»
Archives
»
Critical Analysis #2
»
Birds
| Critical Analysis #2 |
|
Birds |
|
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
A giant eagle flew across their field, Its brown and yellow painted feathers scraped The tinted glass and waved the grass and sealed Another year of fear, another mate. Its wings, eleven feet in width, its eyes Like golden pearls, its talons large enough To grab an infant in a child sun's rise, Another year of fear, another mate. Another year a fire that comes too late To stop the drunken belches in between The punches, insults, empty glasses used Against each other to replay the scene Like Asian shadow plays behind a screen. The banquet finished in an ember glow, The smell of sandalwood, a shape unseen, It lit a match and then a torch to throw Another year a fire that comes too late. Who threw the torch, who spilled the kerosene To kill the eagle killers with the skill To make your simple country life serene? "We see that what you say is what you know, The goal should be to save a few of these, To force them, to deny or curb their will As in that play by Aristophanes? Like Circe or sirens, we know what men Enjoy and Lysistrata was a fool To fight against their just and natural end. How dare you ask? How could we be so cruel? That men will come attack and fight and kill The bird, it isn't something to be feared. A month or two from now it would be still, It was genetically engineered. And next, the condor or the hawk, the crow, An owl or raven will come to dictate Another year a fire that comes too late, Another year of fear, another mate." [This message has been edited by Brad (09-02-2007 02:18 AM).] |
||
| © Copyright 2007 Brad - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
wow, Brad, you indeed wrote wonderful poem. so very good. enjoyed the read Tomtoo I'll come back to read again carefully. |
||
|
guyoverthere Member
since 2007-08-12
Posts 58 |
"To grab an infant in a child sun's rise" - that line made my tongue trip a bit. Then, after reading it a couple more times, it seemed to flow a bit better... to GRAB an INfant in a CHILD SUN'S rise - is how I read it and I feel like it reads well this way. I loved the line "Like Asian shadow plays behind a screen" I thought that line was outstanding. Excellent words. I also really liked how you worked "genetically engineered" into it. It gave the whole poem a modern feel, like it 'time-stamped' it, made it seem real 'now'. "An owl or raven will come to dictate" - reads like this to me: an OWL or RAVen will COME to (DICtate or DIC*TATE) not sure how to read 'dictate' but even after reading it a few times in a few different ways the word still reads awkwardly to me. Overall that poem was really remarkable. I enjoyed the social commentary, the implied political undertones, and the philosophical bend with the mention of Lysistrata (that man's nature is unchangable). I also enjoyed how you left a lot of room for the reader to interpret certain images in the poem in different ways. It really did prompt some musings over here on this end of the screen. My only gripe is the use of that line "another year of fear, another mate". I understand that if you are going to use it more than once, you need to use it more than twice, otherwise the reader doesn't know to concentrate on its importance (if you only use it twice, it just seems redundant, not important). However, I'm not a fan of this technique and I think it steals my attention from so many other beautiful images in the poem. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Since we can't ask "what" and "why", before I compose my Birds-inspired "poem", how long shall I wait for your line by line explanation? I can't pretend that I read this poem in the year of 4893 when the author is not available. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Do I really have to do that again? |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Yes, yes, dear Sir!! at least roughly!! the structure, the meaning and the meters. anything you want the readers to know. And hurry!!!!  |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
That's not good advice. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Essorant I am sorry that I did not speak your lauguage...you are truly a master of words. So, Sir Brad, take your time.  |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: You can always ask what or why. You can always be inspired by another poem. I do it all the time. If you're referring to my comment, "Don't ask, 'what does it mean'," all I meant is that I don't start with some abstract idea. I start with an image, a line, or whatever and work it out. I just don't think the abstract way is a very interesting to go. |
||
|
ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
L4? Don't eagles mate for life? Or is that just Lobsters? |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
"A giant eagle flew across their field, Its brown and yellow painted feathers scraped The tinted glass and waved the grass and sealed Another year of fear, another mate." eagel-B52 Tinted glass-confusing, blur view grass-grassroots mate-companion ( can be anything, esp, something to soul) "Its wings, eleven feet in width, its eyes Like golden pearls, its talons large enough To grab an infant in a child sun's rise, Another year of fear, another mate." infant-Sun A child sun's rise-Abomb Don't say that I was worng, Sir Brad. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
