I'm Thinking Of A Number, Do You Know What It Is? It's 911! That's My Campaign Slogan

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Mistletoe Angel

Member Empyrean

since 2000-12-17

Posts 32816
Portland, Oregon

0 posted 2007-11-14 02:17 PM

As much as I love making fun of the Democratic presidential hopefuls as we have done in a parade of new threads these past several weeks, LOL, there's also Republican hopefuls to make just as much fun of!

YouTube: Free Credit Report Commerical

Where to begin? I've found that the more I've heard and observed the presidential campaign of former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, the more I'm reminded of those FreeCreditReport.com commericals, which theater actor Mark Swenson stars in and obnoxiously says: "I'm thiiiiiinking of a number, do you know what it is........It's my credit score!" before telling viewers they can log onto FreeCreditReport.com and find out their credit scores and "can even print it out if you want to!"

Rudy Giuliani, in my view, seems to be setting up the core of his campaign around a single number, "911", and his obsession with this number keeps getting more ebullient every passing month, pitching his campaign almost like a 24/7 FreeCreditReport advertisement.

When I've watched all the Republican presidential debates on television, it seems even on issues not related to foreign policy and national security, he brings up 9/11 on every issue in every response. His positions on government-sponsored health care have even changed since 9/11, and he has referenced 9/11 on why he now opposes government-sponsored health care, despite initially supporting it.

YouTube: The Daily Show: "9/11 Tourettes": September 26th, 2007

Comedian Jon Stewart actually cleverly documented another recent case where 9/11 abruptly changed his position on another issue: gun control. Initially he was very much opposed to gun control, as he points out in one clip from the 1990's, but then presents a recent clip where he mentions he's now against gun control. And what does he reference to explain his change of mind? You guessed it: 9/11!

San Francisco Gate: September 24th, 2007

Even his campaign supporters have built on that narrative very much, with one close supporter even forming a grassroots fundraising group titled "$9.11 for Rudy", where the fundraiser is, you guessed it, $9.11 per person.

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I don't think Joe Biden (who I don't intend to vote for either) could have said it better: "There's only three things he mentions in a sentence: a noun, a verb, and 9/11."

Then again, he needs something to distract the public from scandals such as the sixteen counts of federal corruption charges his former police commissioner Bernard Kerik was indicted on last week. So he's going all-in, depending on one number to be the saving grace of his campaign.......and I wouldn't be surprised if he went all-in with $9.11 worth of chips remaining!

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Ron

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Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

1 posted 2007-11-14 05:35 PM

quote:
Initially he was very much opposed to gun control, as he points out in one clip from the 1990's, but then presents a recent clip where he mentions he's now against gun control.

He went from being opposed to it to being against it? Boy, there's a slippery politician for you!

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

2 posted 2007-11-14 06:37 PM

Mistletoe Angel

Member Empyrean

since 2000-12-17

Posts 32816
Portland, Oregon

3 posted 2007-11-14 06:39 PM

Whoops-a-daisy, someone call the typo police!

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant

since 1999-12-21

Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia

4 posted 2007-11-14 06:55 PM

quote:

He went from being opposed to it to being against it? Boy, there's a slippery politician for you!

Careful -- lest Bill C. or Karl Rove begin a discourse on the difference.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant

since 1999-12-21

Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia

5 posted 2007-11-14 07:04 PM

FWIW -- my own stance as a strict constructionist -- and believing it was the intent of the framers -- I firmly believe any law abiding citizen is entitled to own a single shot muzzle-loading flintlock weapon while participating in a well-regulated militia.

Denise

Moderator

Member Seraphic

since 1999-08-22

Posts 22648

6 posted 2007-11-14 10:39 PM

And I, as a strict constructionist, believe that citizens have the right to bear arms equal to those available to the government.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant

since 1999-12-21

Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia

7 posted 2007-11-15 01:41 AM

So you're ok with everyone having nuclear weapons Denise?

Tanks?

Jet Fighters?

Nuclear Powered Subs?

