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Why are fast readers picked on?
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Why are fast readers picked on? |
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the_loner_23 Member Ascendant
since 2002-06-08
Posts 5479Jacksonville, Florida, USA 
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I mean some people are natrually fast readers. That doesn't mean they don't take in what they read. But some people think "Oh they are reading it too fast. Their replies must be fake." Well that is not always the case. People like me and my Dad can fly through reading something and still get the jest of it. But 2 people on this site, I am not mentioning any names, have been harassing me about it. I can't help I am a natural born speed reader. Good grief. Cold hands means a warm heart |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Why not mention names? Mentioning names is a good thing while not mentioning names on the other hand infers that the unnamed people have a good reason to remain unnamed – like they’ve committed a cardinal sin or something, attested to by the very fact that they can’t be named. If I wasn’t one of the two before you may have to amend the number of sinners to three (and my name is Craig if anyone is interested). On the 25th Sept 2002 I posted a poem called Flowers for the Passers-Bye, a crappy ditty of fifteen lines that made about as much sense as a chocolate ashtray. I posted at 07:25 and went back into the poem to make sure it was there, imagine my amazement when I saw a reply by yourself posted at, and wait for it, 07:25. Here’s the reply I posted: quote: Did you read it - get the gist of it - hit the reply button - type your reply - hit the submit button all within less than 60 seconds? Or did, as I presumed at the time, the forum software throw a wobbly and post your reply on the wrong poem? |
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the_loner_23 Member Ascendant
since 2002-06-08
Posts 5479Jacksonville, Florida, USA |
I am a fast typer too. So it could all be possible. Cold hands means a warm heart |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Awesome |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
The point of a poem is to get the gist? |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Poems have gists? Are they connected to the funny bone?  I can sometimes read a poem in a minute..if it's short...and not complicated. |
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sea_of_okc Senior Member
since 1999-06-15
Posts 568Oklahoma City, OK, USA |
Shoot I can read a poem in seconds and post a reply in seconds also. Now understanding the poem and posting a thoughtful reply well... I'd kinda like to get to 1000 posts maybe I can write a program that will automatically post "nice write" "good job" "I enjoy your work" and about a dozen other "pat" replies so it won't take so much effort. hmmmmmmm |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
I want some of this 'gist' y'all are talking about. I've been writing stuff just by putting words together to make them sound pretty... I think I missed something somewhere...  Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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sea_of_okc Senior Member
since 1999-06-15
Posts 568Oklahoma City, OK, USA |
Oh by the way I know Craig and personally I can read one of his poems 20 times and meditate on it 4 or 5 hours and still not have a clue what the gist of it is LOL |
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RSWells Member Elite
since 2001-06-17
Posts 2533 |
Perhaps paranoia could be relieved by personalizing responses specific to the poem. That way it wouldn't appear as a canned response and prove that a speed reader can also absorb the intent of a work which (ordinarily) takes time and effort to compose. I've noticed too, in a more obvious place (past forums) that some individuals post two responses in the same minute. I've found my way around this site pretty well by now and don't see where anyone wins anything by being prolific in responses, just the occasional note in announcements. |
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ThunderMage Senior Member
since 2002-06-20
Posts 812Canada |
The point of poetry is the feelings it conveys, not the "gist" or whatever. Poetry comes from your heart and soul, not your mind. What is life without poetry and adventure? |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Thundermage - that's just not true...perhaps your poetry comes from only your heart and your soul, but I don't think you have the right to speak for others.. Mine comes from my heart, and my mind - my mind first usually. Julie hon - you've done the same to me. Can you appreciate how a person might feel that you haven't really thought about their poetry when you post 'awesome write' in the same minute the poem was posted? Just something to think about.. K |
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Janet Marie Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554 |