"Another year a fire that comes too late To stop the drunken belches in between The punches, insults, empty glasses used Against each other to replay the scene" what is "fire"---(righteous voice?) who are those drunken? "Like Asian shadow plays behind a screen. The banquet finished in an ember glow, The smell of sandalwood, a shape unseen, It lit a match and then a torch to throw" The hallucination of some pretending behave indeed brought out scary conseqence. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Another year a fire that comes too late. Who threw the torch, who spilled the kerosene To kill the eagle killers with the skill To make your simple country life serene? "We see that what you say is what you know, "The goal should be to save a few of these, To force them, to deny or curb their will As in that play by Aristophanes? Like Circe or sirens, we know what men Enjoy and Lysistrata was a fool To fight against their just and natural end. How dare you ask? How could we be so cruel?" I'll come back for my comment and unknowns. or I ma wrong in grouping your S |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Do eagles mate for life? I don't know. What does that have to do with the poem? Are the sentences correctly separated? I don't know because I don't know what you're trying to do. |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Once again it seems obvious no one finds a very clear meaning or message to your poem, except perhaps you. Is that what you want? |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Sir Brad, what if I read out not as what you meant to write? you do not mind if i misunderstand your poem? |
||
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Come on, Brad, don't make him beg, explain your poem to Tom. You know you want to. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: And once again, let me explain to you: There is no clear meaning or message to the poem. It is not a lyric, it is a narrative. It is a story. It is not confessional, it is dramatic. And with that in mind, it is firmly rooted in the tradition of English poetry. And TomMark is not everybody. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: If you use the words in the poem and come up with an alternate reading, then it is my fault for not anticipating that. quote: Believe me, if you put the work into it, I will celebrate it. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Maybe this will help you, Tom: "General purposes in Semiotics and Literary Theory, a 'narrative' is a story or part of a story. It may be spoken, written or imagined, and it will have one or more points of view representing some or all of the participants or observers. In stories told verbally, there is a person telling the story, a narrator whom the audience can see and hear, and who adds layers of meaning to the text nonverbally. The narrator also has the opportunity to monitor the audience's response to the story and to modify the manner of the telling to clarify content or enhance listener interest. This is distinguishable from the written form in which the author must gauge the readers likely reactions when they are decoding the text and make a final choice of words in the hope of achieving the desired response." |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
And, Tom, Google "Narrative Poetry" for more information. Was going to post some links but my computer has slowed to a crawl. Sorry. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Brad "And TomMark is not everybody." you are right. I am no-body, not every-body Will you please write two or three lines to tell your story so I can understande better? You spend too much time in other's poem. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Man: A giant eagle flew across their field, its brown and yellow painted feathers scraped the tinted glass and waved the grass and sealed another year of fear, another mate. Its wings, eleven feet in width, its eyes like golden pearls, its talons large enough to grab an infant in a child sun's rise,another year of fear, another mate. Another year a fire that comes too late to stop the drunken belches in between the punches, insults, empty glasses used against each other to replay the scene like Asian shadow plays behind a screen. The banquet finished in an ember glow, the smell of sandalwood, a shape unseen, it lit a match and then a torch to throw another year a fire that comes too late. Who threw the torch, who spilled the kerosene to kill the eagle killers with the skill to make your simple country life serene? Women: "We see that what you say is what you know, the goal should be to save a few of these, to force them, to deny or curb their will as in that play by Aristophanes? Like Circe or sirens, we know what men enjoy, and Lysistrata was a fool to fight against their just and natural end. How dare you ask? How could we be so cruel? That men will come attack and fight and kill the bird, it isn't something to be feared. A month or two from now it would be still, it was genetically engineered. And next, the condor or the hawk, the crow, an owl or raven will come to dictate another year a fire that comes too late, another year of fear, another mate." ---------------------- Does that help? Uh, as far as I can tell, you're a non-native speaker. Chinese by any chance? If so, I applaud the time and effort you put into these forums. Believe me, I feel your pain. