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Posting Multiple Poems w/o Replying (Is this Fair to Others)
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Posting Multiple Poems w/o Replying (Is this Fair to Others) |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California 
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It has come to my observation in the short week I have shared moderator duties on the open forum with Nan and Balladeer, a problem that has existed in my own Dark forum for quite some time. Many members will drop by and submit poems without replying to anyone else's poems. This, in itself, presents no problem to me. Certainly we cannot always find the time to read and reply. Many of us hold down jobs and/or are parents which hinders the amount of time we have to write, much less read and respond to others. The problem I am seeing is when a member posts six or seven posts all at once, then disappears into the sunset, not to return again until the following day when he/she promptly posts six or seven replies to their own original posts, then disappears again. One might expect this from first timers, but I am seeing this much more than I can appreciate with regular members as well. My point is this, if one has the time to write six or seven poems and posts them so generously all at once, in the same time bumping seven other poems from page one down to page two, and seven from page two to page three, etc. but cannot find time to respond to even one, I don't see how this can be deemed fair to the other poets. I think we all know how response chances drop once a poem slips from page one. I think we all can agree we like receiving responses on our own poetry and certainly many of us want to hear some honest critique on our work. This is an interactive poetry board which to me means one thing, interact. Personally, for every poem I submit, I respond to at least five others. There certainly is no lack of talent or good poetry or even young poets seeking suggestion on this board. I know we can all find something to say. For every five I respond to, I would like to respond to many, many more. Even so, when those six or seven pop up all at the same time from one member, I am reluctant to even read, much less reply to them. And so I am writing this, most likely in vain, because I know if one can't take the time to read appreciate all the wonderful poetry being submitted on the other forums, they most certainly will not care enough to be hanging out in the Alley. Still, if perchance you are here, all I ask is this; write five poems tonight instead of seven and respond to five others...In the long run, submitting less will allow others to read more of your work anyway and responding to others will only grant you more replies on you own work. Heck, I wouldn't even read seven Balladeer poems in one night. Alicat, thanks for hearing my complaint. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael (edited 09-26-1999).] |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Putting constraints upon the number of postings per day isn't preferable, so let's look at this point from the author's viewpoint. If you post several poems all at once, you're simply going to run out of material faster - If you post one or two a day, then you'll have more to post later - The pressure to continue writing won't hit so soon.... Ya know? Michael is absolutely right about avoiding those multiple posts by the same person, too. If you open one and don't care for it, you won't read the rest - guaranteed!! So - temper your posts, my friends - Believe it or not, the response will be better...  |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
BINGO! Well stated sir! (seven Balladeer posts...don't know if I could handle that either!) |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Not one to sit idly by, yesterday I noticed that passing shadows posted 6 poems in the space of 27 minutes. I sent her an e-mail and advised her that she would be read more if she posted one or two a day..that at least 2/3 of the poems would drop without being read. I check the forum this morning and - sure enough! about 4 of them had dropped to page 2 & 3 without being read. This morning I got a gracious reply from the poet and she agreed to be more careful! (I for one will reply to a couple of hers today as a thank you.) I think it was Christopher who suggested that an e-mail be sent to all newly registered members with the rules of the forum - one of them being multiple postings. I spoke to Ron about it and the software does have the capability to send out an automatic message - it may have to be 'tweaked' (his word) to accommodate what we need. Now! What rules should be sent to new members? A list of forums and the rule for each? Posting hints (no multiples)..reply hints...(? more ?) Another brainstorm of mine was to suggest a buddy system..each newbie would be selected by a member as a 'buddy', contact would be made and hints/suggestions, etc could be given then. (if we go with the e-mail system, that would show Ron just how many bad e-mail addresses there are - at that point, I would recommend a lock be put on that poet until a new e-mail is given). Anyway..my two cents from the peanut gallery! |
