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| The Alley |
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"Stop The ACLU" Gets ACLU-Esque |
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Mistletoe Angel 
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Jews On First (Original Reporters) Recently, a large Delaware school, which promotes Christianity very much, left a Jewish family, the Dobrichs, living in the district feeling as though they should move to a city two hours away in fear of sharp retaliation for filing a lawsuit regarding religious exclusion behaviors in the school. In 2004, the Dobrich-Doe lawsuit alleged the following: * The district's "custom and practice of school-sponsored prayer" frequently imposed ... on impressionable non-Christian students," violating their constitutional rights. The district ignored the Supreme Court's 1992 Lee decision limiting prayer at graduation ceremonies -- even after a district employee complained about the prayer at her child's 2003 graduation. District teachers and staff led Bible clubs at several schools. Club members got to go to the head of the lunch line. While Bible clubs were widely available, student book clubs were rare and often canceled by the district. When Jane Doe complained that her non-Christian son "Jordan Doe" was left alone when his classmates when to Bible club meetings, district staff insisted that Jordan should attend the club regardless of his religion. The district schools attended by Jordan and his sister "Jamie Doe" distributed Bibles to students in 2003, giving them time off from class to pick up the books. Prayer --often sectarian -- is a routine part of district sports programs and social events One of the district's middle schools gave students the choice of attending a special Bible Club if they did not want to attend the lesson on evolution. A middle school teacher told students there was only "one true religion" and gave them pamphlets for his surfing ministry. Samantha Dobrich's honors English teacher frequently discussed Christianity, but no other religion. Students frequently made mandatory appearances at district board meetings -- where they were a captive audience for board members' prayers to Jesus. * In June of 2004, the Dobrich family wished to speak a prayer in "Jesus's name" but was denied their request. A board member named Donald Hattier spoke with her privately and warned her not to hire a lawyer. At the next board meeting, the mother of the family spoke of her experiences of her own experiences as an "outsider" and how she wants to see to it her children don't live in her shoes. Hattier, again, approached her in private and warned her he had contacted the Rutherford Institute, a religious right legal group. Finally, when the district board announced the formation of a new religion policy, hundreds attended the meeting and applauded the opening prayer but booed at the mother's prayer (a state trooper was there to protect her), with classmates also accusing the Jewish classmate of "killing Christ". Salon: July 3, 2006 Stop The ACLU Campaign: Expose The ACLU Plaintiff (Slightly Edited Today) Recently, the "Stop the ACLU Coalition" decided to publicize the home address and phone number of the Dobrich family as part of an "Expose the ACLU Plaintiff" campaign (even though a Wilmington law firm and NOT the ACLU is representing them) The family decided to flee town for fears of violent attack. * THIS is exactly why while I indeed have my reservations about the ACLU in that I am indeed FOR school prayer and I do believe they go well over the line in some instances in removing the Ten Commandments from public places and even recently denying a valedictorian the right to mention "God" in her speech, I am also FOR religious tolerance and diversity, and I can also never take these main opposition groups seriously as well, like the Stop the ACLU Campaign, because they merely have agendas of their own that make the same mistake as the ACLU by undermining other faiths, when America is all about encouraging diversity, no matter how unusual or unorthodox it is, as long as it doesn't harm or promote blapshemy to others. The fact that NO ONE in the mainstream media is reporting on this is telling; that it prefers to cover news on Britney Spears posing nude on Vanity Fair than a family moving because of being threatened in standing up for their own civil liberties. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" Mother Teresa |
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| © Copyright 2006 Nadia Lockheart - All Rights Reserved | |||
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iliana Member Patricius
since 2003-12-05
Posts 13434USA |
