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Gripes about music?
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Gripes about music? |
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Hypnosis Member
since 2001-12-02
Posts 325CO |
Now, I am in all into music, I love all the heavy rock like Godsmack and System of a Down. I think these bands have a lot of talent playing instruments and stuff. However, I can't stand boy bands such as Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. These guys have no talent. Their voices just blend together to make them sound good. And their dancing, man I could do stuff like that if I had choreographers like they do. They don't have much talent at all, yet they are still more popular than skilled musicians such as Static-X and Staind. *sigh* i feel a lil better now! Randy Meador a life lived unexplored is a life not worth living. |
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Allan Riverwood
since 2001-01-04
Posts 3502Winnipeg |
I know how you feel, although I don't consider "system of a down" or "godsmack" to be "heavy" music. You should listen to some of the really good stuff, like Rammstein, In Flames, My Dying Bride, Front Line Assembly, :wumpscut:... the list goes on. In any case, YES, I feel your pain! Mainstream music has turned into the most sickly garbage on the face of the planet. All of the very best music has submerged into an underground sub-culture of people (probably 10% of the youth population, but higher in adults) who listen to their music NOT because they find the artists attractive, or simply because they want to be seen listening to the music or say that they listen to the music to seem "cool" (EMINEM)... but rather because they appreciate the lyrical and musical value! There's some magnificent musical groups and artists, who just do not get as much credit as they deserve because they aren't media objects like Limp Bizkit (UGH!) or The Backstreet Boys. Even rap music... so redundant, so terrible... and why is this music mainstream? It says a lot about the state of society. But man, I hear you. ~Allan "I know it's nice to be known - It caresses your ego - but the society cost is terrible." ~Vangelis [This message has been edited by Allan Riverwood (edited 12-08-2001).] |
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Siofra
since 2000-09-28
Posts 551State of Suspended Passion |
ugh..I've listened to Godsmack, and I don't like it. I'm not saying they don't have talent, but I do not enjoy them. As for Backstreet Boys or NSYNC, I suppose I'm a little blocked by my attitude about music that is manufactured. Grab a group of young people, throw them in front of someone in a suit sitting behind a desk, and wham..there they are on the music scene based on statistics and not on their own personal talent. Ick...A lot of the music these days are manufactured if you ask me, but it doesn't mean that they don't have personal talent. Its just that the stuffy image building people like to squash individual talent by creating a hype with sensational outward appearance instead of getting to the heart of the artist. Am I making sense? LOL! I don't know. I'm certainly rambling As for judgement on talent..I'm sure that is a matter of opinion. I am many. |
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Dusk Treader
Moderator
Senior Member
since 1999-06-18
Posts 1187St. Paul, MN |
I love my music, and I love my musicians to have talent. From the beautiful and melodic soundscapes of Pink Floyd and Dream Theater to the heart wrought tunes of Michael Hedges, I love artists who can assemble beautiful music. I used to love the whole heavy metal scene, Godsmack and other bands along that line, but I'm just not into it any more. The only band from that genre I like is Alice in Chains, and their angst and pain was certainly found the hard way.. Other than AiC, Iron Maiden, Queensryche and Dream Theater are as heavy as I usually go. It makes me sick to see these so called 'artists' singing others peoples musics to synthesized beats with very little instrumental quality.. Sometimes little vocal quality. I don't mind music if it's popular, but I want it to be somewhat original, to say something... The other thing that bothers me is all the covers that the new "bands" are doing. Limp Bizkit et al covered "Wish You Were Here" argh.. that ticked me off... And my brother, a person who loves "rap music" is still convinced Puffy Daddy-P. Diddy the insecure wrote "Every Breath I Take." *Sigh* Won't original, meaningful music that isn't synthesized make a comeback? "A hard, cold wisom is required for goodness to accomplish good. Goodness without wisdom always accomplishes evil" - Robert Heinlein |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Actually, it was Incubus who did a song "Wish you were here" and it's not a cover of Pink Floyd. LOL, I wouldn't call Godsmack or Systm of a Down talented music. There is very little on the radio lately that is any good. I have come to depend on word of mouth for my music... "we are all citizens of the womb before we subdivide |
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icequeen Senior Member
since 2001-12-09
Posts 633FL USA |
I seldom listen to heavy metal music, mainly because I can't understand the lyrics, which seem to be overpowered by the guitars and stuff. On the other hand, I often listen to opera, particularly Italian singers, and I don't understand those lyrics either. But that is overcome by the sound of the voice. The human voice is the most beautiful instrument of all(IMHO). While not a huge fan of the Backstreet Boys/NSYNC/Brittney Spears etc., I do like the lyrics to a few of their songs, while totally despising some others. Spears has a vocal talent she is wasting, and Christina Aguillera has one of the best voices around as long as I don't have to look at her. Beautiful girl, no taste. But to each her own. These groups are way out of my age range (I'm 40) but there aren't a lot of groups from my day that I listen to. (Disco sucks!) I listen to country, classical, rock, pop, opera, blues, bluegrass - if I had to pick my all time favorites - Aerosmith, Edwin McCain, Etta James, Andrea Bocelli, Billy Idol, John Berry (a seriously underrated country singer), The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Steppenwolf, Pink Floyd and Elton John's old stuff. And Tchaikovsky. Ok so I'm eclectic. Sue me hehehe  ...and her crown was formed by the ice in her eyes |
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Bec Member
since 2001-02-23
Posts 475Canberra |
While I must plead ignorance to the groups you're talking about (out here in backward Orstraya...  ) I do listen to a huge variety of music. Running down the list of my small CD collection, I have Anastacia, Backstreet Boys, Boyzone, BoyzIIMen, (lots of "boy", I know!) Adam Brand (Aussie country), Brooks and Dunn, The Corrs, "The Crucible" soundtrack, Dido, Gregorian monks' chants, Adam Harvey (more Aussie country) Faith Hill, Ronan Keating, Chris LeDoux, Don McLean, Johnny O'Keefe, Leann Rimes, "Romeo & Juliet" soundtrack, Brittney Spears, Quindon Tarver, "Tarzan" soundtrack and Shania Twain. While I know there's a lot of country, which I quite enjoy, if I were to tell you what I had on Winamp... we'd be here forever!There's a huge array of music, to suit all tastes. Boy bands such as Backstreet Boys do seem to be manufactured, but there's a market for groups like this, and record copanies can't ignore this fact. I guess it's always best to give everything a go. You may be pleasantly surprised, or you may find you can't stand it. My boyfriend laughed when I said I would like the Gregorian monks CD. When I bought it and listened to it, he really likes it! This is coming from someone who listens to Live, The Bloodhound Gang, Nirvana, The Offspring, et cetera. I'm not saying there is something wrong with any of these groups, because I listen to them also. It's just a matter of taste. And that's my five cents! Bec  "Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is to go where they can find you." -Winnie-the-Pooh [This message has been edited by Bec (edited 12-10-2001).] |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
