»
Archives
»
Critical Analysis #2
»
The Narrow Road (Mindelay, part 1)
| Critical Analysis #2 |
|
The Narrow Road (Mindelay, part 1) |
|
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Hold! A man, a corpse or half-asleep, unclothed and unkempt, Lies in the middle of our path. We stopped and surveyed The shadows closing upon us. In a twilight gray Fear comes from just beyond the corner of your eye And too much time is spent in search of it. When twilight Closes to darkness, the fear is right in front of you And we see Fear in the face like dragons and sheep Amid the clouds, "We are the future, Charles. Not them. They no longer matter." And this is what it is like to be called them. It is much easier to be brave when there are children to protect. We have children to have them fulfill our dreams. But nothing so avuncular as Sean Connery's voice, Nothing so comfortable as a wool sweater in February, A baguette straight from the baker's oven or the taste Of melted chocolate and marshmallow on a camping weekend. We see the dancers through the flames, no longer the center, Now, a circle, a wall that forces these contorted shapes Into impossible, indescribable, unnameable poses. Sounds as echoes of images from before Man, A glimpse of the real cult of Cthulu. And we see ourselves in the third person, a reverse Telescopic lens, receding from us. The lamplight, The shield that surrounds us, grows to a lighter just Before a single cigarette is lit. We use flashlights And watch the light rays, never powerful enough, Too narrow and searching, too much Like the searchlights patrolling the sky in Westwood. It comes when you're never quite completely inside the light. It is much easier to be brave when there are children to protect. We have children to have them fulfill our dreams. Turmoil. We crossed over the man for we could not go around, But as my wife crossed, he moved, he never looked up, But somehow we saw his eyes in the flash of a lightning bolt. What power does a lightning bolt have with no thunder? Half-open, dimmed red with no white, no iris, he muttered one word two times: "Mindelay, Mindelay" Mindelay, the sanctuary? Mindelay, the storm? We never knew which was which when we heard the name. And then one last echo: "Yo creo que los reyes desaparecen". [This message has been edited by Brad (11-16-2006 04:11 PM).] |
||
| © Copyright 2006 Brad - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Kings will, I think, disappear? Should it be lie or lay in L2 Brad? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And YOU are gonna make me do research when I have a full stove of pots simmering too. *pout* translations and everything! grrrr And it may take me some time, but I'll be back to this--you had to throw in Sean Connery to make sure, huh? and one question? Is this in any way related to the eki-thinga-ma-jiggie challenge? arggghhhh I've already had too much to think, too.  |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, Grinch already gave the translation. Mindelay is my own spelling of Mindulle, it's a Korean word. And, Grinch, honestly, I think it should be lies. Thanks for pointing that out. |
||
|
Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Thanks for the mindelay explanation Brad, you saved me a whole heap of searching and a fairly large dose of probable frustration - I'd have never got that. Maybe that's useful though, would the original spelling not be better in this piece? I'd still have some work to do but a puzzle that I can't solve usually just ends in frustration. I read mindelay as a reference to the lightening and thunder - you know min\delay I thought the man in the road was being profound, that he was pointing out that there's a delay between lightening and thunder and that the time between the two didn't lessen the power. I guess I should put my books down and get out more.  Lie verses lay? As I lay dying This is the use of lay in retrospect If you use lay I associate it with the man in the road, lie makes me think in terms of an untruth not a man lying on the road. If it is the man then this: We stopped and surveyed Suggests a past tense, you're telling the story in retrospect - I think the man would lay not lies. Then again if you're going for an untruth lies is fine. Honestly!  |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
"Zues lies in Ceres' bosom"? As I lay dying, if I recall, is a special case. Great book by the way. I remember physcially cringing at the whole cement cast debacle. Hmmmm, looks like a rewrite is coming no matter what There may indeed be a problem with tense, however. I'm not sure yet. Do you think the reverse telescopic thing should be retrospective as well? As far as the spelling goes, much more a matter of sound (light with no thunder, not lightning with delayed thunder -- which is still about sound, isn't it?). I read Mindulle as MinDULle, I read Mindelay as MINdeLAY. [This message has been edited by Brad (10-19-2006 10:11 PM).] |
||
|
rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
I loved the first stanza!!!! But Amid the clouds, "We are the future, Charles. Not them. They no longer matter." THat did not make sense could you explain it please. There were some bits that just drew me into this story but as soon as I got in and could feel and taste and hear it in my mind , there were bits that just pulled me out again. Such as We have children to have them fulfill our dreams. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Eric (Magneto) says that in x-men one. |
||
|
ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
Brad- I only have two points of contention. You use quite a few conjunctions. You beging 10 out of 42 lines with "and" or "but." It makes the read feel a little more run on then it is. Second (sort of a question and a crit) you may need to/do you need to credit the source in L9 as the screenwriter of X-Men 2. Beyond that, imagery was wonderful. It's nice to have something that is truly enjoyable to read before heading off to work. thanks. Rhia - part of that phrase comes from the opening scene of X-Men 2; spoken by the character Magneto (Ian McKellen, I think) to Professor X (Patrick Stewart). CS |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Rereading this, I think you may have a point on the conjunctions. Karen, this is Mindelay, part 1. |
||
|
hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
What does mindulle mean? It should be 'lies.' 'We have children to have them fulfill our dreams.' Any specific reason for this phrasing? Two 'have's so close together makes me stumble whan reading. Maybe intentionally? I orginally read: "We have children to have them [works as its own thought]... fulfill our dreams" I like a lot of individual images/lines here... but it all fails to come together for me? My mind does not work well with abstraction... which isn't to say it's a fault with your poem... I just can't make it all come otgether in my mind. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: That should come out in a later part (or you can look it up). The whole germ of this thing began when I heard the term used to refer to a storm (this will be covered in the 4th poem). Let's just say that's what got me thinking. quote: Yes: 'We have them to fulfill out dreams' makes children the object of the dream. 'We have them to have them fulfill our dreams' implies, I hope, a kind of passing of the guard feel. quote: Great. quote: Yeah, abstraction and allusion (and foreign language too) seem to be surefire ways to turn people off of a poem. The first thing, however, and the thing that makes me worry that it's not working is not that you understand some deeper meaning, but that everybody recognizes that there is a narrative line here. Is that clear? ----------------- Karen, I know you dread doing homework and, well, I've never been someone who believes that allusions should control or poem. They are there to add to the effect, not distract from the experience. So, in that vein, rather than trying to explain everything, I'll just try to answer questions as they come up. If you can find the time to ask a question, I'll find the time to answer them. |
||
|
hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
'Yeah, abstraction and allusion (and foreign language too) seem to be surefire ways to turn people off of a poem. The first thing, however, and the thing that makes me worry that it's not working is not that you understand some deeper meaning, but that everybody recognizes that there is a narrative line here. Is that clear?' Yes, it is. Who said I was turned off? I keep coming back for more, don't I? I got a little further with Mindulle- I was trying to translate it via babelfish, and it didn't work (your last line did, tho). Like I said, I'm getting closer (I think). |
||
|
openthoughts Member
since 2006-01-16
Posts 94Where the child can be free |
I understand now why your critique was so focused on my imagery (or lack thereof). It is what gives life to your poetry. It is undeniable that your poetry could be some of the best I've seen on this site but please don't forget...all poetry has purpose. There will always be a deeper meaning and if you haven't been able to find it, it just means you didn't look in the right place. |
||
|
kaila Junior Member
since 2006-12-24
Posts 37PA |
First few lines are grabbers, and I love the third person image. You took me where I think you were going. A picky question: Is it "they" at the end of the following? "We are the future, Charles. Not them." I know that "them" sounds right, but I thought the line might be a situation in which the line really means "It is not they." |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
You are right, Kaila. Them in that line should be in the nominative case, since it corresponds or implies corresponding with the word are: "We are the future, Charles. Not (are) |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Yes, but that's what he says in the movie. So, do I maintain the integrity of the quote for aesthetic reasons or correct Magneto's grammar? Before you answer, the running motif in the X-Men movies is important in reinforcing one of the main themes here. Thanks. |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"So, do I maintain the integrity of the quote for aesthetic reasons or correct Magneto's grammar?" Get them to remake the movie |
||
|
kaila Junior Member
since 2006-12-24
Posts 37PA |
You're the boss here. If the reference is key to your theme, certainly you can (probably should) stick with it. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: High praise even if it's modified with a modal. When I first read this, I had hoped it might have sparked some disagreement (believe me I can take it.) But what you call 'deeper meaning' is usually just an abstraction and that can pretty much be done with anything. As I said in reference to your two pieces, the surface meaning is the meaning. If that sparks thoughts of another nature, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't bother me. |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
