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Being A Significant Other
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Being A Significant Other |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan 
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Under what circumstances should a woman consider committing adultery with a married man as acceptable or moral behavior? I didn’t have to go far for this question to pop up. John |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Why is the question about a woman only? You've skewed it so the immorality of adultery is a given. There can be no answer acceptable to you this way. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"I didn’t have to go far for this question to pop up." I'm confused. (again--so my apologies on that) But did you mean that you didn't have to go far in a personal relationship for the question to pop up? As to an answer, all I can say is that as a woman who happens to be someone's significant other, it would be extremely helpful for me if I felt significant. As for the morality of the desire, I don't have much of an answer to that either. I suppose anything can be rationalized (justified) but I'm the sort who can't lie when asked a direct question. Even if I could say the words, my eyes would tell the story. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Serenity, And you would be right. iliuuuibguibeiyuvbyvdyuviuoiinvoithofbio9 utituiobigui7bgo98g98h98nb7eg87fg6goh7988 --and that's what my daughter has to say about it.  |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Poet deVine, “You've skewed it so the immorality of adultery is a given.” Please argue that it isn’t. Let’s see the responses. John P.S. To serenity blaze, another co-worker situation. Somehow the office seems to be neutral territory in which someone, (in this case a woman), can broadcast. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: LOL. Isn't that a little inane, John? ANY argument removes something from the status of given. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
I can't think of any circumstances where it wouldn't be immoral. I can think of curcumstances where it would be understandable, but still, the bottom line, still immoral. The guy's wife will be betrayed, as well as the woman's husband or partner, if she has one. Someone will get hurt, other than the woman and the man directly involved. They will undoubtedly be hurt as well, but I think the greater consideration in this matter should be for the ones who will be hurt who have no say in the matter, the innocents in the situation. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
John, I can't think of any circumstance where a woman committing adultery with a married man would be moral. The whole question revolves around the rather simple question of whether adultery is an immoral action or not. Stephen. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Ron: quote: But can't we can all rationalize actions and tendencies which are contrary to very obvious conclusions (even against what we know to be our own best judgement- therein lies the guilt), things which most of society would call "given"? I think what John is asking is, can adultery ever have a sound defense? And yet, l'm still not sure why he's asking. John, why do you ask? Stephen. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Stephen, Simple curiosity brought on by an office incident. A very long time ago, I was with a woman who was absolutely incensed with her friends for their involvements in such affairs which, to her mind at least, they accepted if not sought openly. There had to be some rationale on their part. It was so often an experience to the woman that she had little faith in marriage being able to withstand such an environment, (she also had little confidence in any man’s ability to decline any opportunity for infidelity freely offered). John |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
"The most endangerd species the honest man will still survive annihilation" (RUSH, Permanent Waves) By the Grace of God may I add. Stephen (Hey if Brad can quote Neil , so can I) |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
“At last the good life came, good sleep, bright fruit, And Lazarus betrayed him to the rest, Who killed him, sticking feathers in his flesh To mock him. They placed with him in his grave Sour wine to warn him, an empty book to read; And over it they set a jagged sign, Epitaphium to his death, which read, The Good Man Has No Shape, as if they knew.” Wallace Stevens |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
I believe if a woman or man is considering adultry, they should think about everyone else involved in the stead of gratification...b/c when you do this, the hurt is not only irrepairable, but also can scar for years to come...there is no time when anyone should consider committing adultry...if it's that bad, then leave the spouse first. Besides, even if the person would leave their spouse for you, could you trust them after what they did with you to someone else? Dating married people is called cheating...its a lie...downright irresponsible, and involves so many more people then just the two???????? a woman/man knows when a candidate for marriage is trustworthy....when one puts all other desires aside.... If you know what you want and need in a spouse, you make a mental list, and you don't compromise those beliefs simply to have someone in your life, or in bed. To me, infidelity is unacceptable...and perhaps your lady friend has just not met anyone yet who is of her beliefs. I know many married men who are trustworthy and consider their wives/girlfriends way to precious to chance loosing. |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
