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February - Cinquain
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February - Cinquain |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA 
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Cinquain... Quintain... However you look at it - It's five lines of verse..  There are variations, of course (Silly poets think they can make their own rules)... Here are the basics, though...Cinquain Poetry A cinquain poem is a five lined poem. The first line consists of two syllables (the title). The second line consists of four syllables (describes the title). The third line consists of six syllables (states an action). The fourth line consists of eight syllables (expresses a feeling). The last or fifth line consists of two syllables (another word for the title). Winter Frigid snowfalls Covering all in white Cleansing our sullied earthen face Frosty Optional... For the braver poets among us... The Octosyllabic Quintilla is a rhyming form - But - It adheres to the constraints that there can not be more than two rhymes, nor two consecutive rhymes - So - The only possibilities are: abbab abaab aabab aabba Ya think??? We can do this..  A simile is as easy as pie But A metaphor is a piece of cake Nancy Ness |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Rhyming??? That sounds pretty risky to me. The "poetic envelope" in a cinquain is formed by the structured lines. Seems to me that if you rhyme it you'd be putting an envelope inside an envelope......wouldn't you be in danger of making it into a limeric? Oh golly, now I'll have to try it and find out! And of course there's a challenge in matching the form and subject matter. With those two syllables it automatically finishes BA-BOOM! That limits the choices a bit, I think.... |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
 ... What Ed Said... |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
I've moved this over from the "Let's Do Cinquain" topic, so all the "how-to" stuff would be in the same thread. Ye know, the cinquain form is very young. It's got about a century under its belt, having been invented by a poet(ess) who had discovered Haiku and wanted to create a new short, count-driven form that would be as effective. She didn't succeed in all ways, but there are also ways in which the cinquain can be more effective. It's a very hard-hitting format. With a poem this short, the writing has to be lean and strong. Every word, every syllable should be directed toward a single end. You're saying one thing, and saying it strongly. The short lines almost force you to make bold, compact images (usually a good idea anyway!), and use them to build toward that big two-syllable ending. Yep, "big" is the word, even though it's tiny. That small size means it has to be the poem's climactic revelation. There are lots and lots of rules about how to make 'em, most started by teachers who were using the form to teach grammar, believe it or not. Things can get stilted in a hurry if you try to follow too many rules at once. I like flexibility -- just can't seem to color inside the lines -- so I ignore any of them that don't suit me at the moment. Except the count. That's crucial and can't change without becoming something else. What I try to do is, grab the reader's eye with the boldest picture I can put into that short title line, then fill out the image, show something happening that (hopefully) creates a feeling and builds toward the climax. I finish with either an image that draws the reader back to the beginning, or with something open-ended, that tries to lead the reader on toward something that's not stated. If I actually accomplish three-fourths of that, I figure I did ok. If I only get half, well, I own it so I can change it. That's the joy of tweaking. [This message has been edited by Ratleader (02-07-2003 10:30 AM).] |
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Dr.Moose1 Member Elite
since 1999-09-05
Posts 3448Bewilderment , USA |
Nan, Well, I see I should have read this first, before posting my reply to Ratleader."Limited to two rhymes", as in only two words rhyming, or two words rhyming twice or thrice, or some combination of the above? Please elucidate, does this mean that... "Swirling puffed rings of smoke, the caterpillar spoke, when Carrolls' twirling pen did stroke again." would be incorrect in form or content? Doc |
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jjote Senior Member
since 2002-12-25
Posts 1088Ontario, Canada |
omigosh Nan, I posted my "cinquain" without having read this. guilty of being a silly poet..hehe *giggle* how about this: Cinquain a play of words by poets who're bored with rhymes or too lazy to tap their feet. Dat's me...  [This message has been edited by jjote (02-06-2003 09:44 PM).] |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Cute, jj.....! And accurate if I'm an example! I am indeed lazy, and I'm saved only by the fact that I love to edit. Give me something to rewrite and I'm a happy Joe. There be dividends in that! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Hi, Doc! This seemeth good unto me. I would never have thought to use the internal rhyme (swirling/twirling), but I like it. Can you come up with one for the final line? That would be poetic dynamite. I'd be performing sadistic acts on my rhyming dictionary right now, trying to come up with one! On the choice of topic, the only thing to remember is that if Haiku is seen as a dancer, Cinquain's a boxer. It's more direct, and its strength is in boldly leading rather than encouraging reflection. On rhyming, you've just demonstrated that flexibility works. I'd agree with Nan that two's likely the limit if you use rhyme, cuz you just don't have that many lines to work with. Internal though, that's nice..... but overall, you can use it or not use it, depending on what you think is right for what you're saying in the poem. Love to color outside those lines..... Speaking of which, I ran into an extended one that was written this way: 2 4 6 8 2 8 6 4 2 I bet the writer had fun just writing it! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Dr.Moose1 Member Elite