"America is all about encouraging diversity" Exactly, Noah. My ancesters came here on the Mayflower for exactly that reason...not to be religiously persecuted. I think the Constitution was pretty clear on the separation of church and state, but things have gotten kind of foggy since federal government got involved with school funding. I don't know what the answer is here and I don't know if government can make it right. It has to be fixed at a local level. And what the fix is, I have no idea. If you have Christian Clubs, then you should have Jewish Clubs, or for that matter, Moslem Clubs (and I bet that wouldn't fly). So maybe it is best schools don't sponsor those things. Here, they used to allow time for prayer -- it was not led, it was silent. They have taken out all the Christian Christmas music, which is very disappointing for those of us who grew up with those songs in school. Here in the Bible Belt, what has occurred is those who feel very strongly about their children being educated in a school where Jesus isn't excluded, those with the means, put their kinds in private schools; and some have home schooled. If I am not mistaken, I believe there are a couple of Islamic schools around, too. There is at least one private Jewish School. My kids had to go to public school. There is a bunch to be discussed on this issue and I don't know if I really can contribute much, but I'll be reading. It's an interesting topic.  |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Noah, very worthwhile topic for discussion and contributions... Mine is this... You said.... I am also FOR religious tolerance & diversity, and can also never take these main opposition groups seriously as well, like the Stop the ACLU Campaign, because they merely have agendas of their own that make the same mistake as the ACLU by undermining other faiths, when America is all about encouraging diversity, no matter how unusual or unorthodox it is, as long as it doesn't harm or promote blasphemy to others. Yanno, Noah, I believe no matter how you cut it, no matter how some try to comfort everyone thru diversity, there will always be others, who "believe" they can control the thoughts of others by forcing their ideas, beliefs, on others...Its called an obsession with control or force, or an inflated ego of power, b/c someone does not believe the way they do. I'm thinking, when people learn (all of us) what the words allowance & tolerance means, then practice them, then, perhaps this world will be a little more comfortable place to live. WE humans can be so ridiculous, demanding and unreasonable, don't you think? Years ago, an older boss of mine and I were having a discussion about a special interest issue. He said, (and his theory was proven) that it would be so nice to have a perfect world, but unfortunately these special interest groups take an issue to the complete opposite end of the spectrum...forcing not only their opinions down our throats, but also, excuse bad/corrupt or criminal behavior on behalf of their advocates, instead of standing up for what is right and saying, "Nope, I'm sorry, you were wrong and you don't get our support". They have become, so powerful, that of course, they even buy votes. Same with Religions...and religious group leaders...we have to learn to be diverse, and allow others their beliefs...not force beliefs down our throats by control and laws, that only breeds hate, confusion, anger, hurt, takes away freedom and will eventually be our own demise, if we don't. yanno, we all came to this country as immigrants...bringing along our own beliefs...and we should be able to practice our own beliefs...we shouldn't be so darned concerned with being politically correct, more so, we should concerned with being constructive working members of a community, (a team so to speak) because what we do, what we react to, how we reflect, effects the lives of so many other people. We can get along, or we can fight each other, simply because we have separate beliefs...????? To me, if we'd stand back and realize how silly we're being, how controlling we're being...well, it might make us so much more aware...so much more compatible...leaving this place better for the next generation????? I like vanilla ice cream, you might love chocolate...that should be ok, not a reason to judge or question your character...and when it comes down to it, that's how very silly, unrealistic and ridiculous these issues become. Extremism.... For instance, let’s take the Di Vinci Code... (And I don't want to get off the subject, this is simply an example) Last night I walk into my mother's home, and there on the TV are these evangelists still trying so hard to disprove "The Di Vinci Code" Geese Louise, Get over it...it's a movie, it's a book, and it's up to the individual what they wish and chose to believe. Yanno, think about how silly this whole thing is and yet how dangerous it could be? Yet I actually heard one of these evangelists call those who wished to go see the movie, read the book or believe in the concept, fools??????? On the other hand, and the complete opposite I know a man at work, whose Church not only encouraged their parishioners to read and study the subject but places all these books on the topic out in front of the church for those who wished to read were welcome to...now, let me remind you, this is a Catholic Church who believe me, were not initiating the concept of the DiVinci Code but were sending a very important message....read, study, come to your own decision and personal belief.... which is a very good practice...in my opinion.... I mean think about this Noah, way back when, the priests actually burned people at the stake or tortured im-mersifcally (is that a word?  ), if anyone believed in another way, or spoke out in disagreement. If that were the case today, sheesh, believe me, I'd be ashes 20 times over Seriously, these issues to me, are ridiculous and not very realistic. As a human race, we are not progressing, but regressing...we should have learned a long time ago, that fights over religion kill people it’s so darn foolish, a waste of time, energy and lives. It actually demoralizes society....Why, what if this issue, escalated into such a fight that two people would actually kill each other over this issue, lets say, you and me....because one wanted to force their beliefs upon the other...and we became so agitated, they one of us began to strike out with words, humiliating each publicly, (words can kill) and before we knew it, one of us struck the other and killed one of us...dead...??? Was is it worth it, and how does that act reflect on others? Is being right that important? Well, it must be cuz, it happens all the time...