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Jousting Forum?
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Jousting Forum? |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia 
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Do we need a Jousting Forum? Seems there is a proliferation of jousting in Open, perhaps, often misunderstood/misinterpreted? |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Surely you joust!  |
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Alison
since 2008-01-27
Posts 9318Lumpy oatmeal makes me crazy! |
laughs ... jest a little? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Methinks just us would be served.  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
What jousting are you talking about? (Serenity, that should be "we would be", not "us would be") |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Watt?  |
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effjayel Senior Member
since 2007-09-30
Posts 1474At the Crossroads of Infinity |
It would not be much fun playing with myself in an empty forum * Now, if it were a Boasting forum, Ron could make enough cash to retire to Florida if he charged admission.I can think of half a dozen of the older(but not wiser) peeps on here that would never be away.... * That brings a whole new meaning to that old adage of Nero fiddling while Rome burnt.. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Ess, If Karen corrects the grammar the pun is lost and “justice” wouldn’t be served. Midnitesun, Personally I think something should be done and a Forum dedicated to poetic duels or jousts sounds like a good solution to avoid misunderstandings. At the moment, especially after the recent “joust” I was involved in and the debacle of confusion that ensued, I’ve no idea whether jumping in on a joust will be accepted as light hearted banter or a personal attack - the language used is exactly the same it’s just the spirit with which they are delivered that separates them. In an on-line poetry forum where the only medium is words the intent behind the words can be easily misinterpreted. If the confusion between participants in a joust is a problem the confusion for the reader is an absolute minefield especially when that reader is a moderator, how does a moderator decide when a personal attack has taken place? Is this a personal attack? After one round with me you scrawny runt you’ll be in bed With both your arms in plaster casts and a bandage round your head I’ll pummel you until there isn’t any pummel left to pum Then you’ll be seen as you really are - a poor poetic bum. If Deer aimed this at Toe it’s an easy call, if a newbie aimed it at me is that any different? Supposing the newbie actually meant it, would I know the difference? Would a moderator? If I complained would it be removed regardless of the intent or spirit in which it was delivered? I think a Forum for “jousts” or “duels” is a good idea, perhaps a “I participate in duels” flag would make sense too. Either that or ban them completely as personal attacks regardless of intent. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Grinch? Thanks again for pointing out what should be obvious, and you always do so in a way that doesn't seem patronizing. Poetic duals are grand tradition--you probably can point out better than I, the English Romantics who answered each other in this very same manner. You've made me reconsider this idea. I'm accustomed to the older members and it's easier for me to follow, but if I were a newbie, I might mistake this for a hostile environment. I do know I was very skittish about my first foray into Pip. (How can y'not love this guy? I ask ya?) Sheesh  |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Karen, After the duel I had with xTr3m3sT I’m a bit skittish. When the moderators turned up I thought at first that he’d complained about my posts in that thread so I removed them but it turned out he hadn’t. Then I thought the Mods had reacted harshly towards xTr3m3sT believing that he’d attacked me personally, which I thought was unreasonable because I didn’t feel personally attacked at all - I took it as a bit of fun no different to the banter between Deer and Toe. Only later did I learn that the posts by the Mods was for the initial “challenge” by xTr3m3sT to all the members of PIP and some comments on other posts. It was very confusing and also a shame - I was quite enjoying that thread but it demonstrates how easy misunderstandings can occur and how difficult it makes the already difficult job of Moderating. (Do ya still love me?) [This message has been edited by Grinch (03-23-2008 05:09 PM).] |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Should I take that as a personal attack or a critique? *laughing*  See what I mean? He's not the least bit patronizing. Your poetry is beautiful. (*wince* I know how that hurts you--I'm sorry!) gleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And to address your concerns about that thread? Hey--I was looking forward to "breakfast"!  |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
By the time breakfast came Karen I was too busy trying to work out how I’d offended him. I then went through all my posts for the previous day and deleted any that could even remotely be taken as offensive. I even removed one post in CA in case it upset the writer which, on reflection, may have been a bit of an overreaction. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Have a hug, and some sympathy.  (forgive the smell, I've been writing again...) But yeah... I understand "skittish" all too well.  |