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: I don't think you spend enough. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Brad, Is it only me who did not read out that this was a conversation between a man and women? Then my pain is beyond your sense. Am I a Chinese? I heard Da Chang Geng and i'll be in Seoul in 8 days. (not for marriage) |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Brad "Does that help?"...not much. the more I read it, the heavier I felt. It is about war, About ignorance, about hopeless of human being. About War Maker man. About the broken dream of women. But I do not feel that you were telling a story. For the beauty of it, I will say it is a piece of music...one senses it with partial understanding...about the feelings but not the real meaning. [This message has been edited by TomMark (09-09-2007 12:32 AM).] |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: What happens here? No symbols, no meter. What is the subject or subjects and what is the main verb or verbs? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Well Brad, I don't think this poem (or even much of your poetry that I've read) is generally "accessible" to the average reader on the first go. I happen to like the challenge of the extra effort of thought though. I am a reference junkie anyhow, and I enjoy unraveling the alluded references. On my first reading, I had the idea of a casual but earnest discussion after a feast. Now I'm convinced that the discussion was the feast. (And I don't care if that's not what you had in mind when you wrote it...grin, it's my impression, and I am now wedded to that.) I confess I don't always love (or "get") your poetry, but I do love this one. In fact, I'm craving peeled grapes...  |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
"A giant eagle flew across their field, its brown and yellow painted feathers scraped the tinted glass and waved the grass and sealed another year of fear, another mate." Subject eagle and its feather verbs flew, scraped, waved, sealed tinted glass and grass can be read as a landscape or sunglass and people. Using "Sealed" here obviously means that you are not talking about landscape. And It meant "surely". the fear...fear of war, Another mate....if related to that play then, means "who cares, we'll continue fight". or, I totally misunderstand you? |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Yes. quote: No, you're still trying to jump ahead of the game. No symbols, no meter, no metaphor. quote: What is the main point in the second sentence? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I don't know what the main part is, but this is one of my favorite parts. I just happen to have a passing interest in the folklore of Eagle child abduction--somewhere I actually have a newspaper clipping of the last known reported incident, in Iran in the 1980's--I think. (Yes, I'm weird, I think that's been established, now let's go on.) anyhoo-- So I already knew a little bit about "harpies" before I researched it. (I told ya once--I think it was you anyhow, I like anthropology) but anyhow, I did find this on a wikispurtisportia: "They were usually seen as the personifications of the destructive nature of wind. The Harpies in this tradition, now thought of as three sisters instead of the original two, were: Aello ("storm swift"), Celaeno ("the dark") — also known as Podarge ("fleet-foot") — and Ocypete ("the swift wing")." This also led me to the "thunderbird", both a mythological creature, and just happens to be the name of an aircraft utilized by the USAF. (It's also the name of a really bad, but potently addictive cheap wine too. But wince...we won't go there, or should we?) But the Thunderbird mythology is fascinating, and is generally considered a--oh wait--these guys say it better: http://www.enotes.com/myths-legends/thunderbird And this is why I love this stuff--you give me a little bit? And I'll think my own poetry, thank you. I love this poem.  It lets my mind play. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Fair enough, I just want TM to work through the poem to show that it is not difficult. But what the hell, the first two strophes were inspired by two things: 1. An out of the corner of your eye hallucination thing: I saw, I don't know, six or seven birds through my window and, for a second, it looked like they were one bird. I cringed. A little farther in the back and to the corner happens to be a middle sized rice field. The first draft was working with that image, one out of many, many out of one approach -- I changed my mind later. 2. A year or two ago, I read a newspaper article about giant bird sighting in, I think, Alaska. At any rate, the residents of the town or village were understandably worried about their children. As far as I know, it was a false alarm. Giant flying birds haven't been around for a hundred thousand years or so. The harpy stuff is great. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Brad, you just want me to scream, right? I am waiting for the rest. I'll see how I have been porpelled to Mars. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
