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Opinion: Bad poetry
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Opinion: Bad poetry |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
One point that Ron made privately, I felt needed to be addressed. I did not intend to criticize or demean the accomplishments of the free verse poets that post here. I see free verse as artfully arranged prose. People like Izzy, one of my closest friends, write free verse. I was attempting to garner more understanding of it. I wanted differing views presented and explained, so that I could develop a better feel for what it is my friends do. Sadly I did not receive such input. I did receive attacks on my position, vulgarity sent over ICQ, no one presented me with anything to support their view. I am still open to such information, for the sake of friends like Izzy, if not for myself. End of my apology, take it as you will. DreamEvil [This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 07-24-99).] |
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~one voice~ Senior Member
since 1999-07-08
Posts 664Billings, MT USA |
I agree with you on all except for the part about prose...I would call it poetry... When I think of poetry, I think of something that is expressed in a beautiful way-thus, when I think of prose, it is somewhat the same? And who was it that said, "In the end, the poem is not a thing we see; it is, rather, a light by which we may see-and what we see is life." And there's another that goes something like this: "Speech is like trying to nail whispers to a tree. Writing freezes thought and offers it up for inspection." Just some of the quotes that I live by! Essay nicely written!  ------------------ ~onevoice~ "I never kissed somebody so that they would break my heart." |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
DE, I have no idea why you thought it necessary to start a new thread on Poet deVine's topic, basically repeating much of what you said there. It seems to me that makes it very difficult for anyone else to follow the conversation... And please forgive me, but both of your assertions are faulty. No one ever suggested that content wasn't important or was somehow less important than construction. But neither are they mutually exclusive. If you write purely for self-catharsis, then fine - but those poets aren't posting their work for others to read. If you write to communicate to others, then construction does matter. Content is paramount and everyone agrees that is where we should spend the bulk of our efforts. But content without communication is meaningless. I don't personally believe "the message is the medium," but I do believe that the medium can certainly detract from the message. I'm not suggesting, nor do I think I have ever suggested, that our poetry has to be perfect. Well, except for Nan - English teachers have to set an example. What I am suggesting is that we're all here to learn. My intent isn't to discourage writers, but rather to raise their self-expectations. If you spent twenty or thirty bucks on a hardcover book and found it full of bad spelling and ambiguous punctuation, you would be understandably disappointed. You would wonder if the author even bothered to use a spell checker. You would wonder if the author bothered to read his own words to see if they made sense. Should we lower our expectations because our poetry is posted on the Internet instead of being published in a book or magazine? I think we should all strive to be the very best we can possibly be - and spending just a few minutes with a spell checker and reading our own words is just one very, very small step in that direction.Your second assertion is not only insulting to a lot of recognized poets, but also contradicts your first. Suddenly, it isn't Content that is important, but rather rhyme and meter? Mother Goose is poetry? But Sylvia Plath is not? The scratchings on the men's room wall are poetry? But Nobel winner Pablo Neruda isn't? DreamEvil, I really suggest you need to rethink your stance and perhaps better educate yourself on the very thing you are trying to create. If my response seems a bit blunt, I hope you'll nonetheless consider it rather than take offense. The topic if far too important to allow tact outweigh clarity. And you did, after all, wander into the Alley. Encouraging people to write is important. Encouraging people to writer better is even more important. Certainly that includes Content, but it doesn't exclude technique and craftsmanship. I would like to think Learning is why we're all here. |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Just a question, am I not entitled to my opinion? You are correct in that I wandered into the Alley, but is that license to attack my opinions or beliefs? I do not consider a short story with line breaks a poem. My opinion only, yet I have not been harsh to yours. I only state my opposing view. The same courtesy is expected. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, DreamEvil. My intention was not to "attack" your opinions or beliefs, but rather to refute your public statements. When you encourage others to set aside craftsmanship you do them a disservice - however well intentioned I know your comments were meant to be. You have a wonderful poetic eye and everything I've seen in the past indicates you are willing - even eager - to learn better ways to convey your content. I think everyone should be encouraged to learn better ways, not told that technique and craftsmanship are unimportant. And when you express an opinion that your chosen format is the only "real poetry" you are effectively attacking some of the best poets on this website - and in the world. That kind of intolerance doesn't just invite rebuttal, DreamEvil, it demands it. Yes, you are entitled to you opinions. And so am I. |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but you'll notice that I didn't attack yours. I just stated an opposing view, You took it to the offensive, not I. You want to encourage poets to become better at their craft? Why not limit yourself to replying to their work and craft and not their personal opinions? |