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effjayel Senior Member
since 2007-09-30
Posts 1474At the Crossroads of Infinity |
I suppose the casual observer or newcomer reading some of the recent posts in which I have been involved in could mis interpret some of the posts as attacks. Personally, I did not take any offence from things said either by my opponent nor indeed by someone not simply posting a reply but taking the opportunity to " jump on the bandwagon" & having a dig at me. If I had been upset / annoyed etc, I would simply have hit the e mail icon & made my feelings known. Of all the recent "jousts" that I have partaken in, I have had numerous email contact with the participants as soon as I have posted something with them being the subject of said post. We have also maintained off line contact during the postings & no bad feeling has been experienced by any one that was involved. Indeed, we all initially made contact via the email link & followed this up by emailing each other at our own personal email addys. I feel that I have developed a deeper more meaningful relationship with some of my fellow Pipsters through these posts that may possibly not have been the case were it not for the playful bantering that we undertook. Myself, I enjoy someone thinking about the topic & taking the time and effort to post a witty(?) poetic reply rather than the usual 2 line 'it was good, I enjoyed it' submission. Were there to be another forum for this kind of thing, I doubt whether I would visit it & partake as open in general takes up so much of my time as it is. Maybe we should preface these post with the kind of warnings to be found on packs of cigarettes, McDonalds apple pies & PG rated movies... |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Since I was the sole administrator who handled this yesterday, please allow me to clarify my reasons for moderating as I did. I began my day by finding a report in the moderator forum about the post being discussed here. When I read it, I found a thread that was full of potential violence, even threats to the lives of others. These comments may have been made with the intent of light-hearted verbal jousting, but they were not written responsibly enough to come across that way to our readers. Some comparison has been made to the bantering that Balladeer and Toerag write to each other. These two express themselves responsibly. Readers know that they are "playing" with their words. Not only would you never find such extreme threats coming from their pens, but Balladeer went so far yesterday as to issue a very clear and responsible warning to this young member. The proprietous line is drawn when: personal threats are made - violence is sanctioned - violence or illicit activities become graphic - AND - when respect for each other is breached. Which of these guidelines was surpassed here? My assessment was that ALL of them were - ergo, my decision to moderate as I did. I'm the first one to enjoy poetic "jousting," and I hope it continues on our pages for a long time to come. It makes our days far more enjoyable. We simply have to write responsibly. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Nan, As I said in my email yesterday - I didn’t read it as you did, I took it as a challenge to duel and, not being aware of previous actions or events elsewhere I happily obliged. That’s not to say you didn’t act correctly and in the best interest of the forum, it’s simply evidence that such posts can lead to misunderstandings. In this case most of them seem to be on my part, I saw the original post as a harmless challenge with language and threats no different from all the other posts kicking about on this site. My first inkling that something was amiss was when Balladeer arrived and issued his warning in that thread. Unfortunately as Mike referenced one of my poems to frame his reply I presumed it was one of my posts at fault so I posted an apology and deleted them all. It was only when you posted your reply naming xTr3m3sT that I realised that it was his posts that you had a problem with but even then I was still confused because I didn‘t take any of his posts as anything more than part of a duel and thought your post seemed a little harsh based on that thread alone. Your subsequent email yesterday clarified that your decision wasn’t based solely on that one thread but was a culmination of events elsewhere. I’ve no reason to doubt that the action you and Balladeer took was correct based on the information you had regarding xTr3m3sT’s intent , information that I wasn’t aware of when I replied to the original post. My misunderstanding sort of proves how difficult it can be to recognise intent. As I said it seems to me that it just makes the hard job the moderators do that much harder. |
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Dr.Moose1 Member Elite
since 1999-09-05
Posts 3448Bewilderment , USA |
Hey now, wait joust a minute. I firmly believe the system in place works fine as it is and that as fellow poets we're pretty well capable of policing ourselves. Problems are bound to arise anytime there is human interaction, hence the need for moderators. Problem? notify moderator, moderator makes judgement call based on set criteria, end of problem. I think you're all doing a wonderful job here and that a seperate forum would probably shrivel for lack of participation. Just my two cents worth. Doc |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
That is how you pun, Serenity (not at the expense of correct grammar).