I hear ya Randy! I love all different kinds of music. I love Madonna..you can say many things about her but she is very talented and original. I love linkin park, staind, nickelback and creed. A lot of the songs by these bands are very deep and I can relate to them perfectly as they were my life story. As for miss spears, granted she is beautiful BUT..In my opinion she has a nasal voice and needs voice lessons. She's a great performer though. Personally, I think in five years from now nsync, bsb, britney, and o town are all going to fade out and be just a memory. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
sigh....It's true. I'm old. (grinning like mad now, and it's gonna happen to YOU too, but only if you're lucky!)  (serenity exits, via a "walker"...) |
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Skyfire
since 2000-12-27
Posts 3381Riding |
O Town? Who's O Town? Find me a pidgeon that can solve my problems, and I'll find you a cat that can eat that pidgeon |
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Alexia
since 2001-06-07
Posts 164Sweet And Sassy |
lol like you don't know them sky ... haha but I don't like all tha boy bands and i really dont like brittany spears, its like look at me, look at me! blah blah I like the metal, slipknot,disturbed,godsmack, etc .. all them they are awesome. oh and can't forget linkin park. All tha "popstarz" are just out there to be famous and look good, they don't care about their music that much, there just in it for poblisity*sp?* yeah i can't spell, hopefully you get whut i'm sayin here? but I do like tha rap music, not all of them dance in their video's, some of them ride around in their "bling toys" lol .. and like skinny women, with big boobs. And they try to be "perfect", I hate ta tell them this NO ONE IS PERFECT, even though they try ta be. anyways i know whut i said had no point in it, but i dont care. Lexi ¤1 tequlia, 2 tequlia, 3 tequlia, |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Hey, isn't O-Town the one that sang that song about liking girls who wear Abercrombie and Fitch? Or was that LFO or something? I don't know, they're all the same... heh heh. Actually, since this thread ahs come up, radio quality has improved... at least around here. I like the new Nickelback songs (even if they are overplayed), new 311 has been good, even Sum 41 has grown on me as old-fashioned rebellious punk music. Dashboard Confessional's Best Deceptions is absolutely awesome, actually wow-worthy, and they've (at least the local station i like) been bringing back some good ol' songs, like No Rain by Blind Melon, some older Our Lady Peace stuff, Jane's Addiction, Goo Goo Dolls, and so forth. "Maybe you don't like your job |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
yeah hush that was LFO hehehhee I met them in person, they are nice guys. I like sum41...and p.o.d |
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gracianna Member
since 2002-02-17
Posts 165A 14 year hell |
I'm afraid I can't quite agree. I like classical music, so there you are... I give a whole new meaning to the word 'sad.' |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
as Madonna says...MUSIC..makes the people come together ..(at least for the grammy's) hehehe Don't forget to watch the grammy awards everyone, feb 27th, 8pm I believe |
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Dopey Dope
Moderator
Member Patricius
since 2000-08-30
Posts 11132San Juan, Puerto Rico |
I'd really have to say that based upon everybody's opinions, people can't justify in any concrete fashion as to what kind of music is "good" or "bad". Everything as far as music is concerned is GOOD, and everything is BAD for somebody out there in this world. Fact is, though, and in my opinion, any band or group that is formed by some sort of agency and strictly for little girls to drool over. Any band that bases their music mainly on their fan base composed of girls who will quickly lose interest once they grow up disregard the pedastal they've invented for their ideal teeny-bopper sexy pet...haha once that goes then the group or band will fall into pieces. That day will be wonderful for me. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
I'd say the best music is always that which is graceful and sincere. Really, I think the only time music is bad is either if someone lies and is being bitter and hypocritical or if someone tries to follow the same image as another, like boy bands. It's not that they are bad people or anything, just not taking to heart the creative potential they possess. and that's when music goes sour. Otherwise, music is a true gift, and I encourage all to follow their freedom of voice and sing with optimum soul! Sincerely, Noah Eaton Underneath your clothes, there's an endless story |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Pardon me but y'all didn't list some of the best artists and groups who have ever graced the charts: ABBA Barry Manilow Air Supply Gloria Gaynor The Village People Joan Jett Billy Idol Depeche Mode Yani Cake Crash Test Dummies They Might Be Giants Tear for Fears Eurythmics Just to name a few...  Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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Jason Lyle Senior Member
since 2003-02-07
Posts 1438With my darkling |
lol Jp I agree, but you aged us by years. Jason |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Rap music (Doggy, Ditty, Droopy), pop music (Spears, NSYNC), nu-metal music (Creed, Godsmack) are all the same = commercialized music for the masses. |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
I'm with JP (even if that means I am letting my age show).....lol Marilyn |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
This is actually an interesting discussion. I got into it with a few musicians I was hanging out with the other night on this very topic. They were on the side of *AAAACCCCKKK* on the boy bands. I tend to take a different viewpoint. Although I am not normally a fan of the "boy band" genre, I do feel that there is a great amount of talent involved. Everyone talks trash about them being this or being that, but the fact is that they are up there for you to gripe about. For whatever reason, they have the talent to pull it off. Maybe you can do it better, but they are doing it. Besides... Has anyone ever heard of the Temptations, the Four Tops, Boys II Men, the Coasters, the Drifters, etc??? They sing, they dance, they don't write their own music, they are legends. Where's the difference? As far as not writing their own music, O-Town DOES write their own songs. And they play instruments during their performance as well. Frank Sinatra NEVER wrote a single note of music. Nor did Tony Bennett, or Bing Crosby, or Elvis... yet they are not vilified for "only getting on stage, singing and dancing". There are also HUGE rock bands that sing other peoples music. Kiss, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Elton John, Metallica, and Kid Rock are just among a few of the artists that sing songs that they either did not write at all, or had help from professional song writers. Yet they all sell out the venue EVERY TIME they perform. It's amazing how people's perceptions determine their viewpoints, and not the actual historical facts behind the discussion. Just my thoughts Day after day I'm more confused, |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
To compare the great great Frank Sinatra to today's "Boy bands" is taking a leap across an unleapable canyon. [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-16-2003 10:59 AM).] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Personally, I don't like today's pop music because it is too simple and too easy to understand. I need to be "musically challenged." If one wants to be musically challenged, Tchaikovsky's 1st movement of his 6th symphony is great place to start. [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-16-2003 11:02 AM).] |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
