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| How to Join | Member's Area | Private Library | Search | Sanctuary | Login | |
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| Main Forums | Discussion | Tech Talk | Mature Content | Archives |
A home without a wall, |
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| The Alley |
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My Final Word on Multiple Posting And Poetry With Very Few Responses!! |
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Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136Mobile, AL 
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As I make my way around Passions I am increasingly tired of seeing multiple posting. It will go on unless there are more strict standards to posting and replying. That is what I believe and will stand by it until proven otherwise. I realize that no one wants to govern Passions in such a way, but the numbers are getting too large not to have some sort of firmer order. Also I look around and see poems with an already large number of replies bumped to the top, burying postings with a lesser number. Threads long replied to are being brought back up like sunken monsters to walk all over weaker ones. There must be something to be done about this. I realize that apparently the postings with the large number are attractive because if it has that many replies then people think it MUST be great; but it is altogether unfair. I also realize that the lesser replied to postings may not be good reading for some, but if we don't like one couldn't we offer advice instead of ingoring it completely? Isn't that part of what we are here to do? This will probably be my loss, but I will post no more poetry here until this situation improves or someone offers a little more than an apology for the happenings here. I don't often raise my voice here, but am doing so now because I can no longer sit back quietly. I have done so, and those times are finished. THIS ISSUE MUST BE ADDRESSED, and if the normal answers aren't working then it is time to contemplate new ones. To make this ultimately clear in case of misunderstanding, I am not stating that I am leaving Passions or that I wish to be removed. I am simply stating that I will not post POETRY here until I feel it is going to be beneficial. If this post gets me removed (and I have faith that it shouldn't) then I would respectfully require something of whoever would remove me. That is all I have to say for now, and I hope that all of my thoughts are clear. Good Day Don't gain my affections and cover my eyes. In blindness I will only swing harder. |
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Dark Angel Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095 |
I understand what you mean here Temptress, I am sure I have missed so many wonderful and brilliant poems, sometimes it's hard keeping up with it all.That makes it hard if you don't have much time online to sit there and read each and every poem, which I'd love to do. If only they'd stay up there long enough.  It would be nice if a solution was found!!What comes from the heart goes to the heart. Samuel Coleridge |
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Astraea Member
since 1999-11-09
Posts 378California! Yeah! Okay, I'm done now |
That is a very true observation; I noticed a lot: poetry going on with somwhere along the lines of zero responses. I've passed over wonderful poetry, then go back and re-read because it's this certain poet, but still don't reply to it because it would bring up an old poem back up again. It's also very disturbing, especially when suddenly that certain writer beings to think we all hate them personally and get discouraged. I'm sure most of us go around reading what we can, but there are so many posts! I go away for quite a time, come back, check on this and...low and behold! There are so many poems to read and yet the ones with so little replies are on the bottom! Mostly I notice that it's the more popular poets [whose works I shall never stop admiring for their talent] getting a lot of immediate attention and then dwindling down slowly toward that ones you remember posting or titles that arouse curiosity. This is a problem [which I probably didn't help with] and, I agree with Temptress, that it has to be noticed a little more except with silence. ~Astraea "Sometimes stars can only be seen in darkness." "Sorrow's crown of sorrow is remembering happier things." |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
This issue has been addressed a multitude of times. There are active threads on it even now in other forums. This site is in some ways restricted to the capacities (vast though they may be) of the software that houses it. We are, however, very fortunate to have quite an erudite programmer (and reprogrammer) at our helm. Ron works diligently behind the scenes to keep the forums running smoothly, and his efforts invariably bring propitious results. He is working on this issue... Perhaps we could give him a break, remembering that this place isn't his job. It's his Passion... |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