Well Julie I am really glad you cleared this up for me, and as you can see by the responses to this, quite a few poets have noticed your reply habits and wondered. So if sending you an email is "harrassing" you, then I am guilty as charged...but since you opened this up in a public forum instead of handling it privately in email, I will respond in the same way--- I stand by my reasons for sending it. You replied to not one but 2 poems that night in one minutes time..and one of the poems was a 13 verse prose style piece with 687 words. You say you got the "jest" ... well then who am I to argue, in the end youre losing out if the "jest/gist" is all your getting. Perhaps, since you type so fast, you could spend a little more time on your replies and let the poet know you got the "jest". You are lucky to have such a gift, I type slow..and sometimes spend up to 10 mins on one indepth reply post..but when I get done..the poet knows I've read the poem and seen the work and thought that went into their write..not just the "jest of it" But hey...to each his own...if a thumbs up smiley is what works for you...go for it. The moth apologizes for "harrassing" you. Hey Crazy Eddie..check your email  |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Julie - I'm with Wells on this one. If you're going to read and reply that quickly, maybe say something a bit more personal than "beautiful" or "awesome write." If you personalize it a little more you can indicate to the reader that you actually did read the poem and understand it. I make a point in my replies of proving to my reader that I read and appreciated the poem. Sometimes it doesn't take much, but there are some poems (and some poets ) that I can give a lot of time towards replying to.I know replying to others is how you harvest replies to your own work, it's not a huge secret why people read poetry in 45 seconds and distribute replies in control-Vs... but I think you should give poets a bit more credit than that. People obviously don't appreciate your replies if they disbelieve you've even bothered to read their poem at all. I'm just trying to give some advice, not attack you at all... just give some advice that I think you might find useful. If you read and appreciate the poetry of others on this site, don't get defensive when they challenge the quality and content of your response... instead of getting defensive, make an effort towards proving them wrong. Take a little time, you're obviously not impressing anyone with your typing and reading speed, so much as insulting and upsetting them. Poetry isn't just something you read and digest like a chapter in a textbook, it's meant to provoke a response in the reader. No matter how fast a reader you are, that response rarely exists within a 60-second time frame. And if you aren't in fact some speedreader, but are, rather, someone who hands out thoughtless replies as a way of getting others to read and respond to your own work, then you should perhaps reconsider your role here at Passions in Poetry. We all want to recieve something from this place, but we equally have to give something back. That's what makes this site such a wonderful place to be. Reconsider your own actions before you stand to defend them. Do you reply for your sake or for the sake of others? Most people here reply as a way of saying "thank you" or "I have read and appreciated your poem, and this is what I have to say." For the most part, we do it for the sake of the person who wrote the poem. So why is it that you defend your own actions, when the persons complaining are the ones whom you should be trying to please in the first place? That's all I'm going to say... "Faith" means the will to avoid knowing what is true. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
In my best Moe's (from The Simpsons) voice, "Whaaaaa?" |
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Marge Tindal 
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384Florida's Foreverly Shores |
HeyJulie~ I also am a speed reader (and writer, by the way ! )~ So I do understand that you can 'get' it in a once-over-easy read~ I would interpret that as being a compliment to the poet, that their poetic piece was easily comprehended and enjoyable to the reader.  I don't understand the flak ... but, shucks, if you enjoy doing what you're doing ... by all means do it ... and continue to do it well !  Hon ... you're a sweetie ... stay that way~ *Huglets*  ~*Marge*~ ~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~ |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
well. after having read this thread... ( slowly but not too slowly I might add) I think perhaps some people are concerned that a reply is being posted that may have no meaning..may just be a canned response.. What I am not sure of... is why it bothers people... I know when JM responds she has read it though about it and tried to put herself wher the author intended.... and yes..she may spend 10 minutes doing it... and when she reads my one or two line reply to something she has posted...I think she knows I too have tried to do the same thing.. even though...the only words that come out are beautiful.. or wonderful write.... on the other hand... there are some replies that leave me wondering... still...I accept them and some over time I understand to mean more than the simple phrasing or the few words spoken... how much time anyone spends on a poem or on a written piece in trying to understand or appreciate it.is truly up to them..and I am not insulted by either a lack of time spent or too much time spent... |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
I performed a random sample of replies to 3 poems, and here is what I found: 17 replies - No direct comments were made in reference to the subject matter of the poem. 11 replies - Most of these made somewhat of a reference to the poem's subject matter, out of the 11, only 2-3 were actually bonafide replies dealing with the subject matter of the poem. Which makes me wonder...how many other speed readers do we have on this site? |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