Apache Helicopters?

Denise

Moderator

Member Seraphic

since 1999-08-22

Posts 22648

8 posted 2007-11-15 07:13 AM

I never said it was realistic or possible in this day and age, but I think the Framers had in mind that the citizens have a right to be armed in order to protect themselves against a possible dictatorial government. So logic would dictate that they have a right to arm themselves with whatever weapons would facilitate that.

Balladeer

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since 1999-06-05

Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

9 posted 2007-11-15 10:17 AM

They can take away my nuke when they pry it out of my cold, lifeless fingers!

Hey, Noah, getting back to the point....I agree with you. Rudy does seem to ride the 911 train every chance he gets. He has also used the "call from the wife during an interview" routine one time too many. Things like this make me trust the man a little less, especially the calls from the wife. If he's not smart enough to know how inane they come across as, how smart can he be? As far as 911 goes, yes, he did a Hurculaneun job there, but it doesn't happen to be hammered so often, when there are actually other things he can be proud speaking of in his political career.

He may get the nomination but he won't get my vote.

Mistletoe Angel

Member Empyrean

since 2000-12-17

Posts 32816
Portland, Oregon

10 posted 2007-11-15 01:11 PM

Another interesting thing about Giuliani's campaign is that he's patenting himself (successfully thus far) as the candidate that will be toughest on national security, yet when you look at all the candidates collectively, Giuliani actually has the least foreign policy experience among the pack, where John McCain, Duncan Hunter and Ron Paul have all served and have the most experience among the candidates, while Fred Thompson and Tom Tancredo at least have congressional experience.

Thus, it certainly involves a great leap of faith among many I imagine to trust he'll be the most effective candidate on national security when he doesn't exactly have a proven record or resume that documents his expertise in that field. Certainly he deserves much credit for lowering crime in New York City during his time as mayor, which may have some appeal, but he certainly seems to pale to most other candidates in comparison in terms of a tried-and-true resume on foreign policy, most notably the aforementioned McCain, Hunter and Paul on the GOP side, in addition to Bill Richardson and Christopher Dodd on the Democratic side, who the former in particular has a long record on diplomacy and willing to face the bad guys in the world.

Of course, I can understand why Giuliani is taking this approach in his campaign, because if not for that his campaign would be killed by his stances on some domestic issues that put him at intense odds with many in his own party.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

oceanvu2
Senior Member

since 2007-02-24

Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

11 posted 2007-11-15 02:35 PM

Everyone should be armed with SuperSoaker water pistols and trained in their appropriate use.

Flaming: Is it possible that opinions might change if the question were couched in terms of every young black man's right to own a 9mm semi-automatic pistol. I think we might hear a lot of "no, I didn't mean that."

Jim

Ron

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Michigan, US

12 posted 2007-11-15 02:54 PM

Actually, Noah, if you spent much time in NYC you might well decide that running it does involve national policies.

Jim, you got something against black kids? I'm not sure the color of a man's skin should be used to determine how much gun we want him to have.

oceanvu2
Senior Member

since 2007-02-24

Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

13 posted 2007-11-15 03:08 PM

Ron -- Nah, I've got nothing against black kids. I'm just looking at what I consider an untenable position, an armed citizenry reduced to one of it's scarier aspects. Equally, someone sold some guns to someone and they came into the hands of the white kids who shot up Columbine. Scary white people, man!

Somehow, the English seem to get along reasonably well without everyone toting a 45...

This is the forum for outrageous statements, no?

Jim

Ron

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Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

14 posted 2007-11-15 06:16 PM

quote:
I'm just looking at what I consider an untenable position, an armed citizenry reduced to one of it's scarier aspects.

The fact you consider it one of the scarier aspects, Jim, and especially the fact you appear to think everyone will automatically agree, is . . . well, scary I guess.