I completely agree with this. [This message has been edited by Essorant (03-22-2008 03:10 PM).] |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Could someone, perhaps a Moderator, clarify the guidelines for conducting duels or jousts in Open? Perhaps that's all that's needed. For instance: “Personal attacks are absolutely forbidden!” according to the existing rules, are personal attacks within joust\duel threads ok? Can any member instigate a joust or duel with any other member? If not how do you instigate a duel? Are there any boundaries beyond which a post will be deemed unsuitable? If so what are they? Can any member join or jump into an existing duel or joust? Who needs to complain before such a thread is deleted, is it the target or simply another member that’s offended in some way? I’d like to participate, as I said I was enjoying the duel I was involved in, but at the same time I don’t want to breach the existing guidelines or offend anyone in the process. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Ess, Sorry to be pedantic but I think the comma in your last post is in the wrong place. If I'm wrong please ignore me. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Just keep doing what you are doing: being careful. If you break the rules by accident, I'm sure that both you and the moderators may deal with it with patience and understanding. If I understand rightly, these "joustings" are not ongoing, but just happen once in a while. I never heard of any problem in the past. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Thanks for the advice Ess but I’d rather know the rules before I break them. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I am sure you know them. They are right here. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
quote: From your link it seems that duels shouldn't be allowed. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
There are no site rules concerning jousting poetry, aside from a little common sense. Personal attacks forbidden? Yes, but only when they are recognized as being personal attacks. Toerag and I started the jousts, along with LongJohn, many years ago. Toe had come from a site where that was common and he decided to test the waters a little by tossing a little zinger at me. It made me laugh and I decided to respond, although I checked by e-mail with Toerag's friends to make sure he wouldn't be offended if I did so. They assured me he loved it. So we began. The difference between our jousts and some of what we have recently seen is that our "insults" were made in the poetry, not the replies. Also, everyone who read our little battles were convinced that we actually had a great deal of respect for each other and were friends. If we called each other a name it was slapstick, like Moe slapping Curly upside the head and calling him a meathead. There was no animosity at all and everyone had a good time with it. When readers do NOT detect the friendship or respect in the battle, then someone is doing something wrong. When someone speaks of "personal attacks", something is not right. When replies lean toward "nastiness", we have gone too far. check the early battles of Toe and I and you will not find examples of that happening. The problem with extr3m3st's posts were that they did not follow these common sense rules... If you mess with me I'll rip you up like christmas wrappers, You mess with me you will get destroyed, Now it is time for me to pull out my sword, Until I slice you into little pieces and you diminish, Until I lay you down, as flat as a board. So if anyone want's a challange come respond to me, So I can verbally destroy you, and let your poetic soul set free. Lines like these brought complaints from the members, both in the form of issuing tickets and personal e-mails to me, and probably other mods. It's hard to get the feel of any "rapport" or comraderie in lines like those. No, I don't believe he meant harm. He is a 14 year old student who probably just wanted to be a part of what he saw going on with our jousts. He just went about it the wrong way. There are no specific rules. The jousting can be fun. Others join in, it's interesting and it even spurs one on to write and be creative. I would just suggest that it all be done in fun, in a way that all who read it KNOW it's done only in fun, and that the battling be done in the poetry itself, moreso than in the replies. If we can't manage that, then the site is better off without it. |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Thankya, Deer.. and if I recall, we didn't let that skalawag LngJohn go around kicking poor defenseless little kitties either?.. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Nostalgia, it seems, isn’t what it used to be Mike. I remember RainbowGirl and Toerag turning up, I remember the early jousts too but the site was a whole lot smaller then, everybody knew almost everybody but that still didn’t stop the misunderstandings. I remember Toe taking it too far on occasion and Nan posting rebukes and laying down the law and the deletions and discussions among the other members and Mods when he went too far. quote: quote: That’s the way I saw it too Mike, without guidelines he just jumped in using the language of street rappers who face off against each other in verbal duels. Without guidelines we just set him up to be one of the stooges before smacking him upside his head and labelling him Curly for ignoring guidelines that don’t exist. BTW Were the lines you quoted from the thread in question or one of the other two that were closed or moved? My short term memory is questionable but I don’t recognise them, I seem to remember a reference to pop goes the weasel in that thread. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Why doesn't Ron say anything? We could use a leader's judgement here. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