LOL.. OPeth.. a nice sampling to draw statistical conclusions from would of course have to be much larger, but inferences may be drawn from your findings.. 1.people may not know how to respond to a oem and therefore do not reference the subject matter and or feel they fail in understanding of style to be able to comment on it. 2. People don't give a damn and it is all a game.. post and reply to as many as you can the heck with poetry. 3. Some of the poetry has little value to anyone and so people reply in an absent way. 4. poets are here for ego only and therefore do not think replying is important. What is important is posting yur next poem and having eceryone else reply to it. the ego after all demands constant feeding and the words that are being shared are so much more worthy of the reply than the others. 5. all this is driven by what is percieved in the other persons mind as being proper and or the correct way to do things. we could go on... and while I might say these things could be inferred from your survey... and maybe even statistically proven that most people do not reply in a meaningful way to poetry.. I would ask to what end? Because in the end..people are people..and will continue to be people with all their own shortfalls and failings. Is it worse to have replies that you think mean little or no reply at all? answer to that of course depends again on the person asked.. sorry had to come back to this... reminded me of writers being like winemakers.. they use their skill and talent at blending the right words grown in the proper climate then aged in care before being presented to sample... and knowing that if consumed they will "sell" their labors for the profit... perhaps of praise..perhaps of knowing the nuances and hues of each vintage will be appreciated and recognized... but you know... whether the wine is drunk from a paper bagged bottle or out of chrystal... as long as it is consumed..to some measure the goal has been met... someone tasted the fruit as the author presented it.... [This message has been edited by Cpat Hair (03-12-2003 12:38 PM).] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"LOL.. OPeth.. a nice sampling to draw statistical conclusions from would of course have to be much larger, but inferences may be drawn from your findings.." ~ I think you may be right, the magic number is 30, but in this instance, I don't know if that number should apply to the poems sampled or the replies sampled. |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
 tongue in cheek humor..I do appreciate.. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
I think your 1 and 4 are probably most likely to be true. I did fail to mention, that I don't have a stake in the topic of this thread. I performed my brief survey just to see what I would find. People are people, and why and how they reply to poems on this site is peronal, so be it. I really found this thread to be quite silly, indeed. [This message has been edited by Opeth (03-12-2003 12:42 PM).] |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
LOL.. and we.. being human.. no matter hw silly we might have thought the thread..are here.... It figures... LMAO |
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sea_of_okc Senior Member
since 1999-06-15
Posts 568Oklahoma City, OK, USA |
Regardless of the "quality" of response I would like to think most poets here devote at least an equal amount of their time to reading and replying as they do to writing what they post. Perhaps the thread was started for a rather silly reason but I find Cpat and Opeth's obversations quite interesting. Opeth says he believes 1 and 4 are most likely to be true and I say the true measure for whether an author falls into 4's category is the balance of time spent replying compared to composing. I think anyone who spends hours writing and only puts in 20 or 30 minutes reading others is not doing justice to the spirit of Passions. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Opeth, were the poems in question submissions for the book? I think some of those are reposts and are getting cursory replies just so the reader can vote. Take a sampling of poems from Open 22 and let's see what you get. |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
since you happened to be blessed with such amazing reading and typing speeds, perhaps you could take the remaining time and use it to correct your grammar and spelling. that way no one would notice you're such a fast typer and it would avoid such mistakes as 'jest'. it's a win-win situation. /jen/ 'Christianity is the complete negation of common sense and sound reason.' -- Mikhail Bakunin [This message has been edited by quietlydying (03-14-2003 05:36 PM).] |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Yeah, I'm going for 1 and 4. Only becaue I'm one of those self-important, egomaniacs who only want others to read my marvelous work and comment on it. I would prefer long, in-depth commentary, so I know that the reader has gleaned something from my work... oh hell, who am I kidding? I love replies and I like to get bumped, but when I write a piece it has (or maybe not) meaning to me that may or may not be apparent to those who read it. I am fond of thinking that poetry is a multi colored canvas, each of us sees something different on the same canvase. I like to hear what others think my poetry means, but I also cringe inside (just a little) when the reader makes assumptions of the meaning of the poem. One could write a poem about being raped and will get a dozen responses tell them to 'hang in there' or to 'get some help' or you have my sympathies, etc. All assuming that the poem is a reflection of the reality of the poet's life and not merely a poem she or he wrote. What the heck was I talking about? I hate it when that happens.... Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
ps jen - it's happen, not happened...  . [This message has been edited by Severn (03-14-2003 03:37 AM).] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"Opeth, were the poems in question submissions for the book? I think some of those are reposts and are getting cursory replies just so the reader can vote. Take a sampling of poems from Open 22 and let's see what you get." ~ They random sampling was drawn from the Open 22 folder. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Severn, depends whether she means "blessed" as an adjective or a past-tense verb. Come on now, Jen knows what she's doing.  |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
