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Local Rebel
Member Ascendant

since 1999-12-21

Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia

0 posted 2003-05-05 11:53 PM

"I am not the one you know
but the one you seek"
said the prophet
her hair black in flowing braids
to knees
smelling of snuff,
buckskin, and lilacs

"The one you seek
has no face you know
so I wear the one
the face you do know
as a dream of snow reveals
you've kicked the blanket
from your bed."

Dream sun squinting eyes
she turned ancient faced
bronzed and creased
into subtle smile
and folded hands callused
across her lap

"Listen ;"

The secret of Power:
"The river is mighty
because the stream
hears the mountain's will
and knows the sea is thirsty

The ocean is vast
for it drinks
from every river
large and small
from every stream
old and new

The wind is strong
in the sun's embrace
--the sun that birthed
every lust under heaven--
and returns the rivers' tears
to the mountain

The mountain rises to take
the rain from the sky
because it knows it is weary
to carry it so far

And the desert is dry
because it will not stand up
to the wind.

When you understand this
you will understand power
when you understand power
you will know love
and when you know love
you will have
wisdom"

These were the secrets the prophet spoke

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (05-06-2003 12:35 AM).]

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

1 posted 2003-05-06 11:31 AM

Hi Reb,

Good to see you again. You haven't been around CA for a while.

I think I'll leave critique of this one to someone who maybe understands it better than I, but for a comment or two.

I found the images and combinations of words and ideas interesting and enjoyable but toward the end, it seemed like maybe you tried to cover too much ground. It may be that I just got lost though. I think you may be relating to some other work that I don't know. If that is the case then someone will soon pick up on it. In any event, understanding will require further study.

After giving others a chance to explore, maybe you can give some insight. That is, assuming it doesn't all become clear before.

Thanks,
Pete

Kamala
Member

since 2003-04-17

Posts 59
CA, USA

2 posted 2003-05-07 04:39 PM

Local Rebel,

I really like the ethos of what your going for, and I think you're on the right track with the whole prophet-speak style... kinda circuitous, paradoxical, etc.  But in this case, I also don't think it's clear enough.  I mean, I think the heart of the poem really begins at "Listen,"... but then you go into different bodies of water, wind, desert, etc... and then suddenly we're in understanding of power, love, and wisdom.  But the leap seems rather large and the connection isn't exactly clear.  Why is the river mighty because of the stream?  And what does that have to do with power and wisdom?  I just kept wondering... what are you *really* trying to say here underneath all of this imagery and stuff.

On a technical note, I really think you need to punctuate this.  Let me give you an example of why:

"her hair black in flowing braids
to knees
smelling of snuff,
buckskin, and lilacs "

Does SHE smell like all of that stuff or do her KNEES smell like all of that stuff.  I know the latter sounds absurd, but without punctuation it's possible to read it that way.  And there are several places where this kind of confusion arises.

I also think you should be conscious of form here.  The poem is really in two sections:  1) the set up of the imagery of the prophet (her appearance, smells, face, hands) and 2) her words.  Aside from the fact that I'm not sure what you mean by some of your metaphors in the latter half, it hangs together fairly well.  The opening half, however, I found kind of disorienting.  What does the whole "snow reveals you've kicked the blanket from your bed" thing mean?  Is the speaker dreaming?  Is the prophet a "dream sun" or is she squinting because of a dream sun?  She has long black hair (not grey) but yet she's ancient, bronzed, and creased?  Some of the images just seem to contradict each other and I have trouble as a reader placing myself -- am I in a dream or in a vision or awake or what?  Am I in some kind of hut with the prophet?  A dream hut?

Okay, I'll stop there... I think the idea is really compelling, and I like the prophet's voice a lot... I just wish I understood more what she is trying to tell me and what *you* mean to accomplish in connecting nature to power, love, and wisdom.

Hope this helps,
Kamala

"At times, indeed, almost ridiculous--
Almost, at times, the Fool."

~~ T.S. Eliot

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant

since 1999-12-21

Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia

3 posted 2003-05-08 12:55 PM

Thanks Pete -- don't post much poetry b/c I'm not writing any new ones.. this one dates back a couple of years but it's never been up for CA

Maybe it does rush a tad toward the end -- but if it does that would be true to form for a dream.