It is always immoral to date when you are married. I would add, though, that in my opinion the burden of guilt is more centered on the cheating husband than his "significant other." Acceptable is a highly subjective term. Acceptable to whom? |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Skyfyre, Acceptable to the woman consciously considering engaging in adultery with a married man. John |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
In that case, it depends on the woman and the situation. Clearly, it is not an unknown occurance, so some woman somewhere must have found it acceptable. I had a friend in college who would only date married men. She had very little faith in the sanctity of any relationship and considered marriage to be God's biggest joke on the world. If you asked her to explain her attraction for married men, besides the usual "unattainable and taboo, therefore desirable" aspect she would note that when she was dating a married man, she never had to wonder if he was cheating on her. She knew - and that knowledge provided her some comfort, because she would never be shocked by finding out that "her man" had been unfaithful. Not saying she was right or wrong; it's just one view I've seen on the subject. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Skyfyre, "Not saying she was right or wrong. . ." Why not? John |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
quote: She's helping men to break the solemn oaths they made to their wives on their wedding day. Those men are betrayers to their life partners. What's the hesitation to just say it's wrong? It's plain as the nose on your face. She also betrays her own view, by saying that she is offended by the "unsanctity" of marriage ... and yet makes no efforts to work toward or restore that sanctity? That's hypocritical. Stephen. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
John, I must commend you, your posting of 4 or 5 threads at a time really helped the drought here on Philosophy 101. At least there's something to talk about now. Stephen. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: It's wong. Er, sorry, but I have a cold and the nose on my face is plain stuffed. More seriously, if you are going to pass judgment on those doing it, Stephen, shouldn't you also be holding court for those fantasizing about it? To condemn one more than the other, it seems, would be ... uh, what was that word you used again? |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
absolutely Ron, the fantasizing is wrong too ... and often leads to the other. A spade is a spade. But I'm not holding court for anyone. Meting out sentences, and declaring that some things are definitely wrong are two different things. A distinction you seldom seem to give expression to in your posts. And we can't even fight against lust in our own hearts unless we say it's really wrong, for others and ourselves. Stephen. |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
quote: Because I don't apply my moral standards to others unless they ask me to (she didn't, because she knew what I would say) or unless their actions affect me in some way. I didn't know the guys she dated or their wives, or I may have felt compelled to enlighten the wives. What she did wasn't illegal, and frankly it was none of my business, so it isn't my place to judge. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: That's because I see no such distinction, Stephen. The difference between public condemnation and public flogging is in degree, not kind. I'm still working out the vagaries of right and wrong for myself. That's enough for me. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
public flogging is one thing Ron, but, what is happening here in this time is that everyone is deeming it acceptable...I have to wonder about the mentality and concept of people when a show like "Desprate Housewives" has a following of 23 million...that in itself frightens the hell out of me....what society deems entertainment????? And like many shows, it is suggesting that that kind of behavior is acceptable. It promotes negative response and actions, instead of dealing with what could be little problems... Public flogging or not, someone's got to stand up for some sort of morals and thumbsdown to aggrivated moral assult. Again....no one is being asked to consider first the many hearts they hurt by such irresponsible behavior... Do I sound like an old fuddy guys...Good..cause it's wrong...wrong and an intentional assassination of relationships...trust...belief if the public doesn't get it soon and reverse this damage, where will it end? With millions of broken hearts? Come on guys, you write poetry, and understand the sensitivity of this subject and I'm certain that many of you have unfortuately experienced this. We are becoming a society which laughs at what we should deem as mature adults, immoral and corrupt. And again....I'm not judging anyone, I'm judging bad behavior! Which