(chuckling)... my my we are a sensitive bunch aren't we... I happen to be blessed with a high reading and comprehension "skill".... and can often pull the meaning from a poem in rather short order..then respond rather quickly as well.. Now just because I can..does not mean that in the process I truly took time to appreciate the nuances and word play that are so much a poets brush... still doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the poem or think it was an excellent piece... I also enjoy, however, the nuance and subtle shift of image and line employed in writing good poetry..so I slow myslef down. Often end up reading two or three times before I ever comment..or let it sit a while and go back to it before commenting.. but that is because I enjoy that aspect of poetry. Some... only enjoy the meaning or the telling and as long as the telling does not trip itself up..they are satisfied with it. Some... enjoy the feeling of belonging someplace and being able to comment on things they themselves might never be able to write... I'm guilty of this at times.. Some... enjoy the technical aspect and rules of writing. All should be according to form and rule for the piece to be successful or well done. Some... some just touch places with their words and with their comments that others are afraid to venture.. tell me... are any of them wrong? by the way... if I made errors in my grammer or spelling... please overlook them unless they truly cloud the meaning of what it was I tried to say... I admit to the misuse of both..and while not intentional.. I'm just not as well educated or gifted as some of the others on here.. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
I cannot overlook them, Ron!! When you refer to "grammer" you remind me of my dear departed grandma 'cause that's what I used to call her. Stop that!!!! |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
LOL.. sorry sir... my wrongs again obscure any intent... as Wind told it...I'm kind a scary when I have these outbursts... maybe I need to up my medication...oh no..I already did that... maybe I need to quit taking so much of it.. LOL |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Come now LP - how would Jen know whether Julie had been blessed with good grammar and spelling in the past? However, if that had indeed been the case the rest of Jen's sentence makes no grammatical sense as the present tense instructional phrase of 'use it' is in error when pitted with the past tense 'happened'... ...I think Jen would prefer to have only one error in her post - don't you? Btw... 'blessed' is a verb - and it couldn't be an adjective at any rate because that would conflict with the present tense adverb 'to be.' (Ron - ignore me, I was merely being ironic in pointing out Jen's error, and as far as LP's concerned - plain ol' nasty...heh)...  K[This message has been edited by Severn (03-14-2003 11:42 PM).] |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
you're being extremely irritating. would you like me to go through your posts and correct every one of your grammatical errors? why don't you go do something productive? /jen/ 'Christianity is the complete negation of common sense and sound reason.' -- Mikhail Bakunin [This message has been edited by quietlydying (03-15-2003 12:29 AM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Sure. I think that would be fun. |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Good grief! I have posted an instant response to a poem before just because I wanted the first slot. Then I've gone back and spent time writing a post to that couldn't be done in that first minute.  If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Jen, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you went and did that.  |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
My my - bit sensitive there eh Jen? So let me get this straight - you can tell Julie to correct her grammar and punctuation in a really sarcastic way and yet you can't handle one mistake being pointed out? Shrug...yeah, I can see how that might work.. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Geez you guys, give it a rest. Don't make me hand out flowers. |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
i wasn't being sarcastic - i was making a point. if she doesn't want people to think she doesn't care, then maybe she should take more time with her replies. [even if it is to correct her spelling. which i admit is rather ironic because in the above post i was typing too quickly to notice my own error, but i'm not the one who is accused of using ctrl-v for every reply.] i wasn't talking to you, i was talking to the_loner_23. so why bother getting involved and posting arrogant messages to someone who really wasn't that concerned with your opinion in the first place? /jenthequeenofrunonsentences/ 'Christianity is the complete negation of common sense and sound reason.' -- Mikhail Bakunin [This message has been edited by quietlydying (03-16-2003 01:29 AM).] |
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Amara Member
since 2003-02-23
Posts 158East of the moon, west of the sun. |
*whistles softly* I'm not commenting. I myself, having read this post, have realized a couple of things. A) I need to try to make my replies more personal, and B) I need to watch my grammatical, typing, and spelling skills more. Thank you all for the insight, and I have started to make those changes. I just thought I'd add that little bit. I also thought intervening may save a little bloodshed. Maybe everyone needs to take a couple deep breaths? Blessed Be Thee, - Stephanie Every heart has hidden treasures...a secret wish, a silent dream, and a cherished love. [Unknown] |
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Miah Senior Member
since 2002-08-26
Posts 1062Pennsylvania |
heheh. Have you ever noticed that when someone is complaing about posts or things of the like, the subject always turns into grammer. I would actually like to hear what loner has to say about all of this. I think everyone scared her.  by the way, i ned spl chk relly bad. |
