The Alley |
..Question... |
QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
I'm confused and asking this question for comments. Does belonging to a clique Improves ones character? |
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BluesSerenade Member Patricius
since 2001-10-23
Posts 10549By the Seaside |
That's the way to break the ice!!! Touche' QJ~ You're kidding, right???? |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
No i'm not kidding ,,I'm asking a question? [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-02-2003 11:25 PM).] |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Belonging to a clique definately shapes one's character, however,I'm not sure if it definately improves one's character. Example would be Farmer Ted (michael Anthony Hall's character in 16 Candles). He was the king of the dweebs. It definately shaped his personality... did it improve it??? I don't know. I am a member of the Marine Corps League. Not only has it shaped my personality, however it has also improved me tremendously. Luckily, there is no one on here that can remember me back then top gtestify to the changes. The fact is that in this case, the "clique" I run with DID change me for the better. I guess the answer would be that it all depends on the clique. We are all equal but we’re individually different |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
I see in yout case that joining a clique inproved your character that's great. thanks ringo,, however i'm still confused by the definations posted here. clique \Clique\, n. [F., fr. OF. cliquer to click. See Click, v. i.] A narrow circle of persons associated by common interests or for the accomplishment of a common purpose; -- generally used in a bad sense. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. clique \Clique\, v. i. To To associate together in a clannish way; to act with others secretly to gain a desired end; to plot; -- used with together. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. clique n : an exclusive circle of people with a common purpose Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-03-2003 12:00 AM).] |
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Kaoru
since 2003-06-07
Posts 3892where the wild flowers grow |
I think improving one's character should include more than a "clique" of friends.. Sharing interests? That's fun..but where will you learn the new stuff that way? |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
Thank you Kaoru for your reply,,, |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Establish the type of clique, and where one's character is when first joining...and we can go from there. |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
thank you "K" but isn't a clique a clique? by definition they all appear the same to me? [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-03-2003 07:37 PM).] |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Glenn, I have seen many forms of cliques, going all the way back to grade school. They're everywhere, everyday. While your definitions show "similar" uses of the words, still one definition shows "To associate together in a clannish way; to act with others secretly to gain a desired end; to plot" and then another, "an exclusive circle of people with a common purpose", which does not show any intent of "plotting" or any other devious equation. Cheerleaders, football teams, computer experts, when gathered as a group, discussing a common interest, could very well be perceived as a "clique". When I gather with my legal professional peers, we could be a large "clique", as we are sharing a common bond, understanding, and interest. All of the above could "improve one's character". However, when used in a negative sense, i.e., to "plot", would denote that it would be a lowering of character or devious actions of several characters together. So, again, I take you back to my original question to you: "Establish the type of clique, and where one's character is when first joining...and we can go from there." [This message has been edited by Sunshine (09-04-2003 09:19 AM).] |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
Does belonging to a clique Improves ones character? ------------------------------------------- The above was and still is my question? from my studies (dictionary) a clique is only people of a common interest, and they only share this interest within, therefore it appears that only those in the clique receive the benefits and those not are deprived of those benefits, so i ask again does a clique improve charactor? I don't believe it matters the type of clique that one is involved with, all cliques hold a common interest, excluding others from that interest, So should i seek a clique to improve my character? or remain independent as i presently am? |
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Sunshine
Administrator
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since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Now that you've added to the question, I would say, only you could know, by trial and error, of either being in one, or not. I don't know that you can "join" a clique. I think they "form" - by others labeling certain groups as such. I never think of myself in a "clique" - and yet, someone else may assume just that. I guess I don't have the answer, Glenn. |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
Thank you "K" your Input on this subject has helped me to better understand the If's and but's and reasons for cliques, however in my best judgement I belive my independence gives me character that I can't be Influenced to make decisions that are not necessarily mine but made by a quorum for me. Again I treasure your Input, thank you glenn [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-04-2003 01:06 PM).] |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
We're all in the PIP clique! One may not consider themselves part of a clique -- but they are certainly part of an Oikos. There is no escaping it -- unless you're on a desert island. This is the best web info I've found -- which doesn't exactly correspond with other research I've read regarding numbers but it hits the concept pretty close: quote: from http://www.shareonhousechurch.net/html/resources/Book-_About_Oikos_-_by_Ralph_Neighbour.html |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
Local Rebel,, Thank you for your input however I have no more interest in knowing about a organised group that shares only their common interest amongst a choosen few, I shall remain independent and free of such. QjQ glenn [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-04-2003 02:27 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: I think we should all hope for that possibility, Glenn. Your studies, after all, would indicate that we all grew up in one. Rarely is there a more exclusive clique than that of family. LR, forgive me, but that is simplistic to the point of deception. We are now to measure the quality of human relationships by the minute? |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
Thanks Ron Now I'm really confused? I was unaware that my family was a clique? It has always been my beleif that blood was thicker than water and thats why my family stuck togeather, or at least one of many reasons. [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-04-2003 09:47 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Glenn, none of the three definitions you offered examined the motivation behind a clique. A group of people with like interests, come together for a common purpose, with often selfish goals, sounds a lot like a family to me. A pretty good family, in fact. Because, yea, blood is thicker than water. But I think love, of any kind, is also thicker than water. Thicker, even, than blood. The ties that bind a group of people are far more important, I think, than how exclusive they are, or how secretive they are, or even whether their goals are selfish. Clique is a loaded term, and the real definition depends on the viewpoint of the person using it. There are tons of words like that if you look for them. I'm a patient man, but he's a procrastinator. I'm a neat person, but she's anal. I have a group of supportive friends, but those others are just a clique. Maybe we should change your question a little? If a group relationship can improve one's character, is it still a clique? |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
