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| Critical Analysis #2 |
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Suggestion |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I have been thinking about the conflict of people expecting harsher and ruthless critique and others expecting/wishing for and sometimes very much needing more mild critique. Perhaps it would be useful to have another "flag" or else something in the critique flag now to somehow indicate the level of critique one wishes. Maybe a form like the one below  Of course I may just be losing my mind trying to think of something that will please everyone [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-26-2003 03:06 PM).] |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Ess, I'm afraid that trying to please everyone will cause you to lose your mind. Actually though, anyone posting in CA should be prepared for a hard and often negative critique. I don't believe there is any reason why they should be subjected to ruthless though. As you and several others have maintained all along, honesty and brutality are not the same thing. Thanks for you efforts, Pete |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I didn't mean "ruthless" in a sense that the critiquewright ought to be able say anything he wishes. But that he may be as critical as he may within reason and the general rules of the forum and site. No one should ever be able to make it something personal or show scorn in critic-craft. [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-26-2003 02:24 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Are we inside a pumpkin? |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Hey Ess... Have you ever been to the notorious pffa site? You may have seen its name bandied about in here...it has entire forums devoted to 'degrees' of critique...harsh, mild, ruthless etc. Now - about one of the only good things that site has going for it is a disclaimer. To read in each forum for awhile before a new member posts so they can 'get' the feel for it. There's one inherent problem with your suggestion - how is a person going to 'know' what a harsh/ruthless/mild critique is? Pffa has forums that set their own precedents for the level - a member pretty knows where they stand. In here, it's a mixed bag. If one person checked 'ruthless' and received someone's version of a ruthless critique - well, it might be a little too much if you see what I mean. Or not. Subjectivity is a difficult thing sometimes lol. I think that our critique messages can serve that purpose. A lot of people tell you how they want their poems critiqued - rip it apart, don't rewrite it, be gentle as I'm new etc. It's something, if still subject to the same laws of subjectivity. In here, I still pay attention to those and try to give the poster what they've asked for. For those who don't have a message - they get what they're given... Your suggestion is a good one though, just not 'workable' in here perhaps right now. Like Pete - I really appreciate your efforts..  Kps - it's a pumpkin nightmare... [This message has been edited by Severn (10-26-2003 05:07 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Hi Severn I see what you're saying. Yes, I have been to Poetry free-for-all I am not a member though. I think the critical forums feel too much like factories. They don't tend poetry, they force it, with too many mechanics and turn it into a machine. But that is their site. I'd rather be at Passions, where it is more like a garden and a society of people who understand the importance of tenderness in the art. Essorant [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-27-2003 02:23 AM).] |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
omgg a pffa link HERE in THIS site!!!  |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Ess, I knew you were not proposing ruthless criticism.  |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Rob, you deserve this:  K |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Is Rob getting into trouble over there too?? [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-27-2003 05:42 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
. [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-27-2003 06:20 PM).] |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
Ess Je dans l'ennui. Mais non, je suis toujours aussi bon que le d'or ... lol K Obtenez le perdu, heh |
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Greeneyes  
since 2000-09-09
Posts 9903In Your Poetic Mind |
If your bored with it, why not let it go? Just a thought.... Will the wind ever remember the names |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Why do we have three threads on the nature of a critique? We had one guy who confused honesty with negativity, but negativity leads in exactly the same direction as too much fluff, it lets the reader skim instead of read. It may be an honest opinion (but so is most of the fluff), but it's not an honest reading. If you want to talk about a critique, great talk about a critique, but enough with the tone already. Hypersensitivity and negativity are simply ways of escaping into the vacuum of irrefutability. |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
Brad ... no no no, you missed the point entirely. Look at this positively. We have three threads entirely devoted to an expose of the glories of the male ego And it's nice to hear from you too |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ahhhh, now I understand. Nothing wrong with that. In Korea, by the way, they use the term egoism as opposed to egotism. I've never understood the difference -- but there are many things I don't understand -- I live with it. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Two slightly different connotations. From M-W.com Main Entry: ego·ism Function: noun Date: 1785 1 a : a doctrine that individual self-interest is the actual motive of all conscious action b : a doctrine that individual self-interest is the valid end of all actions 2 : excessive concern for oneself with or without exaggerated feelings of self-importance Main Entry: ego·tism Function: noun Etymology: Latin ego + English -tism (as in idiotism) Date: 1714 1 a : excessive use of the first person singular personal pronoun b : the practice of talking about oneself too much 2 : an exaggerated sense of self-importance : CONCEIT |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Ummm... supposing that my thread is one of the three (aren't there actually more than that now?) then, Rob, I think you'll have to retract your 'male ego' comment, thank-you-very-much. Try 'female intuition.' |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Ouch, the razor edge of the female sword stings deeply. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ahhh, so the Koreans were correct. We use it wrong. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
I don't know Brad. I know they have a different meaning but I can't ever be really sure which one to use. Must be one of those mental block things. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Selfness/Selfishness/Selfcenteredness √ |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
That is because "Self" has been in the english language from the earliest times. It is pure english, not Greekish [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-03-2003 01:41 AM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Pete, Do you think it would do better to have Critical Analysis password accessed like the Poetry Workshop? Perhaps it would make people take it a bit more seriously if they had to agree to guidelines before getting a password; and treat it more like a workshop here too. Just a suggestion. Essorant [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-03-2003 01:54 AM).] |
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