is what more people should do...we're promoting through television that it's ok to act like this...and it's not ok...to rip out peoples hearts, chew them up and spit them out....and that's what' s happening to families...is it no wonder children are confused when families become so dysfunctional? Is it any wonder teens are cutting themselves...committing suicide? No one seems to think about these things before...talk about self absorpstion? If you wanna mess around, then have the respect if not for yourself, for your families, to leave your spouse first! My goodness, doesn't anyone think about the children and the confusing signals they're being sent. How'd you like to sit down and tell your child...mommie or daddy's having an affair? Talk about taking away innocence? Destroying someone's life..for what, a moment of excitement? I'm speaking very emotionally about this b/c it is a subject which should be addressed...by millions....and has nothing to do with religion...just some respect for self, and others connected whom will be destroyed by such permissivness? Ron, I really believe if more people would deem this behavior unacceptable (public flaggings) perhaps we'd get our ship restored and ready to sail again? I dunno? What the answer is, but this is indeed how I feel and firmly stand by it. |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
I don't think I've read anyone that said it wasn't wrong. My point is that you have to pick your battles. Humans are flawed beings and are going to screw up - and touchy though this subject is, it isn't a heinous crime against humanity. Personally, if my husband found himself tempted to sleep with someone else, or even allowed himself to be seduced by her, I would consider that relationship to be over whether he broke it off with me or not. Whose fault would I make it? His, of course; he was the one who made the vows, not her. Not that I'd be inviting her to any tupperware parties.  There's really no point in crusading against something like this. You could make just as good a case against getting married when you aren't completely committed to one another. That's "wrong" too, correct? Is the 50%+ divorce rate in the US due to all those immoral women destroying marriages by sleeping with other womens' husbands? I somehow doubt it. Which, would you say, does more damage to the institution? |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
I would answer your question by replying infidelity to self and yes it is a crime...when innocent bystanders could be scarred for life by such selfish acts....I know, as I was on both side of this...and it was not just about two people, but all who love me. I deem it a crime that so many people feel so little worth for the other half and the children. I also deem it a crime for those people involved with one another, b/c what goes around does eventually come around...in guilt, the destruction of the lives of others, infidelity to your life, harmony, substance....it's a difficult lesson to learn, which some treat as if it were a game I've known of many people who were shot b/c of this... Maybe not a crime for encarsaration, but a crime of the heart or hearts. |
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Cloud 9 Senior Member
since 2004-11-05
Posts 980Ca |
Amen LeeJ! I couldn't of said it better myself. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Ron: quote: You need look no further than Jesus. Remember how he said to the woman caught in adultery "Go and SIN no more."? And at the same time, "Neither do I condemn you". Gee there's the very same paradox you said couldn't be. You're usually fine with paradoxes Ron, I don't know why you're particularly offended by this one. And before you say, "Well that's Jesus after all, not us." , I would point out to you that his followers went on to perpetuate the same apparantly contradictory views and instructions in their epistles to the Churches. Namely, "Speak the truth with love." Failing to call a spade a spade is not somehow more loving, for that avoidance of the issue is it? Remember, the mistake of the Pharisees was their intent and plan of action, not their doctrine. Stephen. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Skyfire: quote: But isn't that like asking which half of the scissors does the cutting? Crusading implies, meanspirited agression. But I think there is a need for vocalizing. Why? Because we live in a culture now where it's rationalized in so many ways, and there are many who simply haven't heard the older voice of reason and moral rightness. It's one of those unpopular truths which, though difficult to hear sometimes, can help keep people awake and aware that the trap is a trap. Of course, you are right, this is the negative side of the coin, which does little without the positive to fill the void. "Don't commit adultery" isn't enough. "Learn to value fidelity and learn to have good thriving marriages", can fill the gap. And there's much to be said positively on those subjects. Stephen |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: quote: My mistake, Stephen. I'm afraid I mistook your love for indignation and anger. If we are to address the truth with love, guys, we should probably talk about a few related issues. For example, since thinking about a sin is just as bad as committing a sin, Western women should stop dressing as