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Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

0 posted 2007-08-22 10:30 AM

Hi all, I'd really appreciate it if you guys took a look at this. I've gotten positive feedback from it, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. Tell me whether you like it or not but mostly I want to know how to make it better and more coherent. Remember, I strive to write New American Poetry and free verse; so don't even bother looking for meter and rhyme because I didn't bother to put it in. If you don't like free verse, then you won't like this. Thanks in advance.

(Original)

A Mass of Bubbles

Frothing teeth chipped away
by chattering too harshly
towards other speakers
that can’t register sound;
but rather yell out
specific jeers at the
vim and dash of those awful
cheering sections
composed of mindless
people who can’t stand
to hear anything but pleasures
and strokes of sweet talk.

Bowling for turpentine,
knocking down pins made of
coniferous trees
on floors of polished pine.
They gift wrap them
to rip and reopen their stomachs,
sew ‘em up again with
svelte strands of apology letters,
terrible surgeries
that only attempt to
mask their crimes.

They hold open their wallets
wanting pennies for
the price of dollars.
Waiting for dead things
to grow mold and decompose,
and die all over again
in the name of being
excessive.
I can’t stand it anymore,
mostly because I ran out
of legs a long time ago,
after I learned how to
walk away from things
nobody likes.

(Revised)

A Mass of Bubbles

Bowling for turpentine,
knocking down pins
made of coniferous trees
on floors of polished pine.
Gift wrap them
to rip and reopen their stomachs,
sew ‘em up again
with svelte strands
of apology letters,
terrible surgeries
that only attempt to mask
all these crimes.

Hold open your wallets
wanting pennies
for the price of dollars.
Wanting dead things
to grow mold and decompose,
and die all over again
in the name of being
excessive.
I can’t stand it anymore,
mostly because I ran out
of legs a long time ago,
after I learned how
to walk away from things
nobody likes.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

[This message has been edited by Edward Grim (08-24-2007 11:23 AM).]

Allysa

Senior Member

since 1999-11-09

Posts 1952
In an upside-down garden

1 posted 2007-08-22 02:38 PM

Mr. Grim, sir-

Although I do not comment frequently, I enjoy reading this forum, and have thus decided to respond to this piece. It is very likely that I am insane, so bear that in mind when reading my comments.

Alright, so

- "Bowling for turpentine,
knocking down pins made of
coniferous trees
on floors of polished pine."

- "I can’t stand it anymore,
mostly because I ran out
of legs a long time ago,
after I learned how to
walk away from things
nobody likes."

Those are the two sections that I enjoyed the most. Not entirely sure why, but the line "bowling for turpentine" caught my eye, made me maximize my window, and actually read and reread this piece several times. The end really held it for me, if not because I can completely relate and understand it, but because I believe it's a good summation for the rest of the poem.

The first part I quoted here, I enjoyed not only because it's a great collection of images, but because they all fit together. The terpentine, the image of trees, and polished pine, they all compliment each other very well. Kudos for pulling that all together, and without it feeling forced.

My only problem with this: The second stanza holds me solidly, the third stanza holds me solidly, the first stanza not so much. The opening image is very good and strong, but it didn't hold me as I continued to read the rest of the stanza. More that I was reading and thinking of the "Frothing teeth chipped away/ by chattering too harshly" and then caught up by the "people who can’t stand/ to hear anything but pleasures/ and strokes of sweet talk," but lost somewhere in between. If I reread it a few times, I get the image that I think you are going for, but that's only upon reviewing it, and it's not something I grasped during my first read through.

Then again, it is possible that I just stumbled a bit.

Regards,
Allysa

moonbeam

Member Elite

since 2005-12-24

Posts 2356

2 posted 2007-08-22 03:36 PM

Good comments from Allysa, which I agree with.

I liked "svelte strands of apology letters" a lot. Most of the rest of the poem was a bit prosey for my taste and the line breaks on prepositions and a definite article quite extraordinary to someone as conservative as moi.

There were so many of them I can't help feeling that it must be a part of the "style" of poem you write, but for the life of me I can't see how such linebreaks add anything. Rather, they appear as missed opportunities imo.

M

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

3 posted 2007-08-22 05:15 PM

Allysa, thanks for the comments.

I have to say that I'm surprised at which stanzas you liked. I thought S2 would be too vague for people to get, but I'm glad you picked up on it. I like having little inside references in my poems like the "bowling for turpentine" line. Turpentine is actually an oleoresin derived from coniferous trees, especially the pine tree. And the reason I said:

quote:
Bowling for turpentine,
knocking down pins made of
coniferous trees
on floors of polished pine.

...was to show how we use our own attitudes, issues and problems against ourselves, how we betray ourselves. It's pretty much just a comment on self-destructiveness. I'm glad you picked that up.

I do agree that the first stanza doesn't go well with the rest of the piece. That's a problem of mine; I never stick to one topic in my poems (ADD I suppose). I usually like to portray several different things that add up to be generally the same idea.

The first stanza tells about people who can't tolerate anything bad or negative directed towards them (perhaps a person who cannot take critique, lol). And that's what "I can't stand."

Do you think I should nix S1 or is there possibly a way for me to make it more clear or more appropriate for the piece? I shall definitely rework S1. Thank you very much.