since 1999-09-05
Posts 3448Bewilderment , USA |
Ratleader, A challenge is as good to me as money in the bank(of which, I have very little), therefore, perhaps it's even better. Nan had mentioned some type of "octopus" thing, and now you have brought up another denizen from the deep.I will study both of these and attempt each, while striving not to appear too ridiculous in the process. You are obviously well versed in not only this form, but in many others as well. I look forward to this month as an educational bonanza! (can't ya just hear the theme song playing?) Doc |
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SmartChick Member Rara Avis
since 2001-09-23
Posts 7081On A Journey To The Unknown |
Ok, Miss Nan! I will attempt a cinquain. |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Hi, Moose --- Coming from someone of your caliber, that's a true compliment..... You are already adept with short stanzas and short lines with a lot of punch, so I think you'll find it natural after you get used to the shape of it. Lookin' forward to your stuff in this format too! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
...Isn't this FUN??... |
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Dr.Moose1 Member Elite
since 1999-09-05
Posts 3448Bewilderment , USA |
Nan/Ratleader, (Oh, that does not look right),anyway, to all,I recently found out that I must be a very, very, busy moose for the next two months or so. As time allows I will delve into the mysteries of cinquain, trying to capture it's essense, and portray both the forms of such which were mentioned here. Should I fail in this endeavor,(though highly un-likely),you may feel free to report me to the appropriate authorities. Doc |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Achtung! Hew Vill Write Zem! Vee Haff Vays Off Making Hew Visit Zee Verkshoph, Und Write Zee Poems! G'luck with the other stuff -- See you when you be able...... ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Paul Wilson
since 2002-07-07
Posts 4711United States |
Nan~ I am a little confussed. In your explaination of a Cinquain you said the first line was 2 syllables (the title) In my search I found the following by Adelaide Crapsey the poet credited with this type of poetry. In these Cinquain's the Title is not part of the poem. Could you explain? http://www.poeticbyway.com/xcrapsey.htm Could you help a dummy out and explain too me the following in more detail, like what is a and what is b The Octosyllabic Quintilla is a rhyming form - But - It adheres to the constraints that there can not be more than two rhymes, nor two consecutive rhymes - So - The only possibilities are: ababa abbab abaab aabab aabba Many Thanks Paul "To share my poems with you is to share my heart with you" |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Here's a repost of my answer to garysgirl, who asked about composition: It's pretty straightforward, but like haiku it does take a bit of practice to get confident with it (except for folks like Martie and DrMoose, who shazammed it on their first try).... Practically speaking, here's what I do -- of course all this is what I USUALLY do, what I aim for. It's different with every one, natch, and none of it is mandatory. Best rule is, do what the poem needs, not what the form needs. I start with a clear picture in my head of a single thing I want to say or describe. I go over words and phrases, looking for ones that make me go "Aha!" about it. When I've got that in my head, I write down the most striking pair of syllables that say what I'm going to talk about. It's most effective if I can come up with something that's highly visual, but not absolutely necessary. I couldn't do that in this poem, but it came out ok. Now I've got four syllables to expand on it and, if I'm lucky, show the reader a nice sharp picture. That can be a challenge, but if I wasn't able to do it at the start, I try really hard to do it here. Most often I've got a head start on it from my ruminations in the first couple of steps. Now it's time for action. Third line almost always shows something moving, changing, growing, a feeling being created, that kind of thing. That's especially important if I didn't have movement as part of line two. The eight syllable line comes next, and it's the best place to build toward the climax. If I'm talking about feelings, here's where I describe 'em and expand on 'em. If I'm talking about things, like I was in this one, here's where I put in extra details that get ready for the finish. Speaking of finish, I've got two syllables to work with, and that means the end has to be a KABOOM. I either tie it back to the beginning, or say something climactic that leads the reader to think more about what I've been saying, or something important that I haven't said: "A boat?? What? Why? Who would....." Now comes the most important step: Forget all this and GO WRITE. That's what really I do. You'll be surprised how naturally these "steps" just seem to happen, and the organization works out this way on its own. Ms. Crapsey designed it to work that way, and it does. She was one of the greatest experts on metrics and short verse who ever lived. |
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garysgirl 
