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The old sea captain
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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The old sea captain |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Cherry hot flames flicker on saturated sand. Radiating territorial claims on a patch of dry land. Perched on a log severed from its limb, sits a weathered old sea captain. Voyaged through every gale, trifling with the lock in Davey Jones locker. Holding a faded blue cap ragged in shreds, held together by a safety pin. He’s the counterpart of a headless body, huddling by dying embers, trapped in his final port, vessel drifted out to sea on mutiny’s tide. Drunken facaded senses dulled to the pricking blade. Swaggered off the ship, marching into waves slamming on the beach. Caught by his safety net threaded with smoke fibers and fire cords, \Waiting by his blackened coals, staring down the waves. Daring them to reach him, grip him in slippery salty digits, pull him to a quick end. Remnants of a spice encrusted on his collar, his stiff and antiseptic tunic sullied. A winner of an ad for Oxy, grimy with mushy sand particles. Bald head is a polished piece of gold, with smudges of whitening tufts of hair. Turning his defeated legacy as a Sea captain in to the master of the water. Engraving his title in the sand, spitting saliva letters. Stomping out what is keeping at bay the animals awaiting his old gnarled old body. Flaming torches twinkle out, as he let’s sleep take him. High tide grasping his bony form, fingers curled around his limbs, washes away the Old sea captain. ****************\ This has descriptiveness but everything else is rough. I have worked on this for a couple of days and can't make head of tail of how to bring it up. Any suggestions are welcome to make this interesting and actually worthy of all my readers here. |
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emy Junior Member
since 2006-11-04
Posts 32 |
Hi Rhia, I think the problem is that it's too descriptive. If this was mine I would delete all the adverbs and adjectives and try if strengthening the nouns and verbs if that would do the trick. regards, |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
THanks for the help. I might not do that as the final wording. But I am going to copy and paste my poem in a seperate word doc. and do that and see what comes out. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Emy's right, but not that it's too descriptive, it's where you put the description that's the problem. 'Cherry hot flames' 'saturated sand.' 'Radiating territorial claims' 'weathered old sea captain' 'faded blue cap ragged in shreds' Adjective noun combinations tend to weight lines in one direction. Don't forget there are other ways to describe in English -- relative clause for example. In a sense, expand the description and description won't be the problem.  |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
What do you mean? |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
What do you mean what do you mean? Try not to put too many adjectives in front of a noun. This doesn't mean you have to drop what you want to show, it just means you have to use a different structure to get there. "Cherry flames flicker, shadow the sand saturated with a brine that no longer carries a log, severed from its limb." Okay, that's pretty bad, but do you get the idea? |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Your description was mediocre in helping. But yes I understand better thanks. I have to mull over that and how I can change my poem to get there. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Did you forget how to count syllables? I think anything over ten syllables a line (without a poetic meter that is) is almost impossible to maintain very well in a poetic way. It is more out of the meadow of poetry and into the plain of heavy and awkward prose. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Whitman is unpoetic? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Yes he is poetic. So is Rhia. But they could both use better discipline when it comes to poetic structure. Such long lines without a poetic meter are heavy and awkward and are bound to be prosey. I think it takes away from the poeticness of poetry. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
What is the poeticness of poetry? To me it sounds something like opium makes people sleep because of its dormative power. I have no problems if you simply prefer a metered poem to one that is not, the only problem I see here is that you wish to objectify your preference. To call Whitman awkward is simply absurd. Overwhelming perhaps, but if your reaction to 'the song' is awkward, my only suggestion would be to read it again. You're missing out. Remember that the free verse revolution did not happen because people forgot how to do it (though there are times when it certainly looks that way today), it happened because iambic pentameter does get boring if read repeatedly day after day after day. While it's certainly true that a metered poem sounds incredible in a sea of sloppy free verse, it is also true that a powerful free verse poem explodes the heart rate amidst the deadening duduh of too many metronomes.  |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
Okay, if we are going to get into this conversation, then I feel it appropriate to enter this idea: Ess gave the idea that metered poetry must be formal in it's subject matter. That it should lack a conversational tone. What does everyone think of that idea. Must a formal construct require a formal tone? CS |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Of course not. I think, perhaps I'm wrong, but Essorant is simple reacting to the trend (can you call something that's been happening for well over 200 years a trend?} that poetry should be more conversational in tone. As far as subject matter, we can go back to Chaucer for less than formal subject matter. Let's put our cards on the table, shall we? If I have an agenda, my own personal reading tastes tend toward variety rather than one particular type. I'm all for conversational metrics and pyrotechnics, esoteric free verse, confessionals, neoformalist experiments etc. Let a hundred flowers bloom. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
