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| How to Join | Member's Area | Private Library | Search | Sanctuary | Login | |
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| Main Forums | Discussion | Tech Talk | Mature Content | Archives |
A home without a wall, |
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| Critical Analysis #1 |
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To everyone: On Critiquing |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
There seems to be a lot of new faces these days so I thought I'd pop this up for anyone who is unsure of what to do here. Always a little worried that CA will resemble a less crowded Open Forum. Now, there is nothing wrong with the Open Forum but this place should be a little different -- I think we all agree on this? More than one person have pointed out that some of the discussions we've had resulting from a poem have been at least as interesting as the poem itself. This is the goal and it's a goal that we won't reach everytime a new poem is posted here. That's okay. I still think it's worthy to strive for it however. So far, most people have voiced three concerns when it comes to posting serious or detailed critiques: 1. Time limitations 2. I don't know all that technical stuff. 3. I don't know how to critique. When it comes to time, we are all in the same boat but I want to say that not everything has to be as long as a Trevor post (I think he is the undisputed master of this type). Also, you don't have to 'cut and paste' or 'slice and dice' everytime you write something. I don't do that all the time. If you have to keep it short, keep it short -- the trick is to write something useful for the writer and interesting for the rest of us. What exactly is useful or interesting is a question that we all ask and nobody can answer and this leads us to the other two concerns: The technical stuff: Don't worry about it. If you want to learn this stuff, there are plenty of places around this site that give you a lot of information. I even wrote some of it.  The important thing is that you give an honest appraisal of the poem from your point of view. It doesn't matter what words you use as long as you tell the writer something that is different from the rest of us. Show your own individuality in your comments as well as your poetry. This can be as simple as saying that it reminds you of a specific childhood memory (and give us that memory). This can, at times, even be more helpful to the writer than a detailed critique of the structure (it has been for me). Tell us what you feel, what specific images, what specific ideas popped into your head as you read it. That's all you really have to do."I don't know how to critique.": I'll let you guys in on a little secret. Nobody does. There's no format to follow when you do this, no standard to follow, just say what you feel. If you interpret a poem and the writer says that that's not what he/she intended. So what? There is nothing wrong with being wrong (I'm wrong all the time). There is a school of thought that all reading is a mis-reading of the piece so what does it matter if you say something slightly off the subject or just plain missed the point -- your mind works in a special way and that way should be communicated to the author. This may not be helpful to the author for this poem but it may be helpful for the next one or it may spark an idea in someone else to write something. Sometimes, I use associations in my critiques just to throw out different ideas. We're all in this together and the more sharing we do, the more enjoyable the poetry will be. Finally, putting a little more thought into the critique can help your own writing. The more careful a reader you become, the more you can begin to hone and define your own voice, your own style. You can see what other people are doing and decide if you want to do that or not. Okay, I guess that wasn't final. Don't forget that personal attacks aren't acceptable but saying you don't like something is. I believe that saying something like "I don't like this because the theme is overdone" is more helpful than "I loved this". If you did love the poem, that's okay but why not throw out an idea or two along with that 'I loved this.' Again, don't be afraid to give us yourself -- because that is what many of us want to see. Any questions? Brad [This message has been edited by Brad (edited 05-31-2000).] |
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Diana B Member
since 2000-03-10
Posts 97 |
so after you critique the critiques that critiqued the poems will someone be critiquing your critiques of the the critiques that critiqued the poems? or is your critique the final critique of the critiques that critiqued the poems? just trying to clarify...thanks brad really trying to get into the spirit of this. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
You're certainly welcome to critique the critiques of the critiques of the poems. These critiques are just critiques to motivate others to write more interesting critiques, to make the critique more a part of the process of the forum itself and not simply an appendage. If I've written a boring critique of a critique of a poem, I would most definitely expect you to critique it. Brad |
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Diana B Member
since 2000-03-10
Posts 97 |
just one more question...now if a poem doesnt get critiqued what does that mean? is someone responsible for seeing that every poem gets critiqued? if not, then it seems to me that is a much larger issue than weak critiquing and should be addressed immediately...thanks again brad for all your help |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hi Diane, "now if a poem doesnt get critiqued what does that mean?" That there is no critique to critique except for the critique of silence. Actually it means very little. Doesn't mean its good or bad, just no one has yet to comment. I know for me personally that sometimes I read and just have nothing to offer at a particular time so I keep my trap shut until I can offer something useful. "is someone responsible for seeing that every poem gets critiqued?" No. It's everyone's responsibility to critique everyone's poetry. There's no magic elf behind a keyboard waiting for poetry so he can pop out another critique. I think though that Brad and Jim and myself always try not to let any poems slip away without at least one comment, though it takes time, there are a lot of posts and if it isn't critiqued properly Brad jumps around in a hissy-fit ...but only after I've whined for hours about the issue and Jim chop-saki'd his computer screen . For me personally, I like quality over quantity. I'd rather have two indepth critiques, or two people I could discuss a poem with than pages full of short sweet nothings. Well that's my opinion on the subject. [This message has been edited by Trevor (edited 03-17-2000).] |
