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conscientious objector..what do you say about it?
| Philosophy 101 |
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conscientious objector..what do you say about it? |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
egoism? selfishness? self interest? Altruism? |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Conviction. |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Depends on whether it is a true conviction, or a convition of convenience, and just something to use as a knee-jerk protest. What would you attempt to do...if you knew you could not fail?. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
It does really depend upon the motive. Conviction or cowardice is a matter of the heart. |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Well I can only speak for myself. I was a CO based on religious conviction and was willing to go to Vietnam without a weapon. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
The whole Universe  (See the "Cornered" thread) |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Essorant what does that have to do with the price of Tea in China? Stephen |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Having faced, as many others did and do today, this precise dilemma, my feelings are somewhat ambiguous. When I recieved my draft notice in the Viet Nam era, I fully and truly believed that all wars, including that one, were moral abominations, and participation would inevitably result in the degradation of my soul. I also believed it was my responsibility as a citizen to serve in the military when called. This notion, apparently, was more strongly engrained in me, personally, than the notions of refusal, flight, or seeking CO status. Hindsight being wonderful, I of course, the least likliest of soldiers, made the wrong decision, and I've paid for it ever since with a debilitating and occasionally hospitalizing "knowing" that I made, for me, a cowardly choice. The choice to participate. I don't know how it is for others, and don't presume to speak for anyone else. I have nothing but the greatest respect -- an unresolvable conundrum -- for those who serve and those who choose not to. FOR ANY REASON AT ALL. At the time of the Vietnam war, it was a life altering decision for slightly older fellows like me, to serve or not. The number of those who "opted out" or chose to serve as valiant unarmed Medics, or go to Canada, or go to jail, was statiscally miniscule, and I suspect, comprised as a group, the truly committed anti-war protestors, with deep religious or ethical convictions, and enormous personal strength. Given the current all volunteer military, with an older average age, it is possible to forget that the average age of the Viet Nam era Army draftee or volunteer was 19. I doubt that these "kids," my fellow soldiers, had the maturity to make a reasoned decision. What I don't doubt is that military service in time of war will profoundly affect the remainder of a "vetran's" life, as it has for all vetrans of all wars on any "side." Looking at it again today, as my grand children approach the age of draft-potential should a draft be reinstitued, I would advise them all to buy a ticket to the Canary Islands. I want them to live, and I hope they will never have to, or want to, participate in murderous madness. Right now, in my own obscure spiritual way, I pray for our soldiers as individuals, for the Iraquis and the Afghanis and every other individual in every other place where people are being killed or encouraged to kill. Heavy duty question. Best, Jim |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. A man has a moral obligation not to promote by participation a cause he does not by the evidence believe in. However it may not be until he is actually involved before he can make that decision. To merely say that war per se is immoral and thereby justifies non-participation only feeds the lions. . |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Stephanos, The price of Tea in China is a part of the Universe, and therefore partly determines the whole Universe, in so far as it may. But the whole Universe is the whole (including the price of Tea) and therefore it wholly determines the price of Tea in China. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: That might very well be the strangest thing you've ever said. “Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.” |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Gotta say, Ess, I don't buy it. If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
You don't need to buy it; just like I don't need to buy that our choices are in vacuums and not in conjunction with the rest of the universe. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Essorant, The phrase "tea in china" had to do with asking you ... what does your monistic philosophy have to do with being a conscientious objector???? I guess such a non-sequitur was predetermined by the cosmic "One"? I guess you had no choice. pity.  Stephen. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Huan Yi -- Gotta love them "moral" wars. I guess you get to pick and choose depending on whose side you're on. I'm sticking to my guns (though not firing them). War is immoral. Whether war is necessary, useful, unavoidable, inevitable etc. -- none of which you said in this thread so far -- is a whole other tea cask. Best, Jim |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Ess, I have read many philosophy threads. And I confess to an element of admiration for those of you who do debates that I read. From the time I was exposed to philosophy in my college career there was much that I found that I not only did not believe but had no interest in. Not much has changed about that. I am not much interested in debating or philosophy but I am exremely intrigued by logic. Most often it is Ron who makes me wish that I had the skills to participate in those dialogues. But I find for the most part I am not philosophically minded enough. It was only my intent to simply take a personal stand as it relates, ultimately, to a topic that is quite personal for me. And because of that I gave my brief and less than philosophical reply. Just know I do enjoy watching the discussions and will continue to do that from a distance. Regards, Larry C If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Stephanos It was meant to show the contrasting side of choice: that even though a choice is made attatched to the self, the choice is also made attached and in conjunction with the rest of the universe as well. For neither the self nor the choice is in a vacuum, but they come and go to and from a conjunction with everything else under the whole universe |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Larry No problem. Not everyone needs to wrangle. |
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