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Craig Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 444 |
I’ve watched a difference of opinion concerning poetry good and bad unfold here in the alley and am a little confused, one person said poetry was this and the other said poetry was that, then the first person was upset that the second person didn’t like what the first person said, and so removed what they had written in the first place and wrote a second piece defending their right to have an opinion as stated in the first place in the first piece, the second piece remained. What gets me is if the first person had an opinion in the first place why remove that opinion when the second opinion arrived? Surely if the first persons opinion was flawed in the first place and he was having second thoughts about the first piece, then why not just agree to the second persons opinion in the second piece. If on the other hand the first person still held the opinion given in the first place why not say so in the second place to answer the second persons remarks? Now I find the first person rethinking his position in the first place and attacking the second person for instigating second thoughts on the first persons first opinion. Can we not just say that poetry IS and leave it at that |
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Gentle Soul Member
since 1999-07-12
Posts 273Vinton,Ohio USA |
I am no poet... I dont know diddley about anything of a "proper poem" I dont pretend to know.. but I do know.. that when I had a problem in my life.. DreamEvil introduced me to this forum.. it helped me.. for a season.. my poems wasnt great.. but it helped me vent.. but.. there are wrong ways and right ways to tell a person they are wrong.. publically slamming someone without confronting them.. is.. harsh.. now.. maybe it wasnt intended as a slam.. it probably wasnt.. I dont know anyone here.. so I dont know... But.. I do know that.. I must say farewell to this forum.. Im not good enuff for it.. [This message has been edited by Gentle Soul (edited 07-25-99).] |
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Ladycat 
since 1999-07-05
Posts 782At the edge and a doorway,TX |
Here is the thing.. I wrote something about free verse poet before and it is in The Alley.. We are not prose writers.. I do poetry from the heart and soul.. I think that this a style of beauty.. I know that some ppl may not like the way that it is, but they don't have to read it.. None of the netpoets have ever been that way to me.. Freeverse poets get writer's block too.. I don't think that it would fall under the category of Bad Poetry though.. Gentle Soul there is no reason for you to leave.. We appreciate everyone's poetry here no matter what kind it is.. Why should we have to stop and judge? What is with the in fighting going on? We are here to post poetry, read new poetry, greet new poets, and LEARN from one another!!!!! I would only hope that this is not the way that this is going to stay.. WE are all POETS!!! "Sometimes at night the wolves are silent and only the moon howls" Lady [This message has been edited by Ladycat (edited 07-25-99).] |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
I did not mean for it to be classified as such. This thread was originally an essay written on bad poetry. The remark about free verse was an addendum to the piece. While the addendum was out of place, it did not deserve the "attention" it got. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I must say, this forum was aptly named. I'm putting my two cents in. DreamEvil..you deleted your original message from here, so there will be misunderstandings about what you stated originally. Here is what Coleridge said about poetry: "I wish our clever young poets would remember my homely definitions of prose and poetry; that is, prose - the best words in the best order; poetry - the best words in their best order." This discussion began many, many years ago. We won't settle it, our children won't settle it. It's a matter of opinion. Let's not fight Let's write! [This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 07-25-99).] |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
I removed the essay because it was felt to be extraneous. |
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Ohme Senior Member
since 1999-07-17
Posts 816Texas |