I understand your point completely. This is one reason why I haven't posted much. The other is that not much has been going in my brain for writing. But when something does, and I write it out and post it...voila...it disappears. So...the few times I have posted recently have, of course, been in the Pub...as most of the poets here prefer Open. I know Ron is and has been swamped with all sorts of projects, so let's give him some breathing room and time to work those out before tackling this one. But still, there is no legitimate, nor ethical, way to keep readers from reading and replying to large reply posts. Just some early morning ramblings. Alicat, the Persnikitty As I sit here dimly thinking Watching modem lights a-blinking Churning out poetic hash. Lord, in all Your piety, Help me keep my sanity: Please don't let the modem crash! --Alicat |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
You bring up two seperate issues here. One is multiple postings and the other is the lack of replies. I will address each seperately. Multiple postings: There are two issues in this name. The first being authors posting the same poem in multiple forums. This is the problem that is being addressed by Ron in the software. The second is one poet posting several poems at one time. I am not sure of the softwares capablities in this area. Is it possible to limit the number of posts by a specific author? All we can do as moderators of this board is express our wishes to the members. Whether or not they comply is another matter. They tend to learn, in time, that their poems receive more replies when they are posted individually. It is something we all had to learn and we need to be patient. Replies: This issue is subject to personal preference and time constraints. We all are human and we have favorite poets. We wish to read and reply to their works. I do not believe we have a right nor an obligation to restrict a members personal preference. We can suggest and we can ask but we can not make people reply to others work. I am lacking in my replies to poems in open because I am kept busy in teen. I read every post in that forum but do not reply to all of them. I wish I had the time to do so. I read open when I can and generally read url's sent to me and my favorite authors. I try to respond to at least 2 or 3 others while I am there and always try to catch the first posts. We are all human and fall short of perfection. All we can do is try to do the best we can. That is my two cents worth. I hope you see my points. |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Temptress, I agree very much with what Marilyn said. One thing I would add though is most poems you see with large numbers of replies come from and to people who are willing to interact with other people. This forum now has over 2000 listed members, naturally people who frequent it will develop friendships with people who have replied to their works and that they have taken the time to reply back too. I know I look for certain names when I come on to the forums to read first and reply to. That doesn't mean I don't read most everything that comes in here, (believe me I do and that is time consuming in itself), but replying is a courtesy - and usually a two way one. If someone's made an effort to compliment me, I most assuredly will read their postings to try and return a favorable statement unto them. As for most non-moderating members, most do not have time to read every post and end up looking for those who have brought some manner of joy to their lives, not only through poetry, but correspondance. This I can say purely as witness through all my readings. I've said before and I always will - this is an interactive poetry forum, which means one thing, (to me anyway), interact. Even the most talented aurthor would probably see much of his work slip by a board of this size if all he/she did was post or reply to his own work 75% of the time and never make his presence known to others by any other means of correspondance. I, as a friend, naturally hope you will reconsider your position on not posting your work here. You know I have always found it enjoyable. Still, I've known you for a long time and I mean no disrespect to you in saying this but I have not seen you interact as freely on this forum as I have two others, (either past or present),thereby question the nature of this post. It was clear something was bothering you the other day although you were not straight forward with it. Then today, you say you will no longer post here unless it's going to be beneficial. Well, personally that doesn't seem like fair tactic to me, and I am sorry you feel that way. But nonetheless, I also will state a person's "presence" in the forum means as much, if not more then their poetry. If that presense has not been made, where is it going to be missed? I can't help but think of Pepper right now who very seldom post a poem, but is known and cherished by SO many, simply because of her presence. When she does post, believe me the replies fly in, that speaks for itself I think. Just points to ponder. You are a great author and I hope I have not offended you in stating my opinion of the situation you brought up, as I hold your friendship in high regard, also. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-16-2000).] |
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Dusk Treader
Moderator
Senior Member
since 1999-06-18
Posts 1187St. Paul, MN |