If a group relationship can improve one's character, is it still a clique? ________________________________________________ So does one who is independent of groups and who makes there own unbiased decisions lose character or popularity within such group? [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-04-2003 10:27 PM).] |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
So forgiven Ron, although -- I'm not sure for what though-- we've never been bashful about opining round these parts. I'd say that we might have a basis for an agreement with the exception of the word quality. (And deception.) If I describe gravity (if I may use a Ron-like analogy ) as an invisible force that will cause a ball to fall towards the earth when released from my hand -- that's simplistic. But it's accurate. And it's sufficient for living life day-to-day on Terra Firma. One of the drawbacks of discussing a complex issue, that is seemingly just common sense, on a bbs is that its difficult to do it in a few paragraphs and maintain interest. No doubt the few that I posted would have the majority of PIP yawning in a heartbeat. I'm not particularly fond the way this author writes nor the gentleman Pattison that he quotes (imagine categorizing any group of people as 'normal' -- everyone is neurotic -- it's just a matter of degree) but, due to limited search time this was the best page that I could hit... imagine my surprise when I did a google on psychotic oikos and the very top page was -- MINE! It does put forth the fundamentals of the psychosocial system though as I studied them in management training (more on that path in a second). The word quality is probably one of the most abused in the English language -- but, I think I'm safe in assuming that your usage here means the measure of a relationships' benefits, caring, etc. And I think that's an appropriate usage of the term -- just not a proper application for synopsis. If you used the word 'significant' in place of quality then you'd have it. The likely source for confusion here is the author's use of the word 'quality time' when he sets up the concept in the first paragraph. He later appropriately points out though that there are some people in our oikos that are forced upon us. The alcoholic mother, the daughter-molesting father. If writing bad poetry was criminalized and I was justifiably convicted and sentenced to a jail cell with Charlie Manson he would be a significant member of my oikos along with the prison guards -- hardly 'quality' human relationships -- but significant. As I pointed out in my above post these numbers don't really jive either with my management training. I wish I could lay my hands on the appropriate material but I can't even really remember which source it came from -- my best guess right now is Harvard Business School... but, I digress... I thought it was interesting that the quoted study looks at human interactions over the period of a week -- probably due to the fact that this is written from the perspective of the impact of the psychosocial system on evangelism and meta-church building. The management focus looks at the oikos on a daily basis and basically suggests, in a nut shell, that any manager that tries to directly supervise the accomplishments of more than twelve people is NUTS. As I pointed out in the other thread this is due to how many waking hours in a day there are.. period. So, yeah -- significant relationships are limited due to minutes. The American business paradigm being what it is -- that employees--including and maybe especially managers-- do not exist outside of business life I found it odd that they would say 12 is a number that can be managed -- if you add in a few family members that require 'quality' interaction every day and maybe a friend or extended family member that number goes down... I found my own sweet spot to be around 6. I can get really complex with this in effecting cultural change in an organization utilizing the natural oikoses? (not sure how to pluralize that) that will form and it's a very effective tool -- but -- yawn! I've bored myself One thing that did catch my attention from the referenced work though was the mention that some people have dead people in their oikos -- a notion that never occured to me having studied it from a business perspective -- but -- one to which I can relate since I am one of those people. [This message has been edited by Local Rebel (09-05-2003 12:55 AM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
A wisdom of owls. A pride of lions. An exaltation of larks. A richness of martens. An ostentation of peacocks. and... A clique of poets? [This message has been edited by Essorant (09-05-2003 03:41 AM).] |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"A Ron-like analogy" made me smile wide... but Ess? Indeed. "a clique of poets" was and remains there right on the money. But it IS a grand tradition... Thanks for the smiles. All of you. Gawd I love this place... |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
Thank You Essoran for your input,,enjoyed your thoughts,, |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
Thank You serenity blaze for your interest and comments,, |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Why not a Passion of Poets? or.....a Serenity of Poets?? [This message has been edited by Essorant (09-05-2003 03:47 AM).] |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
After reading the comments on this thread and others, I still hold firm that I'm not interested in so called cliques or any other activity that sets their own standards apart for their own benefit,, and that does not benefit the general public. [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-06-2003 08:23 AM).] |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
A Serenely Passionate Clique of Passionate Poets... works for me! |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Glenn, I added the above before I read your response. I don't think it's a matter of whether or not you think you've "joined a clique" on your own accord - I believe others might think it's a matter of perception. Does Glenn "belong" to Passions in Poetry? No. Is he a "member"? Yes. E.g. - Glenn belongs to a clique of poets. Again...that could be the perception of an outsider [one who is not a member] OR the perception of one who is a member, and feels people need to be labeled. |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
It has been my belief that Passions of Poetry is a public forum for the public to post poetry, My question that started this thread was only a general interest question about does a clique improve ones character and not about Passions in Poetry, then after reading many responses i gained knowledge, And then i made a independent decision and posted it, After reading the comments on this thread and others, I still hold firm that I'm not interested in so called cliques or any other activity that sets their own standards apart for their own benefit,, and that does not benefit the general public. [This message has been edited by QjQ (09-06-2003 09:47 AM).] |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Closed by request of Poet. |
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