A little dialect feedback, please

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rwood
Member Elite

since 2000-02-29

Posts 3793
Tennessee

0 posted 2007-03-03 08:14 AM

I’m a little torn on something and I hope y’all can help me out.

Does anyone feel that the use of southern dialect reduces the quality of prose or poetry?

I feel dialect enhances a body of work, but I was told that southern dialect tends to not only reduce the piece but “un-educate” the author (as in date-as in mark) as well as the character if one is not very careful.

I thought all literature was carefully written.

Does dialect really reflect intellect?

I’m seriously considering slightly revising something based upon this notion, because I don’t want someone very important to me to be mistaken as uneducated. Sounds unethical in “keeping it real” but presentation is key.

Thank you, and g'day,

Reg

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

1 posted 2007-03-03 10:35 AM

Yanno?

I nevah let dat stuff bothah me.

But I have found a society dedicated to dedicated dialecticals. (izzata woid?)
http://www.americandialect.org/

I found that here:
www.burryman.com

and to save ya the time and trouble, I even scrolled down to the dialect section, which is the most plentiful list of resources I have seen listed on one site yet:
http://www.burryman.com/resources.html

And to answer your question? I've been writing in dialect alla m'life. I just didn't know it--nevah went no where else.

But I do think if it is employed, it should read easily and naturally. Some people do not like my use of slang and colloquialism. But some people do not like my writing either. *shrug*

It oughtta sound natural to the ear tho, and not like read like phonetic pronunciation.

I sincerely hope that my own attempts have passed my own standard.

Write what makes ya happy, lovie.

Ron

Administrator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

2 posted 2007-03-03 10:45 AM

How is the dialect being used?

* Some people speak with a dialect because it's the only way they've ever talked.

* Some people speak with a dialect because it's an affectation.

I think it's generally true that people, when they attend college (even a local one), tend to lose much of their dialect. They don't necessarily drop their accent, but they do start avoiding grossly ungrammatical constructions. They talk like their instructors talk. Even when they eventually leave college, they usually find themselves around people of similar background, and the dialect doesn't return -- unless they WANT it to return. If I spend more than a week with my Louisiana kin I start calling them kin instead of relatives.

Dialect, Southern or any other, is incredibly difficult to use because it so easily overpowers all other concerns -- even narrative. There can be no suspension of disbelief if the reader is struggling to understand what a character just said. In my opinion there are really only a handful of writers in the last hundred years that handle it well, both in terms of a really good ear and in knowing when and where to abandon the dialect. Personally, I wouldn't even dream of trying to use dialect in a poem or story beyond, perhaps, one or two quick phrases. Some call that representative dialect, or dialect that doesn't really try to be true to what the ear actually hears so much as what the brain interprets. Twain was probably the acknowledged master of representative dialect.

If you want to avoid making someone speaking in dialect appear uneducated, I think the trick will be to give them the opportunity to NOT speak in dialect at some point in the poem or story. Make it clear it's an affectation. Consider it part of revealing character.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

3 posted 2007-03-03 10:53 AM

*laughing*

Well, Reg? Since I am most certainly more than a handful--I guess I got an unexpected answer too.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

4 posted 2007-03-03 11:10 AM

I had to add something--

the very first poem I ever recited for my grade school class, was this:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/digriwyn/tales5.htm

My favorite novel, was, and remains,

To Kill A Mockingbird

that might explain a few thangs.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

5 posted 2007-03-03 11:32 AM

somebody STOP me!

How very boring life would be
if we were raised so properly
that vowels all said "ow" and "ooh"
and never dared to wink at you.

If all of us wore our white gloves
and sat up all tall and properly--
how could we discern the truth
to triage those who weary be?

Certainly, it is good rule
of etiquette and breeding, blue
blood of talent for the tale
insteada stickin' tongues atchoo!

But there is something about me
that is surely most unique--
it's something that I had unschooled--
to be myself and not be you.

Not that you are bad to be--
yer just a better Ron than me!

I'll shaddup now.