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Artur Hawkwing Member
since 1999-06-30
Posts 444USA |
Michael, thank you... I will put in my two cents, although brief... I like PDV's idea of a buddy system, plus I agree with what Nan is saying. Right now it shames me to admit that I cannot organize what I want to say during daylight.....mental block.... for some strange reason, so I will put to rest what I have to say for now. [This message has been edited by Artur Hawkwing (edited 09-26-1999).] |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Everyone's points are well taken. I just returned home, and instead of my usual first visit to OF, I thought I would do instead what I've been reading a lot about lately, visiting the other forums first. Heaven knows, every forum here certainly gives one food for thought, and fodder for even more poetic messages! Michael, I hope you know that sometimes, and especially when I have brain freeze and nothing is forthcoming, I do go in and reply, and at the very least, let people know I've been there to read, unless [and this is hard to admit] I did not understand the poem, or I found it to be objectionable to my tastes. When I've like the majority of the piece, but parts have confused me, or don't lend themselves to the flow of the piece, I remark and ask for clarity. Sometimes that comes, sometimes it doesn't. Just wanted to let you know that I'm trying to be a good poet, by reading first, responding, and then posting! Sunshine. |
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Iloveit Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 1121NM |
well you are right about one thing, I barely have time to TRY keep up with adult, open and critical, hadn't been HERE at all till heard about it from RG... these forums are much more extensive than meets the eye, and some help navigating around for new comers would help a lot I think, count me in if you need help with the buddy system....lol, like I know my way around so well, but am willing to help |
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PhaerieChild Senior Member
since 1999-08-30
Posts 1787Aloha, Oregon |
Since I do not write a lot of poetry myself I content myself with posting replies instead, although a couple of responses to mine, good or bad, would be appreciated upon occasion...if for no other reason than I wouldn't feel like the last kid picked to play Red Rover. I do agree that writing replies to replies for one's own posting is unfair but if the numbers accumulate then they are more apt to be read. I myself would prefer to read on merit, not on numbers. Regarding the email system...I think that a lock is appropriate for all those bad email addresses. After a new, viable email address is supplied then by all means post. And replies should be given especially to newbies as they are just getting their feet wet and need something to hang onto so I will begin to reply more often to those and still try to keep up with those that I read as matter of course. I hope that helps. ------------------ What you hid from your parents as kids, you will hide from your kids as parents. ~Cletus T Judd~ |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Echoes of Michael. ------------------ Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~. DreamEvil© |
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Justbleu Member Elite
since 1999-08-31
Posts 3329Oregon, Originally From Alaska :) |
This is something that Nan let me know the first day I posted poetry on here!! I am glad she let me know!! I strongly agree with much of the above!! Bridgette |
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JTF Member
since 1999-08-09
Posts 319France |
I am a pure "replier" (not to be mixed up with replicant), the main reason being that I think in French and I don't feel that my English is good enough to write poetry ... so I'm only bumping poems up ... is that ok with forum rules ? [This message has been edited by JTF (edited 09-30-1999).] |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
We're here posting so that our work is read... Having you here giving us feedback is what it's all about. We love you, JTF... |
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JTF Member
since 1999-08-09
Posts 319France |
Thank you Ma'am ...  |
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hoot_owl_rn Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750Glen Hope, PA USA |
I may be guilty of posting more than one poem in a day, possible two, usually no more...but in turn, I read every poem posted and reply to aprox. 75% of all postings so I don't believe that to be unfair I couldn't agree with you more Michael And heck, I must be bored tonight read all the poetry postings and since this and Q&A are the oly other things open, here I am |
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Toerag Member Ascendant
since 1999-07-29
Posts 5622Ala bam a |
I don't reply as much as I should to some of the great poetry I find here. And, when I do, sometimes that "smart ass" side of me comes out. I think I can see how some may feel ignored or hurt with few replies and that's a shame...But then again...HAVE YALL SEEN SOME OF THE REPLIES I GET FROM BALLADEER!!!?? LOL |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Hoot Owl & Toe, both of you know better than to think this was directed toward either one of you...now go reply in the open forum instead of here, guessed were all a bit bored, huh? Thanks for the replies, both of you. ------------------ Michael Anderson When God puts a tear in your eye, He puts a rainbow in your heart. |
