Imagery and the craft of poetry (in a ballad)

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Marc-Andre
Senior Member

since 2008-12-07

Posts 501

0 posted 2008-12-22 12:41 PM

Perhaps this belongs solely to MC (if so, delete the post and accept my apologies), where I've posted it some time ago but I'd like to risk reposting it here for feedback and criticism, especially on its imagery (similes and metaphors), poetic craft (e.g. assonance and alliteration), and clarity or want of it. It is a folk ballad, replete with anapestic substitutions to enhance the ballad feel. Oh, and some common words (perfect, stigma, style) have more specific meanings in the language of botany. Thanks for reading. Mark

THE FLOWER OF WONG WIEN YAI

Oh heed my humble bagatelle,
I’ll sing, as you guzzle, ho!
of a seedy chap and what befell
in the City of Angels, lo!

His quest led him to Wong Wien Yai,
craving, on a fruitless night;
amid the fairies Lilac met,
she bloomed in the urban blight.

“Take me to your room, my handsome man
and I’ll give you a massage;
will you be my groom, my handsome man
we’ll fire up with some frottage.”

“Meseems you’re a spring beauty, miss
a narcissus, or foxtail lily;
I’ll blithely take you to my room
for perfect you seem, and comely.”

“Perfect as a lily, jonquil or rose
you’ll feel I am indeed;
my stamen I have preserved, you’ll see,
and you shall be well pleased.”

“You state your stamen, you’re a man?
yet with charms you do beguile;
a saccharine cherry you appear,
with petals of such style.”

“You like the style, then why not try
to inseminate my style?
I have the stigma, let’s not wait
you can taste me in the aisle.”

“In your aisle, I’ll taste the stigma,
in your style, I’ll plant my seed;
my mannish stalk is avid, miss,
and your pistil, it’ll bleed.”

He hasted, gave her all his baht,
her firm breasts, began to knead;
but with her spear she dug his clod,
and as he began to bleed…

…The police nailed them as they dallied.
The flower shelled out bail;
and our chap, his sap and money spent,
he spent the night in jail.

Our chap, he spent the night in the cell
of his own woes, the midwife;
he had to call his mom for bail,
he lost his funds and his wife.

As for Lilac, she’s back in Wong Wien Yai,
and should you stumble on her:
she’s apt to work her wiles on you,
and spark your darkest desire.

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

1 posted 2008-12-22 07:54 AM

You are quite a pistil, Marc-Andre

Like the story but, at first glance, had a little trouble with the meter.

I'm off to work now but I'll be more specific when I return, if you like. Your dedication to the craft continues to be top-notch.

chopsticks
Senior Member

since 2007-10-02

Posts 888
The US,

2 posted 2008-12-22 10:22 AM

Yes, very good Mark . To my ear almost any one of the twelve stanzas is 4/5 of a limerick . Was that

deliberate ? Don’t spill any of you secrets .

Btw, for some reason it reminds me of an old WW11 poem~ Chinatown Bumboat~

Marc-Andre
Senior Member

since 2008-12-07

Posts 501

3 posted 2008-12-22 11:10 AM

Chopsticks, I just found and read "The Chinatown Bumboat" and I can see that you understood the ballad perfectly

Yes, Balladeer, I would love to read your elaborate critique on this poem. I'd first let you know the "rules" with which it was written:

1- The stanzas are in common measure, that is quatrains alternating tetrameter and trimeter with an ABCB rhyme scheme.

2- I wrote this for the ballad assignment in William Baer's Writing Metrical Poetry, which instructed to incorporate two to three anapests per stanza "to enhance the ballad feel."

3- Restricted and judicial use of metrical substitutions. But use of few such substitutions, feminine endings and truncated lines. I think that the trochaic substitution in L2 of the second stanza (craving) is justified as the word does set the tone of the story (or so I like to believe.)

4- Precise use of "botanical" vocabulary throughout the poem.

5- Liberal use of assonance and alliterations.

6- Write a humorous battle of wits, a dramatic dialogue that moves the story forward.

I'd love to hear how well I have achieved on the above points.

Thanks again for reading, and for the dedication you put into your critiques. Mark

P.S.: I think you will enjoy this, an ode to poetic forms. /pip/Forum106/HTML/003024.html

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
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4 posted 2008-12-22 11:17 PM

Well, first off, here are your syllable counts by stanza. A quick look at this will show that the poem cannot possibly have a reasonable flow to it. It MUST be choppy, which it is.