These guys have no talent. Their voices just blend together to make them sound good. ***************************** While these groups you mentioned aren't on my listening list either, re-read what you wrote. Seems to me it takes talent to blend together in harmony. My only musical complaint? Driving or walking down the street and being subjected to someone else's idea of music blasted at 120+ decibel levels. |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Ahhh... a discussion about music. I'm actually a musician/ethnomusicologist by training... and i consider myself both a composer and a poet.... just to give you guys some sense of where i'm coming from. personally, i used to HATE the boy bands, but it's true. it actually does take talent to blend voices like that, those guys normally have a very nice open voice timbre, and the chords they're singing aren't always easy to sing together. as far as the dancing goes, we all know that's ass... but the singing is actually good sometimes. Boys II Men's "End of the Road" and "I'll make love to you" come to mind. as for pop music being drab and mass produced today... it's no different now than it's ever been. there's good stuff and there's bad stuff. unfortunately, the radio tends to play most of the mediocre stuff, but i think there's a lot of good quality pop music being made out there -- across all genres. i don't consider myself a heavy metal fan, but my current boyfriend is BIG into the stuff, and I've actually started to like some of it... the stuff that's *musical* AS WELL AS being hardcore, guitar scratchy, low throat grindy, etc. besides that stuff though, i think that anyone who's given a listen at the Flaming Lips, Sigur Ros, Beck's "Sea Change," Coldplay, Dead Can Dance, Trail of Dead, Stars of the Lid, etc.... knows that there's good stuff out there. I mean, whether you like these types of music or not, there's no denying that they know how to put good music together, even if all you're looking at is craft. It just so happens that I have some of the broadest musical tastes I know... hence the ethnomusicology (world musics) bent. But in any case, I don't think genre matters as much as whether or not there's talent *within* that genre. and there usually is in all cases. you just have to find those artists out. kamala |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Opeth- I am not comparing them as far as talent, or influence. I would listen to 10 hours of the Chairman of the Board before I would willingly listen to even 1 Butt Street Boyz song. The point was that the original argument didn't hold water (not writing their own music, just singing, not playing an instrument, etc). Frank was vilified by the non-teeny boppers in his time as being no talent, he NEVER wrote a note in his entire life, he couldn't play a Mary Had A Little Lamb if his Mafia Membership Card depended on it. Now take out Frank and add 98 Disease, or any of the others who can't write their own tunes, or play an instrument. THAT is the ONLY comparison I would ever make between the two. Talent wise, they don't mix. Day after day I'm more confused, |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Ringo ~ That is what I thought. I just wanted you to verify it. Opeth's Recent Playlist 1. ISIS ~ Oceanic 2. Opeth ~ My Arms, Your Hearse 3. Opeth ~ Damnation 4. Jethro Tull ~ A Passion Play 5. Sibelius ~ Symphony #2 6. Tchaikovsky ~ Symphony #6 7. Agalloch ~ The Mantle 8. Tool ~ Lateralus 9. Pink Floyd ~ Animals (If you play the bass guitar, Pigs: 3 Different Ones, is a great song to learn) 10. Fight ~ Small Deadly Space I don't have time for Boy bands, Brittany & Madonna boppers and simple pop music, but hey, listen to what you like! [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-17-2003 09:19 AM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Pop culture usually gets a bad rap, and not always without justification. After all, to paraphrase Sturgeon's Law, ninety percent of it is crap; but ninety percent of EVERYTHING is crap. What too many seem to forget is that Mozart and Shakespeare were, at one time, considered pop culture. Even the non-elite masses occasionally get it right. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Mozart's music, during his time, was not considered to be any thing really special by the masses. Unlike today's pop music stars whose music is considered to be the best of today by the masses. Not only that, Mozart was a brilliant composer and musician. That can't be said for today's pop musicians. Opeth ~ In search of music that makes me think. [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-17-2003 11:36 AM).] |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
This interesting thing is... pop music, pop culture - it is actually 'popular music' popular culture', it is popular for a reason I think. While looked down on by the fringes of society, society as a whole has made such things 'popular' so it must have some merit. Neitzche would have scoffed that the 'dirty, hairy dwarves' are just being led by their mindlessness... he may be right but honestly... do we trash things 'pop' because they suck, or because they are popular?  Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"... pop music, pop culture - it is actually 'popular music' popular culture', it is popular for a reason I think." ~ The reason is that pop music is simple and easy to understand = non-thinking music. The majority of people (the masses) just want simple music to listen and dance to. Music that is not popular and/or not easily understood is normally met with phrases, such as, "That is just noise" or "You call that music?" [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-17-2003 12:58 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Great art is always simple to understand, too, at least until it is removed sufficiently from its cultural roots (say, by time or language). But, like chess, what can be understood in an hour might still take a lifetime to master. Shakespeare was popular because he told good stories. He was great because those stories, 500 years later, can still surprise us with their depth and relevance. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Dr. Seuss was a great story teller too, but I outgrew his stories a long time back. There is a major difference between the complexity of Brittany Spear/NSYNC type pop music and Dream Theater's Metropolis PT II. [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-18-2003 07:50 AM).] |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Opeth you do have a point, but sometimes a person just wants to enjoy themselves, listen to a catchy tune or a soothing melody without having to work and understanding or appreciating the intracasies (sp?) of the peice. There is reason why things like the movie "Dumb & Dumber" make so much at the box office - stupidy incarnate to be sure, but sometimes a thinking person wants to just laugh at the easy things to laugh at. BTW, for the record... Sinatra was NOT that great of a singer. In his early days for the "pop" music he was singing he was pretty good, but no where as good as Elvis, or some of the other singers out there. His main popularity came from the indescribably 'something', certainly not the quality of his droning voice. Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"Opeth you do have a point, but sometimes a person just wants to enjoy themselves, listen to a catchy tune or a soothing melody without having to work and understanding or appreciating the intracasies (sp?) of the peice." ~ For sure. I have no qualms with that ascertation. I am just making the point that pop music is popular because of its simplicity, that is all. "There is reason why things like the movie "Dumb & Dumber" make so much at the box office - stupidy incarnate to be sure, but sometimes a thinking person wants to just laugh at the easy things to laugh at." ~ Although I believe there are better choices in "simple" comedy movies to laugh at, I understand your point. "BTW, for the record... Sinatra was NOT that great of a singer. In his early days for the "pop" music he was singing he was pretty good, but no where as good as Elvis, or some of the other singers out there." ~ That is, of course, a matter of opinion. My mom would totally disagree with you. |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Man, Opeth and JP... you guys have been going to town! I have to say, I'm with Ron on the fact that great art is always simple to understand. The greatest things are those things that are so simple that someone *should* have thought of it before but no one did. I mean... Cage, 4:33. How much simpler can you get? But HE was the one who thought of putting it on stage that way, and that's the genius of it. People rag on Philips Glass and his minimalism, saying it's simple, mindless, pop-influenced repetition. And that's true to a certain extent... but "Opening" is one of the most amazing pieces of music ever written and sticks like glue to most people who hear it. Being musically challenged does *not* mean complexity. In fact, even in the case of Mozart, his music is not exceptionally complex. What Mozart had was an impeccable melodic sense and a strong hold over the masterful use of dissonance. But, in all, his music *is* fairly simple and *was* kind of fluff, garden party popular music at the time. Another guy who's genius everyone goes nuts for, Bach, completely dropped off the planet for a while until Mendelssohn rediscovered him and said, "this guy rules," and now no one can get through music school without pouring over his voice-leading, etc. But Bach, also, was a patronized composer of essentially "popular" music performed in oratorios, etc. So, I think there is some truth to the argument that when the masses make something popular, it's for a reason. Not always just because it's "easy." Furthermore, "easy" does not mean bad or less good than "complicated." I mean, Schoenberg may be all nice and challenging, and the puzzle of twelve-tone (the craft) might be interesting, but few people actually *want* to listen to that stuff and few people derive an emotional satisfaction from it. In my opinion, the whole new complexity 20th century THING is just alienating and arrogant... as is saying that most people are just mindless drones that dig on super easy schlock instead of recognizing good music. I think, to be fair, we should also consider -- in this discussion -- what is *made* popular by record companies, film execs, and so forth. There's a lot of amazing independent music out there that is essentially pop-ish but no one knows about it because it's not on the airwaves. In any discussion of popular music, I think we have to acknowledge that sometimes, it's the *media* and not the masses that makes something popular. Otherwise, there's just no explanation for things like Britney Spears. In her case, I think her real talent is dancing, for instance. And her whole "i'm a sexy 18-yr. old who kicks ass dancing" is probably what has made her popular more than the music. And it's an image that has been propagated by the media. Whereas, the Flaming Lips, who are great in their little cooky way have been doing their thing for almost 20 years and have finally started to catch an audience because they're on an alternative circuit. Okay... I'll stop there. kamala |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Interesting discussion - Kamala, a question for you: you're obviously familiar with Lisa Gerrard which brings me to my question - what are your thoughts on Delerium and the direction it's heading in? For example, have you heard much of Rhys Fulber's outfit Conjure One? I have to confess to being something of an Electronica fan, which many dispute as being music at all (sin sin I tell you!)...but I find I'm stuck in the mid-90's...(thinking Autechre, Biosphere)...as far as quality goes. It's losing it's edge. Crisis! Yeah, so anyway - back to my question before the rant kicked in..???  K |
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wings of the moon Member
since 2003-03-27
Posts 323Pink bubblegum land |
guess its true...my friend who's into foo fighters, ash etc complains about the lack of inovation or true musical ability today. As a dancer I need the cheesy music, for the simple reason that its easy and fun to dance too. As for personal enjoyement however, I'll confess to loving jazzy blues type music, such as fitzgerald, nina simone, james brown (if he fits in that category) as well as jungle type music like shyfx "shake your body" lol. And of course any french sung ballad, type "autumn leaves" sigh... The only types of music I cannot stand are techno. How is that music? Rap doesn't always do it for me either but generally I think i'm pretty open minded to all sorts of music just as long as I can dance, dream or laugh with it (the most recent one i listened to that made me smile all day was "always look on the bright side of life!" with the whistles after, anyone know who its by?) "more than yesterday, less than tomorrow, i love you" |
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wings of the moon Member
since 2003-03-27
Posts 323Pink bubblegum land |
actually : one other thing : its BRITNEY not brittany... the latter is a beautiful country from which i origniate and i take offense that its compared to the toothpaste grinning hamster voiced girl... grrrr... will now calm down (sorry for the outburst, but its the right board, no?) "more than yesterday, less than tomorrow, i love you" |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
quote: Wasn't that by Mel Brooks and crew in History of the World Part I? The Spanish Inquisition scenario I think... Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Man, I LOVE this topic!!! It's so great to be talking to fellow poets about music... my other love. Now, re: "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life." It was Monty Python and crew at the end of the film The Life of Brian. Fantasmic movie for anyone who hasn't seen it! Severn -- in response to your question. Unfortunately, I don't know Delirium very well at all. I've heard the Sarah MacLaughlin track from Brokedown Palace, and I've heard a few odd tracks every now and again by them... but I honestly don't know enough to say. What I *can* say is that I like what I've heard, but I wouldn't be able to comment on their direction. As for Conjure One, I've got to claim ignorance on that front as well. I just want to say... I *totally* consider myself a fan of electronica and electronic musics, but it's such a huge world that I haven't even begun to tap into it really. I only know a few artists and own a few tracks. As for whether or not it's music, it most certainly IS!!! And anyone who doesn't think so is... well... just plumb *wrong*. As for contemporary electronic... I'm trying to think of where I might point you... Amon Tobin is a big one, Mouse On Mars is another group, Boards of Canada (who've been around for a while but are doing nice stuff).... um... 7% Solution (if you can find them)... *I* happen to absolutely LOVE Stars of the Lid, but that is DEFINITELY an acquired taste. Most people just find it dreadfully boring and completely uncreative. It's kind of ambient, gauzy, fall-asleep-to music. There's Aphex Twin, of course. Who else? I can't think of anymore right now.... oh yeah -- Photek, Orbital, Underworld, and Coldcut? there are few more... and now I *really* can't think of anymore. Hope that helps and that you don't already know and hate all of those!!! Okay -- I'll go... but let's definitely keep this discussion up... it's not everywhere that you can go and find such an active dialogue about contemporary music. I'm all for this thread! Kamala |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Kamala - love Aphex, hohum on Boards of Canada, familiar with Underworld, Orbital is already on my must get list....I REALLY recommend you get early to mid-90's Autechre. I think their debut album 'Incunabula' is