Moonbeam,

quote:
the line breaks on prepositions and a definite article quite extraordinary to someone as conservative as moi.

Much to my chagrin, I did not realize that that was looked down upon. Do you think that if I change my line breaks, it would work better?

quote:
There were so many of them I can't help feeling that it must be a part of the "style" of poem you write

Well, I did say that the style I lean towards is New American Poetry (Ginsberg, Kourac, Burroughs, Corso etc.) Have you ever read any of them?

quote:
but for the life of me I can't see how such linebreaks add anything.

I've always been under the impression that line breaks can really never "add" anything to the piece. I've always focused on what was written. Perhaps I should pay closer attention to words I end my lines with, heh.

quote:
Rather, they appear as missed opportunities imo.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Thanks for the help.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

moonbeam

Member Elite

since 2005-12-24

Posts 2356

4 posted 2007-08-22 05:52 PM

Ed

(in a hurry sorry)

Yes I've read all of them.

Lines and line-breaks. One of the most important tools in poetry! Some would say the thing that makes poems poems.

This article is good:
http://www.ualr.edu/rmburns/RB/levline.html

But there's lots of other stuff on the net.

The effects and uses you can make of lines and line ends and beginnings to enhance your poem are multiple. Without being able to use them you are writing with a serious handicap.

M

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

5 posted 2007-08-24 11:25 AM

I wouldn't say it's "a serious handicap," but I see your point.

Revised version up top. Let me know what you think. Thanks a lot.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

6 posted 2007-08-24 12:50 PM

How in the world did you manage to edit your first post two days after posting it?

It is helpful to have them both in the original post like that.

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

7 posted 2007-08-24 01:37 PM

I believe the limit is three days, Ess.

Yes, that's why I included the first version in the post.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

moonbeam

Member Elite

since 2005-12-24

Posts 2356

8 posted 2007-08-24 04:36 PM

quote:
I wouldn't say it's "a serious handicap,"

No, perhaps not in this poem. I was speaking generally.

Best.

M

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

9 posted 2007-08-24 05:05 PM

Well, what do you think of the revision? Better? Worse? Just a bad poem no matter what I do? lol. I really do want to know.

Thanks Beam

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

10 posted 2007-08-26 05:05 PM

You have some really interesing stuff here that doesn't quite add up. As you mentioned above, what about writing three disjunct images and letting them stand on their own? The problem may be that you haven't quite decided on a structure yet.

It's an idea.

Two more quick points:

1. Bowling for Turpentine/Bowling for Columbine -- this cannot go unnoticed. Perhaps make the connection more direct?

2. I don't really like the use of the imperative here. Go third person unless you have a good reason to order people about!

Still, some very strong points (probably the best one of I've read of yours so far.)

ChristianSpeaks
Member

since 2006-05-18

Posts 396
Iowa, USA

11 posted 2007-08-28 08:51 AM

quote:
Wanting dead things
to grow mold and decompose,
and die all over again
in the name of being
excessive.
I can’t stand it anymore,
mostly because I ran out
of legs a long time ago,
after I learned how
to walk away from things
nobody likes.

That's pretty incredible, Ed.

Dane

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

12 posted 2007-08-29 12:18 PM

Thanks for looking at it Brad, I'm glad you find it interesting; I consider that a real compliment.

quote:
As you mentioned above, what about writing three disjunct images and letting them stand on their own?

Well, I wouldn't say that I wrote three totally different images. Think of it more as three different perspectives of the same thing. It's not clear, is it? I'm trying to be more lucid in what I write.

quote:
Bowling for Turpentine/Bowling for Columbine -- this cannot go unnoticed. Perhaps make the connection more direct?

Yes, I did have Bowling for Columbine in mind when I wrote that, not so much the movie, but the event itself.

Obviously the incident at Columbine was a massive school shooting (students shooting students). And as I mentioned before,

quote:
Turpentine is actually an oleoresin derived from coniferous trees, especially the pine tree.

So knocking down pins made of trees on floors that are also made of trees to win something that is also made from those trees (turpentine) is a message about selfsame components working against each other (such as, students against students). I suppose it's a commentary on the intricacies of inner turmoil, like I said when I wrote:

quote:
to show how we use our own attitudes, issues and problems against ourselves, how we betray ourselves. It's pretty much just a comment on self-destructiveness.

So do you think it's too vague?

quote:
I don't really like the use of the imperative here. Go third person unless you have a good reason to order people about!

Well, if you look at the original version, it was in third person. But I found the use of "they" a little whiny, heh. I'm going to fix it. Thanks Brad

Thanks Dane, I appreciate that.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

13 posted 2007-08-29 12:19 PM

Here's the newer one:

A Mass of Bubbles

Bowling for turpentine,
knocking down pins
made of coniferous trees
on floors of polished pine.
They gift wrap them
to rip and reopen their stomachs,
sew ‘em up again
with svelte strands
of apology letters,
terrible surgeries
that only attempt to mask
all these crimes.

We hold open your wallets
wanting pennies
for the price of dollars.
Wanting dead things
to grow mold and decompose,
and die all over again
in the name of being
excessive.
I can’t stand it anymore,
mostly because I ran out
of legs a long time ago,
after I learned how
to walk away from things
nobody likes.

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