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Tony Di Bart Member
since 2000-01-26
Posts 160Toronto, Canada |
Hey Brad Great critique of critiques. Yes, I agree with you as far as the reason I post here and not else where. I really want some constructive critism. In the other forums that I have posted it all praise and nice nice stuff. When even I know that it is bull poop no matter how good my ego feels. Infact when i first started posting on another site I tried a little experiment. My and a friend wrote an absolutley horible poem. We each wrote 4 lines not knowing what the other person what writing and then mixed all the lines up. We posted the peom and guess what, people said they loved it. That totally turned me of to the site. THen I found this place. When I first posted it was a little rough on my good friend the ego. However, with the positive and constructive feed back I have been able to refine some poems and also I have learned to read other peoples poems more clearly and offer "better" critiques. At least that is what I think or that is my interpreation.(left overs from philosophy 101)LOL See ya PS I will definitly give more constructive comments. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Thanks to Diana, Trevor, and Tony for reading this. Actually, my search has been made rather difficult because most of you are doing a fine job. I guess I just want to reiterate that you just have to say what you feel (which is really all of us do anyway but that's another debate). Keep it coming! Brad |
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haze Senior Member
since 1999-11-03
Posts 528Bethlehem, PA USA |
Hi Brad! How Are Ya? |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
I read it as well Brad .. just wasn't sure how to critique it y'know  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Good Heavens!! A desert ghost ! A shimmering phantasm ! A mirage ! HAZE !!!!!! |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I didn't do nuthin!! Honest!!! |
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haze Senior Member
since 1999-11-03
Posts 528Bethlehem, PA USA |
HEY PHILIP! |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I'm not going to run around critiquing critiques this time but I'd thought I'd bump this up again. It seems like we have a lot of knew people posting here and just want them to know how we try to make this forum a little bit different. Also, don't forget that posting a lot of your own poetry at one time is generally frowned upon but, Zorkon, you're enthusiam is admirable. Brad |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I rewrote this slightly but wanted to pop it back up for all the newcomers -- hope this give people some ideas. Brad |
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X Angel Senior Member
since 1999-11-07
Posts 1521Oregon |
I was gonna critique this critiqing of critiques but found I didn't have the time to critique anything but my kid's handwashing attempts Nice points Brad, well taken and will most definitely attempt fewer replies...tho if I go too much fewer I will be down to zilch!!!(due to time constraint) BUT a more in depth one is most definitely forthcoming.... ...and some of these threads get a bit deep, and I want to participate but someone has to make the lattes... *sigh* guess I can't have my latte and drink it too huh? Very glad you brought this up, I like CA tho it is intimidating with all ya smarties in here *wink* ~Heather |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
I thought this was a good time to bump this one back to the top. There are several new faces who could benefit from the information in this thread. Jim |
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pegasus111 Member Elite
since 2000-07-27
Posts 2219ocala, fl, usa |
I certainly am one of those.. I have tried several rewrites based on critique received here and I thank those involved. I may not always agree but, I certainly give it the serious thought it deserves.Brad..I'm still waiting for your critique on the second rewrite of Honor...lol the woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep, and many miles to go before I sleep...Frost |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
I thought this would be better off near the top right now P |
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JnR4eva Member
since 2000-08-07
Posts 377Bronx, NY |
Hey brad I think this post is great...I am new onto the CA scene...well Passions as well...and for some reason I felt a lil' out of place in this forum b/c I felt that this should be left for those who are much more learned in this area. Yet after reading this post I feel a bit reassured...thanx. "my love is my motivation my love is my inspiration perception of this poem is your interpretation" -- rlt |
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Alwye
Moderator
Member Elite
since 1999-06-16
Posts 3850In the space between moments |
I'm glad this was bumped back up! Read it, understand it, and I feel better knowing that not everyone in here knows everything about poetry. Thanks for posting this!*Krista Knutson* "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." -Confucious |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
back up again i think |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Is this about cars too??? |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
oh - and Brad quote: Properly speaking, that would be: "More than one person HAS pointed out..."  Chris |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
No, Christopher...it's about guys who don't wear SHIRTS!!!! mia ...got to be somewhere better than in the middle...~Wallflowers |
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
mia is my new favorite person on this site. you are such a cutie! luv E |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
grrrrr |
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AniKay83 Member
since 2000-06-28
Posts 388Missing Since 1999 |
Thanks for posting this. I was one of those people stuck with nothing to say, thinking I had to know all the "big words." LOL I'm still in high school after all! I still haven't learned how to pay attention! Much love all, Krissie |
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kid D Member
since 2000-10-18
Posts 64 |
Kalliope Poetry on critiquing the above is a really interesting narrative on critiquing...just found it this morning and thought i would share it only reiterates what brad says above, but it goes a bit further, it is interesting reading too |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I really like the link, kid D. |
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kcsgrandma Senior Member
