Evolution Haiku #1 - pipTalk Forums

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Roysie
Member

since 2007-08-05

Posts 102
Canada

0 posted 2007-08-08 09:07 AM

           Lost in the forest
         the sun rises in the sky
           directing me home

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

1 posted 2007-08-09 02:16 AM

This worked for me.

A breath of fresh air.

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

2 posted 2007-08-09 06:34 AM

I like the concept in this but my personal taste makes me wish it was a bit tighter.

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

3 posted 2007-08-09 09:25 AM

quote:
personal taste makes me wish it was a bit tighter.

Please explain.

Roysie
Member

since 2007-08-05

Posts 102
Canada

4 posted 2007-08-09 10:14 AM

You know I should not post from memory. Here is my little set of Haikus or Senyarus or whatever:
#1   Autumn's chill requires
   A love lit glowing fire hence
     Springtime's bold desire

#2    Lost in the forest
    The sun rising in the sky
      Directing me home

#3      Old man sits content
     While his wife prepares some food
        Both happy at last

Coda    I offer you three
     Boxes that you will enjoy:
      Which one would you like?

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

5 posted 2007-08-09 11:51 AM

As an example of what tighter means to me, consider these two translations of a Basho haiku. To me the first one is tighter, more concise yet perfectly clear. It has all my mind needs to grasp the inference, set the scene.

Ah, summer grasses!
All that remains
Of the warriors dreams

Here where a thousand
captains swore grand conquest
Tall grasses their monument.

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

6 posted 2007-08-09 12:12 PM

I think "in the sky" may be done away with, since that is naturally implied in referring to the sun.

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

7 posted 2007-08-10 08:49 AM

That works for me, Essorant. Being freed from the constraints of 5-7-5 is often like opening a window in a stale, musty closed room to let in breath of fresh air.

moonbeam

Member Elite

since 2005-12-24

Posts 2356

8 posted 2007-08-10 02:10 PM

This worked for me.
A breath of fresh air.

Please explain.

viking_metal
Senior Member

since 2007-02-02

Posts 1337
In a Jeep, Minnesota.

9 posted 2007-08-10 03:38 PM

This worked for me as well.

-paul

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

10 posted 2007-08-10 06:50 PM

Well, I had a little free time at work and was reading a number of poems that I found stilted, boring, and unmoving.

Is that the same thing three times?

Then I turned on this one.

The first two lines set up the third in a very interesting way. The use of 'in the sky', to my mind, plays with phrases such as 'pie in the sky' and sets the reader up to expect a whimsical rhyming poem. This is shattered by the final line leaving the reader with precisely the pivot, the shift in view, that good haiku often produce.

Thus, the theme and style work well together.

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

11 posted 2007-08-10 10:15 PM

The title and the opening line don’t sound like the lead-in to a whimsical rhyming poem to me. To me there was more of a philosophical or spiritual tone.

Would be interesting to hear from the poet just what his reason was for using the “in the sky” phrase. Was it to meet the 7 syllable criteria or was he really trying to be pie in the sky whimsical? I’d really like to know. Roy, would you care to enlighten us?

Professor Gloom
Member Elite

since 2000-07-23

Posts 3082
of Depression

12 posted 2007-08-11 01:29 AM

#4
Falling down degrees
Summer squash rises to warm
Then wordless spooning

The haiku is a form most find easy, lack of rhyme and easy count. Which is why I teach it to the youngest students, but many don’t understand that the form is a response format which evolves by addition from other poets. The Tanka is another format of the same response nature in Japanese writing, but instead of another Haiku, a couplet is inserted.

Gloom

ChristianSpeaks
Member

since 2006-05-18

Posts 396
Iowa, USA

13 posted 2007-08-11 09:08 AM

Question: I thought that Haiku was pretty rigid - 5-7-5 rhyme at the end of L1 and L3. Is that not true? What are the variations?

Dane

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

14 posted 2007-08-11 09:14 AM

CS,
Take a look in longte's "Haiku???" thread!

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

15 posted 2007-08-11 09:23 AM

Hi Dane

Here's a link that might help those just beginning the journey:
http://www.haikuworld.org/begin/mdwelch.apr2003.html

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

16 posted 2007-08-11 08:18 PM

Professor Gloom mentioned tanka. For anyone interested in reading modern Japanese tanka I’d like to recommend Modern Japanese Tanka edited by Makoto Ueda. You can take a peek inside the book at Amazon. Here’s the link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0231104332/forestsofcali-20

For senryu, check out Light Verse From the Floating World also edited by Ueda.