If we all saw the world through a shared eye we would be condemmed to tunnel vision. We must expect some differing opinions. And without them our poetry would have little emotion. Perhaps we should respect each others work, and their effort even when we have a difficult time understanding it. May I smooth the rumpeled feathers. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Howdy Kids... Had a chance to check back in and found my alley in an uproar about poetry and prose. Who cares? Are you writing exclusively for the 'feedback' and 'ego stoking'? If so, why not consider a career with Hallmark? And, if you are writing solely for the purpose of purging your soul of all the evil little dark secrets and life issues you've accumulated over the past years, fine...just please keep them skeletons in your closet...there are some things I just don't want to know. Now, before all the peoples I have duely offended burn me in effigy, keep in mind my sense of humor, and I have found this discussion funny. Who cares what is or is not poetry or prose? I write what I want to irregardless of poetic niceties, but sometimes it just happens...one of them there residues from a liberal college education. I write because I love to write, not because I love posting every little trite detail in some rambling monologue...I do have some privacy. One final note before I end this diatribe. I know that newbies get enthused about a poetry forum that they can use as a private (semi) journal, so they post their entire eclectic free-verse collection, one right after another. Not that this is a bad thing, neither a good thing...it's just a thing that grates my nerves. I can't help but feel that Ron et al would have my hide and ban me permanently if I scanned in all 1800 of my poems, cut and pasted, and served them up raw one right after the other. Wow...what an image.  Alicat P.S.: DreamEvil, I noticed something in your first message...Ron discussed something with you in a private message and you aired such? I do hope I am misreading that. If you have an issue with a certain person, email them and hash it out, but don't put such on an open bulletin board. I do so hope I misread those few lines, for if not, then I have no use for knowing you, if anything I say in trust will not be honored, if every discussion is aired like laundry, or if indeed there are no more private conversations. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm a throwback to an earlier time. Maybe my dad raised me differently. But it would appear that honor, integrity, and trust are sadly lacking in your world...how sad. Now to write several musings on this point and post them. --Alicat [This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 07-25-99).] |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Well, I've kept my mouth shut long enough. I hate to get into these things because I never know when to shut up and, invariably, always manage to say the wrong thing. But let me say this. I posted a poem on another site and was met with the comments "What are we gonna do, turn this into a rhyming pit?" Now, here, in this land (and I mean this sincerely) of wonderful friendship and camaraderie) I am seeing the same thing. One of our poets posted a complaint about the amount of rhyming poetry here. I didn't see DreamEvil's original comments but, from what I can piece together, they seem to be detrimental to free verse poetry. We all have the perorgative to write in the manner we choose and also to respond to poetry we like and ignore poetry we don't like. If either one of you, or anyone else, is dissatisfied with that, the answer is simple. Get the hell out. No one is forcing you to be here. You're not under contract. Why free verse poets have to feel threatened by rhymers, or vice-versa, is beyond me but I don't see why an association of hundreds of nice people who just want a decent place to post their work and get a comment once in a while should be threatened or have to be exposed to this internal bickering. You want it your way and you want us to want it your way. Ain't gonna happen. Accept it or leave it......but stop whining about it. |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
Ok. My turn. (whew! do I really want to do this?... who knows... here goes) Bickering will get us nowhere. I frankly do not feel anybody is threatened by anybody else. Of course, maybe I'm being too simplistic or giving too many people the benefit of the doubt. It's a matter of writers looking for an audience, IMHO. Perhaps all of this can be resolved if we separate the forums and make a "Metered Rhyme" forum and a "Free Verse" forum.... I don't know, seems like Ron has better things to do with his time, if you know what I mean. But, geez, we are all writers, here. We try. Some of it sucks. Some of it is publishable. We are here to learn from each other and to respect each other, no matter how far along we are in developing our craft. It can't be argued that free verse is not a valid, respected form of poetry. There are just too many well-respected published free verse poets out there. Obviously, rhyming metered verse is also valid and respected.... thus the classics. (But, btw, some free verse poets are also considered "classic"... think e.e. cummings, etc.) We all want to know we have an audience here, that's all. And we should respect each other, not feel threatened by anyone. One poet makes a remark about how there seem to be many more free verse poems here than rhyming ones and wants to know if free verse is welcome, and another poet makes a remark that free verse isn't REAL poetry.... C'mon, guys.... cut it out.... Enjoy each other and learn from each other. Free verse isn't "cheap" verse. Rhyming verse isn't all "hallmark card" material. Stop arguing and start learning from each other and digging beneath the surface for the TRUTH behind what we are saying.... which, I think, is the sole purpose of poetry.... to paint a picture of truth in a moment of time. I will close (you are all shouting hurray!) with one of my very all time favorite poems by Gerard Manley Hopkins: Pied Beauty. By Hopkins, Gerard Manley . Glory be to God for dappled things - For skies of couple-colour as a brinded cow; For rose-moles all in stipple upon trout that swim; Fresh-firecoal chestnut-falls; finches' wings; Landscape plotted and pieced -fold, fallow, and plough; And all trades, their gear and tackle and trim. All things counter, original, spare, strange; Whatever is fickle, freckled (who knows how?) With swift, slow; sweet, sour; adazzle, dim; He fathers-forth whose beauty is past change: Praise Him. |