their best - and their third album 'Tri Repetae' is excellent also. I'd have to say Incunabula's become my favourite album - dark, melodic, hypnotic and utterly beautiful...something I become lost in. Particularly while listening with headphones - what a way to shut out the world. ~sigh~ (I think now I'm going to have to put it on).. ~One hour later~ And into the last track - and my favourite (if nothing else, find that song '444') - of Incunabula I decided, in my obsession, to dig out a review for you to read should you so wish...this review I feel explains Incunabula as well as it's possible without having actually heard it. http://www.autechre.nu/cgi-bin/newspro/reviews.cgi?newsid971872260,59738, I can honestly say this album changed my musical life heh. ~back to my former ramble~ If you can find them around there's actually a NZ group called Pitch Black who are of an international class - just very very hard to find overseas. If you ever d/l music you might have luck there. As to Delerium - well...I can tell you right off that Silence is not particularly representative of their music as a whole. They started off as pure Electronica in the early 1990's and have moved into an ambient-electronic-dance mesh. (Silence for example). Hell, at least someone else has heard of them....I must say I was very impressed to see you mention Dead Can Dance. The key members of DCD established Delerium, which has also been closely affiliated with Enigma and Deep Forest...(and other, more minor outfits - including the aforementioned Conjure One...) More ambient/dance/house bands I love - Future Sound Of London, Tosca, Thievery Corporation, Plaid... I'll add some of the other ones you mentioned to my 'must look into' list... Kps - I forgot to mention the better known Groove Armada, Sven Vath and Massive Attack... [This message has been edited by Severn (05-20-2003 04:55 AM).] |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Severn, Okay -- so I've decided I pretty much always love reading your replies! Thanks for the Autechre suggestion. I must admit, my current precarious financial situation is going to prevent me from actually procuring said album any time soon... but it's definitely been duly noted for future reference! Re: Delerium... interesting. i didn't know that Deep Forest, Enigma, D-um, and DCD had all this cross over going on. I must say, though... I've got some bones to pick with them vis a vis Enigma and Deep Forest -- both of which blatantly milked prominent world musicians for samples without any kind of remuneration. And Deep Forest is one of the silliest, most laughable things EVER... I could not believe the blatantly exoticist, primitivist, ethnocentric babbling about "little people" at the beginning of that. ARGH!!! But that's just the ethnomusicologist in me talking. Please pardon the rant... it's really not nearly as convicted as it sounds! But as far as electronica and ambient go... I've tended to lump the two together -- along with the so-called "electronic music" of the 20th century academic composers. My basic feeling is that if it's created using electronic means, then it's "electronic music"/electronica. So, by that rationale, ambient is a subset in there... and I would definitely say that it's the subset I'm most fond of. Slowdive, Hum, Mogwai, Godspeed, Sigur Ros, Stars of the Lid (which I mentioned before)... they're all more in the ambient category, I think. But, I mean, Sigur Ros's ( ) is probably the tightest, most incredibly through-composed "popular" album I've heard in years... easily. And they do an incredible job of blending the pop ensemble with the classic string quartet with electronic components. (Needless to say, I love that band.) But then there are others that are just completely unknown and impossible to find... like Auburn Lull. I swear, you are now one of 5 people who knows that band exists.... but Auburn Lull absolutely sends me. I fell asleep to it for months; it's amazing. Incidentally, do you like the minimalists? Nyman, Glass? I'm curious because there are definitely parallels between their craft and that of the electronica artists. And how about gamelan music? -- are you familiar with it? Sorry if too many questions... it's just a very interesting discussion. Yours Warmly, Kamala "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
... and ps: Massive Attack's Mezzanine is the definitive Dark Erotica album. I LOVE that album. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"I'm with Ron on the fact that great art is always simple to understand." ~ Always? I completely disagree with your usage of an absolute. In fact, great musical art, is more than not, imo and many others, more difficult to understand, otherwise all of those kiddie songs I sung in Kintergarden are the "Piccassos" of music. "The greatest things are those things that are so simple that someone *should* have thought of it before but no one did. I mean... Cage, 4:33." ~ Not necessarily simpler, but an idea that after expressed, seemed so easy that it was right there in front of all of us, which is not the same meaning as merely "simple music." "People rag on Philips Glass and his minimalism, saying it's simple, mindless, pop-influenced repetition. And that's true to a certain extent..." ~ I have not yet heard of any one person "rag" on Mr. Glass. I don't know any person who has ragged on Mr. Glass. "Being musically challenged does *not* mean complexity." ~ Not always, but speak for yourself. Let's "keep it simple" shall we? I hear Ms. Spears or any rap song, and other forms of popular music...I don't know about you, but me, I understand it right away. I could hum the song mostly after one listen or two...simple melody, simple beat - this does not challenge me and it is, imo, lousy music written for the masses who want instant gratification. As I said before, so be it, enjoy what you want to, I have no qualms. But when listening to, oh, say a song by Liquid Tension Experiment or the 1st movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th...after listening, I don't get it...right away, but I know that there is something about the music that makes me want to go back and listen to it again, and again...and when it finally HITS...and I understand what the artists were intending, I feel good and I also know it is great music. If I played April Ethereal by Opeth for people, I am almost certain to get from the overwhelming majority of these people, replies such as this.... 1. Noise. 2. Devil music. 3. How can you listen to that crap? etc, etc.... It took me quite some time to be able to understand that entire cd (My Arms, Your Hearse), but now that I do - I know in my mind just about every note and can hear every melody. Great music isn't always complex, in fact, like you said, it can be so simple in its complexity or vice-versa, that I one could say "It is so easy, How come no one else thought of that?" "In fact, even in the case of Mozart, his music is not exceptionally complex. What Mozart had was an impeccable melodic sense and a strong hold over the masterful use of dissonance." ~ To me, you are equating Mozart to pop music stars of our time. There is no comparison. Mozart is calculus compared to our today's pop star's addition & subtraction. "So, I think there is some truth to the argument that when the masses make something popular, it's for a reason." ~ Yes. Mostly, dumb-downed simple dance or toe-tapping music created by the media and record company execs to make heaps of money. [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-21-2003 07:58 AM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Art, of any kind, is communication. As such, there are always two sides to be considered. When I find myself tempted to represent an artist as merely simple or unimportant, the image of a soup can always springs to mind and helps me suppress the urge. Maybe the art really is simple and unimportant. Or maybe, just maybe, the deeper message is so far over my head all I can see is the simplicity in which it was wrapped? Two sides to consider. And it's not always easy to know which is guilty of being simple. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