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suthern
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723Louisiana |
After checking the number of posts I've made, I've decided that's why Ron hasn't left a trail of bread crumbs for me to follow... I talk too much! LOL I'm not a prolific poet... still there are times when I post more than one in a day. I read lots of poems... and I know that I welcome comments to mine... but I'm not going to say anything if I don't like a poem... I simply move on... after enough "move on"s I may find myself skipping that person's work. And there are time constraints... If I can read 10 poems and comment on 1 or 2, I'll do that instead of reading and commenting on 4 poems. As for responses to my own poems, I do appreciate those folks who've taken the time to read and comment... but I don't think a separate "thank you" is necessary for each and every comment! Now... where's the rest of the poems??? LOL. This addict is suffering withdrawal symptoms! [This message has been edited by suthern (edited 10-15-1999).] |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
I may be new here and probably shouldn't comment but I think an execution of some sort would straighten out this whole mess. What do you say, I know a couple of crooked nose gents who have a few cement bags and a map to a remote lake in their car just itching to be used. Personally I like the idea of ignoring the work of those who ignore everyone else's work. The ol' goose and gander thing-a-ma-bobber. Then if asked why no one reads their work explain to them politely why this is so. I believe that going through the experience of not having comments on their work would inspire them to be more generous with their opinions and suggestions....speaking of opinions, that was just mine, take care everyone, Trevor [This message has been edited by Trevor (edited 10-15-1999).] |
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Craig Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 444 |
Trevor Your comment seems to imply that anyone who replies infrequently or not at all is unwelcome here. Is there a rule about replying that I’ve missed somehow? If there is I may have outstayed my welcome, being one of those that doesn’t reply too frequently. |
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Systematic Decay Senior Member
since 1999-09-15
Posts 1301That place with padded walls and funny people in white......... |
Craig, I think Trevor's remark was aimed at people who post multiple poems and never reply to others. However, I don't think ignoring them is the way. I believe that if anyone notices a particular poet doing this, we should skip the ignoring them part, and explain that they should reply too in the first place. I, as a newcomer, was guilty of multiple posting and not replying, and when I wasn't getting replies, I simply posted MORE, adding PLEASE REPLY's onto them. Ignoring will simply make the problem worse. People will feel ignored and hated, and simply leave the forum, and I don't know about anyone esle, but i see this as a bad thing. So maybe if we notice a new member engaging in this behavior, we could e-mail them. Thanks everyone for listening to me ramble. ------------------ "Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage." -Billy Corgan- |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
CRAIG: Are your comments supposed to make me say something like, "Oh no, I didn't mean that you got me all wrong, I'm so sorry. I'm such a fool." Maybe you're not welcome, maybe you are, what do you think? What do I know? In my opinion you have outstayed your welcome, away with you foul creature of no comments J/k, I'm only horsing around, please don't take offense, I'm just a little bored tonight. Actually Systematic Decay was right. I wasn't trying to imply that those who post very few comments should be ignored but rather ignore those who post many poems and give nothing to others yet expect a lot in return. I don't know how much poems to comments you post but if you do post A LOT of poems and seldom reply then I say shame on you....but I have a feeling you don't. We all post for the same reason, to share and recieve comments, either to improve our work or feel better about ourselves. And anyone who only posts their work (and a lot of it) expecting comments, is a very selfish person. It amazes me that there is even this discussion going on, that such a thing as sharing and courtesy has to be taught to teens and adults alike. Don't get me wrong there are times when everyone posts more poems then comments or vice versa but there should at least be some balance so the moderators don't have to pick up so much slack.....I feel sorry for them. Anyways I'm done my little rant. Take care. BTW I think Systematic Decay is right about just asking them to comment.SYSTEMATIC DECAY: You're probably right about skipping the ignoring part and go straight to the helpful