if that's ALL they ever think about. The Muslim concept of hijab is therefore right, while bare bellies and naked heads is wong. Er, I mean, wrong. Of course, we also shouldn't forget our Catholic brothers, either. Anyone here divorced? Sorry, but you, too, are adulters and just as wong (arrg) as someone sneaking off to the nearest Motel 8. Shall I continue? My Amish neighbors still have a few words of wisdom about computers and technology you might enjoy? People who don't believe in marriage, hijab, or til-death-do-us-part are never going to be convinced by self-righteous anger. I think the best anyone can do is decide for themselves what is right and wrong and then try to set a good example. If you decide well, your life will be rich and others will want to follow your lead. If you decide poorly, your life will suck and no one in their right mind will choose to share your misery. "I don't choose to do that" has the potential to change people. "You're wrong and a hypocrite to boot," usually doesn't. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
People who don't believe in marriage, hijab, or til-death-do-us-part are never going to be convinced by self-righteous anger. I think the best anyone can do is decide for themselves what is right and wrong and then try to set a good example. If you decide well, your life will be rich and others will want to follow your lead. If you decide poorly, your life will suck and no one in their right mind will choose to share your misery. "I don't choose to do that" has the potential to change people. "You're wrong and a hypocrite to boot," usually doesn't. I firmly agree...well said |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
Personally, if my husband found himself tempted to sleep with someone else, or even allowed himself to be seduced by her, I would consider that relationship to be over whether he broke it off with me or not. Whose fault would I make it? His, of course; he was the one who made the vows, not her. Not that I'd be inviting her to any tupperware parties. ~smiling~ only because I have experienced this after a 30 year marriage...and would never do the same to any woman as was done to me...so like Lee, I would say why not leave the marriage/divorce/then go for the lusto (tongue in cheek)and funny how they come back after it wasn't all they thought it to be.... M oh..and don't get me into the discussion about porn...I am too opinionated on it!!! |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
quote: I agree. quote: Your premise is correct. quote: So far so good. Conclusion #1, correct (when western women do dress in this way, that is). quote: This extreme conclusion does not follow from your premise. (Here let me get you a tissue ... Oh, you were born without a nose??) quote: You're right. Though we don't want to fail in our compassion, the subject of divorce is now soft pedaled in our churches and communities. What kinds of things did Jesus say about divorce? Were they closer to "I'm okay, you're okay", or to his cousin John's style? quote: Shall you? I would be shocked if you didn't paint every possible grey, in every thread, to prove there's no such thing as black and white. That's why I won't even comment on the Amish one. quote: Perhaps you're right Ron. Perhaps I should examine my heart on these issues. I don't want to come across as always angry. And I certainly don't want to be a hindrance to anyone coming to know the truth ... or give anyone the idea that I'm pretending to be above moral struggles and sins. But there's a constant theme of yours I am skeptical of, and it's this ... that love and public moral disapproval can't mix. Some of the most loving and inspiring people, biblically speaking, have decried things publicly, and had more love in their pinky fingers, than in you and I put together. What do you think of John the Baptist? Wouldn't he be a biggot in your eyes? A moralist thug? self righteous? He was one of whom Jesus said was "more than a prophet". Of course you could say that I am no John the Baptist. But couldn't you follow the wisdom and consistency of your Lord, and at least say "Do what they say, but not what they do" when encountering a teaching that's correct in the mouth of someone whose integrity you doubt? And the thing about Jesus and the Pharisees was this: He really knew what wrongs they were doing, he didn't just assume. It just so happens that we live in a time when both moral words and examples are lacking. I want to be right in both, not just one. Stephen. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: It has never been your integrity I doubted, Stephen. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm having a difficult time understanding why anyone but the parties concerned would be concerned. |
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KristieSue
since 2003-01-31
Posts 1460PA, US |
I slept with a married man, but I didn't know he was married until afterwards. Was I guilty of causing him to cheat? In my eyes, yes. If I believe in the way I was raised (which I do) I shouldn't have been having sex in the first place. Had I respected the laws of sex/marriage I wouldnt have been in that situation. However, I'm not perfect and we all make mistakes... It took me a while to get over the fact that he'd done what he did but I learned. "Painting is poetry which is seen and not heard, and poetry is a painting which is heard but not seen." ~Leonardo da Vinci |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
