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The Greatest 20th Century American poet.
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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The Greatest 20th Century American poet. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
The Greatest 20th Century American poet. Eliot and Ezra Pound Sowed their seeds in fertile ground. But I will bet you, odds or evens, The best of all was Wallace Stevens. |
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| © Copyright 2007 Jim Aitken - All Rights Reserved | |||
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viking_metal Senior Member
since 2007-02-02
Posts 1337In a Jeep, Minnesota. |
A charming little piece, one that I cannot truly critique. However, I did indeed enjoy it. The title doesnt exactly roll off the tounge though! Hah! Valedictions, -Paul |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Wallace Stevens, Wallace Stevens - how I've struggled with Wallace Stevens! It's a love/ hate thing for me. When I want to hide in the shadows, I post haiku. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Yup, Stevens can be a bugger, but at least he's an approachable bugger. Did my thesis on his "An Ordinary Evening In New Haven." so now I are a Master. Uh huh. Troublesome or not, "Peter Quince at the Clavier" and "Sunday Morning" are gemstones. "The Collected Works" is the motherlode. Jim |
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sampo Member
since 2007-02-25
Posts 54oz |
ocean, being an eliot man myself, i will not dispute your preference. we all have one, i would however like to see - they sowed their seeds in fertile ground, line attached metaphorically to your - best of all, line. eg - best of all that bloomed, all that flowered, reaped, etc. you get my drift. regards, sampo. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Aw, sampo. Eliot-people dispute everything. That's their job. Reasonable critique, though. Thanks, Jim |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Stevens is a bugger. In many ways, I'm still waiting for him to 'click' for me. Don't get me wrong, 'Sunday Morning' is great, but I read somewhere that the "Emperor of Ice Cream" was his favorite poem. And that one frustrates the hell out of me. I'd probably go with Eliot (I reread him much more). A few years ago, I would have said Hart Crane, but we shouldn't leave out Auden -- especially these days. Though I also admit to a somwhat uncanny preference for poets on that little island across the pond (Or in my case both ponds). |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Brad -- On Stevens' preference for his "The Emperor of Ice Cream," a poet can be his own worst enemy... But hey, he's talking about his own stuff, so who can dispute? Stevens can sometimes seem passionless or dry. I don't think he is, but that's me. Again, for me, "An Ordinary Evening in New Haven" is pretty much Stevens' being his most Stevens'-like. Dry as dust on first glance, but roiling just beneath the surface. The sort of poem as I suggested elsewhere, that invites you in... No problem going with Eliot, Pound, or Auden. The notion in my bit of nonsense is that the selection a "Best poet" is a jape. That's why it's a lightweight quatrain, not a textual analysis. And for what it's worth, I think Stevens has a strong connection with your friends across the more Pacific pond. I see an interesting connection with your appreciation of both Eliot and Auden. One was an American-Anglo, and the other an Anglo-American. Maybe it helps to get out of one's given skin to find the skin you're supposed to be in. Seems to be working very well, for you (and yes, I've gone through the submissions for your last two years posts.) In my own way, I try it too. I've given up on being intelligent for for short forms that are somewhat relevant. In these times, as during WW's I, II, Korea, and Vietnam, it doesn't hurt to go back to Wilfred Owen, either, another islander, who's "The Naming of Parts" is perhaps the quintessential plaint of a soldier cursed with a brain. On your current side of the pond, there's a saying, here paraphrased: "If you see the Buddha by the side of the road, kill him." To shift the context slightly, I offer: "If you become enamored of your own work, burn it." The "you" is you-niversal. not meaning you, Brad. I've also read your post on why reading poetry on this and other forums resembles treading water in a swamp. Three possibilities: 1, Most poetry is dreck by definition. For obvious example, why do we still read Shakespeare and not Marlowe or the host of other Elizabethan scribblers? 2. Most poster's posting in PIP have the notion that if you just break something up into lines, it is therefore a poem. A function of failed education. 3. Posts to Critical Analysis are meant to be in the form of "constructive critism" a euphism for friendly blather. Now, if somebody posts either a 50 line or 3 line blivot, there's a temptation to say, Ah, go slit your wrists and be done with. But this doesn't offer much in the way of analysis of friendship. Who, given that there are lives to be lived an so on, has the time to "anylyze" 50 lines that stink? That's why there seem to be a lot of "nice try" sort of comments. And Lordy, poem submitters get defensive! Certainly don't want that happening in a community of friends. I think reading in the forum is like diamond mining. 