hints. But I'm curious, do you think being ignored for a little while taught you a better leason then if you were just told to post comments without really knowing why? Perhaps not, perhaps so, I really don't know but I've always thought the best teacher is experience and any comments on that which one hasn't experienced can only be considered heresay, speculation, opinion or theory. That's why I mention the ignore part (for the experience of it) but I do think you're right about skipping the ignore part, it might be a little harsh. Some might not realize the secrets of getting a back scratched and leave feeling they've been shunned(sp?). Anyways thanks for mellowing my mean spirited ways a bit I just get a little frustrated and spiteful sometimes.Take care, Trevor [This message has been edited by Trevor (edited 10-16-1999).] |
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Craig Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 444 |
Trevor In answer to your first question , yes I was expecting you to say you’d got it wrong! Although an apology and you admitting something I’ve admitted ( that I'm a fool ) for a long time wasn’t expected. As to being welcome, after my last reply, probably not but being the kind of person I am I’m still here anyway ( see above ). What do you know? I have no idea, maybe you should answer that one yourself. There are a lot of different people logging on this site, for a lot of different reasons and in a lot of different ways. Some just read, some read and reply and some just post poetry. I don’t see any problem in people posting and not replying, there could be good reasons why they don’t. Unless there’s a rule that say’s they can’t I don’t think anybody can start trying to change the way they enjoy using this site. Systematic Decay What happens if the people you talk to carry on posting and not replying? Do we then revert to Trevor’s shunning method? Or perhaps we roll out the Electric chair for a good old execution! If you opt for the shunning method how do you know who to shun and who not to shun, should we hold secret meetings in dark corners and draw up lists? Trevor & Systematic I know I’m being a little facetious here and I apologize unreservedly.I do understand that on a perfect poetry site everyone would post and reply in at least equal measure. I'm just a little worried that some people, who may have reasons why they don’t reply, could get trampled in the rush for perfection. PS Does this count as a reply? ------------------ Yes, I admit your general rule. That every poet is a fool: But I myself may serve to show it. That every fool is not a poet. [This message has been edited by Craig (edited 10-16-1999).] |
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RainbowGirl Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023United Kingdom |
Perhaps I shouldn't but I'm going to say it anyway: Thanks for the giggles...ooops HUGS all ------------------ You give but little when you give of your possessions. It is when you give of yourself that you truly give. |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
CRAIG: Anyone who can find time to write and post a dozen poems and not find time to critique at least a couple of poems has a serious definition problem with the word "selfish". I hope your not just trying to defend your own actions  Please give me examples of why a person would be able to write and post a lot of poems but unable to comment on any, if they are reasonable explainations I swear I'll change my opinion, but you said there are lots of reasons why, so please indulge my ignorance and educate me to these reasons. Let me ask you this, If you were living in a group, say a commune, and everyone worked the fields, milked the cows, did the laundry and the cooking, etc. except for two able bodied people who never contributed because they said they didn't know how to do those things or they were too busy, yet always found time to be the first at the dinner table and always had seconds, How would this make you feel? Do you think people like that need to be talked to and explained the concept of sharing? As far as rushing to perfection, who's rushing, I don't remember anyone involved in a race of any kind, I'm not in a hurry.....but lets face it, mediocracy has been done to death, I'd like to read the perfect poem on the perfect poetry site, however I don't think anyone will achieve that if we don't help one another. And the electric chair is a great idea...BRAVO "PS Does this count as a reply?" The answer Craig is no.....replies have to make sense BTW are you still bitter (if you ever were ) about the freedom of speech thingy...it was you wasn't it? and I disagree with you about it, the core of America, along with any country with regards to society, is happiness and the strife for it.....that does however encompass freedom of speech and many other things as well.....if we were all happy do you think people would fight as hard as they do to be heard??? Just a thought....maybe I'm wrong, anyways thanks for making me think, take care and please respond with some examples of why people would be able to post a lot and not be able to comment,Trevor |
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Systematic Decay Senior Member
