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The Hard Way
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The Hard Way |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
It had been a long while. The concrete physics of hedges and dead end pride (he blamed the map), nearly defeated him. When he reached the Centre .. Outrageous! A helicopter! “What took you so long?” smiled God stepping out. The maze vanished. [This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 03-19-2000).] |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hey Philip, Well I had to read this one a few times...and then a few times more to even try and give an interpretation. Well here goes nothing  .....I'm guessing this poem is about someone regaining faith...perhaps the world re-finding God and what would happen if we knew the truth, such as god visiting us...coming down in a helicopter(oh you dry humoured Brits ) and how that would shatter this mystery (maze vanished)."The concrete physics of hedges and dead end pride (he blamed the map!), nearly defeated him." I interpreted this as science killing God and how our search for plain physical answers and the finding portions of the truth has made man foolishly think we actually know/knew something. "“What took you so long?” smiled God stepping out." This I'm guessing that you're saying humans figured out what it was all about and God came down to say..."Winner, winner, chicken dinner!" ANyways, I felt this poem to be a little vague though it's format seemed to prod me to think, which is a good thing, still I can't help but wonder what this interesting story would be like with a bit more meat on the bones. BTW, can't get over a visual of God coming out of a helicopter, good one. Thanks for the read Philip, take care, Trevor |
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Scarlet Lady Member
since 2000-02-11
Posts 242Midwest |
INTRIGUING!!!!! I absolutely loved this poem! It makes one want to read it over and over again...or maybe it is just me?? I found your interpretation to be equally as fascinating Trevor. I actually enjoyed the interpretation as much as the poem. Such thought provoking thoughts here. Thanks guys! |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
My aren't we in a strange mood these days? First, you do this poet thing that's not really about any poet and now this. Okay, let's take a look at it: It had been a long while. --Interesting phrasing here which lends credence to Trevor's interpretation. Why not 'it took a long time' or 'it has been a long time'? This certainly implies a retry at something (presumably searching through the maze). Furthermore, this puts the whole poem in the past tense, this is something that has already happened, not something that will happen. The concrete physics of hedges --Normandy immediately popped into my head but, I forgot, you're not fond of that type of allusion. Still, we have a problem here with the 'concrete' and the 'hedges'. On the one hand, you could be talking about 'concrete hedges' -- I see a type of 'concrete jungle' then -- or it could be the physical reality of the world around us is actually slowing us down from the more important pursuit of spirituality? Could be both. and dead end pride --I like this line. However, how are we supposed to take the dead end? Is it pride that leads to death? Is it a physical dead end that he finds in the maze (might be some problems with that interpretation if we take the idea of 'dead' a literal more seriously than most people do). (he blamed the map!), --Is he reading the map incorrectly or is that map as vague as this poem? nearly defeated him. --ah, but it didn't, did it? Actually, if we go back to the Normandy idea (I know, I know, just put up with my useless intellectualizing for a moment.) WWI was a war that made people lose faith in God. WWII, on the other hand, was a war that supposedly brought faith back into the world because it can so easily be seen as a 'just' war. When he reached the Centre .. --He does reach the center and he does use a map and he finds to his own astonishment a helicopter, perhaps another symbol of technology, of the 'concrete jungle', of science. Hmmmm, seems like your doing something interesting here (besides the enjoyment of the image itself, never something to be discounted). Sounds to me, that in order for the poem to work, you have to see the emphasis, not on the concrete, not on the hedges, not on the man-made and/or physical world, but solely resting on his pride. The map was accurate but his interpretation was inaccurate due, not to intelligence or just thinking, but to his pride. I like this actually. It seems simple at first but you've developed a rather subtle distinction here. Outrageous! A helicopter! “What took you so long?” smiled God stepping out. I can see only an ironic smile here because God, knowing what the difficulty is, what the fundamental mistake is, is laughing at the own apparent incongruity of his own plan. It is never the world around us that holds us back but the 'pride' that does. Once this is known, the maze (which was never 'really' there in the first place disappears). I liked this one much better than the poet one because while there I thought you were