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The Puzzle
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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The Puzzle |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
Anyone who thinks a poem has to rhyme, this is not for you! ------------------------ The Puzzle. Human would sit in shock had he realized That he had all spilled his pieces of his puzzle Called Identity, across the distant spaces. And would know it takes a genius; or much more, To attain one as distant as under his chair; There it lingers stagnant in the twelth dimension, Where miss Trauma smirked upon him; grasping it tight. ------------------------ The rythm is not a hunderd percent Trochiac, but I did try. Also, the thought and wit alone in this poem is important to me; more important that the rest. If you want to criticize, be honest, but if you have some bad things to say about it, don't over do it with your joy. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Well, in CA, you don't get to choose the nature of a critique on your work. Anything here is fair game, within the usual rules of propriety, of course. I don't have anything to say. |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
Fine, then just say what you have to say. All I really said was: Dont purposely (with sick joy) be an (edit)! So write what you wanted to write (with just that small request in your head; its not too hard is it?) if you want to. But anyway, thanks for that hint. [This message has been edited by Not A Poet (04-09-2004 09:01 PM).] |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
I already said I don't have anything to say. |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
Oh, right. I percieved it as meaning that you dont have anything to say if you would have followed my request, which means you were going to purposely be mean. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Does anyone have any ideas how to make this sound more like a poem, since rhyming is not a part of it? Right now its a free verse in Trochiac Hexameter. Question: Does anyone understand my thought in the poem? Just wondering. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Hi Croyles... Free verse means exactly that - free; it's unrhymed verse without a metrical pattern. So as it stands your poem isn't actually free verse at all. It's more accurate to say that it's blank verse (although that's usually found within an iambic pentameter metrical scheme). Blank verse means it doesn't rhyme. However, I would hesitate to say that you've used trochaic hexameter (effectively at least) because a: your trochees are inconsistent, and b: so are your hexameters - a line of six metrical feet? Given that your trochees are so confused, it renders the hexameters next to useless. As to what you're saying - I have absolutely no idea.  Now, that could be a good thing, or a bad thing depending on how you look at it. Either you're so incredibly witty that no one can understand you, or - you haven't get your message across in an effective way. Compared to the sonnets from Donne for example I'd have to go with the latter.Let's break it down now - how it reads at the moment: We have Human (representing all humans? Since he's a he - all human males? Representing one human, called Human?) sitting in shock because he's spilled his Identity (capitalised because...?) puzzle across a distant space. (What distant space, why? Are we talking space as in outer space, or a large paddock? The atmosphere?) Then it all goes really awry. Only a genius, or much more (more of what?) can attain a very non-specified distant 'one' from under a chair? (Well since the Identity has gone off to a distant place, are we now looking for Identity under the chair?) But, 'it' (the Identity? The 'one'?) is in the twelth dimension. Does this mean that the twelth dimension is under the chair? And to cap it all off, we have 'miss Trauma' smirking at Human, presumably holding the Identity, possibly under a chair in the twelth dimension... Hmmmm.. Nope. I don't get it I'm sorry. Wit relies on connecting with an audience. Wit, while clever, needs a response to make an impact. There is no impact here, or even cleverness because of the lack of clarity. I have a vague idea of where you're going - but a vague idea is not enough. You need to link your thoughts together in such a way that they make accessible sense. Hard to do sometimes, and be clever at the same time. How to make this sound like more of a poem? Either tighten up your meter or drop the meter and relax the lines.  K |
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Always Lisa Member
since 2003-06-08
Posts 133 |
Croyles, you don't seem to know what poetic devices you did or didn't use in your own poem. I only scanned over the first three lines for hexameter and they're not all hexameter. L1 is pentameter (If I take your words for it being Trochiac) L2 is weak, L3 is really messed up. Even if I consider what I believe whole heartily as being extremely weak stresses through out... I cannot say that this is Trochiac either. It's all so very weak. Your stresses should carry the reader and they don't. Now as to the poem itself, abstract was offered for these eyes and so I can only guess on your vision and my mind keeps going to some guy sitting in a chair with a limp noodle while he dreams of bondage. Go figure. Sometimes the author fails the reader, some times the reader fails the author and some times it's a bit of both. I'll let you decide as to how your poems fits into all that. Always Lisa [This message has been edited by Always Lisa (04-10-2004 09:52 PM).] |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