since 1999-09-15
Posts 1301That place with padded walls and funny people in white......... |
TREVOR, my dear, it would go hand in hand that if you suggested that someone reply, that you would explain to them the reasons why... And if a person ignored my request, there's nothing I could do about it. I'm not their parent. although it would lower my opinion of them, and I may admittedly be less likely to reply to a poem of theirs... ------------------ "Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage." -Billy Corgan- |
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Craig Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 444 |
Trevor I thought I better clear up a couple of misunderstandings that seem to have slipped into your reply accidentally. The first is that I may be attempting to defend myself, that would imply that I am under the impression that I am under attack, I hope you are happy to learn that I am under no such impression. The next misunderstanding is that I said ‘ there are lots of reasons why someone wouldn’t reply’ . I admit that I did say there ‘ could ‘ be reasons and I recall saying there ‘may’ be reasons but I never said there were lots of them. You asked me to give you examples of reasons that could or may exist, I admit do not have any but that only points out my failure to think of them and not the fact that they don’t exist. My first reply on this subject was to question your opinion that people who do not reply to others should be in turn ignored. In that reply I stated that I respond infrequently, I cannot give you ‘ lots ‘ of reasons why people do not respond but courtesy dictates that I at least explain my lack of response. I live in the UK and the way that connection to the Internet works over here is that I have free access to an ISP but am charged at the rate of roughly £1 per minute in call charges ( the ISP receive nine tenths of that from the phone company ). This restricts my time on the Internet, when I first joined Passions the amount of poetry being posted was such that I could easily read every poem posted and reply to many. In total since I started I have posted 60 poems out of a total number of posts of around 400, which means I have replied about 340 times. As more poems started to be posted I found that I was unable to read them all and post poetry and reply, while still being able to afford to eat! As I get so much enjoyment from reading Poetry I am reluctant to cut down on the amount of posts I read, that leaves replying and posting my own poetry, both of which I have cut down on. Any replies I post now are written off-line to be posted later but even this takes time and consequently money. I said in a previous reply that I am not opposed to the general principle that replies should be given if poems are posted, I have attempted to at least balance one with the other. What I disagree with is the notion that a punishment can be given without a rule or guideline to judge that persons actions by being broken. That rule if made must also be set in such a way that any person who ‘ may ‘ or ‘ could ‘ have a good reason for not reaching the desired target is not punished unfairly. If such a rule is brought in to stop the selfish what would be the punishment and would it work? For a persistent offender the answer is no, even if a decision to bar that person from the forum was made it could not be enforced. A member can log on as a different user The IP address they use could be barred but if the user comes directly via an ISP that wouldn’t work either unless you barred all IP’s within that ISP’s range. Even if that was undertaken a user from the UK has a choice of over a hundred FREE ISP’s ! Trevor the final misunderstanding leveled against me was my bitterness to a disagreement in which I played no part. I believe you are referring to the thread where someone was accused of being ‘ un-American ‘. I think you will find I was neither the caller or the called on that occasion. ( Although I did read the thread )! Sorry for the ramble, I hope this is a clearer reply that makes more sense, if not I have missed at least a full page of posts while writing it, which I will gladly accept by way of punishment. ------------------ Yes, I admit your general rule. That every poet is a fool: But I myself may serve to show it. That every fool is not a poet. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Michael....you wouldn't read 7 Balladeers? ** sniff sniff ** |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Here's some kleenex, Balladeer...now chin up boy...'ya know he was only joking!!! ------------------ Denise |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