Larry C

Member Patricius

since 2001-09-10

Posts 10286
United States

6 posted 2007-03-03 01:05 PM

Reg,
See, Karen is proof dialect can be entertaining. But you gotta confess she looks silly there rollin' on the flo'.

A pity it's hard to be true to roots and still present our best. But on occassion truth hurts and needs to be said, specially if you ask. Daddy always said to honor the truth and know when to speak it. Hope we get to see the results.
Peace,
Larry C

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane,
I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Marge Tindal

Member Empyrean

since 1999-11-06

Posts 42384
Florida's Foreverly Shores

7 posted 2007-03-03 01:35 PM

Reg~
I not only enjoy reading poetry and prose with specific dialects worked into them, I also like writing them~

A 'dialect voice' gives a specific character the ability to spring to life before the reader, in my opinion~

Here is an archived piece here at PiP, titled, "Oh Widder Woman", that I can't imagine being told in any other way except for utilizing the language of the dialect in which it takes place~
/main/forumdisplay.cgi?action=displayarchive&number=31&topic=001825

Actually, if one gives deep thought to it ... much poetry springs forth effectively from a 'dialect' ...~

Will be very interesting to see how this thread continues~

~*The sound of a kiss is not as strong as that of a cannon, but it's echo endures much longer*~
Email - noles1@totcon.com

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

8 posted 2007-03-03 05:27 PM

"to not only reduce"

"to NOT speak"

You may improve your own dialect by avoiding split infinitives

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

9 posted 2007-03-03 07:47 PM

was I talking to you?

Nope.

I'll tell you all what Karen has decided--and I really don't care if makes me a "writer"- stamped and approved.

I'm going to write what I like, how I like, when I like, and if it happens to fit the guidelines here, then it will be here.

Everybody else can snuff a daisy.

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

10 posted 2007-03-03 08:58 PM

Who are the greatest American writers of the 20th century?

If a few Southern names don't pop in your head after hearing that question, you haven't read enough.

To deftly split an infinitive is one of the greatest tricks of the English language.

rwood
Member Elite

since 2000-02-29

Posts 3793
Tennessee

11 posted 2007-03-04 08:26 AM

Karen~Awesome! (said southern with a tryin’ mock of valley-speak.)

Thanks for the great links.

Loved the Burry site too. This quote caught me on the opening page.

“In the artistic world, the most solitary of disciplines may be that of the writer. There are few premieres or opening nights, gallery exhibits or unveilings. There is just the work, and the elusive promise of success.”

See, most of my works have always included elements of my dialect, too. I could say that I don’t know how else to write, but that’s not exactly true. If I’m writing from the core of who I am, my southern roots are as bold and evident as mad mink roots on a bleach-bottle-blonde, especially in artistic pieces. My phrasing gets most noted, and I have been scolded for using things like “thangs,” but I’m too rebellious to erase every thang in everything I write.

Critical papers and technical pieces are so taxing to me that I just wanna go get soused down at the pub and argue it out with some other Scots-Irish inflected/infected person to feel real again. If y’all could hear me speak, oh my, you’d know how far south my gerunds have gone with the wind.

Portraying another is a different story though. I do want to be mindful of what the world may perceive someone to be through my words.

I’ve always understood and enjoyed your writing, and in fact your dialect just makes your words hit closer to home with me, so don’t lose it, use it! Hehe.

Well, hon, we are definitely akin on our favorite novels. Harper Lee is the only one I know who did it so right the first time she didn’t have to write another. I also love her friend, Truman Capote. Alice Walker is another who deserved her Pulitzer, for “The Color Purple.” Masters of the southern written word to me.

Ron~ The piece I’m working on is a tribute to my daddy: A Father’s Day submission for publication. His speech/voice can be somewhat compared to Foghorn Leghorn and Yosemite Sam, which is funny, but part of his mastery and presence is how he delivers his intelligence through that type of speech. Does that make sense at all? I want to capture his character without slighting him or degrading his intelligence.