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

17 posted 2007-08-12 12:23 PM

Both of the books I mentioned above have the original Japanese as well as an excellent English translation. There is also some historical information that's really quite interesting.

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (08-12-2007 12:56 AM).]

ChristianSpeaks
Member

since 2006-05-18

Posts 396
Iowa, USA

18 posted 2007-08-12 09:18 AM

Thanks Jennifer and Ess

Always learning

Dane

Roysie
Member

since 2007-08-05

Posts 102
Canada

19 posted 2007-08-13 12:46 PM

Well I've been a little preoccupied on the open board (to say the least) but I'm so glad my set evoked a little thought. The set is about life and it's many phases. I usually like to bite off more than I can chew but hey it's fun. #2 is about redemption of course and how many find it to be an integral part of their existance. No...rising in the sky...was not meant to be whimsical because it's an allegory of Christ and where would one look for him? In the sky or in my case..right here beside me as always.

Roysie
Member

since 2007-08-05

Posts 102
Canada

20 posted 2007-08-13 12:56 PM

ALSO Jennifer I know exactly what you mean about tightness. Just a syllable can strongly affect a Haiku. Hence my comment on posting from memory rather than pulling the piece up. I think rising rather than rises is tighter.

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

21 posted 2007-08-13 02:33 PM

quote:
Well I've been a little preoccupied on the open board (to say the least)

Now now now, don't set fires then complain about the flames; it's called 'cause and effect' my dear friend.

My outlook on haiku is very similar to Gloom's. It takes the least amount of writing possible to do one. Yes, there is good haiku and bad haiku but it's still three lines nonetheless. It's just a personal dislike I suppose. Yours aren't that bad though, for haiku I mean.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Roysie
Member

since 2007-08-05

Posts 102
Canada

22 posted 2007-08-13 03:51 PM

I know what you mean actually. I'm not a big fan. I've read some so called great haikus or haiku if that's the plural and they left me cold. It's all about power in the least amount of verbage and if many spend their whole lives composing one or two there must be some good ones out there somewhere. They are fun to write though.

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

23 posted 2007-08-13 04:28 PM

Yeah, the closest thing to haiku that I enjoy reading are little bits of doggerel verse.

Haiku, true,
is a nobler pursue,
but doggerel verse
isn't nearly as terse.

"Celery, raw
Develops the jaw,
But celery, stewed,
Is more quietly chewed." - Ogden Nash

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Roysie
Member

since 2007-08-05

Posts 102
Canada

24 posted 2007-08-13 04:37 PM

Haiku is great
It's like a first date
You admire the food
But you can't touch the plate.

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

25 posted 2007-08-13 04:58 PM

Haiku,
five, seven and five,
I’d rather not strive
for trois little lines.

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

26 posted 2007-08-14 09:00 AM

I've always wondered why people who really don't like or seem to understand haiku try to write them. Seems like a waste of time to me and floods the forums with some really bad poetry. Oh well.

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

27 posted 2007-08-14 10:23 AM

Well, I hope you're not referring to what I wrote; because those little jottings weren't haiku, they were doggerel, haha. I have absolutely no desire to write haiku or even read it for that matter. At least, I've never read one that was worth the read.

Yes, I see what you mean though. But understanding haiku isn't exactly like understanding trig, it's pretty basic if you ask me. Who knows, I'm probably wrong, heh.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

28 posted 2007-08-14 12:18 PM

No, Ed, I wasn't putting down your poems. It was just an observation after having read the thread.
I think haiku is sort of an acquired taste. Unfortunately there's so much bad poetry being passed off as haiku that people are soured on the genre before they really give it a chance.

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

29 posted 2007-08-14 12:27 PM

quote:
No, Ed, I wasn't putting down your poems

hahaha! God no! I don't know if you've ever read my stuff, but those little things I wrote were NOT poems. I was just playing around with Rosie, heh. I don't write like that... ever, not even in that style.

quote:
Unfortunately there's so much bad poetry being passed off as haiku that people are soured on the genre before they really give it a chance.

Yeah, maybe you're right. You know what, I'll try and find some good haiku on google or something. Give it another chance.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

30 posted 2007-08-14 12:35 PM

You'll need to put on your sensitive male hat, take a deep breath and eat a broccoli floret before you begin. Women can't resist a man who can recite a few good haiku. LOL I"m overtired and going to bed. Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just messing. Have a great day!

Edward Grim
Senior Member

since 2005-12-18

Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

31 posted 2007-08-14 12:42 PM

Hahaha, hey I'm a sensitive male. And besides, most men use one liners to "pick up" ladies. I just don't like using "three-liners," hahaha.

And I really do hate broccoli.

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