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Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
I am a country bumpkin who would not know a predicate nominative if it bit my dangling participle. Therefore, I am appreciative of the fact the more literate and erudite members of Passions are able to help educate us intellectually challenged, or in simpler terms, to assist us to be non-bumpkins. (ouch, did something bite me?) Actually, I apologize for the post, but I have been contemplating a poem using the "bite my dangling participle line." I simply have not had the time. Instead, I get to use my line and also engage in some petty sarcasm since that seems to be at least part of the tone of this thread. Isn't life great? In any event, have a great day all and take care. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Jen - check your email - I don't go for public debacles really... K |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Julie Please to swap brains with me. I would love some quickness in reading and writing; not to mention many other things. I have to read things over and over and over again and reconfirm every word's meaning in the dictionary. I edit my replies a hundred times so they don't reflect that "slowness" and insanity. And still dont' succeed  [This message has been edited by Essorant (03-16-2003 07:14 PM).] |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
yep... I now realize something as well.. 1. It is more important to be absolutely correct in spelling and grammer than I thought. 2. Sometimes the delivery of a response or message is easily misunderstood 3. A lack of understanding of individuals and their own particular strengths and weaknesses can lead to bitter words 4. I'm done with this thread... like so many it has now bored me... 5. Now matter how good you are what you do... it doesn't mean you use your heart and your head to solve problems. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Capt. Hair, aren't we in a bit of tiff tonight: 1. It is more important to be absolutely correct in spelling and grammer than I thought. --it is more important to be absolutely correct in spelling and grammar than a thought. That much is clear. 2. Sometimes the delivery of a response or message is easily misunderstood --Uh huh, and how long has it taken you to figure that one out? The only way out is to keep talking. 3. A lack of understanding of individuals and their own particular strengths and weaknesses can lead to bitter words --It's called reading. It's a skill that is woefully lacking in most people. 4. I'm done with this thread... like so many it has now bored me... --Uh huh, the responsibility then is to make it interesting, not to walk away. When it becomes boring, nobody talks, we just move on. 5. Now matter how good you are what you do... it doesn't mean you use your heart and your head to solve problems. --Really? People still believe in certain things. I don't really care if other people worry about my heart, my head, or my mind. I want to change their mind. Do you? |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: And, sometimes, that's the only right answer. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
And sometimes we must make it interesting. |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
Brad... NO tiff bud... no anger...no frustration... boring to me..is that people will instead of focusing on the larger pisture and the larger things to be drawn from a conversation they will resort to the minute details that have vailidity but do not address the over arching issues. I've watched many a dog chase its tale.. and not a one of them ever did anything but run in circles... had anyone I think but you and perhaps one or two others made comment on what I said..I wouldn't have replied.. my answer... my reply...is no.. I am not in a tiff.. I am not angry or emotional about this at all...and that was important to me to say... Later all... |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
i wuz hear |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
mikey..always glad you are around..and glad the hospital stay is over for you... you take care of mike... there are a few of us around here that think highly of him. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I like Mike too~! |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
He's an okay guy, I guess.Thanks, everyone. |
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Martie
Moderator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-09-21
Posts 28049California |
hospital? |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Go ahead Martie..smack him around for not telling us!!  |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Yeah! Scuse me Mikey??? You ok? Hey Ron - just to flag it on a bit more: 'instead of focusing on the larger picture and the larger things to be drawn from a conversation they will resort to the minute details that have validity but do not address the over arching issues' thats the nature of discussion m'friend.. K |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
Severn... "thats the nature of discussion m'friend" thenit is a shame we do not learn to discuss with the intent of finding the bigger picture and wrapping a framework around it so there is common ground before we enter into the nit picking of detail. One can nit pick anything to death... and never reach any agreement or understanding, putting people at opposite ends of a spectrum when it comes to truly understanding... but in my experience if the overarching framework of an issue is agreed upon..then resolving the details of the issue becomes a series of steps and perhaps understandings that can lead to true progress in everyone at least further embracing the need to make change... to each there own... and from what I have read from you and seen you discuss.. you are far too intellegent to not see what I am saying... you may want to deny it and kick you feet and protest..or try to argue it with me... but.. you do understand.. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
