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Critical Analysis #2
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For Counting Syllables
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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For Counting Syllables |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
If you fill up your crystal with my smiles Then your sweetened tongue shall not be tasted through Your art of words. But on golden tray of Your firm heart beat you present your humble Admiration warmly like aged wine from Romanee-Conti’s Burgundy, Pint Noir, Between two goblets, wisdom and conscience, Brimming up with one in pure love, another With Love again and etched deeply of your thought of caring and hard endurance. Before the crispy season closes the party I shall empty all my bottles to wait On your intense affection and passion For should you not be here next year this time, I could pour out cup by cup those sweet muse. [This message has been edited by TomMark (12-01-2007 01:58 PM).] |
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| © Copyright 2007 TomMark - All Rights Reserved | |||
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Tom, I bumped this one up just in case I missed something and in your case that is quite possible . You are so unassuming. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Chops, good or bad? can it be read as poetic verses? Thank you for the reading. Tom. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Tom, it is not good, it is great. The first line and the last two are fantastic. I don't have time to take this to spell check as I.m going to my deer stand for a couple hours. |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
And there you are, TomMark, actual lines of poetry, each one of which seems to hold together. Give the man a round of applause; he deserves it. One thing at a time. In case you didn't notice, you've also got some other things going for you. You spend line six being entirely concrete and specific. You took a shot at a very interesting modifier—"crispy" season—and you were absolutely fearless in taking a shot at what you were trying to learn. Fearless and ambitious and willing to make mistakes to learn how to go about putting together a personal voice, you can't improve on that very much, TomMark, as a good starting place. The next thing you might want to take a swing at, TomMark, is getting your diction into the realm of the everyday and out of the clouds. If I turned to my wife, for example, and said to her, Babe, "If you fill up your crystal with my smiles,/ then your sweetened tongue shall not be tasted through /Your art of words." Elaine, who is both a good businesswoman and a fine 17th century english lit scholar and fan, would reach for the family thermometer and a bottle of psychoactive medication. She'd know I was talking funny right off the bat because we don't talk to each other that way any more. My wife and I own crystal, mind you, but we very seldom use it, and to talk about it in a poem gives the poem the imagry of romance novel cover. This is a very special kind of fiction with a substantial element of demi erotic fantasy to it. It is harder to write a poem in this particular language, I think, than in any other idiom, and more beginning poets are seduced by it than any other possibility. I have never seen any modern poet succeed at it, though many of them get stuck there. There are pleasures in that, I suppose; I can't reccommend them. Better to ask yourself, what am I actually trying to say here? If you were trying to say that first sentence, for example, in down and dirty, straight from the shoulder English from you to the woman, what would you be saying? Is this woman drinking too much or have you merely tried to use a wine drinking convention from Marlowe and Johnson to set a stage? Are the two of you in a bar? Is her tongue sweet? Has she been chewing honey losenges, and have the two of you been kissing? There is an actual plot here, you see that has concrete elements, a Schlitz Sign in a darkened bar, lowered lights in a living room, sincerel conversation between parting people. Take a few minutes and write down some concrete things about a real woman that you're—simply through the magic of your own imagination—putting into the poem. She's wearing three interesting things, what are they? She's told you something absolutely wonderful, the most wonderful thing you've ever been told in your life, but for some obscure reason, you're not allowed to mention it. The meeting takes place in a room that's painted some sort of distinctive color, does it make you comfortable or not to be there. Are you going to see this woman again. Are there flowers outside? What is the season? Never mention the word "poem." Never use a word longer that two syllables. Use at least two major lies in the course of the poem. Change any of the rules you want to except the one about the use of the word "poem." End the poem with shock. Use everyday language. Try playing with that or any piece of that you'd enjoy. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. The point is, though, 1) you've shown you can write lines. Take some credit for that; and, 2) try being concrete, specific, and everyday in your diction. Avoid poeticisms. 3) It's about having fun and being playful. 4) You need to do some major lying in your verse, simply to see if you can surprise yourself. I think you'll find that some of the lies come closer to the truth than some of the truths you've banged your head trying to figure out. Have some fun. My best, BobK. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
oh, dear Bob K, is it "poeticism" that I shall pursuit? to try to write a formed poem? Thank you for your words and I'll try to practice on that. Thank you again, dear Bob K have a wonderful weekend! Tom |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Counting syllables? As I read it line two has 11 syllables, line nine has 9 and line eleven has 12 syllables the rest have 10. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Grinch, thank you. You are right. So word "sweetened", you read as three syllables? I try to make 10 a line but I am a very impatient person. Thank you again,Grinch. I'll modify it. Tom If you fill up your crystal with my smiles Then your sweetened tongue shall not be tasted Through your art of words. But on golden tray Of your heart beat you present your humble Admiration warmly like aged wine from Romanee-Conti’s Burgundy, Pint Noir, Between two goblets, wisdom and conscience, Brimming up with one in pure love, another In Love again and both etched deeply of your thought of caring and hard endurance. Before crispy season closes the party I shall empty all my bottles to wait On your intense affection and passion For should you not be here next year this time, I could pour out cup by cup those sweet muse. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
quote: No. Then your sweet ened tongue shall not be tas ted through Eleven syllables, but only two in sweetened. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Grinch Thank you again with my heart. Now you know how much I knew about the counting. Tom |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Syllable counting can sometimes be like herding cats, they sometimes don’t go where you think they should.  Can I ask a question? Do you think this is a good poem Tom? [This message has been edited by Grinch (12-01-2007 06:23 PM).] |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Or dear Grinch, I wrote it so I think that it should be immortal and everyone shall quote from it. But I don't mind if other says that this is a bad one.  |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
quote: I wish you luck.  quote: And shatter your hopes? I’ll pass.  |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Grinch, be kind, tell me the truth, by your common sense or general criteria, so you think that this is a bad one, right? |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
TomMark, Worry about good or bad simply makes you a poet. Thinking somebody can actually answer the question is a distraction. If somebody says "Good" to you, you're going to doubt their authority (at best). If somebody says "Bad" to you, the part of you that's always felt dubious about yourself does a little dance of glee, and you get to feel depressed. TomMark, I'd be stupid to tell you to stop worrying. It would be like asking water to flow uphill. What I can do is to ask you to use your worry productively. Instead of asking yourself was the poem good or bad, ask yourself—and then ONLY after you've finished a draft—have I made enough mistakes here? Then can I learn from these mistakes? Then, what are the mistakes I know I can fix here. Mistakes in counting syllables are mistakes only if they get in your way. You are not a bad person for not counting well. Counting syllables at this stage is simply a way of getting you moving. The goal is writing poems, not counting to ten. Both of us know you can count to ten. This is a first draft. Keep your eye on the ball. The ball for you, at this point, is probably diction and clarity. Don't flee into poetic diction because you're writing poetry. Stay clear. Don't go for fancy tropes. Relax. One or two syllable words if you can. This is my way, and I've tried to embody some of what I've been talking about as an illustration. Feel free to ignore or dislike it. If there's something in it you can use, take it. If it's uncomfortable, don't. The girl next door and I are really farm Animals. She says I'm one of the pigs Because my diet is nothing but slop. I store my laundry all over the floor, It's fine with me. So's most everything else, So long as I get to make eyes at my Lamb. I don't think I've put enough objects in that, or used enough sensory impressions, but it's a first draft. I hope it clarifies some of what I've been saying. All my best, BobK |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Bob K, you are such a kind person. Thank you for the encouragement which is powerful enough to make water flow uphill. Thank you again with my heart. You wonderful guy! Tom |
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