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~one voice~ Senior Member
since 1999-07-08
Posts 664Billings, MT USA |
I feel very uncomfortable with all this upheaval... so I am going to try and solve everyone's problem. No opinions, just the facts... As stated in the Random House Webster's College Dictionary: poetry: 1. literary work in metrical form; poetic works; poems; verse. 2. the art of writing poems. 3. prose with poetic qualities. 4. poetic qualities however manifested. 5. poetic spirit or feeling. 6.something suggestive of poetry. free verse: verse with no fixed metrical pattern. There you have it folks... Can't argue with Webster, can you? Now please........ Can't we all just get along? (See, even I was wrong!!) ------------------ ~onevoice~ "I never kissed somebody so that they would break my heart." [This message has been edited by ~one voice~ (edited 07-25-99).] [This message has been edited by ~one voice~ (edited 07-25-99).] |
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Gentle Soul Member
since 1999-07-12
Posts 273Vinton,Ohio USA |
ok guys.. to clear up an image that I may have made myself look.. Im not totally a gripy, depressed, always dissatisfied selfish little ----- well.. fill in the blank its just.. misunderstandings happen.. and I never intend to offend anyone.. and I may stay.. but if not.. Im not leaving on a bad note.. Im fine now.. and I thank you.. I get edgy sometimes.. life isnt a bowl of cherries right now for me.. in fact.. there isnt a bowl.. just a couple cherries here and there... but anyways.. DreamEvil is a very good guy.. and he never meant to start the bickering.. but we are all humans.. and He is one of my very best friends.. and I will stand by his side... LadyCat.. sometimes I feel like Im not good at poetry.. that would be my reason of leaving.. personal feelings.. and reading this just added to the fire.. and then my little brain (being imperfect as I am) decided to forget how I felt and blame others.. and I was wrong.. Also.. I would like to mention.. Dream was settling the problem b4.. he did post a thank you poem to Ron.. and to Ron I say.. "Ron.. I dont know you.. therefore. I wont make judgements about you.. and if I offended you.. I apologize.. was a misunderstanding on my part. Im sure.. " ------------------ Gënt£ë¤§°û£ |
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Ladycat
since 1999-07-05
Posts 782At the edge and a doorway,TX |
All that I can say now is that we have just about gotten everyone over here to place there view on the subject and I think that it is wonderful that we all got together even though it had to be something as petty as this.. I'm glad that we all can find an understanding.. Gentle Soul remember that even if you do decide to leave that you will always have a place here with the netpoets and I think that everyone will agree with me on that.. I'm glad that so many ppl put in their point of view and I was able to learn from all of this.. Thank you all.. Now can we go back to being family again and put this behind us? ------------------ Live in my world just once and you'll find yourself enraptured. |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
I would love to, but no one wants to answer my original question. Why is that? |
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fjones Member
since 1999-06-07
Posts 98MS |
I am going to explain why some people write free verse. As for me when I am feeling strong emotions the words just flow on to the paper. What comes from the soul sometimes cannot be edited for fear of losing the depth of meaning. Take this I wrote after my son lay in a coma for three months unable to completely wake. These words just came from my very being after his funeral. –So all of you listen –Spelling, grammar, structure , and everything that makes a correct poem is a great accomplishment but it’s the heart that counts. Poetry is like everything in life you can fake it just so long then you start having to nit-pick because you are not writing or reading with your heart. Freedom What freedom must be like after being trapped-No pain, fear or sorrow. Oh how the heart must soar the first moments in the presence of God- Feeling the overwhelming joy, understanding all things, enjoying the sweet reunions. My beautiful son, you woke whole and perfect, released from the trap of coma. [This message has been edited by fjones (edited 07-25-99).] |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
