Happy Birthday, Stimulus - Sorry, Can't Afford a Cake

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Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

0 posted 2010-02-17 05:55 PM

WASHINGTON – Vice President Joe Biden asserted in an interview Wednesday that taxpayers have "gotten their money's worth" out of the $787 billion stimulus program that Congress passed during the depths of the recession.

In an interview broadcast on CBS's "The Early Show," Biden defended the program against accusations by Republicans critics that it hasn't been the job-manufacturing machine the administration promised to the American people.

He argued that money invested in both private and public-sector initiatives has saved as many as 2 million jobs, and said, "I don't think they realize it." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100217/ap_on_bi_ge/us_biden_economy

Two million jobs? Well, let's see...

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House has abandoned its controversial method of counting jobs under President Obama's economic stimulus, making it impossible to track the number of jobs saved or created with the $787 billion in recovery money.

Despite mounting a vigorous defense of its earlier count of more than 640,000 jobs credited to the stimulus, even after numerous errors were identified, the Obama administration now is making it easier to give the stimulus credit for hiring. It's no longer about counting a job as saved or created; now it's a matter of counting jobs funded by the stimulus.

That means that any stimulus money used to cover payroll will be included in the jobs credited to the program, including pay raises for existing employees and pay for people who never were in jeopardy of losing their positions.

The new rules, quietly published last month in a memorandum to federal agencies, mark the White House's latest response to criticism about the way it counts jobs credited to the stimulus. When The Associated Press first reported flaws in the job counts in October, the White House said errors were being corrected and future counts would provide a full and correct accounting of just how many stimulus jobs were saved or created.

Numbers published later identified more than 640,000 jobs linked to stimulus projects around the country. The White House said the public could have confidence in those new numbers, which officials argued proved the administration was on track to keep Obama's promise that the stimulus would save or create 3.5 million jobs by the end of this year.

But more errors were found, with tens of thousands of problems documented in corrected counts, from the substantive to the clerical. Republicans have used those flaws to attack what so far is the signature domestic policy approved during Obama's presidency. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-12-stimulus-counting_N.htm?obref=obin      site

Biden says the country has gotten it's money's worth? Well, let's see.....

Stimulus funds going to slashed programs

WASHINGTON — More than $3.5 billion in economic stimulus funds are going to programs that President Obama wants to eliminate or trim in his new budget.
The president's budget released this month recommends getting rid of Army Corps of Engineers' drinking-water projects, which got $200 million in stimulus funds, and a U.S. Department of Agriculture flood-prevention program, which received $290 million from the stimulus, a USA TODAY review of stimulus spending reports show.

The administration's budget plan says the corps and USDA programs are inefficient and duplicate similar, more effective work by other agencies. The proposed cuts indicate the programs shouldn't have gotten money from the $862 billion stimulus package, said Tom Schatz of the non-partisan budget watchdog Citizens Against Government Waste.

Obama's proposed budget also includes $334 million in cuts to programs that got more than $3 billion in stimulus money. They include:

• A $100 million cut in funding for maintenance and construction in national forests. The Forest Service got $650 million for such projects in the stimulus package, of which $55.6 million has been spent, according to USDA reports. The White House budget says the Forest Service doesn't need as much money because it is building fewer roads.

• A $44 million decrease in funding for an Interior Department program to thin trees and brush on federal land to mitigate wildfires. The stimulus provided $15 million for the program. The administration says it is reorganizing the program, which has been less effective than it should be because it didn't focus on preventing the fires most likely to threaten homes. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-02-17-stimulus-funds_N.htm?csp=34&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomWashington-TopSto    ries+%28  News+-  +Washington+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

So how has that stimulus money been used?  Let's see.....

                               Education           Energy            Transportation        Safety Net
Total funding       $98.2 billion       $33 billion         $48.1 billion       $207 billion (estimate)
Amount available $69.3 billion       $20.4 billion       $34.1 billion       $120.2 billion
Amount paid out $32.3 billion       $1.1 billion         $8.6 billion         $103.9 billion

The only area even near spending the money allocated is the safety net. What is the safety net? Increased federal payments to states for Medicaid and unemployment insurance. Boosted spending on food stamps. Unemployment insurance payments, which were $10 billion higher in 2009 than originally estimated. No doubt that is important to those needing food stamps and unemployment payments but do you see anything there that would create jobs?

AP - President Barack Obama hailed Wednesday's one-year-old economic stimulus law as an accomplishment that staved off another Great Depression and kept up to 2 million people on the job. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100217/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_stimulus

I guess Obama forgot that the two million figure was shot down and he acknowledged it. He also praised Biden for making sure there were no entitlements paid out in the stimulus bill. Guess he forgot that he had acknowledged them, too, and promised not to do it again.

AP - Vice President Joe Biden says "Washington right now is broken" and the country is in "deep trouble" unless it attacks ballooning federal deficits. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100217/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_biden_on_washington

Joe finally made a true statement....took long enough.

JenniferMaxwell

Member Elite

since 2006-09-14

Posts 2423

1 posted 2010-02-17 07:10 PM

Here’s a link to an interactive map where you can click on your state and find out funds awarded, funds received, and the number of recovery funded jobs.
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx

Ron

Administrator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

2 posted 2010-02-17 08:05 PM

It's always been hard to devise metrics for what didn't happen.

Whether it's all the terrorist attacks that didn't happen because of Bush's actions or all the economic tragedy averted by Obama's, the best anyone can ever do is guesstimate. It's entirely possible that if Bush had decided not to go to war, America would have seen no more incursions than we have. It's equally possible that if a stimulus package had not been passed, American consumers would have kept right on spending just as they have.