oh, you silly birds. Under eaves and between trees You could build your dreams of fantacy why dwell in my mind and dine on my heart and dung my life as crazies?  |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
 |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Brad, "------------------------------------ Its wings, eleven feet in width, its eyes like golden pearls, its talons large enough to grab an infant in a child sun's rise,another year of fear, another mate. -------------------------------------------- What is the main point in the second sentence?" The power, beauty, strength, fear and uncertainty. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Brad "Fair enough, I just want TM to work through the poem to show that it is not difficult." It is very difficult for me. Esp when you applied Math as 1 bird X 7 =1 eagle. again |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
What are you talking about? What is the main point of the second sentence? I post a response to Karen and you get that wrong. What are you screaming about? |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
nothing! Out of frustration! |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Frustration from what? You apparently have some goal here. I don't know what it is. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Brad I read a poem and enjoy it's mood, emotion, tune, words chosen, structure, rhyme and its story. If the authur is alive to tell, then I want to know that if what I read is what he meant. It is always intersting to learn the background and the authur's thought. My intention merely comes from curiocity. I myself will never be able to read out your mind and view. My goal is to try to appriciate your poem MORE by have some background information. But only if you are willing to tell. I certainly do not want to annoy you. This CA. if you post it in Open, I will not ask anything like this. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ah screw it. It's about a bird, a big bird. The bird is dangerous. Men kill the bird. They have a party. There is a fire, they die. It happens every year. |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Sir Essorant, what is "Ah screw it."? |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
It is coarse language, meaning something toward "a curse upon it" "forget about it" "don't care about it", "I give up" |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Thank you very much, Sir Essorant. Is it poetic expression or for the purpose of meter? PS, are you clear about his poem now? |
||
|
moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
~Passes Brad a large tumbler of neat Laphroaig~ |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Together with the bottle he'll be more glad |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Mike, Oh my God, I deleted this thing by accident. I'm so sorry. Please, please repost. I was trying to e-mail you and my daughter distracted me. This is not a joke, it was not intentional. It was an accident, honest. [This message has been edited by Brad (09-11-2007 07:54 PM).] |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
When Sir Balladeer comes back to read, he will say, "This thread is getting more interesting hourly." |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Brad, don't worry!!! Following are main points of what Sir Balladeer posted 1. He thought that your thread was very interesting. 2. He was puzzled that you said that your poem had a story but no meaning. If a novel like this it would not get on ranking. But poems should just be like this sort of writing. 3. He said that he was lazy. If he did not get the meaning of first verse , he would not go on reading. He cound not understand why we bother ourselves to have a clear understanding of your poem. 3. He thought attaking other people's poem was way too personal hurt. 4. he also said that What you want was what you want. If you want to post your poem in CA but do not want to get CA still you do what you want. 5. He said that he double posted. and he finished with a strange Icon....a little green face and it's hands takes off his black hat. |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
LOL! Thanks, Tom....I think. That was one of the more interesting interpretations of my words I've ever seen No worries, Brad. I believe in honest mistakes. I didn't save it so reposting is out but that doesn't matter. The reply was to you and you read it so that's fine. It doesn't matter to me that it's not there for public perusal. No problem... |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Many thanks, Mike. |
||
|
oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi Brad! More or less back alive. Some people have this weird notion that poetry "should" be obscure and rife with the indecipherable. Can't tell you how many times I've suggested "why don't you just say what you are saying!" In 1972, I wrote a 460 manuscript page novel without a single metaphor (similes, yes, metaphors, no.) Portions were published. Novel wasn't. Maybe clarity is too avant garde. Great poem, highly sophisticated! Best, Jimbeaux |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