What I find funny is that no one seems to realize that I corrected her before this actually became an issue. Check if you want. I added one sentence and I used the term, gist -- I corrected her in a pedagogically correct way (We all do this by the way). Who actually teaches around here? I used a textbook approach. You guys are worried about this? I'm sorry, but I think if you care about grammar, then it's time to ask exactly the question, it is time to talk, not to walk away. What is better? Example: I happened to believe I happen to believe Ah, geez, not perfect but any means but worth talking about. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: In this case, I don't think it's a matter of what is better so much as it is a matter of what is correct. And to determine that, you need to finish the sentence. At fifteen, I happened to believe I was immortal. If you want to talk about better, then I think you should eliminate the do-nothing words entirely. At fifteen, I believed I was immortal. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Hey Ron Hm. It seems to me that you're involved in moving the discussion in a direction that veers away from the original topic at hand - why fast readers are picked on; with such a move, we have progressed (loaded word) from the detail of grammar to the details of 'the bigger picture.' Now, I wouldn't wish to call you guilty of aiding and abetting the very same process you are protesting against... That aside, and following my own penchant to 'nit-pick', the main thrust of your paragraph suggests to me that you believe the result of all discussions must involve a resolution. Therefore, I have questions for you. quote: Who may I ask is the 'we' you speak of? Myself? Yourself? The poets at passions? The world's intellectuals? Every human being? Have you any right to speak for an unspecified we? Also, I am curious as to how you can claim that the said 'we' fails to find the bigger picture? I am curious as to how your bias against detail has arisen - as if detail and the bigger picture are mutually exclusive entities. Does every discussion need a concrete resolution for it to be a success? (One would then have to define success). Tricky. There are many different ways to look at the so-called central issue of a discussion. For myself - 'we' excluded - I see the central issue as a form of nucleus...with other issues/points of interest revolving around it. quote: More questions - questions, that may or may not lead to more discussion. (Assuming, of course, that one does not view tangents as the means of a discussion's death). Should the objective of a discussion - no matter how banal a discussion might be - always be for true understanding? Given that the nature of discussion, (by default, according to my own, separate opinion of course) relies upon different points of view, would all participants wish for 'true understanding' - or is that a fruitless, almost Utopian-like outcome? Ultimately, Ron, who would you suggest defines the nature of true understanding? (Ever read anything by Michel Foucault? Perhaps unfortunately, I have never been able to construct notions of truth in quite the same way after reading him...) quote: Ah, more words that read straight from a propogandist's day-dream: 'steps', 'true progress', 'embracing', 'need to make change'. (I also note the 'everyone' - linking to the unspecified 'we'). How very neat and tidy. For me, this results in yet more questions, the main one being: what is true progress? Who decides the nature of a discussion's successful progress? Now, let's apply this part of the discussion back to its original question: why fast readers are picked on. You said: 'understandings that can lead to true progress in everyone at least further embracing the need to make change' I ask: In your opinion, what understandings can come from the central issue at hand that could possibly involve 'everyone', (in this case, those currently involved in this discussion), embracing the need to make change? What change? Telling Julie how she can and can't reply perhaps? Or perhaps the rest of us could learn patience, acceptance, understandings of our own? Or perhaps Julie could slow down, 'we' could be more understanding, and everyone is happy? Do these solutions meet your needs of true progress? quote: Wait a moment. Did I just see 'to each their own'? Does that not contradict your own philosophy Ron? How can you say we must reach 'true understanding' in one breath, and then say 'to each their own' in the next? Perhaps this indicates a subconcious recognition that true understanding is a difficult myth to effect? quote: Hopefully, I have shown I do indeed see what you are saying, and I understand it. I don't, however, agree. I have not tried to argue it with you, though it might seem like it; I have, instead, attempted to draw you into further discussion by asking leading questions. If you reply, remember, you will be drifting into - by your own definition - incidentals: non-central issues that won't resolve the central questions of why fast readers are picked on... K[This message has been edited by Severn (03-18-2003 03:58 PM).] |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Oops...seems I'm such a big mouth I want to say it all twice... heh K[This message has been edited by Severn (03-18-2003 03:43 PM).] |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