(simply trying to make a point at how something very silly can escalate into something very devastating and life threatening, serving as an example to everyone else watching...including our children...it tells them, it's ok to do so) and it's not. It’s not ok to kill people over a disagreement...this whole thing is very very sad...religion and politics...there is not one who can throw stones...we are all in this together...and until we learn, tolerance and acceptance, I'm afraid we will never progress intellectually, as well as, ethically. Noah, I agree with you on this subject whole heartedly... Religious beliefs should be rewarding, privet, personal and significant...but this country was built on the freedom to do so...not so others can force there’s on us, or visa versa, or to judge another due to it...but to respect each others freedom to do so...in so much as tolerance to allow. This is a perfect reason why I cannot tolerate fundamentalism and religion. Every darn religion believes (theirs) is the almighty word...and each religion possesses its own man made rules...and when a religion separates people, or judges others, for their beliefs, then how can they actually expect others to follow? I can write a poem, and 10 other people can read that poem and come to their own conclusion & interpretations about the poem, and that's ok...whatever works for them, yet, personally, it was not the purpose of the poem, and that is how unfortunately, The Bible is constantly fought over...it's absolutely ridiculous...sad, and contrary to anyone's faith...yanno? My faith is a very personal thing, between my God and myself...it's special, it's spiritual and its my right...to sing out about it, to be happy about it...but it is not my right to force it on anyone else, or expect them to believe the way I do, yet I wish to be a working part of my community, to assist if I'm needed, to contribute in any way I can, to make this place a little better then when I found it...to encourage freedom, we must love and be tolerant, not to the point of excusing criminal acts...but to live in harmony...by allowing and understanding we might not be right...no one knows until the day they come to meet their maker, and then we alone will have to atone for our mistakes...personally, I have enough to atone for, I don't want one of those atonements to be, that I hurt another or turned another away from the church b/c I was to forceful and to preoccupied with power and material gain or wealth. There is not one religion above another or more correct, and neither is any human being... many thanks to you for bringing this issue to the table and for allowing me to contribute and express my feelings about it... Hugs Noah Lee J. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
None of the major media outlets have even touched this story yet, but here's a tough transcript exchange between an original reporter of the story (left-wing blogger Jesus' General) and Stop The ACLU Campaign Director Nedd Karieva, which is indeed difficult to read:  Jesus' General: July 5, 2006 * Nedd Kareiva Scrabble Champion Director, Stop the ACLU Coalition Dear Mr. Kareiva, Please allow me to be the first to thank you and the staff of Stop The ACLU for all you did to make the Indian River Pogrom such a resounding success. It isn't easy to run a Jewish family out of town in these politically correct times. Usually, they just hunker down, hiding behind antiquated interpretations of the Constitution and the good will of those who wrongly believe that non-Christians are entitled to all of the benefits of citizenship. But this time, the family fled, and I think you deserve partial credit for making that happen. After all, you did publish their name, address, and phone number on your web site (see screen cap below) as part of your "Expose ACLU Plaintiffs" project. It certainly wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that such information gave people the tools they needed to drive the Dobrich family from their home. Of course, you didn't do it all by yourself. The good god-fearing Christians of the Indian River School District deserve most of the credit. They took to the task of ethnic cleansing with a vengeance , not sparing anyone discomfort, not even the Dobrich children. Congratulations again for the success of your pogrom. I'm sure it's only the first of many more to come as we retake our great nation in Jesus' name. Heterosexually yours, Gen. JC Christian, patriot * * Kareiva responded, * "Pogrom? I'm not sure I want to call it that. That is not an appropriate term, however, I am pleased that we had an effect in this case. We have others we want to put up on the site to shame them but have not gotten around to it. And I'm not so sure I can take credit for it. However, if an ACLU speaker was booed, that's music to my ears. I would appreciate it if you would sign your actual name rather than JC Christian. Regards, Nedd Kareiva Director * * Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" Mother Teresa |
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