just playing tricks, here I see a case of misdirection -- the use of 'concrete' and 'hedges', 'dead ends' and 'maps' are metaphors for pride -- these problems never actually existed (as witnessed by God's use of the helicopter). Once this realization is discovered, that science, technology, and the man-made physical world are not seen as contradictory to God, we can begin to see God. And He's smiling. Brad |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Hi Philip, It seems to me that both Trevor and Brad are onto something worthwhile here. I hate to be completely wrong (so I waited for their interpretations before responding)  It does seem like man (general or specific) regaining lost or weakened faith. The hedges and pride must be those mental and emotional barriers we build which sometimes interfere with that faith. I love the first line. I really can't explain why but it seems to set the mood for what comes behind. I'm not so sure I like the helicopter as well but it certainly does provide an ironic twist..Thanks Philip. As usual, you make me think too much though. Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hi again, I've been thinking more about this poem lately and the map and center thing and foolish pride and say that maybe those pieces are about how past astrologers used to believe that earth was the center of the universe and maybe god got lost in finding earth because he used a map made by humans....ya I know it's a stretch but that's what it got me thinking about. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Philip: The vengeful sort are we? This one doesn't seem to be very difficult but, of course, I could be wrong (it happened once, I supposed it COULD happen again). It seems the "concrete physics of hedges" represents any systematic reasoning process. As it applies to your poem, I think it could either represent physical science or philosophy/theology or any other "means" one uses to seek out truth. I'm thinking that you are leaning in the direction of systematic theology or formal religious practice. "and dead end pride (he blamed the map!), nearly defeated him." Yeah, pride does tend to be our foe, doesn't it? Always looking for "old-fashioned" the do-it-yourself satisfaction in the quest for truth. If the "quest" you are describing is the search for knowledge of God then I think, again, that you are referring to the misguided notion that we are capable, by our own efforts, of finding God. "When he reached the Centre ... Outrageous! A helicopter!" The helicopter represents the vanity of confining one's self to a "maze" which is represented as a hindrance in finding God (or truth, if "truth" is represented by the "Centre"). Is it a coincidence that "truth" and "God" would be found in the same place? "'What took you so long?' smiled God stepping out." Geesh ... God with a British sense of humor ... a bit far-fetched dontcha think? Nice touch. This, however, doesn't discount the "map" as being ineffectual. Without the "map", would the "driver" even know there was a Centre? A God? Just curious. "The maze vanished." Yeah, once God (and truth) are found, why go through all the motions. I can't get the idea out of the mind that the maze DOES serve some sort of purpose even if, in hindsight, it was more of an obsticle than anything else. So ... have I redeemed myself? Jim |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Trevor, Interesting thought, that "center of the universe" thing. That part really sounds good. In fact, if that's not correct, then maybe Philip should adjust his intent.  But I do think the part about God losing his way stretches a bit too far. Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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roxane Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505us |
faith. i don't think i've seen another of your poems like this. the thing that bothers me is that god is always portrayed as being a little smug. you know that "footsteps" bit, where he lets the man agonize over whether or not he was alone in the most horrible times in his life? i think humans in general resent god a little. only because we see death, despair, tragedy, disease, and worst of all, we see the innocent suffer. we can't comprehend this. we are a just species, we like fair play and equality. that is the down side of god. (you already know what else i feel) another point i want to discuss is the map. is that symbolic of the bible? are we referring to judeo-christian god, or something more? you're basically saying this man blames "the map" (organized religion?) for him losing his way. am i close? so is this poem optimistic, or pessimistic? or realistic? i don't know. is the helicopter a symbol of technology, or is it rather demonstrative of the power that god wields, and shows us further how insensitive he is? i guess we haven't talked religion much have we, p? well, i hope you'll explain it. take care |
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bboog Member
since 2000-02-29
Posts 303Valencia, California |
