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Sonnet For A Sonnet
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Sonnet For A Sonnet |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Sonnet For A Sonnet A question with it's answer in due time, And fourteen lines is all that one may use, The meter must be true, each line must rhyme -- Requirements strict enough to stress one's muse. Then how might we express the things we ought To say in verse so short and bound so tight By rules to convolute coherent thought? It's surely difficult to write one right. But study of the masters, perseverance, And practice, given talent, will succeed -- Enable one to write in strict adherence -- A feat of great accomplishment, indeed. Oh Sonnet, it's so true that I love you, I only wish that you would love me too. Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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| © Copyright 2000 Pete Rawlings - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
that is so cute! it must have taken you a while. some of it's not quite iambic pentameter, but other than that, its really nice =) if poems were currency, we poets would still be poor. for any fool can string up lines that rhyme, but it takes a poet to trap meaning between them. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Pete: A sonnet to the sonnet. I like it.  Elyse may be referring to your use of feminine endings but, besides those (and the way I could read "I love you" as "i LOVE you"), your meter seemed fine to me. "...will succeed" seems to be missing a subject to me. At first read I didn't really like your concluding couplet (I thought you took the easy road with your choice of rhymes) but after a couple more readings they grew on me. Beware of Brad's lecture on "Oh ..." (Line 13), however. Well, my own sordid affair with sonnets is no secret so I can certainly identify with you on this one. Why do you suppose we allow these 14 lined ladies to manipulate us so?  Good work here, Pete. Jim |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Pete, This is great! I loved it...how did this idea surface...out of frustration? I sure find it to be the truth about sonnet writing. That "perseverance - adherance" rhyme was very good, none of them seem forced. I cannot find anything wrong with this, Pete, it's excellent work. (Just ignore Brad's lecture on "Oh"...I do.) May I use a bit of your thread to ask Jim a question? Jim, when I write a sonnet, being a female, does it become a 14 line gent? Kris the poet's pen...gives to airy nothing A local habitation and a name ~ Shakespeare |
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bboog Member
since 2000-02-29
Posts 303Valencia, California |
Pete~ Sonnets ARE difficult to write. My hat is off to you on this one. Bravo. I liked it. best regards, bboog |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Kris: I've seen you when someone's gotten on your bad side ... if you want a sonnet you are writing to be a gentleman then that is EXACTLY what it is. Hmmm ... I think I smell a challenge brewing ... stay tuned for details. Jim |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Thanks all, for your comments. Someday I think I might actually get one right Elyse, I also suspect you refer to the feminine endings. I really like to drop a couple of those in sometimes. Seems to add a little interest and help break up what could be monotonous rhythm. Hope you can accept it. Bob, bravo seems a little strong  but I humbly accept it  Jim, although it may not be immediately obvious, if you look again, I think you will agree that "study, perseverence and practice" supply the subject for succeed. Leaving out the parenthetical elements makes it easier to see. "study, perseverence and practice will succeed." Now for the couplet. On the surface you are right about the simple rhyme, I did take the "easy way". But that really was what I wanted to say and rather than find different end words, I chose to complicate it a bit by changing the internal wording to achieve internal rhyming, thus . . . true . . . you . . . you . . . too. Although still simple, everyday words, perhaps that is why they eventually grew on you As always, thanks for your encouragement and help in pointing out potential weaknesses.Oh, BTW, I wish you hadn't mentioned the "Oh thing". Brad might have missed it otherwise, now he will surely arise.  Kris, or may I paraphrase you and say Sweet Kris? You are always so kind. Come to think of it, I gues this was born of frustration. I was trying to write a more traditional (for me anyway) sonnet with a similar couplet. It was mostly done but was ghastly (was not good but not really that bad, I just wanted to say the word) so I wrote this instead and scrapped the other (but it does still reside on the disk so may surface later). I'm glad you liked the big words. They were fun to use although I have no idea where they suddenly came from. And yes, feel free to use this thread, or any of mine, to challenge our esteemed moderator. One of the best debates I remember was on another sonnet where I had taken a liberty causing another lovely lady, Jenni, to challenge him. Not only was the ensuing discussion fun to follow, it was very enlightening and educational. Well, from his response, it would seem that you have tickled his competitive instinct.  Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Pete: I suppose I was looking for "study ... perseverence ... and practice" to "succeed" at accomplishing something that was intended. Using "succeed" in this way seems almost circular to me. You have as strong (if not stronger) grasp on rules of English as I do so you tell me ... does "succeed" as an intransitive verb here work if "study ... perseverence ... and practice" are the accomplishments? I may be the only one with this difficulty (sometimes seeing the forest for the trees is a challenge for the left brained). I think the intended accomplishment of "succeed" is the completion of the sonnet, not the perseverence, study and practice necessary to succeed in accomplishing this feat. Been too long since we've had a good debate in here. I will tell you that I'm okay with your rhyming couplet ... I missed the internal rhyme on first read. Again, good job on your sonnet. Jim P.S. Don't even start trying to provoke