Nobody really knows (although many clearly think they do).

What do you say, Mike? If you use your time machine to take back a couple of wars, I'll use mine to take back the stimulus package(s)?

threadbear
Senior Member

since 2008-07-10

Posts 817
Indy

3 posted 2010-02-17 09:18 PM

I have to say, it took alot of gall for Obama to initially call this proposed NEW stimulus bill:  a jobs bill.

yup...another Paul Bunyan story.  (Only 6% of the people believed that last story, by the way)

Hey, Barry:  how's that State of the Union claim working out? :
WE'RE GOING TO DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF EXPORTS!

yeah....and I'm Babe the Blue Ox.

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

4 posted 2010-02-18 01:19 AM

That's a very interesting comparison, Ron. If you'll recall, when Republicans used that argument that Bush saved us from further attacks on American soil, the democrats would have none of it. Now they are using the same argument to claim the stimulus bill a success because of what didn't happen. Did Bush's actions save us from attacks? WHo can say? Did the stimulus bill save us from further economic turmoil? WHo can say? Apparently the Democrats can....at least that's what they are trying to do in their loudest voice. There is no way to prove either one of them.

There are a few facts for certain, though. We were NOT attacked again under Bush's time in office. As far as the stimulus bill is concerned, Obama's claim that unemployment would not rise above 8% was false. The fact that hundreds of thousands more American lost their jobs after the stimulus package was set in motion is true. Obama's claim that it saved 2 million jobs is false, based on the findings of the CBO and other accounting firms.

So we have a president standing up, declaring (1) what is not true and (2) what cannot be proven to show that his stimulus bill has been a success.

....and he expects people to believe it.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

5 posted 2010-02-18 02:36 AM

Mike? Speculate for me what would have happened if we had not bailed out Wall Street?

One paragraph, please.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean

since 2000-02-02

Posts 27738

6 posted 2010-02-18 02:45 AM

And Ron? I rarely jump on yer juice, but um,

"It's always been hard to devise metrics for what didn't happen."

Um. Are you jumping on the irony wagon that the only country in the world that didn't convert to metrics was...U.S.?

The metrics, didn't happen. Not here. We're so sad, we couldn't even jump on a system of TENS.

Ron

Administrator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

7 posted 2010-02-18 06:16 AM

No, Karen, I was using the word in its more literal sense, "the science of measuring." I forget, sometimes, outside the business and science worlds, it has other connotations. My bad.

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

8 posted 2010-02-18 08:54 AM

Serenity gal, I can't. That's the point. All I can do is point out what has happened, even with the Wall Street bailout.....more unemployment and more national debt.

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

9 posted 2010-02-18 07:23 PM

Obama names deficit panel, gives it broad leeway
Reuters

Obama's comments suggested the panel would have the latitude to consider any proposals to cut government spending -- which he warned had become extravagant -- and raise taxes.

Obama said encouraging businesses to create jobs would remain his top priority, but said he had to act on the deficit. "There's no doubt that we're going to have to also address the long-term quandary of a government that routinely and extravagantly spends more than it takes in," he said. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100218/ts_nm/us_obama_commission_deficit_7

He warned about extravagant spending? About a government that routinely and extravagantly spends more than it takes in? HE is the one doing it!!! He is criticizing himself and appointing a panel to come up with solutions aimed at turning around his own actions. Barack, you don't need a panel. Just stop spending!

threadbear
Senior Member

since 2008-07-10

Posts 817
Indy

10 posted 2010-02-18 07:36 PM

I just HAD to post this:
"Miss Me Yet?" Bush Merchandise a Hit Online http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/02/17/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry6216739.shtml

It won't be long before most blog entries re: Obama will be punctuated only by
exclamation points !!

Bob K
Member Elite

since 2007-11-03

Posts 4208

11 posted 2010-02-19 04:14 AM

!!!!!

Balladeer

Administrator

Member Empyrean

since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

12 posted 2010-02-19 08:18 AM

Obama t-shirts will be coming out soon..

LIKE MY CHANGE YET?!?!?!

rwood
Member Elite

since 2000-02-29

Posts 3793
Tennessee

13 posted 2010-02-19 09:29 AM

Serenity~

I can speculate with a few sentences:

We go back to being Capitalists again.

Phony wealth would fold (as it did) and the market would be more mainstreamed for science, food-production, health & technology, etc.

Real estate would recapture worth on a more legitimate scale of fair-market-value.

Small businesses might boom without the competition of mega-subsidized giants.

Subprime lending would be replaced by prime

Credit card debt would trickle back to the days of the epicurean Diner's Club, and the original contracts of American Express.

and so on....

this is only speculation and what I've mentioned might be true in the aftermath of a crash or the aftermath of a bailout.

One thing is sure: The market is tricky and always rife with risky investment opportunities.

but I'd rather risk what I want to risk than be forced into a $700+ billion deal that is a sure loss in too many ways to count.

As for jobs?

The Gov has bought all the credit for new jobs???

Glorified gangsters!!

Bob K
Member Elite

since 2007-11-03

Posts 4208

14 posted 2010-02-19 06:37 PM

You'd need to return to the enabling legislation that permitted that to happen, r. The stuff that was passed during and after the great depression to prevent exactly such stuff from coming down the pike. That kept banking and insurance companies separated, and that kept the government serious about not allowing formation of monopolies. That kept corporations obligated to do business in the public service and not granting them the same rights as human beings. Under those circumstances, corporations didn't need or expect bailouts because their purview was more limited. A not altogether unpleasant situation. Under those conditions, I might even find myself in basic agreement with you.

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