Kamala -- Thank you also -- it's nice to get back some slice and dice. Just be glad I have SOME punctuation

I quite often use absolutely none which drives Brad nuts.

I don't mind going into some explaination of the setup -- but -- revealing the actual words of the prophet is a bit like asking Poe to tell us what was in the pit.

I learned an interesting lesson in the ninth grade when I wrote a poem for lit class and the teacher went wild over it, complementing me on being so 'mature' and gushing over the depth of understanding and meaning in it.

Turns out -- I didn't mean anything close to what she had read into it!

The set-up;

When I was a child a real Native American tribal princess lived in my house for a breif period.  She was old.  When you're young old looks ancient, which she did.  She always wore authentic dress, and she had long BLACK braids.  Did she dye it?  I don't know -- might have been a wig.  But she always smelled like lilacs, buckskin, and snuff.

She didn't speak much.

But when she did all the adults acted like manna was falling from heaven.

The second strophe refers to why she is appearing in the dream (which was an actual dream of the writer) which is -- because to me -- she represents wisdom, ultimate wisdom -- therefore -- God -- the one I seek that has no face -- so instead -- it is her face -- but not her.

The reference to a dream of snow is from my own body of knowledge.  The Kabbalists explain the interaction of the creator with the created by likening the dreamer to the dream -- so that God herself doesn't actually 'show up' in our plane of existence but rather hints around -- as in -- when you dream you're freezing to death on a frozen ice berg at the north pole you awaken to find that the covers are kicked off the bed and someone turned the AC way down.  A sort of nested reality.

As to the interpretation of the words of the prophet -- hey -- when you understand them you will understand them -- just like me.

(But I'm willing to discuss what I think they may mean if someone wants to go first)

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (05-08-2003 01:12 AM).]

iliana
Member Patricius

since 2003-12-05

Posts 13434
USA

4 posted 2004-08-06 11:55 PM

I hope you'll forgive me, Reb, because I did not come in here to critique; I just don't do that very well. Instead, I read for the pleasure and sense of things. This poem, even before I read your posts explaining the background, touched me deeply as being a very personal experience, and very much one of inner discovery. The verses of Earth's elements and how they work in harmony reminded me of a song performed by Peter, Paul & Mary years ago. I think the name of it was, "I don't want your sometime loving." I sincerely enjoyed your poem.

Juju
Member Elite

since 2003-12-29

Posts 3429
In your dreams

5 posted 2005-01-24 10:51 PM

This is awsome. I am glad I came across this. I love the imagery, well Imagery is my yen, so extra plus. I think the imagery is what sticks out to me.

-Juju

Sunshine

Administrator

Member Empyrean

since 1999-06-25

Posts 63354
Listening to every heart

6 posted 2005-02-04 03:16 PM

I remember this...

Earth Angel
Member Empyrean

since 2002-08-27

Posts 40215
Realms of Light

7 posted 2005-02-07 01:49 PM

To start off with, I am such a fan of your poetry that I am hard-pressed to give an objective opinion of it.

You stirred me with your impassioned words and images. I knew I was listening to the voice of a prophet and it touched my spirit deeply.

Punctuation at times can get in the way of the flow of thoughts. I rather liked how you broke up your sentences giving both pauses and impact.

You are a fine writer Rebel With A Cause! You have the power to move this reader with your poetry.

Love & Light,
EA

Martie

Moderator

Member Empyrean

since 1999-09-21

Posts 28049
California

8 posted 2005-02-07 07:09 PM

Reb...I must echo Iliana....I hope you don't mind. I think you are a terrific writer, and what you say is always so enlightening. It's good to see you with poetry again. I hope you will post more!

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant

since 1999-12-21

Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia

9 posted 2006-09-04 09:24 PM

many belated thanks to all... reading a few years later makes it seem like reading someone elses writing..

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

10 posted 2006-12-19 06:15 PM

And yet the desert will outlast it all.

I was wondering what the listener was thinking.

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