P~ This reminded me of one of those cute "Mr.Men" books that my kids are fond of reading. (I even had a visual of God having a smiley face along with a normal human body) But isn't it true that in life we all take "the hard way" when the way out of our maze might be quite simple. A simple poem with a good message. best regards, bboog [This message has been edited by bboog (edited 03-14-2000).] |
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tom Member
since 2000-01-26
Posts 90s/w penna u.s.a. |
Just a guess! Was this person a stock broker,told by a secretary("Centre")to meet the boss("God") at the helipad ,who fired him,no more rat race("The maze vanished.")? |
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LittleBoyLost Junior Member
since 2000-03-14
Posts 28 |
Wow! So many different ideas. I think the one about the stock broker is most creative so that one gets my vote! Thank you. This is very good. |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Hello Philip (I'm back), I take this to be a search for freedom, the subject of a couple of recent poems. The subject had felt trapped within a self-imposed maze, and felt his only directions were those "society" laid out for him. He felt helpless, as these directions were from outside of himself, leaving him also feeling powerless. Looking inside of himself (the Centre, where God resides in us all), he sees that he has the power to control his destiny, his freedom (the helicopter, the maze vanishing). Am I at all close, Philip? Nice to be back here, but I wish it was from Maui, Kris A Marrowless Assembly, Is culpabler than shame ~ Emily Dickinson |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
OK OK OK What's going on 'ere? She says in a querilous tone... (later as usual..) |
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X Angel Senior Member
since 1999-11-07
Posts 1521Oregon |
Phillip, I have a few minutes between lattes and cannot resist throwing my two cents in about this poem....I read it many times, read ALL the replies.....here goes my theory- I think you are probably writing about a man who was very wealthy, had his "own map" so to speak...not God. He lived well and had everything he could have ever wanted. In the end he came to terms with God (prolly on his deathbed) and his mortality and he died...and went to heaven. Which was an agoniSing process (it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle that for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven)for him. Dying, death, the journey to heaven (the MAZE).... I think "HE" was a little smug, being upset that God only had a helicopter waiting for him, after all he went through to get there..I think he expected a Rolls. Upon reaching the end of the maze, the center, God stepped out and simply asked "What took you so long" meaning "Why have you waited all your life to accept me?" Then the maze did disappear, for he had the best map of all. God. *shrug* just a thought ~X~ |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Sir P Once again I have not read anything that anyone has written... The things I do for you!!OK You have a lyrical way of befuddling...but I shall do my best. (Oh yes - I must say, this is one time I wholeheartedly like the punctuation in a poem) This is written so plainly with stark imagery - any flowery metaphors in this would have ruined the tone so well done there. Actually having said what I said about the punctuation I have decided I don't like one thing - the ! after 'map'. Nope - I read it aloud and I feel it works better without it. What do you think? Structurally I like it too - the spaces are great. Good pauses - for reflection and they capture the journey. Right - the content. Phew... What do I say? I admire your mind! hehe. What, I ask myself, are the hedges? Are they physical? Are they self imposed? Dead end and concrete link to me. So is the speakers pride a hedge? Yet by using 'and' you have separated the two - but then, you could be reinforcing them by expressing them in different ways...hmmm, pondering. OK - linking hedges, pride, dead ends and a map together I have decided that this is definitely a inner mind thing of the speaker and this person travels lost through roads of pride (or maybe around and around the smae ones since it is a 'maze') that make him unable to see God. He uses physics (ie science) coupled with human pride as preventatives from 'seeing the light'. Hence - finds God at the Centre (which could be a physical place or the centre of the maze) immersed in technology (helicopter) and god appears able to fly, thus able to live in His domain of the skies due to science. Struggles briefly ('Outrageous') and then accepts a personable God and the maze of pride and false belief vanishes and the speaker is redeemed. Yeah - that's what I think anyway. I love this! I do. I find it so simple yet so profound. Well done! Lady K PS - I did spell querilous wrong in my earlier post did I not? LOL < !signature--> 'Writing sharpens life; life enriches writing' Sylvia Plath [This message has been edited by Severn (edited 03-17-2000).] |
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kaile
since 2000-02-06
Posts 5146singapore |