8 - 6 - 9 - 8
8 - 6 - 8 - 7
9 - 7 - 9 - 7
8 -10- 8 - 8
10-6 - 9 - 6
8 - 7 - 9 - 6
8 - 7 - 8 - 7
8 - 6 - 8 - 6
8 - 6 - 8 - 6
9 - 6 - 9 - 6
9 - 7 - 8 - 7
10-7 - 8 - 7

After that, we move on to the meter of the poem. Let's zero in on the first beats of each line...

oh, HEED     (iambic)
i'll SING        (iambic)
of a SEED    (anapestic)
in the CIT      (anapestic)

His QUEST        (iambic)
CRAVing           (trochaic)
aMID                 (iambic)
she BLOOMED  (iambic)

TAKE me          (trochaic)
and I’ll GIVE      (anapestic)
Will YOU           (iambic)
we’ll FIRE          (iambic)

“Me SEEMS       (iambic)
a narCIS             (anapestic)
I’ll BLITHE          (iambic)
for PER              (iambic)

PERfect             (trochaic)
you’ll FEEL        (iambic)
my STA             (iambic)
and YOU            (iambic)

“You STATE           (iambic)
yet with CHARMS   (anapestic)
a SAC                    (iambic)
with PET                 (iambic)

“You  LIKE              (iambic)
to in SEM               (anapestic)
I HAVE                   (iambic)
you can TASTE       (anapestic)

“In your AISLE        (anapestic)
in your STYLE        (anapestic)
my MAN                (iambic)
and your PIS          (anapestic)

I could go on with the rest of them but that should be enough to show that the foundation of the lines, along with the erratic syllable counts,  makes a smooth rhythm in the poem impossible. Sorry....

Incorporating anapests to give the ballad feel is an excellent idea but the anapests need to occur in the same positions in the lines.


“Take me to your room, my handsome man
will you be my groom, my handsome man

That is perfect.

Our chap, he spent the night in the cell
of his own woes, the midwife;

That is not.

Ifyou go through the lines and examine the construction, you will see that the iambs, anapests and trochees are scattered and not uniformly placed, further adding to the clumsiness of the construction.

Your botanical references are top-notch and your assonance and alliterations excellent. and your pistil, it’ll bleed.”   - one of my favorites.

I don't mean to be negative by these replies but, when you speak of ballads, you need to be speaking of smooth. That's why so many ballads were transformed into songs. If the poem is not smooth, easy on the eyes, ears and tongue, then it is not a good ballad.

Write on, good sir

Marc-Andre
Senior Member

since 2008-12-07

Posts 501

5 posted 2008-12-23 12:43 PM

Many heartfelt thanks for the time you dedicate to your critiques, Balladeer. It seems I've got a lot on my hands, it will take some time before I've fixed that one.

A stupid question. Quote: "Incorporating anapests to give the ballad feel is an excellent idea but the anapests need to occur in the same positions in the lines." Are we talking of the same position in one particular stanza, or throughout the whole ballad?

chopsticks
Senior Member

since 2007-10-02

Posts 888
The US,

6 posted 2008-12-23 09:39 AM

What a magnificent critique. Balladeer, I think you love poetry like general George Patton loved war.

I mean that as the highest complement.

Marc-Andre
Senior Member

since 2008-12-07

Posts 501

7 posted 2008-12-23 10:18 AM

The Ballad of Old Blood and Guts. That would be worth writing

And perhaps we should also write The Tribulations of General Stillwell and General Peanut

Chopsticks, you are to me a source of inspiration! Mark

chopsticks
Senior Member

since 2007-10-02

Posts 888
The US,

8 posted 2008-12-23 07:44 PM

Thanks Mark, that proves that inspiration can come from anywhere and that's good.

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

9 posted 2008-12-23 09:06 PM

Guilty as charged, chopsticks

To me, poetry is the most beautiful form of communication in life and more so when the words flow off the tongue and past the eye as smoothly as the evening tide under a full moon.

Marc-Andre, with respect to anapestic insertions, no, not in the same place throughout the entire ballad but through complimentary lines. By that, I mean this. Metered poems consist of complimentary lines, i.e., lines that compliment each other. In a standard metered poem, that normally means the rhyming lines. In stilted meter, it means the lines with the same amount of syllables. For example...

I used to walk on the beach at night
How calming the sound of the waves
They brought me peace that was pure delight
And beauty that every soul craves.

The anapests in lines 1 and 3 are similarity placed, as are the anapests in lines 2 and 4, even though the anapests are in different places in lines 1-2 and 3-4. That maintains the proper flow of the poem. Hope that helps

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