True, there are places for it sometimes, but I think it is best when it is subordinated to a stronger eloquence and structural "achitecture" That goes for Freeverse and prosey "conversational" tone! Poetry isn't a modern telephone for loose and casual chitchat (even though loose and casual chit chat can be about poetic things). It's an art of all ages, distinguished by the strongest grace and eloquence, not just in content, but in the formality of the language in a strong and stable form. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Let a hundred flowers bloom." There might be room for a hundred flowers, if there weren't a billion weeds. |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
Okay so let's think about this. Poetry is as old an art as music. Can the formal nature of each be equitable? Sonata form can be traced back to the 1600's and found its hayday in the early classical period among the likes of late Bach, Scarlati, Mozart, Haydn etc... It consist of an ultimately usual ABA format. These were the great composers. But guess what! That general form is used today. You can see ABA as verse chorus verse. These sonata's were famous, Moonlight, Pathitique, etc.. Now, Hey Jude, Jailhouse Rock, Dude looks like a lady, and Hail to the Chief are all in ABA format - Sonata format. Can you call these works less impacting than the others? I would say that more people know of these works than those of the Classical period. So, where is the evidence that formal constructs must consist of formal language or subject matter? Written/Spoken word, art, and music are all inherently related so connect the dots and explain to me where the precident lies. CS |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
The evidence is that in poetry itself words/phrases/usages like "hey" "dude" "so cool" "you know?" "man, you should hear this" "she was like so hot", to use more obvious examples, rarely ever work in less formal spheres of poetry let alone achieve such richer and rhythmicer heights as fulfills a strong form of poetry. Poetry involves much better than many of the coarse, common, casual manners of a conversation that one may have on the telephone with his friend. Again, I don't think they may not have place EVER, but in the main, I think they are best when subordinated to eloquence and heightening the language with a strong and stable structure. What is unreasonable about that? People have more than enough room for free, laid back and informal conversation at coffeshops, telephones, cellphones, instant messangers, diaries, forums, etc. without trying to turn poetry into a clutter of chitchattiness too. [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-26-2006 12:59 PM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Is that a challenge? Hip hop isn't poetry? |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
But Ess, We aren't talking about "hey" "dude" "so cool" "you know?" "man, you should hear this" "she was like so hot". We are talking about something like Rhia's piece or the rewrite that I did of TOL's Pearls: /pip/Forum28/HTML/001719.html#17 I won't begin to say the AOL gibberish is acceptable, but something that you can read and not have to continually consult Webster has merit unto itself as long as it follows or clearly deviates from a form or accepted style. I will be the first to admit that when I started writing "poetry" I had not idea what I was doing. I got mad one night and wrote a bunch of stuff down breaking the line where ever I thought it looked right. Have I gotten better since then? You can decide, but I know more. I break lines with a purpose, I make meger attempts at forms, and I make every effort to lean on metaphor and conciseness in my writing. One day, maybe I'll say I'm a poet. Now, I'm just a writer who submits stuff online to people who like to do the same. |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Nicely said Christian. I think your better, you write well. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
All I may do is urge you to read more and cultivate your judgement from the tradition of poetry itself, with special attention to English poetry, because some traditions and manners are certainly not as successful in one language as another. There is certainly nothing morally wrong with choosing the less successful "path" of poetry. That's what I think freeverse and hip-hop are. They both have their virtues and are both indeed poetry, but they will never have the kind of fulltime virtue (when written well) as the poetry that uses a strong beat (that's what hip-hop often has and freeverse often doesn't), a strong and stable form (something freeverse and hip often don't do), good sentence structure and grammar (something freeverse and hip often don't have), a strong inclination to formalness, and tolerance of antiquity, old words and manners such as "thou", and even inverted lines (something freeverse usually doesn't accept), a strength of being proven in practice thro many ages of the language, not just only and mostly in the modern days and only dedicated to modern ways (something freeverse and hip hop don't really have). Freeverse and hip hop may truly be good sometimes, they will never be that good . |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
Ess- I think that there is something to be said when one has a conviction and states their view of that conviction clearly. This is what you have done and have done so without offending or being overly defensive. I thank you for your frank narration and do appreciate your view. I do not particularly agree with your view, but rather than tell you that I am right, I think it a better use of time to acknowledge that people gravitate to the form they are most comfortable with and simply enjoy the most. (That may not be a very good sentence, but you get the idea.) cs |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
By hip hop do you mean the dance form? |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
I think that hip hop was a blanket term for rap/r&b/urban etc. CS |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Ok thanks |
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