I see your point, but... 3 to 4 minute song consisting of a simple repetitive beat and melody certainly is not over my head. Again, that is why those types of songs are popular - they are easy to "get" right away. Those on the receiving end must have the ability to understand what the messenger is sending, if they don't, they don't "get" it....and call it something like, "Noise." |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
I do think art can be taken two ways also. For instance, it depends on how you choose to define art, for there are multiple definitions of art, three of which deeply stand out: 1: "Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature." 2: "The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty." 3: "High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value." Yes, there truly is a lot of music out there that lazily and effortlessly fails to "imitate or alter the work of nature." But I do believe there exists such a thing as "good pop music", for to many there is that sense of beauty in what we listen that happens to make it hugely in the media and even when many don't even think in a philosophical sense why they love that music, there is that inexplicable satisfaction found deep within it all. I do listen to some popular music indeed, and I am not ashamed. By reading my signature, you can tell I am a huge Shakira fan, and she has a pop platform, but she has a very poetic soul that many American and European audiences have failed to recognize that is especially present in her Spanish songs. You would truly be impressed if you saw her Spanish lyrics! I also love to listen to college stations and try to listen to many local acts that don't make it mainstream to discover obscure artists! And I listen to Top 40 every now and then, and we get many occasional bland hits, but the beauty still makes a visit every now and then, and what may seem ugly to one is beauty to another! I am not big on rap at all, but I do admire how they speak freely and love them or hate them, as lazy as their rhyming may sound at times, there is that occasional masterpiece. I really don't care for Eminem personally, but he truly is a lyrical prodigy, and sadly I think many rather look on Eminem's demeanor rather than his songwriting talent in the most part. By the way, I love Delirium, their music always has me daydreaming! Sincerely, Noah Eaton Underneath your clothes, there's an endless story |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
In the days of instant gratification: Fast food restaraunts, drive-thru every-businesses, Luncheables (sp?) brand lunches for our children (show how much you love your child by giving them junk food like that), instant every-food, ATMs, etc, etc, etc.... The same with music for the masses, something simple to grasp and understand, makes for much money in the so-called "artist's" pocket. How many people actually take the time to listen to a complete symphony, to learn it, to understand how each movement is connected? Answer... Definitely not the masses. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
 Very true, and the same goes for jazz music. So many fail to recognize exactly how the sounds are parallel to the running and reeling of emotions or intuition of each individual! Hyde, Mozart, Vivaldi...they were all excellent at that, and I think jazz music is the kind of music that comes closest to defining expression, even when I haven't found nothing that rivals the classics, at least in orchestration. Sincerely, Noah Eaton Underneath your clothes, there's an endless story |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Absolutely. There is much artistic value in jazz music. Example: Victor Wooten is one of the most amazing bass players that I have ever heard. |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Opeth -- It's taken me a while, but I'm finally getting back to you... my apologies for the delay; I hope you read this. ~ Not necessarily simpler, but an idea that after expressed, seemed so easy that it was right there in front of all of us, which is not the same meaning as merely "simple music." Yeah... you did a better job of saying it, but the above is what I was getting at. Ideas that are so simple that someone should have thought of them before, but it took some kind of genius to make it apparent. As far as your understanding Spears tracks and such right away... I doubt it. Just like you said... it sounds easy, but pop music -- even hers -- often has intricate stuff going on. Now, I just want to say -- I *hate* Britney Spears. And while I've watched her vids for amusement, I do not consider myself a fan, nor would I choose to listen to her. But, I can see why other people do, and I don't think (as you seem to) that that makes them mindless dumb matrix-bound drones. Having said that, let me also say... I've had "My Arms, Your Hearse" for a while now. And I would certainly not choc it up to noise, devil music, or whatever. And I think that people who do are pretty much doing the same thing to Opeth that you appear to be doing to Spears. Granted... you would never equate the two... but, much as you may hate this, they're more similar than they seem. Yes, Opeth has a melodism above the norm for black metal, I would say. And there's no denying their craftsmanship and sense of musicality. However, what they are doing is really not that much more complex than most other forms of pop music. Their songs differ in formal structure, but that is the nature of black metal, in general. There's also a greater emphasis on drums and fills and such, which makes their rhythm section *sound* more complex, but it's really not. (Though I admire the virtuosity and sheer endurance of most black metal drummers.) Also, their sense of chordal progression, harmonic rhythm, dissonance... these are all the same as in Spears, sorry to say. And as for Opeth's timbral universe, it's limited by the genre, I think, to a few stock sounds. Now, I don't say that because it's a bad thing; I say it because it's true. Compare Opeth's sonic universe to a Stereolab or even a Beck and you'll find that their sonic palette is just much smaller. But -- I follow all of that critical review with the statement that, I happen to think Opeth is pretty cool. I just also happen to think that they're more on par with the popular musics you seem very eager to distinguish them from. As for the Mozart point -- comparing him to popular musicians of today... you might want to check out an article by Rene Lysloff entitled "Mozart in Mirrorshades" in the journal Ethnomusicology (Spring-Summer 1997) Vol.41, No. 2... pages 206-214. Jesus -- you know I'm getting into this when I start citing stuff. But anyway -- it's worth a look. Lysloff's argument was that if Mozart was around right now, and had access to current technologies, he might very well be Beck or Aphex Twin or Ricky Martin. And as for this: ~ Yes. Mostly, dumb-downed simple dance or toe-tapping music created by the media and record company execs to make heaps of money. I need to point out here again... take an event like the Blackest of the Black that just happened at the Universal Ampitheatre here in LA a few weekends ago... if you were to go there, you'd find a mass of people, probably wearing all black, probably with shirts of indecipherable calligraphy on them, jumping around... screaming... moshing... yelling... rebelling against "the norm"... rebelling against christianity, in all likelihood, etc. and I fail to see how that's any different than a bunch of people toe-tapping. I'm such the ultra relativist that I see equal merit and respectability in both. Hope I haven't irrevocably pissed you off. And if I have, it was my last intention. I've actually really enjoyed engaging with you on this topic. Kamala |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Kamala, First, let me say that you have not pissed me off at all. I don't get pissed during debates or discussions. When one gets pissed during debates or discussions, one loses their ability to think clearly and without bias as emotions then dictate thoughts or actions. You make interesting points, indeed. However, I disagree with you on some of what you have written. 