dear Poertree,i am reading this without reading any of the comments by the others(so i am approaching this with an open mind) i read this as this person who is not too good at navigating and finding his direction in life(hence the poor map-reader).finally he reaches his destination(the centre)and he finds to his surprise that Someone above him is already there--that he could actually reach there faster if he had exercised a little more faith.nonetheless,he has still reached his goal and hence the maze disappears as he is no longer that confused.... i don't really know how to give critical analysis--here was my emotional response ") |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Thanks to all of you .. and yes to Brad I have been in a strange mood .. nothing wrong with that is there? Huh? Huh?? ... Trevor Pretty good. In fact so good you rather give the lie to your comment “a little vague” ...lol. You say its about “someone regaining faith” and then later broaden this to the “world finding God” and “you’re saying humans figure out” .. I was shooting at the latter interpretation, it was meant to be universal in application .. the “him” was the human race in general. Excellent Trev. “Regaining faith” .. “re-finding God” this was good as well, as you’ll see later. Good job all round Trevor .. I see I need to turn the obscurity level up a notch ... Illusion What an appropriate screen name!!! Illusion was largely what this poem was about. Thanks .. more later. Brad Very well spotted Brad on the “re-try”, that was precisely what was in my mind. Explain in a moment. As for the past tense .. yes I see your point... interesting, but actually I simply intended this as a speculation about the future. I wanted the immediacy of the dialogue with God to be a little “explosion” in the centre of the poem producing the strong and intriguing visual image that Trev referred to (different for everyone no doubt) so the tense of the remainder of the poem kind of followed from that. Nice reasoning on the “concrete physics of hedges”. Both you and Trev between you pretty much bottomed out all i had in mind. It’s the words themselves, rather than the phrase, which were meant to matter. “Concrete” to suggest inflexibility and rigidity of thinking. “Physics” ..to be taken at face value as Trev took it ie human science and “hedges” .. both a barrier and an advance signal about the maze metaphor. “Concrete physics” .. perhaps an over willingness of humans to entrench themselves in “practical” science or as Trev put it “science killing God” (perhaps a bit baldly stated for my taste ...lol). “Concrete hedges” ,,, quite valid as well as you say. And the “physical reality of the world around us is slowing us down from the more important pursuit of spirituality” ....... you put it precisely as i had in mind Brad ..(most gratifying .....lol) and furthermore the words “slowing us down” are significant because a slight twist to this poem which many will doubtless see as illogical (maybe impossible) is that i had in mind the possibility of two routes to “The Truth” or “The Centre”. The fast track route ..lol (a pursuit of spiritual understanding) and the slow route (man slogging out using science. They get to the same point in the end ... an appreciation of the reality of spirit and the unreality of the material. Hey Brad you were in the right frame of mind to read this weren’t you ..lol. Another day and you’d have been hurling the “spear and arrows” of intellectual philosophy at me ..lol .. you “got” the “dead end pride” reference pretty well. In the background of course this is another lead to the maze metaphor, the continual false trails and dead ends in the hedges as man fumbles his way through science. And of course it is pride that makes things slow in that he is reluctant to admit he took the wrong turn ..and yes pride would ultimately lead to “death” in the sense that he’d never reach truth unless pride was conquered.LOL to “map as vague as the poem” (same comment as i made to Trev here !) .. When man finds he’s struggling... ie finding the maze hard going instead of looking for a radically different solution (lateral thinking?) he finds something else to blame ie the map or the maze must be wrong not my thinking .. more conceit more pride more delay in finding Truth. “Nearly defeated him – ah but it didn’t did it?” Nope as I say, back to the title of the poem “the Hard Way” .. he does it the hard way but he does get there.. (Suspect reasoning i think .... philosophy sacrificed to humour ...lol). Umm .. i can always out up with you Brad lol ...... thanks for that about the wars .. I think about it. Yes your onto the pride thing now .. and I am with you absolutely on the idea that pride is the central factor in holding him back .. We are just slightly different on where this leads us though, in that you focus of the possibility of the map through the maze (science) being accurate but mans interpretation inaccurate ... What i was trying to say was that the whole maze, map and everything are the “wrong” way to go (the hard way). As for the helicopter, perhaps taken a strictly face value this could have confused (although of course you are quite entitled to read it as you wish .lol) mixing something so obviously materialistic with something so obviously not. So ridiculous was the image that i suppose i rather hope that it would simply be viewed with humour and that the central point i had in mind would be the focus of attention ..viz.. that