I’ll be sure to highlight and reveal how wise he is through speech an action, as well as how “colorful” and raucous. He can go from, “What thah blazin’ battles double-D barreled hell is going on?”(Sister-fights.) to “Ah have no comment on the mattra.” I can’t help but hope he thinks I’ve done right by him.

Yes, college and the business world tend to erase elements of dialect. And yes, Twain is tough to tango with, in the essence of dialect. No matter how simplistic, that man made the slightest utterances a work of art.

Larry~ Ain’t Daddies the greatest! Don’t worry, I’ll share.

Thanks so much for you.

Marge~ Wow! That piece reminded me of Eudora Welty. Fabulous word usage and yes, the dialect brought her to life. I’m happy you shared her with me.

Ess~ Au contraire, mon ami. That wouldn’t be as distinguishing now would it?

Improve on dialect? That’s how it gets gone. But in this case, I’ll admit my split infinitive faux pas and thank you for having such a keen eye. Don’t forget though, split infinitives are allowed in non-formal writing and in certain instances of formal writing. Even William Shakespeare used one. Peace, my word brother.

Brad~ I know, I listed my few above, which I’d nevah be able to compare my writing to theirs but they are a great influence and inspiration for me. I hate to say there are few today who are able to rise to the task of that level of writing. Charles Frazier is coming along.

Sunshine

Administrator

Member Empyrean

since 1999-06-25

Posts 63354
Listening to every heart

12 posted 2007-03-04 09:42 AM

Regina, a timely question, and a lot of great advice from everyone. Thank you for sharing this question.

Mysteria

Member Laureate

since 2001-03-07

Posts 18328
British Columbia, Canada

13 posted 2007-03-04 01:16 PM

J Store
Regina, this journal is a great reference, for all the southern dialects.  I can't imagine any writer from the south not using a dialect actually, but then I am just a little Canadian gal, eh!  Imagine William Faulkner's work without dialect?  I find J Store invaluable for researching.  I am not a great, or even good writer, but I sure love the art.

Here's another one for you Reg.
WriteSpot - Jamaican Patois

So?  When do we get a poem with dialect from you?  I can't wait.

Carpe' Diem

Mysteria

Member Laureate

since 2001-03-07

Posts 18328
British Columbia, Canada

14 posted 2007-03-04 01:51 PM

I forgot a great link you may enjoy Reg, this one you can hear poems as well as see then with dialect. I like this site as I find a huge difference in hearing a poem vs reading it.

The Poetry Archive

Larry C

Member Patricius

since 2001-09-10

Posts 10286
United States

15 posted 2007-03-05 07:25 PM

Seems I caused offense to Karen and would like to own my error. Without diminishing my apology I believe I was misunderstood. I'm truly sorry.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

16 posted 2007-03-05 08:41 PM

Oh Larry, c'mere.

I have a few other things on my mind and Ess? I didn't mean to hurt your feelings either.

It's not a good excuse for bad behavior, but my mom is sick and in icu and I guess I've been displacing all over the place again.

I think I oughtta shut this thing off awhile.

Larry C

Member Patricius

since 2001-09-10

Posts 10286
United States

17 posted 2007-03-05 10:22 PM

Karen,
I'm truly sorry to hear about your mom. Seems you've had far more than your share of stress. I pray that she recovers soon.

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane,
I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

rwood
Member Elite

since 2000-02-29

Posts 3793
Tennessee

18 posted 2007-03-07 08:30 AM

Awww.

Group hugs.

I hope your Momma's health has improved and is home, Karen.

Larry, you're a good man and thanks for caring.

Thanks Ms. Sunnyone. Your everlovin' light is always appreciated too.

Sharon, thank you so much for the links and my notes. I enjoy and appreciate them both, but I'll have to get permission for Insights, haha. I'm fixin' to post a little ditty here in just a bit. We'll see how it flies. Many hugs.

love,
reg

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

19 posted 2007-03-11 02:41 AM

.

http://quotations.about.com/cs/poemlyrics/a/To_A_Mouse.htm

.

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