Yes, the English get along without everyone toting a 45. So do we for the most part. The English also seem to get along reasonably well without armed police. Which, at least, is a step in the right direction. You see, I'd be perfectly willing to disarm the populace as long as we also disarm everyone else. The police. The military. Everyone. Indeed, I'd be perfectly happy in a world that no longer produced gun powder. However, so long as anyone gets to have guns I will continue to insist that everyone gets to have guns. In my opinion, it's a basic precept of equality.

Coincidentally, today is the first day of deer hunting season in Michigan. It's a VERY big deal in these parts, generating an estimated 500 million dollars in revenue. Bow hunting season just ended; it's not near as big a deal, though.

Balladeer

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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA

15 posted 2007-11-15 06:27 PM

I've heard about them Michigan hunters. Deer have little to worry about

rwood
Member Elite

since 2000-02-29

Posts 3793
Tennessee

16 posted 2007-11-15 06:40 PM

I lost all interest in him after the SC debate, May 07. He seemed very practiced with a snide side to mask his fear of not having any real answers. Not just on foreign policy, but the way he soapboxes the attacks is just NOT the answer.

oceanvu2
Senior Member

since 2007-02-24

Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

17 posted 2007-11-15 06:59 PM

Hi Ron -- I think that when I post in the Alley or P101, most Pipsters will automatically DISAGREE with me! And they usually do!

I think Pipsters here are generally conservative, with a few corrective dissenters.  No problems with that.  Discussion leaves room for dissent.  This is good.

I don't have a problem with Bambi-blasters either. It's perfectly legal. That's their choice, and they live with it.

It's possible to dissent and be somewhat detached at the same time.  That seem's to be the "respectful" philosophy of PiP.  Since I post on PiP, I truly accept and appreciate that.

I think we are expressing similar sentiments in different ways.  My understanding is that The Alley is about expressing opinions.

You know I can, and have, taken up arms in defense of my country.  Would I have a gun in my house, or be delighted by the notion that "everyone" else does?  No.  I think you are saying the same thing in your way.

Would I try to whack somebody over the head with a hammer if they broke in and threatened my wife and I?  You betcha.  Might not be too effective a strategy, though, since right now even sitting up takes an effort!

Bottom line is, The Alley is an opportunity to express opinions.  I certainly don't have the power or need to impose my opinions on anyone, except at the polls where everyone gets a chance to do that.

On of the intersting things about the most recent Presidential elections is that a candidate tends to win by very modest margins.  This suggests to me that there is a commonality of objective, and a discourse on how such objectives might be achieved.

Pax vobiscum, Jim

Ron

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Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

18 posted 2007-11-15 09:11 PM

quote:
Bottom line is, The Alley is an opportunity to express opinions.

It is that, Jim, but I hope it is more than that, too. Our Discussion forums exist, in large part, because writers don't write in a vacuum. They have to have something about which to write, after all.

Expressing opinions is okay. Discussing opinions is better. And I think being expected to justify opinions is best of all. What sometimes seems to be an almost adversarial system can, I hope, promote deeper thinking on the part of all involved. No one has to be willing to defend their opinions, but in my opinion, everyone has to be able. Otherwise, it's not really an opinion; it's just a bias, something accepted without thought or reason. I would hope no writer wants that for themselves?

oceanvu2
Senior Member

since 2007-02-24

Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

19 posted 2007-11-16 03:46 PM

Definitions offered in defense of my opinion on opinions: All from Dictionary.com

Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Bias: a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question;

Prejudice. 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

Predilection:  A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference.

Synonyms: These nouns denote a predisposition to favor someone or something particular: a predilection for classical composers; a pro-American bias; conservative leanings; a partiality for liberal-minded friends; a penchant for exotic foods; a prejudice in favor of the underprivileged; a proclivity for self-assertiveness; a propensity for exaggeration.

Dogmatism: dogmatic character; unfounded positiveness in matters of opinion; arrogant assertion of opinions as truths.

I feel the love.

Jim

Ron

Administrator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

20 posted 2007-11-16 08:29 PM

Yep.

Opinions are beliefs that rest on grounds (that can be discussed, justified, and defended), while biases rest on pretty much nothing.

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