fjones, thank you for taking the time to explain your views, the first to do so, I would add. I think the problem I have is not with the free verse work, but in my perception of it's definition and the definition of poetry. The definition states that prose with poetic imagery is poetry. My problem is this, would you say "poetic poetry"? Probably not, seems redundant to repeat it. So saying that prose is poetry and vice versa is a bit confusing. By explaining your point, I think I see the poetry in the words. I have been applying the primary definition of poetry instead of the less tangible ones. Thank you, very much for taking the time to explain your position. It has helped considerably. |
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anonyogi Member
since 1999-07-16
Posts 174United States |
"Can we not just say that poetry IS and leave it at that " I wish that we would. You see, when we spend too much time hammering people on meter, form, and grammar, we can end up stifling creativity. Especially when it is a new or budding poet. There is so much poetry out there that it really is hard to say what is absolutely good or bad. I know I have written things that I hate and other people love, and visa versa. We all know that something we consider to be a good poem touches us, moves us, or makes us see or feel what the author wanted us to experience. What we may consider to be a bad poem is something that we either cannot relate to or was poorly communicated. Free verse vs rhyme or whatever; when you pigeon-hole yourself like that you are limiting your own creativity. Yes, we all have our prefered method of expression, but we shouldn't exclude other forms just because we do not use them. ------------------ Anonymous Web Poet |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
DE, why do you say nobody's attempted to answer your question, when several of us have. In my post above (scroll up), I wrote my own definition, "The sole purpose of poetry.... to paint a picture of truth in a moment of time." Of course, the dictionary definition includes verbiage of "imagery & meter".... In my post above, I've included a poem written by Gerard Manley Hopkins, a highly respected and acclaimed poet. This poem DOES NOT rhyme and I included it as an excellent example of free verse using imagery AND meter. It flows off the tongue. It is beautiful. It envokes our emotion. It creates feelings within our souls. Can you say this is not poetry because it doesn't rhyme? Of course you can't. Have you ever read Shakespeare? Much of his work doesn't rhyme yet it is metered and flowing and... omigod... POETRY without question. Geesh... I don't get why you don't get it. Did you read the Hopkins poem I posted? Scroll up. Read it 2x, then tell me what you think. Does it rhyme? no. Does it have a metered rhythm. yes. Is it poetry? Good God, of course it is. Ok, I'm done.... aren't you glad? Geesh.... hehehe |
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Ladycat
since 1999-07-05
Posts 782At the edge and a doorway,TX |
One more time for me, then I shall move on.. Free verse for me is a fast and easy way of getting a thought down at the time.. Sometimes I change over to other styles, but most of the time I just leave it the way that it is.. As I see it or feel it I wrote it.. Free verse is a form of poetry that if done right it will flow like the other types of poetry.. It is not that I wasn't taugh how to do other styles or that I don't know how to do other styles.. It's just that I love free verse.. I am a free verse writer and that is the way that I'm going to stay.. I guess that also over the years of doing other stuff I got use to that style and I made it my own. I guess that free verse is here to stay; whether or not anyone likes it.. Love, Lady ------------------ Live in my world just once and you'll find yourself enraptured. |
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Red Letter Member
since 1999-05-24
Posts 85Allentown, PA |
feel like I'm walking into the middle of a warzone, but what the hell. i'm always up for a good time Okay, first off, I think I missed something - who said that they "hated" freeverse? And Baladeer, my friend, were you refering to me when you said that one poet on the forum complained that there was too much rhyming poetry on the forum? I hope not, but just in case, I was not complaining that there was too much rhyme, simply not enough freeverse. That was all. And if you read my comment further along in the same thread, you will see that I very much defended all those wonderfully talented rhyming poets, which I much admire. I just would love to see more freeverse, that's all. Didn't think that would insult anyone and if it did, please know that was the furthest intent from my mind. (After all, I have written quite a bit rhyming poetry myself - why would I venture to insult that format when I indulge myself in it at times?) Secondly, Ladycat made a comment above: "Free verse for me is a fast and easy way of getting a thought down at the time..." Ouch. I know you didn't mean to but you did a very GREAT disservice to all of us freeverse poets out there (including yourself). Any quality freeverse should neither be "fast" nor "easy". It is IN NO WAY "COP-OUT POETRY". I don't think this is what you meant - I have read and admired much of your work, I just want to be certain that you were not misleading anyone who may not understand the concept of freeverse poetry. I don't care what anyone says or how talented a writer one is, quality freeverse is NEVER an easy task. Nor is any quality writing for that matter. Well, I've got more to say (don't I always???) but I'll refrain. I hope all you people can work out whatever it is that's tied all yer panties in a knot and maybe hone all that fabulous energy into WRITING! LOL (just kidding with that comment above... just in case) |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Doreen,at this point, water under the bridge. Thank you for taking the time with this. |