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Nan, Ed and whoever sees this..... can the "cinquan" be written about any subject or is it like haiku and supposed to be written about nature? I just tried to write one with my favorite subject..."love" for my Love and it just doesn't look right. So, I didn't put it here. I think I did it like you said, though, Nan... First line....(2 syllables....title) Second line....(4 syllables...describing title) Third line......(6 syllables...action about title) Fourth line......(8 syllables.....a feeling about title) Fifth line......(2 syllables....another word for title)...can this one be two words? . This is my words for your explanation, I guess you can tell? . Thanks, Ethel |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Hi, Paul -- I noticed the same thing when I started working on cinquain, and I've gone to Ms. Crapsey's way of doing it. A poem needs a title, if only for indexing in a book, and it should be separate but descriptive of the whole composition. I think requiring those first two syllables to BE the title is a needless restriction. If nothing else, it would lead to confusion; how many poems would start with a two-syllable word, say, "Lovers" or "Moonlight," for instance. My poem "Dragonfly" ( /pip/Forum76/HTML/002946.html  is about that, not about "One wing," so I called it that, even though I thought those first two words were the best way to lead the poem. Looking back, I see that I wasn't bold enough to enter it that way when I posted it, although it's that way in my own files....Ratleader's human too!I think the title issue and maybe some others came up because the form is new and simple, and so people felt free to turn it to their own uses, or make their own alterations and adopt 'em as gospel. Now we have descriptions of the form that tell you how many words to use, that certain parts of speech have to dominate particular lines, things that just aren't needed and may work against you. Some folks say it has to be in iambic meter, and some that the last two syllables have to be a repeat of the first, etc-etc-etc. So, I try to write them the way Adelaide wrote them, and figure I've done well if I stay true to that. On the rhyming question: I'm a doofus when it comes to rhyme, so I'll leave it to Nan! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> ______________Ratleader______________ [This message has been edited by Ratleader (02-13-2003 03:19 PM).] |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Hey Ed, you posted the above reply while I was typing mine right below it...LOL |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Good questions, GG. Cinquain was designed to be the "American Haiku," but like the country, it doesn't place undue limitations on what you can talk about.... Ms. Crapsey wrote one about John Keats, I believe. The shape of it does make you be choosy about your topic though. It has to be something that starts and ends with a bang -- a strong and specific topic. I ran into exactly the same roadblock you did yesterday, on the same topic, and with the same result, alas... I'm going to try again though, with a specific thing that brings up the feeling. If you see something from me that starts out "Your eyes," or something like that, you'll know I did ok. Love's a very broad topic, so it's hard to nail down in 22 syllables! And remember, other than the syllable count, the "rules" are more guidelines than anything else. Those parts belong in any good poem, and cinquain seem to work well if they're arranged in that way, but as long as they're in there somewhere, it's fine to vary the order or mix things together. If it works, it works, and if you tweak it to fit a pattern, it might stop working! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
I won't be a chicken this time... This can't be as bad as islmatic perimeter can it? I spelled it wrong again, didn't I? the Wind is invisible. |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
Who's GG? the Wind is invisible. |
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Waterbirdfly Junior Member
since 2003-02-16
Posts 32China |
Now only a few people in China fellow the old raymen,a lots' modern poets finish their poems what form they want,such as Xichuan,Haizi,Shucai.......... |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
GG..... either a song by Pat Boone, or GarysGirl......let's hope for the latter! psst -- here's a little secret....I count the syllables on my fingers.....shhhhhh.... ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Welcome, Waterbirdfly! I love your name, because it makes me think of the moment when a heron spreads its wings to fly. You're right about following the old ways. Even the rules of Chess change if you wait long enough. That is especially true of the Cinquain form, because it's new. It was created less than 100 years ago. ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Justbleu Member Elite
since 1999-08-31
Posts 3329Oregon, Originally From Alaska :) |
Hi Nan I came in here and read this post and decided to try this....I posted my first Cinquain in Open titled Visions....I wanted to know what you thought. All of a sudden I think I'm into this formal poetry stuff. I even did a haiku... HUGS Bridgette |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
Dunno what Nan thought, but I've seen a lot of Cinquain, and my reaction was "Gee whiz, that's her FIRST?" You handled the form like you were born doing it. If you hadn't said it was your first attempt, I'd never have guessed it. Fear not, you've got this one nailed! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
grumble rhyme form *I* want to start coming in here and issuing freeverse challenges.. whaddya think Nan - reckon I'd get any takers?  K |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
......psst......do it! do it! do it! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Bridgette - I've approved you for posting in the workshop now... Special K... Bite your free-versin' tongue...  ...  |
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Justbleu Member Elite
since 1999-08-31
Posts 3329Oregon, Originally From Alaska :) |
Ratleader and Nan THANK YOU both!!!! Bridgette |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Now now Nan you just know that's an impossible suggestion for me to carry out... It's just far too flappy for me to pin down... I'm going to over-ride your forum bwahahaha... it'll be freeverse mania! |
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