serenity blaze, “I'm having a difficult time understanding why anyone but the parties concerned would be concerned.” Because, the parties concerned tend to talk about it to others whose own outlook can or is influenced. As I, in my example, said before: “I was with a woman who was absolutely incensed with her friends for their involvements in such affairs which, to her mind at least, they accepted if not sought openly. . . It was so often an experience to the woman that she had little faith in marriage being able to withstand such an environment, (she also had little confidence in any man’s ability to decline any opportunity for infidelity freely offered).” John |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
KristieSue, "It took me a while to get over the fact that he'd done what he did but I learned." Did you part with him? If yes, was it for that and how long after? John |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm assuming we're talking about adults here. Adults, I maintain, are responsible for their own actions. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
serenity blaze, The woman I was speaking of was twenty-two at the time and had been at her workplace less than two years. The infidelities spoken of there had a direct and severe impact on her view of marriage and fidelity within any relationship between a man and woman. John |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
John? She'll figure it out. Or she won't. I don't see what the problem is, m'self. I'm thinking in particular of a situation, wherein my girlfriend found out her husband was having an affair. She wanted me to go with her to confront the woman. "Why?" I asked her. "She didn't break any vows to you--she might not even know that you exist," I pointed out. My point is (and has been throughout other threads) that marriage is defined by the participants of each particular union. They do not have to adhere to a religious or moral code of our understanding or acceptance. The rest? Well, I suppose it's interesting enough diversion at the water cooler, but that is all it is. I'll spare ya the "just my humble opinion." OH.  Guess I won't. Maybe next time. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
serenity blaze, “She'll figure it out. Or she won't. I don't see what the problem is, m'self.” That is a "winner’s" stance. John |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
quote: Karen, that is absolutely true. But why isn't it still okay to discuss whether or not actions are good or bad, helpful or destructive, wise or unwise, etc ...? If we shouldn't do that, ever, then a large branch of philosophy (ethics) would be ruled out. And since adults can think and do some very childish things, and children can often be as wise as any adult, the word "adult" doesn't automatically exempt our actions / philosophies from criticism / discussion. quote: I think that though we can say we don't "adhere" to any particular moral or religious standard ... we still get hurt when these things happen, evidence to me that we don't create the standard. We're under it, not over it. Stephen. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I feel like I missed something here. I didn't intend to imply that discussion was somehow off limits. (Um, I showed up for this one, didn't I?) and I'm not sure what is meant by "a winner's stance" either. *scratching my head* So I guess I am officially confused. But I'm still not going to ask the young lady in question to answer to me for her behavior. So yep, I'm puzzled. I know many married couples who have "agreements" regarding what constitutes disloyalty/adultery, and I'm not going to argue with them either. It's simply none of my business. I have absolutely no idea what defines a marriage between other couples, and I am just beginning to understand that my own is redefined daily as evidenced by me and my husband. And even in that particular situation, he may decide that there is a rational reason to disregard our chosen vows, but even that doesn't exempt my own responsibility, according to my own views. Under a standard? I think it's my own. I'm still here, doing what I promised to do, and I shudder at the "devil made me do it" train of thought that would seemingly nullify personal responsibility. My husband has many single friends and he often goes out with them, and I know full well there are situations that arise (note my discretion--ahem) that would be considered tempting if not downright unseemly. But even as the "situations" arise, I do consider him the ultimate responsible party. And let's just suppose for a minute, that he was unfaithful as a result of being the target of someone who didn't share my moral viewpoint of marriage. He might very well attempt to justify that using that same rationale (in fact, it sounds just like him) but according to my personal view, that would still not exempt me from my own promises. It took me 26 years to marry this guy, because I do take my vows that seriously. And oh yes, there's temptation always, but as I said previously, I've got this thing about responsibility, and as much as I would have liked to disregard that, I'm just not the sort who can. Now, if you'd like to continue this discussion in Grok, I'd be happy to tell you how getting married ruined my sex life.  (c'mon, Stephan, it's a teeny jest, m'friend! Smile with me?) |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