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Jessica Pahre Junior Member
since 1999-07-22
Posts 12Fort Polk, LA, USA |
Oh my. I've only been around for a few days, and so don't know that I'm really qualified to stick my two cents in. But having read over everything that everyone's said...well, I felt something tugging at me to pop off with my own opinion. Poetry sings. No matter what its form, or topic, or length. We all write for different reasons, with different styles and skills, and when everything is said in done, what comes out is both personal and public. It says one thing to its creator, and another to every other person that reads it. Gleeful, funny, sad, thoughtful, wry, clever... everything that I've seen posted in the forums is something that someone put time and effort into. I've always believed it doesn't matter whether anything I write can be classified as poetry or prose. Those of you who have seen my poems in the forum -- and yes, I refer to them as poems, because that is how they feel to me, the one who wrote them -- know I'm a rabid freeformer. But that doesn't mean rhyming verse is any better or worse a form for poetry. For anyone to say 'Freeform poetry is NOT poetry' is just wrong in my mind. Just as wrong it would be to say 'Rhyming poetry is dead, get with the time, peoples'. If it sings to you, or someone who reads it, it's poetry. If it opens up that warm fuzzy glow in your chest when you read it, it's poetry. If it makes you cry, giggle, sniffle, or grin and does so in a lyrical form...it's poetry. The sentiment behind what's written is what matters. Not the form it comes in. I guess what this all boils down to is don't knock what other people put blood, sweat and tears into. Your prose may be another man's poetry, and vice versa. And yes... this is just my opinion. If I've offended, please feel free to email me with objections. If I haven't made any sense, well... perhaps that was my ultimate goal after all. This place is maintained, with much hard work, for the enjoyment of those who come here. Enjoy it, thank those who work so hard to make it available, and let's just write! --Jessica steps off the soapbox, scuttles back into her corner-- |
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Darquewing Junior Member
since 1999-07-30
Posts 20 |
This may sound really strange, but I think people need to lay off of the free-verse thing. Like all things artistic, it is merely the way the artists do their thing. As Ron said it is the content of it that matters.People do it cause they like it, and again, like an artist, really shouldn't give a **** about it what other people think of what they do and how they do it.. Not to be rude, but if you don't like something I'm doing or they way I'm doing it, I'm not gonna quit for ya'. Also what I would like to say is...Who cares how long it takes you to write a piece? This is something I've never understood. I can tell you straight that I write fast...I think fast. So what if someone likes free verse because they can put ideas down faster. I write rhyming and I still do it faster than most people write anyway. And lastly Dream Evil, people do free verse cause they like doing it...love it or leave it. ------------------ KEEP THE DARQUENESS ALIVE! Darquewing |
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Red Letter Member
since 1999-05-24
Posts 85Allentown, PA |
"I can tell you straight that I write fast...I think fast. So what if someone likes free verse because they can put ideas down faster." Oh my my my my my my.... No offense to you, my friend, but I couldn't disagree with you more. The POINT of freeverse is not because it can be written FASTER. (I can not even begin to explain the pain in my heart when I read that...) Just because you don't have to think of a good rhyme doesn't mean you don't have to THINK. I promise you, sir, that if you wrote out your thoughts, left it alone for a while, went back and line by line decided how each could be written more eloquently, with more imagery, more imaginitively, more creatively - not only would you be writing higher quality poetry but you would find you will be much more pleased with your work. The more time you put into it, the more personal it becomes. I say this because I, too, think fast. Hell, I talk fast too (you'll be finding that out soon enough in DC, eh? hehehe) - and I also used to write "fast"... I'd write a poem in 5 minutes, be pleased with myself for being so damn creative and slap that sucker on a webpage. Well, the more I wrote, the better I got - and the better I got, the more I began to strive for perfection in my writing. I look back today on that 5-minute poetry (I've been writing for a year now, so this isn't so long ago), I can't believe how much BETTER I've become. No, I'm not an accomplished poet, not by a long stretch but I'm pretty proud of the strides I've made. I've got a far more to learn as well but I'm still improving and that makes me feel even better about my work. What's my point? (I swear, I actually do have one) That it was by taking my time with my work that I became better at freeverse. Please don't take this as an insult but I can TELL when a poet hasn't taken that much time with their work. IT SHOWS and others can tell as well... Anyway, I just really felt the need to respond and I do hope you do not take any offense at what I said - but I don't want others to misconstrue what freeverse is all about. Like I said above, it is not COP-OUT POETRY. By no means - in fact, it takes the same amount of talent, creativity and work as any other QUALITY piece of writing, whether it rhymes or not. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Red, the time and care - and devotion - that you apply to your work gives you at least five years experience, not just one. I first saw your poetry around December (even before you submitted to Passions), and I thought it was darn good. But what you're writing today is almost in a different league. You have grown by leaps and bounds and, right now, I see no end in sight - every poem gets just a bit better than the last. They say "Practise make perfect." Nope! Practise only makes you old. Practise and a burning desire to improve are what makes for perfection! Oh, and as I've said in these forums before, good free verse is much, much more difficult than more structured poetry. It's like building a magnificent cathedral - without any floor plans. |
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Darquewing Junior Member
since 1999-07-30
Posts 20 |
I've been writing and painting since I was six. That was fourteen years ago. In my time I have found that the more you fiddle with anything the less it ends up looking like what you wanted it to be. I understand that many time it will look prettier end the end...but you have to make sure not to lose any of the feeling of it. It works best to say that when you paint, the more you mix the paints tha more they turn into a brown nasty color. I feel tha same about writing. I usually leave it alone after I do it(except for typo's and really bad grammar) I would rather have what I meant, completely raw, no refining it into what people might like. Same as I paint. I can also take my time. I may never replace a pen or paint stroke, but it may take an hour to put that first letter or color down. And those many a times are the best, then again... I may have spent a lot of time on something fruitless. Anyhow, I ramble, the idea is that nothing is ever really better than the next. In different eyes do different things appear beautiful. I look for intensity, pure unadulterated power. To me, refinement can be a hassle and a bore. For why spend time on something I already did when I can go on to something new? Open-mindedness is everything, though. For wiht out it, art in general would turn stale and old. Let everyone see things as they may and enjoy what they can as best they can... ------------------ KEEP THE DARQUENESS ALIVE! Darquewing |
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Red Letter Member
since 1999-05-24
Posts 85Allentown, PA |
Wow, thanks Ron - because I admire you and your work as much as I do, your comment means more to me then you probably realize. Darquewing - I suppose everyone has their own style and would never slight a person for how they write. I, personally, don't feel that I am losing the 'genuineness' of my writing by revising (on the contrary, most of my work reads pretty much like an open diary). But your point is well taken. I can appreciate your opinion and do hope you can appreciate mine as well... Thanks for the comment... |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Why am I always the last to get in on these things? DreamEvil, I tried to talk to you and you shut me out, just has you seem to do with anyone who disagrees with you. Such is your loss, for the ideas of others are what growth is made of. I've read this whole discussion thread and am truly amazed. I've spent my life seeing conflict in this world: Black vs. white, right vs. left, straight vs. gay.... now it's free verse vs. rhyme. What a waste of energy, no wonder humankind has groveled in this stinking pit for so long and not evolved into our glorious potential. Poetry, prose, freeverse, whatever you call it is a gift of beauty and joy. Our darkest thoughts and brightest hopes conveyed in elegant phrase and rhyme... why sully this gift with pathetic bickering? Ars longa, vita brevis JP |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Perhaps all of the people in the forum should look at their own actions to determine if they practice what they preach. ------------------ Shall I indulge in flights of fancy hampered by clipped wings? DreamEvil© |
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TheGreenPolarBear Junior Member
since 1999-05-23
Posts 38Kansas |
Looks like my post I just made would've fit in better here. Ah well, that's what happens when I read in a random order determined by my own whims. And as long as I'm here, I'll say that I do agree with Darquewing, that's the main reason I don't always heavily revise. I'm not saying I NEVER revise, but ever since I've started reading more poetry by poets like Kerouac, I feel like the more I revise, the more I lose the original emotions and ideas I was trying to get across. So, I guess that's just a repeat of what I already said, but you'll all survive. *grins* The Green Polar Bear P.S. See JP, you're not the last one this time.  |
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