Wow, I never expected this to be such an active thread! I was busy yesterday and just now came back to read. There were several things about that thread in Open that were just plain wrong. It didn't seem to have a humor element in it (maybe I'm just getting too old?) and the replies were indicating a problem. Also, one reply from a moderator (SEA)calling the poster a retard, was offensive in my opinion, even IF my own thoughts were following the same line of thinking. Hence, the suggestion for a jousting tournament thread, almost no-holds-barred kind of thing, with kid-gloves off? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I would like to apologize for my own participation in that thread. In retrospect, my replies did add fuel to the fire. I'd like to point out though, that I was not aware there had been other probelms with that particular member--I do not research every poet I read here. I have seen other forums with flags that have icons indicating the tone of the subject. I don't think the idea is that far-fetched. I have seen these other forums that have love poetry indicated by a little heart icon--so why not have some sort of "jest in fun" indicator to help us all out? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And Ess? Clean that up for me, will ya? *chuckle* And are you available for proof-reading via private e-mail?  |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Yes, Grinch, those are some of the lines from deleted posts. I don't place blame on him. As you say, he's a youngster speaking the language of youngsters. When we speak youngster back to him, that's where the problem comes in. I made an entry on one of the poems which was not abusive in any way, advising him that his particular style in his offerings were outside of the norm here. That could easily have been the end of it...and apparently it was, since he has been decent enough not to repeat it. For the oldsters who jumped in, well, what can I say? You know better. Yes, Kacey, SEA did do that but she felt badly about it and apologized afterward. Yes, Toerag did get slapped down a bit in the beginning (Nan spent a lot of money on erasers) but they were mainly due to sexual content, never from verbally attacking anyone. Essorant, Ron is around, I'm sure. Should the point come where he feels the need to step in, he will. His policy has always been to let the mods and members work things out, whenever possible. He must still think we are doing that well. So do I. |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Yup, can't let Balladeer get away. He's too much fun to have fun with and besides he can't leave a jab alone. So the anticipation of the response is half the fun. And it seems to me this is an excellent dialogue handled so well that I bet Ron gets to use his time doing other things. Or is PiPs his only life? If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Serenity, Suggesting that someone runs a poem through a spell checker doesn’t generally warrant an apology, putting your money on me however was a tad foolish. quote: See Mike this is how easily misunderstandings occur, when you only have words to gauge the intent. While I know you’re talking about the members who replied with personal attacks some people may believe you’re talking about my posts. Such as this one: For a second I thought Shakespeare had risen from the grave As I read this masterpiece of poetry you gave I doubt that any weasels will pop in to rock your boat They wouldn’t dare to mess around with such a cunning foxy stoat. That thread had a lot of misunderstandings attached to it Mike but I think we’ve, or maybe I’ve, concentrated on it too much. It was removed for reasons I don’t understand but as I pointed out earlier I’m not privy to all the information, all I can do is presume that the Mods had good reason to do what they did and acted as they normally do - with the best intent at heart. Perhaps we should get back to the subject at hand: I still believe that some form of explanation should be made available even if it isn‘t a set of guidelines, perhaps the originator could post a set disclaimer explaining the intent at the top of the first post, as I believe has been suggested. At least people will know the spirit in which the poem is posted and perhaps it would avoid misunderstandings all round. Thanks for the chance to read and reply. |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
...Ron who?... |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
