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kif kif
Member

since 2006-06-01

Posts 439
BCN

0 posted 2006-06-08 05:10 AM

Using games of imprisonment
around the softest of matters,
with feet so sensitive*, oh
damn this ability to adapt*!
Although Zeus is still to come,
anthos has aleady been!
This pouring familiarity* is not love,
these times are of Cronus and Iapetus.

*parts taken from Agathon's speech in Plato's "Symposium".

www.godchecker.com

kif kif
Member

since 2006-06-01

Posts 439
BCN

1 posted 2006-06-13 05:22 AM

Excuse me people, but this has been posted for ages, and no replies. Either no-ones read it, or nobody gets it. I posted this in the critical forum because I'm not into log-rolling, I want honest opinions. However, with the people I've commented to, surely one or two could comment back, if only to say 'rubbish!'...but I don't think this is that bad-I think this poem's quite good, actually! Tell me if I'm wrong...please?

ps; the 'godchecker' link's just there to support my use of Zeus. Don't let that put you off.

Skippyrick
Member

since 2006-05-16

Posts 150
Rohnert Park

2 posted 2006-06-21 04:44 PM

Hi again:

Not kowing much about the Gods you metion dose not take away from the poem. I like it the best of all of the others I read today.

It has a nice flow and like most of your others asked a question that need to be asked if not answered. And answers may come later.

Rick

kif kif
Member

since 2006-06-01

Posts 439
BCN

3 posted 2006-06-22 02:11 AM

Thanks, Rick. This is probably the most traditional thing I've posted here, although I couldn't tell you the structure...I tend to make a pattern out of a few lines, and run with it.

This is about familial strife. You're right. I have no answers, only questions!

YeshuJah
Member

since 2002-08-20

Posts 65
FL USA

4 posted 2006-06-22 10:47 AM

There's probably some profound notion in this poem but I don't get it; Indeed, I'm not even trying - and that has to do with a personal quibble of mine - Note 'personal' - Good writing in my opinion must communicate without losing the reader to opaque words and phrases- otherwise what's it written for? What, exactly, are you saying here that could not be rendered less obtuse?

YeshuJah

kif kif
Member

since 2006-06-01

Posts 439
BCN

5 posted 2006-06-22 02:22 PM

Yeshujah, if you don't try...In my opinion, poetry shouldn't be spelled out. If you did a bit of investigation, the references point to the meaning. If I made it 'less obtuse' or 'opaque', it would read like a diary entry.

"Using games of imprisonment, around the softest of matters" is about psychological bullying within the family unit.

"with feet so sensitive" is a reference to Socrates (he knows what love is, yet was made to commit suicide by his own society) "oh, damn this ability to adapt" is to show how these games can become normal.

"Although Zeus is still to come, anthos has already been" is to show that the bloom of youth has been and gone before potential for strength has been reached.

"This pouring familiarity is not love" is self-explainatory in relation to the rest,
and "these times are of Cronus and Iapetus" is an old Greek colloquialism, an insult to the old, traditional ways.

I understand that if you are unfamiliar with a work that's used as a referral, then it can appear undecipherable. Google's great for a quick information fix.

Hope this helps in your reading, and I do realise that referential writing's not for everyone.

ps:I'm not saying your opinion about the way things are written is wrong, I'm saying there are lots of rights too, and that doesn't change whether you personally like it, or not.

[This message has been edited by kif kif (06-22-2006 02:55 PM).]

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

6 posted 2006-06-23 10:06 AM

But can you really expect many readers to search through Google or any other reference to discover your intent? I think it more likely that most would just shrug it off and go on to something inherently more interesting.

kif kif
Member

since 2006-06-01

Posts 439
BCN

7 posted 2006-06-23 11:41 AM

You're probably right, Not A Poet, but I for one am into researching, especially references to other writings. Words, too, as sometimes the concise meanings are lost to sloppy uses and colloquialisms.

Some people like puzzles, some people don't. I thought by using a well-known piece, it wouldn't be so much of a puzzle, but I realise that most people don't have an Ancient Greek fetish, so I do agree with you. Yet, can this be read and understood without knowlege of the reference? If not, then it's pointless to most, which makes it mostly pointless.

Beau de L'air
Member

since 2006-08-03

Posts 105
Middlesex, England

8 posted 2006-08-03 10:48 AM

Kif, you see? You are a weaver.. I just adore this poem, "around the softest of matters" is yours? Clymene would approve. x Bdl' PS Godchecker???.... "Holy Coconuts", the Gods of Oceania????? Please...I mean. Do you think
I can send you a poem if I can figure out how it is done?

kif kif
Member

since 2006-06-01

Posts 439
BCN

9 posted 2006-08-03 12:24 PM

Thanks, Beau! Most of this one's just a selection of phrases I got from Symposium..."the softest of matters" references the brain, or 'the head'...or more precisely, how the head can be played with, through the 'victim's' inherent family values. I can't remember exactly, (my notes are asterisked as the poem looks above) I'll have to go back and read the speech again, but I think it's a paraphrase, or a cut and paste of more than one sentence, otherwise I'd have asterisked it. It reminds me of egg-shells.

I'm glad the references are inspiring to you! I'm sure you've already figured, I'll look for your stuff here.

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