since 2000-09-24
Posts 1522Presque Isle, ME |
I appreciate seeing this. I've been a bit intimidated by all the learned people here, too (not to mention a bit busy and overwhelmed in my offline life, but that's another story). Anyway, now I feel encouraged to come back and try to contribute. Thanks. To love another person is to see the face of God. - Les Miserables Marilyn |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Thanks, kid, it is a good link. Elyse, you're the sweetie. Should we argue about it? lol Christopher, my man, may I ask when you're last tetanus shot was? You seem to be frothing a little at the mouth...and that growling...scary, to say the least. You may have to be quarantined. mia ...got to be somewhere better than in the middle...~Wallflowers |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
yes thanks kid D .. a good link Kcs - it would be great to see you here i'm sorry i missed your sonnet about Autumn. you hit the nail of the head btw "contribution" is the name of the game ..thanks mia - you have this knack of always being able to say the right thing to Chris - quite hilarious hey - but take my advice, you don't want to be arguing with elyse P oh yes btw why do you call it Fall sometimes and Autumn at other times? Is there a distinction here i'm missing? Different parts of the US? [This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 11-04-2000).] |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
BUMP!! |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
check out "kid D's" link a few replies above as well |
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The Poetic Plumber Junior Member
since 2000-11-05
Posts 38 |
Brad, this is the first poem I have posted in this forum. I will do my best to be honest about others I read. Roger |
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dragonpoe Senior Member
since 2000-11-12
Posts 608Palm Bay, Florida |
Hey all. I am new here and came in to read some of this useful information. It makes it clear for me on what is expected of me, as a contributor to the site. I like to analyze work, dig deep and find those dusty, forgotten emotions that I believe all poetry is bred from. Reading your post, Brad, gives me the courage to do just that. As for the silence, I take that as a negative sign mostly. If no thoughts are spoken, I feel it means courtesy of feeling was used and so I take that as a hint and rework the piece to see if then I could get a response. Inmput from other writers is a wonderful tool to better ourselves, since no two writers are the same we always have something to offer each other, and well, when opinions collide, well, that can teach us something too. I am glad to be here With the word, I am mighty, with the pen I am free.. dragonpoe |
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angelface Junior Member
since 2000-10-25
Posts 40Savannah area, Georgia |
thanks, brad, for the pep talk and severn for the bump  bwa-hahahahaIf something inspires you, write about it. If something inspires you but is pure inspiration, do not write about it, for that shall taint it DS |
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angelface Junior Member
since 2000-10-25
Posts 40Savannah area, Georgia |
To Everyone: Do not buy Hewlett-Packard's computers. They are slow and . . . reprehensible pieces of junk. If you have a Hewlett-Packard, I suggest you go to the salesperson that sold it to you and confront the punk. ********************************************* OK I admit it this was a front post so I could put the advice in my library. So ping me. (but still go after that best buy punk in the hp section) If something inspires you, write about it. If something inspires you but is pure inspiration, do not write about it, for that shall taint it DS |
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Ryan Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297Kansas |
I like my HP. It's coming up on 4 months now, and it hasn't died on me yet. Of course, now I've jinxed it. Ryan (Hmmm, am I helping out by staying off topic? Probably not, so to remedy that, remember people, critiquing is good, fun stuff that's not just for certain people. We can all critique and have fun doing it. Yay for fun.) I like too many things and get all confused and hung-up running from one falling star to another till i drop. This is the night, what it does to you. I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion. —Jack Kerouac |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
I had my 'beloved' HP for...hmmmmmm...6 months and the h/d crashed - lost everything... because of a 'manufacturing' fault.. Angel - I'm agreeing with you and you're welcome for the bump... (grumble...HP's...confronting punk in imagination...) K< !signature-->The wind shifts like this: Like a human without illusions... This is how the wind shifts: Like a human, heavy and heavy, Who does not care. W.S [This message has been edited by Severn (edited 11-18-2000).] |
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artsygrl Member
since 2000-11-17
Posts 55Florida |
Hi Brad my name is artsygrl, I really like what I see here...I was going to introduce myself,but my server went down right after the placing of my poem yesterday...I am not sure how to fill our a bio if you have a section here for that...looking forward to polishing up poetry..I will try to reply but I have never been good at critiqing, I will do my best... sincerely, artsy |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Glad I found this, Brad...I've posted in here in the past...didn't get much "critiqued" but I think I will jump in and see if I can do it...and then perhaps I'll get some feedback. I've mainly NOT posted because of the natural fear of total rejection and/or total dumping, but hey, I've been around awhile...maybe it won't "hurt" so much... yeah, right... but I'm going to try it anyway {~,^} but hey, I'm the positive sort of gal...and will try to find "good" in everything {~,^} Karilea If I whisper, will you listen?... I would rather be silent and write, than speak loudly and be bound. KRJ |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Karilea nothing wrong with finding good in all poems, but, as brad says in his opener, we try to be different in CA and one of the main differences to Open is that we try to think out in some detail WHY we like a piece, and just maybe make suggestions for improvements as well.... waiting with anticipation for your first critique ... later philip |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Watch out Mama K - Poertree bites....hehehee K |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
.......and marsupials tell porkies |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
And marsupials ~bounce~ heh K |
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