grinch, as far as the reply of yours you posted here, I found that to be good tongue-in-cheek humor. Why were the posts deleted? You think that little poem is going to stop me? Oh please, that was garbage, like those fake OG's, I'll demolish you like destruction derby, I'll have you on your hands and knees begging for mercy, I'm a geek, but you're a worthless clown, Telling me jokes that make no sense, so bow down, And come listen to your master, be loyal dog, Before I end your life, and leave you in that eternal fog. You're posts are like an annoying pinch, Meaningless and boring, no action at all, You're just a garbage wannabe, so go walk death's hall, At your pathetic excuses of disses and rhymes, Dismantling your self-esteem is just to easy sometimes, These are examples of replies that have no business here. They are not clever - they are simply personal and meant to insult, nothing more. They have no place in a humorous thread. I still believe that some form of explanation should be made available even if it isn�t a set of guidelines, perhaps the originator could post a set disclaimer explaining the intent at the top of the first post, as I believe has been suggested. At least people will know the spirit in which the poem is posted and perhaps it would avoid misunderstandings all round. If an explanation needs to be made, the post is out of line. If a disclaimer needs to be posted, the post is out of line. We have never had a problem before by simply using common sense. If you still feel that guidelines need to be established, ok. Here you go.. (1) Keep it friendly, humorous, and avoid personal insults not made in jest. (2) If you have any questions, refer to Rule #1 That should do it |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Thanks for the guideline clarification Mike - a personal attack is ok if it‘s done in a humorous way or in jest - got it. Do you think it’s worthwhile amending the existing rules to reflect this? Also, who’ll be judging the intent? If I’m the target and I don’t think it’s a personal attack and the writer doesn’t think it’s a personal attack will it still be deleted? What’s the process for deletion? |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Grinch, I think "attack" is a rather strong word. When I write a Toerag poem and call him dumber than a box of rocks, is that an "attack"? We're adults here....now....mostly. If two people wanted to get into a joust, I would expect them to agree to it beforehand and do it in a funny and clever way. It's all common sense, sir. We all have an amount of that. It's not that hard to be able to differentiate between good, clean fun and abusiveness. We don't need to follow along the lines of the same "political correctness" that has the country screwed up enough. If we have to be that worried about it, then the proper thing to do would be to just forget the whole thing and outlaw them.....geesh! |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
quote: No, but I didn’t think xTr3m3sT was attacking me either but the thread still got deleted. quote: Speak for yourself, I’m 12. quote: xTr3m3sT didn’t think his post was abusive, I didn’t think it was abusive but you and Nan did, are you underestimating the difficulty perhaps? It could be that us kids need a little guidance and clarity before we make an unintentional mistake, is that too much to ask? You could have saved us all a lot of time and discussion in this thread Mike, all you Nan or Ron needed to do was say no right at the beginning everyone would have wandered off back to reading and writing poems instead of making silly suggestions and asking stupid questions. BTW I’m not twelve, I just act like it on occasion. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Why should I have said no at the beginning? I'm not even saying no now. All I'm saying is to use a little common sense and judgement, that's all. You may not have thought extr3m3st's posts to be out of line but, yes, I and Nan, along with the other mods, along with the several people who turned in complaints did. When that many people think that something is wrong, even if you didn't, there has to be a reason. He wasn't jousting with one person - he was challenging everybody and with threats and insults, not with anything remotely resembling humor. That's what triggered the concern and complaints. If you can't see that, then I'm at a loss for what to be able to say to you. We have had many such "jousts" in the past....me, Toerag, LongJohn, Larry, Kevin, Christopher, and several of the ladies all joined in. There has never been a problem or misunderstanding. The fact that this one triggered so many complaints must mean something, I think. No one is saying don't do it. All I'm suggesting is that you use common sense to make it funny and clever, not malicious. It's not that hard to differentiate between the two. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