LMAO.... Severn... dear wise one... I could not hold a candle to the magnificent and intellectual way you have pointed out the questions and potential flaws in my very general and unprecise statement... attention to detail or dislike for the detail... Hmmmm... lets see... I am in charge of a depatment that builds maintains and troubleshoots web based E commerce solutions driven off of relational databases that contain millions and millions of records. I am the chief interpretor between the technical and the general languages used, meaning, I take geek and translate to human then do the opposite so the two or many sides can work together to meet the needs of the business... I design relational databases to meet application requirements and balance resource demands..then the ongoing responsibility of maintining data integrety in those millions of related records during updates, deletions and addition as well as the security of sensitive financial information So..yeah... I guess detail is a bit foreign to me and I do not have penchant for understanding it or the importance it has in the overall or general discussion or requirements. We... ah the universal we... LOL... we as humans in general... do I have a right to speak for them.. oh heck..no more than anyone does or dreams to try and find resolution to conflict and promote understanding... and I am a pretty poor choice for such a job as I tend to have little patience with people and am so opinionated myself I often forget to listen to others... Now.. contradicitons... I find truly amusing.. yes according to your argument (sorry... your interpretation of what I said) I certainly do contradict myself... something I am sure most of us do when the lnaguage used or the intent does not match the inferences that can be drawn from the language used. ron<---- raises his hand Guilty! Original part of the discussion... now wise one..I assume your being ironic was related to the original subject..pointing out that anothers response ( read as sarcastic) was also flawed in its use of grammer... No..my last post has nothing to do with the original thread....but more to do with the way the participants in the thread choose to discuss and in some case..take less than formal "shots" at the faults or failings of others... which... could be related back to the original topic...or not... You are far too smart for me to debate...which by the way..is a much different process than discussing...or at least in this poor feeble thing I call a brain it is... So I'll bow.... hand you all the floor and keep my obviously irritating and innane thoughts to myself... well... at least until I again start to feel in some way I need to do a little bit to foster understanding and perhaps tolerance.... then I'll probably open my mouth and again make a general fool out of myself... of course I am for the most part quite used to doing that... LOL love your spirit... wise one... you indeed are a scrapper... oh yeah..nearly forgot... You win..I am wrong... we should by all means continue to keep our eyes focused on the details and the rest will be revealed as connected and we can then understand and learn... dang... sure hate to lose a debate... but I know when I am bested... [This message has been edited by Cpat Hair (03-18-2003 05:25 PM).] |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Yeah, I'm all right. Sorry for not telling anyone until it was past -- it happened fast. "It" being a trip to the emergency room in treatment of a urinary tract infection. "Fast" being three days because the doctors were afraid the UTI might be a complication of my heart condition. Etc. etc. |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
you got nothing to apologize to me for bud... just glad you are ok. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Nice touch. Now, don't come back and tell me it was a mistake. |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
Now Brad... it had to be a mistake... I'm not smart enough by any means to plan such out or use it as an example.. I sometimes would like to think I am..but truth is..I'm really just an old farm boy that couldn't make a go on the farm and had to search years ago for some way to make a living. Blundered into the techno world after spending 20 some years in the automotive parts business.. how smart could anyone be and come not only from a farm..but to go into a business where you sold autoparts.. It was a mistake. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ahhh, but do you understand why I pointed that out? Was, what you call a mistake, make sense? Can you see it, my friend. Poetry, it's called poetry. |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
LOL... Brad... I do have to admit to you.. I was for the most part pulling your leg with my reply... I see I understand I play a fool... often |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
And I fell for it. Hmmmm, gonna have to more careful in the future. Someone said somewhere that only the fool can say the truth. Perhaps he/she was right! |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
Brad... my grandpa was a wise old man with a 4th grade eductaion... he ended up sitting as a Director on the board of two regional farm co-ops... and left my grandmother pretty secure for money. A smart man...and I watched him play the fool for years with people who just KNEW they were smarter... better eductated.. better spoken... what I never saw... was him be arrogant or rub someone elses face in what they didn't know. I had an ample opportunity to learn from him..I lived with them for a number of years and worked side by side with him on the farm. I'd like to think that some of the things he believed in I still practice. I can be abrasive and abusive impatient and arrogant... but the one thing he tried so hard to instill in me..and in my own way..I try to pass on to others is that a victory at the cost of another's pride is no victory..but a war postponed. My whole involvement in this thread..came about in large part because their seemed to be a lack of tolerance and a tendency to take the personalities involved to a level of criticizing what in most of us are common faults. Things we have all been guilty of in most cases..at some time.. and using them like barbs