quote: Nor, would it exempt his responsibility, I think. quote: Ever asked yourself why you're so convinced that people ought to keep their word? That is a standard that you didn't make up. Just because you might believe in a moral standard from Heaven, doesn't mean you have to adopt a "devil made me do it" mentality. You might be able to say "I acted like the devil", but never "The devil made me act". quote: He could use the same rationale, indeed. But I think that deep inside you consider your moral view to really be wider than just yourself ... else you would have no right to even feel a bit peeved about his (theoretical, I hope) behavior. That anger, is a natural and right response to a wrong committed. The best advisors tell us that we should try to love and forgive ... not that anger is wrong. Sometimes it's nearly a sin NOT to be angry. The Bible even states, "Be angry and sin not." What a difficult balance, but I think it's the right one. quote: Karen, I think that's awesome. I admire that in you. quote: Well I guess sometimes keeping honor, can be preferrable even to the most physically gratifying sex life ... as hard as that may be for some of us to imagine. Stephen. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Smile... I knew this one was coming: "Ever asked yourself why you're so convinced that people ought to keep their word? That is a standard that you didn't make up." And yes, Stephan, I agree, that one I got my from my parents. Both of whom have cringed at my determination in this relationship, saying, "that's not we meant." A standard, though, I thought was like a "curve" in class grading. Should I have gone by a 'standard', according to the pervasive view of influence that you have been so adamant in regarding as to a pollutant to my spiritual health, as according to the calculations deemed standard by my particular aspected society, I would be due, hmmm, I figure, what? Two divorces and at least five affairs. Should I pack for Cancun? Standards and procedures would dictate a "yes." Smile. (Even if you agreed to that logic, I couldn't do it.) But to speak to you in your own language, Stephan, 'God' gave us all free will. I look to that same example, when I think, "If you want a baby to walk, take the baby off your hip." My spiritual appreciation is akin to that analogy. I don't WANT my baby to skin his knees, but he is certainly likely to do so, as he learns to walk. you see? Anything more than that, and my child would never grow up. (We do agree more in the spirit than you might surmise, Stephan.) I just think you are confusing your own path with an exclusive. And it's completely understandable too, considering how well that faith has done for you. But completely unacceptable to others, and sometimes you just have to concede to God that he/she knows what they are doing, yes? Anything else would seem sort of disrespectful to me. The acknowledgement of a God must begin with the faith that they/he/she/it has the ability to appear to people in forms that they can personally understand. How could we claim a personal relationship otherwise? |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Karen: quote: Yes. That doesn't mean everyone else does though. Including me. What that doesn't mean, is that he has failed to give us some plain directives. Understanding and cooperation are two different things. I've told you before that most of my spiritual problems manifest about 18 inches beneath my brain (and that's probably true of many). Since heads talk, they tend to steal the heart's applause.quote: No argument there. Stephen. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Stephen is awesomely cool. (and if you give me a break on small sized hot sauce,I think can promote that for you. Well, that, and you need an La. License from the FDA--I did check. ) |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Karen, The three guys I was "in business" with, all decided to move away ... one to Missouri, one to Colorado, and one to Africa. The hotsauce business is therefore not so hot.  But I've got a few boxes left ... and I'd be glad to set you up while it lasts. Stephen. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
I bring this up because the threads are at least remotely related ... What happened to the Bunny thread? I came back after a few days, and it was gone without so much as a foot print. Was the subject matter off limits? Or did the discourse become too heated? Hare today gone tommorow? (turning my attention away from bunnies, to turkeys for a moment ... I wanted to say to all of my philosophy friends, "Happy Thanksgiving".) (Karen ... remind me of your address, and I'll set up a special holidays hotsauce delivery) Stephen. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"Hare today?" Very bunny, Stephan.  Try the Grok forum. It did indeed, become an Adult topic. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Now you just made my night. I can't wait to tell my son. And seriously, Stephan? You need to market that stuff properly. I'm from N.O. and I KNOW hotsauce, and your recipe is perfection.  gawd I love this place  |
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