Our xTr3m one is a (male) teenager, and teens often cross lines set by those of us nearing or receiving social security benefits. This 'opportunity' to (mis)interpret will always be with us A gentle hand is more conducive to friendly jousting than a slap or an insult. Even if this were to be but one isolated incident, I still think a jousting forum would be a FUN and lively new forum addition. Maybe Ron doesn't want any new forums to supervise, but it sure seems that one set aside for this purpose is reasonable suggestion? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I thought it would be fun as well, Kace. I do see a potential for abuse as well too. Like um, it could very well be construed as condoning personal attack poetry as long as there is the "jest in fun" disclaimer. So then moderators might have to be called in to judge matters of personal taste--a tough one at best. But isn't that the job anyway? (Remember "The People vs. Larry Flynt?") But at least we could tell people who seem to have "not-so-funny" agendas that they have a place to write at each other to their hearts' contentment. As long as both parties agree, I don't see what the problem would be. The forum could be rated just as all other forums are rated, and I don't think that Pip's integrity would have to be compromised. I don't think the moderating team would be taxed any more than they already are--trying to figure out intention of malice is already a difficulty. Maybe if participation in such a forum was made privy only to members who have a proven level of participation via posts, anniverary dates, or even a stint in the DM program? I think such a forum could work, and I don't think it would be under-utilized either. It's not something to everyone's taste of course, but at least new people wouldn't get the wrong idea about how friendly the circle of friends may or may not be--I mean, the overly "friendly" poetry is moved to the more mature themed forums pretty quickly. So give it a PG rating, stick it inbetween Open Poetry and Dark Poetry on Today's Topic Listings, and see if it works. If it doesn't? Put it back the way it was? But Ron's house, Ron's furniture, he can move it any way he wants it. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"And Ess? Clean that up for me, will ya?" I didn't see any major problems in that. The only thing I would suggest is not to use "I" so often! Especially not at the beginning of (almost) every sentence. "And are you available for proof-reading via private e-mail?" Not in private. But if you posted something in the English Workshop I could try to look it over and help whereever I may. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
For some reason I feel 99% sure that there won't be a "Jousting" Forum. But there is always room for optimism |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Karen does not presume to speak for the opinions and feelings of others, Essorant. However, if it pleases you, in the future, "I" will ask her to speak of herself in the third person--on threads initiated by Essorant. She doesn't feel a need to be grammatically correct in discussion threads. She's rather informal by nature. Some people find that annoying, yanno? Don't tell her that though, as it will more than likely encourage, rather than discourage her. She may or may not listen to me, however.  She has a defiant streak and sometimes I can't control her either. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"She doesn't feel a need to be grammatically correct in discussion threads. " Well, what other time is meant for being grammatically correct? Our posts are literary records, that may be archived for centuries. Whoever reads them may follow examples of them, and if you leave bad examples, they may follow bad examples. Surely you don't want to go down in history leaving bad examples of how to use language, which is also a means by which you and your reader think? Well whether you do or don't, you aren't leaving bad examples! I was just trying to help improve upon what is already good. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Aw, Ess. Your kind generosity is touching. Karen doesn't doubt your good intentions, lovie. She's not all that concerned about going down in history though. Being present in the presence is more than enough. She enjoys her life, her culture, and yanno? A little colorful flair for the dialect doesn't bother her. I hope it doesn't bother you. It's just a "thang" dawlin'. If we weren't all different, we'd be an unstifled yawn. It's simple preference of being "thee" or being "me". |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
No problem. After these two last points, I will make it a point not to try to correct your comments about any grammatical issues: You don't need to use third person. I was just encouraging that you tone down the repetition of "I" because you have eight I's in only five short sentences in that comment you mentioned. Using "She", "he" or "it" too often is just as bad a habit in writing. "It's simple preference of being "thee" or being "me"." That should be "thou" or "I", not "thee" or "me". "Thee" and "me" are correctly used when verbs are acting on them (to love thee/me) or prepositions (to thee/me). Or in some special cases where the preposition is implied as in the saying Woe is me meaning "Woe is to me or upon me", or methinks meaning "to me seems" . |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Me thinks Miss Karen is more fun in first person.  If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Essorant? *backspaced* I suspect you may be flirting with me....  |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Ess said "Woe is me" ... and that's flirting? |
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