to just poke. I don't agree with everything I read here..or everyones opinon but attacking the person..or "demeaning" the person saying it by using grammer or spelling and or trying to negate the validity of what is being said byusing such devices seems to me to be postponing a war... not winning a victory.. and certainly not changing people's ideas. How well do you like being force fed an idea? Me... not very well... and for a lot of people if not most..leading them to the conclusions rather than making them choke on them...seems a lot more effective. OK... now.. I truly think I am done here.. Severn may come along and read this and point out again how I contradict myself by adding on to the thread....when above I said I conceded... and she'll be right...and I'll have to live withthe egg on my face and her gloating for a million years or something |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
This my first visit to The Alley, picked up a random thread and saunter-read down through it, mainly mumbling "Good grief!" every thirty seconds or so. Need some street lights in this alley. Think I'll go somewhere else. ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
I don't gloat sir! Humph... I just like proving points, petty little points for the hell of it...(sad little individual that I am heh) take care Mr Ardent K |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
LOL.... Severn.. come here girl! ((HUG)) [This message has been edited by Cpat Hair (03-20-2003 07:49 PM).] |
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WhiteRose Member Elite
since 2002-07-23
Posts 3208somebody's dungeon |
Well I read through this incredibly long thread and have learned some things. 1. I too have been guilty of the not so elaborate response. (I am also a speed reader, but I assure you I'm not speed reading any poetry, cause, really, what's the sense?) 2. Which brings me to number two which is, I don't think you can really "speed" read poetry. 3. I think the reason I post short responses some of the time is because I did not glean a good understanding of the poem upon reading it, and therefore did not have an indepth comment to make. (some of ya'll are a bit cryptic) And, because, my social skills suck.  4. We have way too much time on our hands if we can have a discussion about this that goes on as long as this one has. So in conclusion, I can only say, I will attempt to make my responses a bit more personal, because, in reality, I don't really like it when someone posts a one word response to my poems either. (especially since mine are as easy to understand as the Dick and Jane books)  But this was entertaining reading, to say the least, and I love you all, even with all your quirks and faults, because I know I fit right in. (I have so many I had to make room for the blasted things in my living space) [This message has been edited by WhiteRose (03-22-2003 11:02 AM).] |
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ESP Member Elite
since 2000-01-25
Posts 2556Floating gently on a cloud.... |
What WhiteRose said.....couldnt have put it better myself so will be content to say I echo... Liz xxxxx "Gorge the honey from life, and live through the stomach aches knowing they will pass..." ~Liz Pinard 2003~ |
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morefiah Member
since 2003-03-26
Posts 150Spanish Town, Jamaica |
Confessions: 1. I write loads of poetry. 2. I have not posted one here in weeks 3. I also am a natural speed reader/typer 4. I sometimes (maybe most times) post very short replies to others' poetry. I have read poetry here that leaves me literally speechless in terms of trying to express what the work did for me. At times like that I instinctively know that what I post as a reply does not do proper justice to how beautiful the poem is or how it makes me feel. But I just cannot resist commenting nonetheless. I guess someone reading my very short comment could take it to mean that I am being insincere. However this would be most unfortunate. As for posting a reply very soon after the author has posted the poem, I don't have much of an opinion on that. I suppose if someone reads as fast as I do, and appreciate poetry as much as I do, it is quite possible that this could happen without insincerity. I think we should just always give the benefit of the doubt. If someone is being less that genuine, then that is on thier conscience. I could not care less. Incidentally, there is another confession I need to make... I think I have become hooked on the Discussion forums. Because of this, I do not go into the open forums as much as I should. This is in no way an indicator that I do not appreciate the poets here. |
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morefiah Member
since 2003-03-26
Posts 150Spanish Town, Jamaica |
Oh, and Julie.... you can speed read and speed post on my poems any time ok.... If I can drag myself out of the Alley long enough to post another one. LOL |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Morefiah! Get thee into Open!!!! LOL... and I have to agree...sometimes the poem says it all, and anything I can say in ways of appreciation for the poet's talent seem to just "hang out there", as limp as a wet dishrag. They can't see the emotion welling up inside me for the weaving of their words... but it is nice to see some of talented READERS respond so well to poems. Sometimes we gain even more insight into the way a poem was interpreted, or what it meant to a reader, or what memories a poem recalls, or how a poem may change a person's outlook... all of that is valuable to the poet for several reasons. Especially if the way it is being interpreted is NOT how the poet meant it to come across at all... which can become a Very Valuable Lesson! Now, Morefiah...to Open! Post your poems! Spoil us!  |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
jus-bean-heer |
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