God descends from a different dimension smack into the place that man has been trying to get to all the time in his two dimensional way. Two and three dimensions being allusions to material and spiritual ways of thinking i suppose. “Once this is known the maze (which was never there in the first place) disappears)” Right on again Brad ..lol .. i sort of see man arriving at the Truth (Centre of the maze) eventually and looking from god to the helicopter in astonishment and realisation dawning on him that he’d just spent hundreds of years blundering around in a hidebound way of thinking when in fact the “helicopter of thinking” that could have taken him straight into “a different dimension” was there all the time. Of course as realisation dawns the apparent obstacles that he faced disappear. (There is some woolly thinking here i know because one must assume that if man reached the Centre of his own volition the hard way then again the maze would vanish so i prefer to think that he was diverted by the presence of the helicopter and God and by the time he looked round the hedges had gone anyway ....... lol.... and no I’m not crazy ..lo) Thanks Brad Pete Yes lets deal with the question of “re-gaining” or as Brad put it “a retry”. When initially wrote this i had Jesus in place of God. The reason is that i had in mind the idea that Christ came to earth to demonstrate to man “the Way” to go, to show the spiritual path. For a few decades after his resurrection some men, notably Paul and his disciples did make some steps down the correct path, but then materialism and dogma and personal interpretation started to impose themselves upon the “correct” way of thinking. \this is where the idea of regaining came from .. man, by way of a tortuous route eventually regained the understanding that he nearly grasped at the time of Christ. Later, with an eye to the humour and irony, i thought that God had more impact than Jesus in the central role ...lol .. so i changed it, rather overlooking the impact that might have on the first line. Thanks Trevor (again) ............ er ........ er ........ lol ... I should stick with your first shot if i were you .. been talking to Jim lately !!?? Jim Actually I was leaning towards “physical science” lol...... you should have listened to brad and trev ... Jim you spotted the main weakness as I see it with this piece.. and that is, as I said to brad .. there were some sacrifices to “humour”. “The misguided notion that we are capable by our own efforts of finding God” .. suggests probably correctly that there is no way man is going to get through the maze, map or no map, at risk of consigning the poem to the waste bin, i might have to agree with you ..lol. Spot on with the helicopter Jim .Which is more far fetched: “A Brit with a sense of humour (with a “u”) or a yank who can understand it .......??” lol Thanks Jim Pete (again) lol .... A dead end Pete .. lol though of course (as per Brad) you must get what ever you want out of this ..... Rox If God was a person then I guess he might seem a little smug .. although to be fair he gave us enough chances didn’t he? Actually with “the map” you raise a good point, and maybe i was a little unfair on Jim as well just now. There is no reason why the maze and the map can’t indeed be more than just physical science. The rest of your questions raise so many points (some of which are answered above) that i can’t begin to discuss them all here. And no we haven’t discussed religion much, so when i can track you down we will if you want, but, be warned, I’m kind of confused .....lol. Take care A and thanks. Bboog Exactly B .. why take the easy way when there is a hard one! ...lol Tom lol ..... verry good ... do you write the Bond movies? ~smile~ P LittleBoyLost Yes “creation” did have a bit to do with this..... Kris Different .. Kris .. different and there’s no way I’m going to say you’re wrong because you’re not, a lot of what you said “fits” with the ideas behind this poem and you put an interesting slant on it. Thanks .... and nice to have you back in one piece. Kamla wow .. great critique ...lol Heather LOL good heavens ... at first i thought “What!!” but on closer reading this is also a pretty good “variation” and the comment “why have you waited all your life to accept me” is especially acute ... Thanks H (How are the espressos going?) Kamla (again) Ahhhh Lady K .. you return in substance ......lol I agree about the “!” after map .. it shall be removed instantly your Royal H ... heh heh. “Admire my mind” .....lol huh what about my body? hummphhhh Well you did a pretty good job as you’ll see from reading the stuff above.. The helicopter thing confused you “God appears to be able to fly due to science” but then as i explain above that was perhaps a weakness of the poem, i guess i went for humour and image above logic ... just like me! Thanks O cold one ..lol SP Kaile Pretty good job as well kaile .. if you read above you’ll see you were close to what i had in mind ... Thank you to all of you for the time you spent on this, and now I’ll try and write something that won’t give brad further worries about my state of mind ....... Or maybe that’s not possible ..lol Philip |
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