1. Opeth is not Black Metal. Opeth is progressive metal with elements of Black Metal among many others. Mikey said so himself and he should know. 2. Although there are similiar elements between music such as Opeth and massed produced pop music, to claim that they are basically the same is in error. The masses listen to pop music and "get" it right away, therefore the music becomes popular and sells. The melodies are easy to "get." It is that simple. These same people would listen to Opeth or Dream Theater and other prog bands and not "get" it right away. How would you explain that difference? Why don't the "masses" get that type of music right away? 3. Those moshers, the "masses" you called them, are actually a minority when viewed by the popular and society "accepted" music of today. You were looking in a microcosm of small select group of people and not at the "full picture." 4. I beg to differ, I "get" the popular music right away. I understand it. It is not complicated at all. That is why it bores the hell out of me. I probably have more, but I am running short of time. Btw...You own My Arms, eh? Interesting. Not too many people on this site know of or own Opeth music. What is your favorite track on that cd and why? Do you understand the entire concept of that particular cd? What do you think of the mixing of "black metal" with acoustical progressive riffs and melodies coupled with the mixing of "death growls" and clean vox? I am interested in hearing your opinion of one of my all-time, still listening and learning new things after hundreds of hearings, cd. [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-23-2003 07:25 AM).] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Kamala, You never replied back. Have you actually thoroughly listened to My Arms, Your Hearse? Hmmmm. |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Opeth, going through some stuff... still ruminating. i haven't forgotten about you. i will reply back... just give me some time. sorry to be so short at the moment... i just didn't want you to feel neglected. kamala |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Kamala, You gave me a good chuckle this morning. I don't feel neglected. With all due honesty, I really don't believe you have thoroughly listened to that particular cd and I could be wrong, but I think you are confusing a band called Otep, with Opeth. As I know all of Opeth's work and am scratching my head at some of your specific comments about their music. [This message has been edited by Opeth (05-28-2003 07:03 AM).] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"Lysloff's argument was that if Mozart was around right now, and had access to current technologies, he might very well be Beck or Aphex Twin or Ricky Martin." ~ Mr. Lysloff needs some shock treatment. If there is one particular genre of music that Mozart would be similiar to if he were alive today, it would most likely be progressive rock/metal - certainly not Ricky Martin or Beck. |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Opeth, opeth, opeth... oh ye of little faith... and quite literally, that! I am indeed talking about Opeth. And I've actually spent the past four or so days re-communing with the album to see if I can follow what you see in it. I'm head-scratching, myself. I mean, firstly, it is undeniably Black Metal. And mikey saying it isn't is a lot like Debussy hating the word "Impressionist." Doesn't make it any less true. That being said... I find that the album has interesting moments, but as a whole it's not very organic at all. Rather more episodic. It's almost entirely riff-based -- whether acoustic or no -- and those riffs exist in musical periods that transition one to the next with very little over-arching connection. Not to mention that by the latter half of the album, they start to sound ho hum and repetitive. Now, this is not to say that I blanketly don't like it... it's just simply what is going on in the music. And there are no doubt some brilliant moments: prologue into April Etheral, for instance, is a fantastic way to open an album. Segments in the latter portions of tracks 3 and 6. And, in my opinion, the high point (musically) of the album is track 6 into 7 and the duration of track seven. It's just delovely. But, taken as a whole, I don't find it to be earth-shatteringly original or compelling... at least not any moreso than other pop albums. However, that doesn't keep me from enjoying the experience of listening to it. And now, since you've been kind enough to let me expound on one of your favorite albums... I shall return in kind. In my opinion, one of the most stand out albums in several years is Sigur Ros's ( ). And I'm curious to know what you'd think of it. I'm wondering if your aesthetics are broad enough to include musics beyond the progressive/metal genre you seem to clearly favor. And let me add in closing that I see nothing wrong with favoring that genre. My current boyfriend is a complete black/death/progressive/metal freak. I can totally appreciate it and consider myself pretty open minded about it. But, at the end of the day, it's not what I'll be putting on to relax with at night. Kamala |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
~ Mr. Lysloff needs some shock treatment. If there is one particular genre of music that Mozart would be similiar to if he were alive today, it would most likely be progressive rock/metal - certainly not Ricky Martin or Beck. You're so funny!!! no way in hell. mozart was much to mainstream and conventional for that. if any classical composers were going to be progressive rock/metal people... i would put my votes on Gesualdo, Crumb, possibly Wagner, and some other guys back in there somewhere. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"I mean, firstly, it is undeniably Black Metal. And mikey saying it isn't is a lot like Debussy hating the word "Impressionist." Doesn't make it any less true." ~ You say that as if it is an absolute fact, when in fact it is merely your opinion. I would, and justly so, opine that Opeth is progressive metal with elements of black, death, and even pop-rock. I believe Mike knows more than us "laymen" what genre his own music fits. ~ As for your "review" of MAYH, you gave me not one specific moment(s) of one specific song from that cd. ...which could lead me to believe that if you really care, you need to give it many more spins. Example ~ I purchased Tool's Lateralus when it first came out...spinned it quite a few times, but it did nothing for me and I found it rather bland and boring...but over 1.5 years or so later, I gave it yet another spin and WHAM! I got it! It is now one of my favorite cds. If Opeth and Spears are so similiar, as you say, how come Ms. Spears music, when listened to by the masses, is easily "gotten" yet the majority of those same masses would listen to Opeth and not "get it?" If they are so similiar, would not the same audience get them both equally? |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"I shall return in kind. In my opinion, one of the most stand out albums in several years is Sigur Ros's ( ). And I'm curious to know what you'd think of it. I'm wondering if your aesthetics are broad enough to include musics beyond the progressive/metal genre you seem to clearly favor." ~ I also enjoy Classical, jazz, old Motown, some opera, and 70's rock music. You give me a specific review of Opeth's My Arms, Your Hearse (which should take many spins), and I will see if I can my hands on a copy of your recommended cd and do the same. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Kamala, So far, I got to listen to clips of all 8 tracks of that Sigur Ros cd, I am trying to find a website where I can download at least one or two tracks in order to listen to them in their entirity. I won't purchase a cd unless I think I am going to like it. I did get to download a song titled Syndir Guds (live version) and enjoyed it. So far, and this is a very limited review, (a full review of any worthy group would take numerous listenings), I would have to say this about Sigur Ros. 1. Slow tempo, repetitive and melodic ~ reminds me of Agalloch in that sense. 2. The female singer has a great voice. 3. Nothing great, but I can see how the melodies can become mesmerizing. 4. I find no virtusosity in their musicianship. That is not a bad thing, it is just what I hear. Maybe we should start our own thread |