a debate between me and Kris ... it is bad enough she psycho-analyzes me when she reads my poetry ... no telling what she would learn about my innermost being if we got into a friendly spat. *Shiver* |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Hey...you...Jim...yes, you! When is the last time I tried to psychoanalyze one of your poems? Look at the impression of me you're giving to these wonderful new poets on the forum. They'll fear my replying to their poems. I replied to one of them, and everyone who replied was acknowledged, but me. *sniffle, sniffle*  My nickname is warmhrt, and you "shiver" at the thought of a friendly debate? That has a tinge of an oxymoron somewhere in there. Jim, I think it was a bit mean-spirited of you to suggest I am someone to be feared. Now, what's the challenge?...I'm ready for anything you throw at me (except a double sestina...it's gotta be something I know, okay? Please?) Kris P.S. I think you writing a sonnet as "a woman wondering why men don't like to stop to ask for directions" is a good idea, since your sonnets are ladies. the poet's pen...gives to airy nothing A local habitation and a name ~ Shakespeare |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Jim, I must agree that my grammar on that quatrain is on the edge of propriety. But my intention was for "study, perseverence and practice" to be the subject. It also is the methodology rather than the accomplishment. The next line, "enable one to write . . ." is the accomplishment. Although there is a missing connective element there (had to fit the meter you know) I intended that to be the object of succeed, making it transitive. Rewording as "Study, etc. will succeed to enable one to write . . ." But that butchers the meter. I hoped to get by with the dashes as the connector. Anyway, there is my story. And you are right about the debate or at least discussion. I believe that is how we learn from our fellow poets. So again, I thank you for your interest and your efforts.Finally, I plead absolute innocence in regard to instigating any debate between you and the lovely Kris. I'm sorry, my friend, but I think you habve done that to yourself  But I will be watching carefully as the sparks begin to fly.Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
ooh, i hope you dont mean me Kris! that was an accident, i was workin on my response to the first little reply when you came and left yours (see, there's only like a minute in between your post and mine. no snubbing on purpose ) im up for a challenge! i tremble to ask what is a DOUBLE sestina. i thought plain ones were hard enough! you know what ew could do - i went to this poetry camp/class for a couple weeks and we would write sonnets together. i know that sounds wierd but it was always cool what we came out with. So how we did it was we set the end words and picked a vauge theme and everyone would go and write one line ending in the word they were assigned. we had some cool ones. and then (and this is the part i expect the people here would get a real thrill out of) is we would try to edit or rearrange it to make it gel better. whaddya think? luv Elyse if poems were currency, we poets would still be poor. for any fool can string up lines that rhyme, but it takes a poet to trap meaning between them. |
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Karina New Member
since 2000-04-19
Posts 4 |
I think this is very good writing. It is very true about sonnets. They can be difficult sometimes, but I still love them. They are my favorite poetic form. Karina |
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tom Member
since 2000-01-26
Posts 90s/w penna u.s.a. |
Not A Poet Though I'm not a fan of the sonnet,this made me appreciate the work that goes into this form of poem.Clever,good read. tom |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Thanks Tom, I freely admit to being a sonnet junkie. So a nice complement like yours from one not so inclined is really a pleasure to receive. Thanks much. And, given enough time we may be able to convert you too Pete |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I have arisen. It seems most of you have already heard my 'oh' lecture so why should I repeat myself. Okay, okay here it is. The use of 'oh' is an overused trick that reminds me of the screams of King Lear and the song 'Oh Danny Boy' and has lost whatever melodramtic sincerity some of you still wish to put into it. Kris, are you still ignoring me? The problem here is I thought it worked fine here. Yeah, I enjoyed reading this one and thought you did a fine job, Pete. Why do I aways have to be consistent? Brad |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Thanks Brad, it's always gratifying when you enjoy our work. For Jim, nya nya nya nya, nya nya, Brad said I could say "Oh".  Pete |
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Kirk T Walker Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357Liberty, MO |
I thought this sounded like a very nice idea, but a very very hard thing to pull off. You did a very excellent job! I am not quite up to writing sonnets yet (and hence not yet up to analyzing them thoroghly), but I applaud your great work. Very nicely done. |
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Kirk T Walker Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357Liberty, MO |
I wanted to add one more thing--about the "Oh" usage. I thought it worked fine here and the only reason I would have a problem with it would be that it IS too easy and that everyone knows it is easy (you don't want people going "Ah-HA!" everytime they see "oh" because it is distracting). However, if you REALLY REALLY mean it, then I would use the heck out of it (I use it purposely sometimes), but I wouldn't let myself do it too much or it loses meaning for you and the read. (What I mean is that I think "Oh" really can have some fine properties when used as a dramatic exclamation, but sometimes people think it is just inserted for a syllable or find it to be over-doing it a little, and even if they are convinced that you do mean it, it can seem a little archaic. |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
there ya go libbi ..... what more could ya want - from the master himself .... lol....(or one of them anyway ) |
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