermined time, I walked back to the cottage where the party was being held and requested the help of two friends, my cousin, Joseph Gargan and Phil Markham, and directed them to return immediately to the scene with me -- this was sometime after midnight -- in order to undertake a new effort to dive down and locate Miss Kopechne. Their strenuous efforts, undertaken at some risk to their own lives also proved futile.

---

quote:
Today, as I mentioned, I felt morally obligated to plead guilty to the charge of leaving the scene of an accident. No words on my part can possibly express the terrible pain and suffering I feel over this tragic incident. This last week has been an agonizing one for me and for the members of my family, and the grief we feel over the loss of a wonderful friend will remain with us the rest of our lives.

These events, the publicity, innuendo, and whispers which have surrounded them and my admission of guilt this morning raises the question in my mind of whether my standing among the people of my state has been so impaired that I should resign my seat in the United States Senate. If at any time the citizens of Massachusetts should lack confidence in their Senator's character or his ability, with or without justification, he could not in my opinion adequately perform his duty and should not continue in office.

This is not defending Kennedy, I just thought his own words needed to be heard. Let's see, he admits guilt and offers to resign.

Oh wait, I'm not supposed to compare anymore.

Tim
Senior Member

since 1999-06-08

Posts 1794

16 posted 2005-01-17 08:23 AM

I am not sure how the Skakel case fits in either, but as far as the Senator's statement, I would respond as follows.

The obvious response is that he did not resign.  He takes no responsibility for driving after a night of drinking and being responsible for the death of a young woman.

It is somewhat like the young boy calling his father at work and saying Dad, I was playing football and do you know the picture window?  Well, I broke the tiny little window beside it.  Except of course, we are not talking about windows, but the death of a young woman.

Because of the secrecy of the proceedings and the lack of autopsy, we will never know the full story.  We do know that the Senator had been drinking at the party with six married men and six single women spending the night in the beach house.  As I recall, the statement was Kennedy's wife did not attend because she was pregnant.

In any event, ignoring the morality issues, Kennedy after driving off the bridge went back to the cottage walking past several residences where he could have obtained assistance, all being much nearer the scene.

He specifically called out the two attorneys present and told them not to tell the others present what had occured.  The others were not told what happened.  Kennedy informed the two lawyers not to notify police and attempted to get the attorneys to indicate the victim was driving.

After returning to the scene, Kennedy had the lawyers drive him to the ferry crossing where he swam the channel, went into a hotel, showered, went to the lobby and mingled a bit, and made 17 telephone calls before he finally notified authorities the next day.

He never once sought medical treatment during this period before notifying law enforcment nor did anyone observe signs of physical injury.

I do think I recall from seeing the statement on television that Kennedy was wearing a neck brace about a week later.

Not even getting into the legal proceedings, which I feel fairly comfortable could not be conducted in such a manner today, the Senator's statement does little to vindicate him, in fact, it only makes the situation to appear worse unless you are willing to strain your credulity level.

Alicat
Member Elite

since 1999-05-23

Posts 4094
Coastal Texas

17 posted 2005-01-17 11:26 AM

Anyone else would have been charged with negiligent homicide, irregardless that it happenened about 40 years ago.

Rattle that closet, Senator Kennedy, and see which bones dance best.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

18 posted 2005-01-17 07:56 PM

Possible:

Chappaquiddick=
one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty,
Skakel murder =
one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty,
both=
well-connected family manipulating law

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

19 posted 2005-01-17 08:03 PM

Uh guys, I'm still not allowed to compare?

Are you kidding?

If the principle is equal rights under the law, then the comparison (Bush v. Kennedy families) applies.

No if's, no and's, no but's.

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

20 posted 2005-01-18 01:14 AM

I guess you guys will have to let Brad compare now. How about a young fellow's DUI arrest where nobody got hurt compared to a U.S. Senator committing negligent homicide? Sounds like a fair comparison to me.

James_A_Fraser
Senior Member

since 2003-09-03

Posts 972
Out Making Anticlines

21 posted 2005-01-18 02:04 AM

Of course you're allowed to compare. But if you draw comparisons that are so clearly invalid that they make it seem as if you're either hate-driven or simply unable to focus on a topic in a clear way, people will assume that of you.

Those are obviously wrong assumptions to make about you, but they'll make 'em anyway.

As to the DUI, back when I cared about such things I saw the yellow sheet on a conviction for the very same offense, and the name of the drunk driver was Albert Arnold Gore, Jr. That's not relevant to the Kennedy discussion either.

~~J

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

22 posted 2005-01-18 03:20 AM

Uh, wasn't that Al's son, Al Gore III?

James_A_Fraser
Senior Member

since 2003-09-03

Posts 972
Out Making Anticlines

23 posted 2005-01-18 09:41 AM

Little Al got one during his dad's presidential campaign season I think, but this one was old -- from the early 80's as I recall. I thought it was interesting that something like that would be out there and not used to fend off the flack about W's indescretion, but it didn't affect my vote and I doubt that it would many other folks' either.

The Mary Jo incident on the other hand, seems to have doomed a dynasty.

~~J

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