100 tons of earth per carat. Maybe the best post is no-post, with the occasional munch on a carat. Thanks, Jim Stevens is a bugger. In many ways, I'm still waiting for him to 'click' for me. Don't get me wrong, 'Sunday Morning' is great, but I read somewhere that the "Emperor of Ice Cream" was his favorite poem. And that one frustrates the hell out of me. I'd probably go with Eliot (I reread him much more). A few years ago, I would have said Hart Crane, but we shouldn't leave out Auden -- especially these days. Though I also admit to a somwhat uncanny preference for poets on that little island across the pond (Or in my case both ponds). |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Brad, an addendum. Apologies for grammar and spelling errors in last post. I hit submit instead of edit. Also, I think I was lapsing into academics here and there. Robert Burns is my favorite poet from another era and the other isle. The man collected songs, wrote satires and polemics, and opened his veins in love poems. Not bad for a farmer. Jim |
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Aurelian Member
since 2007-03-20
Posts 109TX, USA |
Bah! Heretic! Bring the wood and straw! (All in good fun - I'm an Eliot man myself) |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Anyone who even bothers to read Eliot has my complete admiration. In fact, anybody who bothers to read ANYBODY has my complete admiration. Except you, of course. (the last bit, like the poem, is a joke.) Best, Jim |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
love to read this. more please! Tomtoo |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
I’ll bet any man From any land Any amount That he can count That Kipling would win With a quick recount |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Kipling? Do you think he's unjustly neglected becaused of "White Man's Burden"? I don't know. I do know that Said, not someone you'd normally think of as a Kipling admirer, has said some very nice things about him. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
If wider nets were flung instead To dredge the earth and wake the dead One self destructed name must rise To raise a glass and steal the prize. No doubting, Thomas hacked the sapling tree that held his taste and caused the very boughs to crash and break that bore his fame, Whose own life blood surged deep within that vine, into that cup, that blessed and cursed his name. A man of words who reaped the readers ears with imagery, who harvested such praise yet such disdain fell as the corn. Laid flat by cheers blurred in a mocking voice, yet in his sullen art was not forlorn. On soil away from valleys and from woods a poet died. Sad oaken box marred with their knotted praise and his excess. Free to become the weaver that he was a genius in words and nothing less. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Grinch: He should be praised. If I had read The Anglo Lads, I might have raised His name instead. But yikes, it was enough for me To tackle American poetry. There was no lack of promise Or accomplishment with Thomas. I just tend to focus Within a smaller locus. Whistling. Jim  |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Chopsticks: Kipling would have a difficult time being nominated at "The Greatest 20th Century American Poet," the title of this thread. He was an Englishman. Jim |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
In truth, soft whispered, from my lips, On tip of tongue and fingertips, The list of kings that my breath blew Ranked Stevens there among the few. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Ocean, you are right as usual. I’m so embarrassed , I didn’t read the fine print. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: quote: I found this puzzling. As I recall, he was much harder on Camus than he was on Kipling. I can't say I was ever convinced of his contrapuntal readings of either author. But I suppose that discussion is for another forum. Jim (oceanvu2): Can't say I'm a big fan of either Elliot, Pound, or Stevens. More a fan of Cummings these days (I'm a glutton for punishment). Jim |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
JimB, What do we disagree on? I think you're right. PS Cummings is not worth my time. The other guys are. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: quote: You're the best judge of that. I assume we still agree on Pinsky. Jim |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Pinsky had a two liner in the Atlantic a few months back that I liked. |
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hunnie_girl
since 2006-06-18
Posts 2567Canada |
Ahhhh Jim, this poem really flowed off the tounge and into the mind.  Krysti |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Thank you Krysti. The poem is just a little joke, but it seems to have opened up some interesting discussion about the silliness people interested in poetry discuss. Best, Jim |
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