CRAIG: Sorry about the mis-quotes in my previous response. I went back and re-read the whole thing and now I feel like a tit  I still disagree with you on some things though, "You asked me to give you examples of reasons that could or may exist, I admit do not have any but that only points out my failure to think of them and not the fact that they don’t exist." Isn't it also possible that the reason you nor I can't think of examples is because perhaps the examples do not exist? Perhaps there are no valid or logical explainations to as why someone could post a lot of poems and not critique any. Even if it's a money situation that prevents a lot of internet time, a person could still sacrafice posting the odd poem and instead use that time to write a critique. The only valid explaination I can think of is selfishness and unless someone or myself thinks of another valid reason why a person could not respond yet can post then I have no other choice but to stick with the answer "selfishness". I'm not saying a person should reply to every poem that is posted, that is just too demanding and only on a perfect forum would this happen, but people should make a little more effort to at least attempt to balance out their postings. Also I'm not talking about barring anyone from a forum of anykind. I don't think I've said to bar anyone, from anything, ever. I'm just trying to say that I might ignore those who post a lot of poems and no critiques. Everyone else can do as they please. I know we don't see eye to eye on this topic and there has been a little miscommunication and misinterpretation (mostly on my part) but I will say you have made me think and I thank you for that. I've been in a wierd mood lately and I'm having trouble forming my sentences, so if this post doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense then please forgive, it's the burn-out doing it to me. I'd also like to apoligise for the "un-American" thing. I couldn't find the place where that was posted and I thought it was with you that I had the discussion with. Perhaps we should just "agree to disagree". Anyways thanks and take care, Trevor |
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Craig Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 444 |
Trevor I don’t believe we disagree too much on this subject, I admit there is a problem with some people not replying. My only reason for posting was to try and point out that whatever method is chosen to show those people the error of their ways could ( that word again ) unintentionally harm the innocent. ( The ones with good reasons that I can’t think of but who are sure to jump out of the woodwork fifteen seconds after a fool proof rule is introduced ). My comment about barring was an unfair leftover from one of many threads on this subject, it was never mentioned by you and I was perhaps wrong to bring it into this discussion. Finally, I disagree with your statement concerning miscommunication. If our little debate has been read by even one of the none posters it may have served to communicate to them the depth of feeling there is regarding this matter. ( we may in fact have unintentionally solved the whole reason for this discussion in the first place, now that would be communication at it’s best )! Thank you for your thoughts and the thoughts that they, hopefully, have provoked in others. Take care. Craig ------------------ Yes, I admit your general rule. That every poet is a fool: But I myself may serve to show it. That every fool is not a poet. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I don't think there are any right answers (and probably few wrong ones). But I do agree there are potential dangers with any answer. And I'm not talking about just this symptom (because I think it is a symptom and not a definition of the problem), but about any of the perceived or real problems at Passions. Two quick points (very quick, 'cause I'm snowed and shouldn't be doing even this). 1. This and several other such threads, in a very real sense, come back to what our goals should be for Passions. Do we want a place where everyone does things the right way - which inevitably means our way - or do we accept there is variety in people and make that a strength we can draw from? In truth, of course, that's not an either/or question, because we will inevitably fall somewhere between the extremes - but we should be asking ourselves which end of the spectrum we really want to actively seek. And, yes, this is likely a bad thread to make the point, because we're probably all in real agreement on this one. Some of the other, similar threads (adding a plea for someone to comment) would be better suited. 2. We all have to make judgments and act on those judgments. Can't be avoided. But I think any time, as individuals, we set both the crime and the penalty we are inviting callous injustice. Our perceptions of a wrong doesn't make a wrong, and if we are both jury and executioner there will be inevitable mistakes. 3. Okay, I can't count. I sincerely believe that if we accept people as they are and set the best example we can, one of two things will happen. Either we'll realize they were right all along and we'll change, or they'll come around to our way of doing things. Or, and this thread is a perfect example, we'll go our separate ways. I can almost guarantee you that someone who posts poems and never comments will not stick around Passions very long. This place is not just about showcasing our work - it's about interacting, learning and being part of a larger whole. #4. Just kidding... |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Thank you, Ron. Not much more need be said. Oh, and Balladeer...maybe on a good night. ------------------ Michael Anderson Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream? |
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