Maybe you guys have elephant ears, and you can actually hear the proper stresses for words. Hexameter, are six foots, a foot is a set of two syllables, whatever stress they may be, so in fact it is Hexameter; unless of course all the stuff that i read about poetry is a big scam and everyone else somehow managed to get info from incredible sources... The meaning: Human; representing all Humans (why would you think only male? Human is the word for Man and Woman, but the word was invented probably when there were a lot of sexism during that time), spilled all the pieces of his puzzle called Identity (another big hint), they spill across the distant spaces simply meaning the different areas of his room, as outer space is never mentioned as a plural, one; THE ONE (as you got confused about) is a piece of the puzzle that went under the chair that is hard for him to reach. "Genius, or much more". NO, that wasnt the line, the line was: "Genius; or much more", which so obviously means it would take someone more clever than a mere genius. Now why would someone have to be more clever to reach it might someone retarted ask? In fact, its a hint that this is not just a puzzle. We humans all live in four dimensions: It is said among philosiphers and scientists (a strange combination, I know) that there are twelve dimensions, where other parts of our selves are. The other dimensions are all around us, but we cannot perceive or conceive it; it is not in the human nature to do so. Now, as much as this is a very subtle hint, which only people who also read and heard about this would understand, it isnt exactly hard to imaging what i was trying to say with the line about dimensions; The point is, all of us do not truelly know ourselves. Now, this is where some of your IMAGINATION actually comes into play as a reader (if have any), miss Trauma (imagine her being a cat or whatever, that is unimportant as I have not even mentioned what her physical form is), dont you think that if we cannot be ourselves, wouldnt we be traumatized, even if just a tiny bit? After all, i think the fact that our selves might be in other dimensions has a big role to play in the many people who have Identity Crisis (we all do, but very few dont ignore it and actually become honest about it). Maybe I perceived poetry wrong, first of all, I didnt notice more than just a few words that arent Trochiac, and second of all, I thought poetry (especially in free and blank verse) was also left for your imagination to run wild, i always hated the poems that say something like: I am indeed very sad; my mum died along with my dad. But I dont know, as much as you didnt really like the poem, i grew attached to it (not anymore, of course), and maybe I could not see anything in an audience's point of view because of that. Thanks for all the critique. Croyles. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Hexameter: 'a verse line consisting of six metrical feet' SHOW us your consistent metrical feet, please, Croyles. Also, show us your consistent trochees - given that you did say (did you not?) that your poem is trochaic hexameter... trochee: 'a metrical foot of two syllables, the first long and the second short' quote: Personally, I think that depends on the individual. You know what Croyles, if you have a six line poem which takes 17 lines to explain, I think you've got a bit of problem. (please remember this is Critical Analysis and your poetry will be critiqued accordingly). |
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cynicsRus Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591So Cal So Cool! |
You have three lines in this that could not, regardless of how you may pull, stretch or contort them, be considered hexameter. These are lines: 1, 4 & 5. The reason for this is that to scan properly, you should be able to read the lines naturally. You can't simply will the reader to read the stresses where you feel they should be--you have enough syllables but improperly placed words with stresses in the wrong places. L1, has a total of 5 feet. You begin and end the line with a Dactylic foot: i.e. "Human would...", "...rea-lized" L4, also has 5 feet, and is sort of reversed--in that it begins with an anapest, but then ends with a spondee. L5, while being in fact trochaic, only has 4 feet. The bigger problem with this attempt is that all your lines are weak. And though most of them posses the proper number of feet, there is no consistency in the metric flow, overall, to draw the reader's attention. L1, should be consistently plural or singular--either "A human, or Humans--in either case it's a weak word. You'd be better off saying Man to more simply signify you mean The Human Race. L2, is weak in that it sounds childishly redundant--three pronouns referencing the same person. L3, makes no sense since it seems disconnected. L4: I'm not a fan of beginning a line with "and", and I'm sure many others would concur. L5: Though I appreciate a bit of paradoxical imagery--wnen it's well done, this is simply not. L6 & 7, are equally weak with dry abstractions that just don't sufficiently tempt the reader's curiosity. I've said this before, but I'll point it out again. If you need to post an explanation that is longer than the original poem by a factor of four or five, it has simply failed. Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
Why change the "Human" thing, its a nice idea to have it as a little kid or something. Oh by the way Severn, if you want to get annoyed than do that somewhere else, and if I somehow gave you the wrong message than sorry. But dont be such a like you are and say "Oh please, croyles, then show us your metrical foot", ease it down on the sarcasm, and if you havnt noticed, i did accept the fact that people were critizising my poem, i think it is you who misunderstood my message because you were OH SO expecting a fight. thanks a lot cynicsRus for your helpful critique. P.S My poem sucked, there i admitted it. P.P.S Oh an btw Severn, a Trochiac or Trochee is a metrical foot that is first a long OR stressed syllable, and then a short OR unstressed syllable. Hexameter, six metrical feet, 12 syllables, my first line doesnt have it but the rest do, cynicsRus maybe your right about the rest ill check it out. And again "If you have a six line poem that takes 17 to explain, you have a bit of a problem", why are you being such ? First of all my poem is 7 lines, and I thought if i did explain everything it wouldnt be very good, try and imagine what it would sound like Severn, it would be an article in a poem. There my poem was crap, and it was the first time i actually tried using any