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Bonfirelight Member
since 2003-06-19
Posts 85London, England |
JP - If no-one has told you already, the song with the whistling is from Monty Pythons 'Life of Brian' and is called 'always look on the bright side of life' As far as the state of music, for what a newbies opinion is worth, all people obviously have different tastes. And we all see different greatness in those things we deem as great. Poetry itself is an example, i'm not a big fan of, say, clever word usage. Why say 'i anticipate the requirement of high velocity' when it can sound so much better. Other will say i'm a philistine. you say tomato. [This message has been edited by Bonfirelight (06-23-2003 06:52 AM).] |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
"So, I think there is some truth to the argument that when the masses make something popular, it's for a reason." At the risk of really getting slammed, I have to contend that "the masses" don't decide what popular music is. They haven't actually done so since the 70's when the bean counters took over the music industry. The American public (as far as "pop culture, and music is concerned) doesn't have the patience or the desire to discover for themselves what it is they want to hear. The recording industry discovers what it is that they feel will make the most money and they forece feed it to the radio stations, and by remote, the masses. Then they spend millions of dollars in advertising to ensure that "the masses" fall into line with their marketing plan. By doing this, they are not allowing truly talented artists such as Dream Theater, Symphony X, Iced Earth, etc. Yes, I am the proud owner of 4 failed recording contracts, however, that has absolutely nothing to do with my premise. I offer as proof the following: Groups like Iron Maiden, Styx, REO, Boston, James Taylor, And many others will sell out arenas everywhere they go, yet ALL of them have released a new album within the last year (Ok, OK... Maiden's last new album was 3 years ago), yet have very minimal airplay. The "powers" have decided that "the masses" do not wish to hear them. Gee.. is that why Iron Maiden is on tour now and selling out 18,000-30,000 seat arenas here in the US?? Is that why Maiden's last album went platinum with very little airplay, and Styx' latest went gold plus with NO airplay? Boston is on tour around PA this week, and their last album got only 1 single released, and no real promotion... yet it went gold plus, and they are selling out the same arenas that The White Stripes, Blink 182, Sum 41, and the other "newest, greatest" CAN'T without being on a festival tour?? The same thing goes for Poison. They continually have the largest selling tour every year, absent Ozzfest, and their last album was not given any real airplay. Obviously, there is something that the recording industry isn't paying attention to, and that is "the masses". They find the "next big thing" give them one album to go platinum, and then drop them if they don't. They don't give the bands a chance to build the following like they used to do when the industry was led by musicians. One last example of the "bean counters" taking over the industry. Hootie and the Blowfish (whom I can actually take or leave) sold 15 million copies of their debut album. Their sophomore effort sold 5 million, and was lableed a failure. Anyways, enough of my rambling. Once in a dream, far beyond these castle walls... |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
I can't believe anyone could discuss Delerium without mentioning the songs Twilight and Wisdom (with Kristy Thirsk )-- fyi-- their new cd "Chimera" is set to be released tomorrow ( june 24th )- it has songs featuring leigh nash (of sixpence), Jakl (of Lunik) a couple more with Kristy Thirsk and quite a few others. Looking forward to getting it. JThere is society where none intrudes, by the deep sea, and music in its roar. byron [This message has been edited by Jamie (06-23-2003 05:07 PM).] |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
My favorite music? Note the signature. I'm insane. I like rock, alternative rock and SOME pop. Songs like "would you be my girlfriend" don't cut it in my world. Didn't you hear? What's popular is what the population likes. So far as I'm concerned, there's still plenty of us who still enjoy good music. Last week, I wen't to the party, and someone asked "who likes the beetles?" everyone raised their hands, and someone shouted "the beetles Rock!" Other people find Pop music equally talented and entertaining, but I disagree. But none of us have the athority to say that one kind of music is any better than another. I said I'm going to buy a gun and start a war, If you can tell me something worth fighting for -coldplay [This message has been edited by Wind (06-25-2003 03:04 PM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I'm late to this one. Is instant gratification such a bad thing? For example, I get instant gratification from such songs as "Jenny from the Block" or Pink's "Just like a Pill" or, to dig back a little further, anything Snoop Dogg or, say, Baby Got Back. Now, I think I get these songs in a way that a lot of people don't get them... but is my beaming reaction of "Oh my GAWD, this is great, it's So campy, TURN IT UP!" really all that different than that of someone who thinks it's really cool? Either way, it's instant entertainment. Also, without knowing much about actual music, as far as writing and complexity go, I'd say that some non-pop songs are just as easy to "get" as pop songs. Ani DiFranco's first album is full of straight-up love songs... they're straightforward, and easy to understand... to me at least. They are also instantly gratifying... but I also listen to them and still notice new things, as well. Anyway, I have to ask, has anyone heard of Xavier Rudd? He opened for Bitch and Animal recently in Ann Arbor, and he's absolutely phenomenal... he's from Australia, and I understand that he has quite the following in Canada? Okay, that's it for me now. I can't compete with a lot of you guys here. |
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Kamala Member
since 2003-04-17
Posts 59CA, USA |
Is instant gratification such a bad thing? but is my beaming reaction of "Oh my GAWD, this is great, it's So campy, TURN IT UP!" really all that different than that of someone who thinks it's really cool? Hush -- I can't tell you how timely it was for me to read this! Let me explain. My boyfriend has a serious taste for K-pop/J-pop in addition to his VAST collection of black metal/death metal/progressive. Now, those two things would seem really NOT to go together, but he absolutely loves the Asian pop... and it's music that I have considered to be SO BAD. Straight up saccharin. But he'll put it on in the car and start bouncing around to it and poking fun at all the little synth licks and such, and he has a great time. I finally asked him the other day, "do you think this music is 'good' or is it just fun?" and his response was, "Well, it's really fun, and in a way that makes it good." And you know? I couldn't disagree. It's a totally different scale for measuring the "goodness" of music, but in answer to your question... yeah, I'm starting to think that instant gratification *can* make music "good" to people. (otherwise, i can't explain the existence of smooth jazz!) Kamala |
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