kind of metre, foot or whatever, seriously this whole syllable thing seems a lot more complicated than I thought at first; I accept that it didnt flow, dont get me wrong. And cynicsRus, im 16, if your expecting a 16 year old to have such sophisticated language maybe you should go to smart arse class. You sound like a dictionary, lol. Note: This response has been edited by a moderator to remove unacceptable words and personal attacks. [This message has been edited by Not A Poet (04-11-2004 10:33 AM).] |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Croyles, it is a requirement that we keep our comments civil. The simple fact of got a negative review does not entitle the author to step over the line. So please bear this in mind when writing and responding. Criticism is not always enjoyable for the author. Often there will be something negative. Accept or ignore those as you see fit. Even disagree if you feel it necessary. You may consider yourself on thin ice when you seem to be disagreeing with such a majority, however. In any case, you still must avoid the name calling and personal attacks. BTW, hexameter means 6 feet. This is definately not the same thing as 12 syllables. Further study may be in order. Pete |
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cynicsRus Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591So Cal So Cool! |
quote: No one here has more expectations of you than of any one else who wishes to post on this or any other critique forum: That he/she has come seeking genuine input and suggestions on how to improve a particular piece. Now, their willingness to listen, is aother expectation altogether--one not always realized. Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
personel attacks ey? words without swearwords in them can be just as offensive, and the fact was that Severn was also being out of order, not because he said he didnt like my poem (he didnt say that exactly), but because of the way he put some things, maybe the moderators should keep that in mind too, just for everyones good you know? So, I apologise and I will pay attention to my language in the future, and as I already said, I did accept it, didnt you read what I wrote? The thing about sophisticated language is that it wont sound right if your using it by defying yourself, otherwise what you said is true. P.S No more replies from people who have only just read the poem now; when all these replies were already there, I know what was good and bad about this poem, well, go ahead if you like. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Why not concentrate on the character looking for the piece? Has any of us doing a puzzle, discover a piece is missing, and NOT look? |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
(Whisper - I'm not a he. )The thing that I'm trying to get across to you is that you don't seem to be able to handle negative criticism. I know that it's hard to hear sometimes; I've been there myself. It takes time to learn how to hear it, and use it. What I don't like to see in this forum, though, regardless of age or attitude, is a poet rejecting critiques through sarcastic replies to those critiques - regardless of whether that poet has said 'thank you' at the end or not. Elephants ears? Smart-arse class? IMAGINATION (if [you] have any)? Can you see my point? The fact that you've had so many replies shows that there is an interest in your poem and potential has been seen in your writing. That's a positive thing. K |
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Always Lisa Member
since 2003-06-08
Posts 133 |
Croyles, you sure did a lot of defending your first attempt at meter. And you were asked to break down your meter so that we might better understand where it was you were coming from and or perhaps point out where you perhaps might be mistaken. Anything wrong in that? It's a matter of helping out your fellow writer even those he appears to have rode in on a very high and young horse. Like you, most of us are proud to show our stuff be it poetry or helping others to understand all those tools of the trade there of. Relax, none of us are a Poe or Browning but we are offing you our time and sometimes that time can be a wonderful gift for you and your writing. About stresses.... Some of us do have a better ear than others but yes, we do have an ear for them and so there are no maybe(s) about it. Your remarks on that tell me that your understanding of stresses is extremely young, plus it shows in your writing. Another thing ... your work isn't crap. It's another step up your gifted stair of learning. (In my view) you arrived in this forum with a strong confidant personality and it takes such a personality to improve your skills. And more... Your age means nothing to me. The only thing important to me is what you have to offer me the reader but since you brought up your age... I know of many teens that have a better grasp of gammar/vocabulary skills and poetic tools than I. You brought up your age like it was some kind of symptom or excuse. Be proud of what you do accomplish and make no excuses for what you have of yet to grasp. Being 16 means that you've breathed in a whole lot less breaths than I have, still, I hold you to the same standards as I would anyone who attempts any poetic form or tools of the trade. Your age is not a hinder. It's a state of being that has the same opportunity for potential as the next guy. Last but not the very least...Clearly from reading you, you've put in some work in grasping this art and or trying to grasp some aspects of it. Be proud of that but always keep in the back of your mind that sometimes you might not get what you think you do. Sometimes someone is going to come along on a higher horse and kick you to the dirt. Get back up, suck in your pride and write on. Always Lisa |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
thanks everyone, but as I already said, I respect your views, doubtless if I might at first have been offended or not, that was what I have been trying to write all along (apart from the first reply, of course). Well, thanks a lot guys! |
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