I hear you well and I also agree with you, Temptress. In my own haunt, the Prose forum, which is a very slow forum, but also show's these problems well. The greatest percentage of posts has 1-3 replies, but then you'll see one of the more famous authors with up to 8+ replies. It's so unfair, I've watched many brilliantly written pieces sink slowly to the depths with out garnering anymore replies, while a more famous author drops in and gathers 3 to 4 times the normal posts for the Prose forum in a day while other works don't earn it during the posts life. This isn't so bad in itself, the thing that I really hate seeing is people that come into the forum to reply only to the post by that one famous poster. Not to anyone else. With so many posts lacking replies, just a couple moments could give a newbie the support they need so that they'll help keep the forum alive. Noticing this problem had before caused me to reply to every post in said forum, and this I did for about a month, until I was bogged under by school. I think I'll get to work on my crusade again, Thanks for giving me the spirit again to restart my crusade against the injustice of too few replies. (Woo.. feels good to have that off my chest.) In flames I shall not be consumed, but reborn. -- Abrahm Simons |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
I have posted a reply a couple of times to one particular writer in prose because I consider her a friend of mine from Open. That is where I first met her and got to know her from interacting with each other's poems. I don't care for prose (no offense to anyone who does) it's just not my cup of tea, but I will read and reply if a friend of mine writes a piece and I see nothing wrong with this and I don't feel that I owe anyone a reply -period. I reply because I want to. If this seems unfair - well life is that, isn't it? This seems to be such a minor piece of unfairness to me, compared to the more pressing concerns of life....like death, illness, racism, homlessness, poverty, heartbreak of all kinds...a writer's ego to me seems not very important to me. If you see posts that get burried too quickly for your liking what is to stop any of you, whom this bothers, from bringing it back up? I think that would be much easier than complaining about it? I have brought poems back up in Open just because I liked them and felt that they got burried too quickly....and guess what? More people read them and responded!! Try it! You might like the results that it gets! And then there wouldn't be a problem, would there? Just my 2 cents!! Denise And slight is the sting of his trouble Whose winnings are less than his worth; For he who is honest is noble, Whatever his fortunes or birth.~~~Alice Cary, ~Nobility~ |
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JTF Member
since 1999-08-09
Posts 319France |
Denise, you spoke my mind .. Ron, have you ever thought of ordering threads according to the originating post ? |
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Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136Mobile, AL |
Everyone. I just want you all to know that I am following these replies. I had my reply to all of the thoughts typed person by person, and in a blundering idiotic mistake, I didn't fill in all the proper fields(not sure which one I missed). In other words, I lost what took around 30 minutes to think carefully on and type in response. Alas...the text dissappears when you fail to fill it all in, and I lost it all.  PLEASE do not be annoyed, but since it is almost 3am here it is far to late for me to type it all again. I will get to replying as soon as possible. Don't gain my affections and cover my eyes. In blindness I will only swing harder. |
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Elizabeth Santos Member Rara Avis
since 1999-11-08
Posts 9269Pennsylvania |
I, for one will cut back on my postings, which have averaged 1 a day, and will post only those I feel worthwhile. I have already started to answer responses by e-mail to those poems which have slipped to page two so as not to bring them back again. If my poem comes to the front, I'll often try to quickly answer the responses. I don't know what else to do to help the situation. I am not a fast reader and can no longer keep up with the readings, and I only read one of multiple postings if that. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Elizabeth, I personally don't feel that you need to restrict your postings. Everything that I have read of yours has been 'worthy', so to speak, of posting and sharing with the rest of us. I don't see anything wrong with posting 2-4 per 24 hour period as long as they are spaced out and not right one on top of the other which I have never seen you do. Also, I don't see anything wrong with answering your replys publicly in the forum either. I think a public thank you is appropriate to a public compliment. None of the poems stays on top that long anyway and I see no harm in bringing them back up. As I have already stated, if someone feels a poem or piece of prose is burried too quickly, there is nothing stopping anyone from booting it back up. I think there is plenty of room here for everyone's work and don't see any problems. It is very easy to bring something back up thus doing away with any perceived injustices... I feel it would be a great loss if you were to restrict your postings. They add much to the atmosphere of Open and I look forward with anticipation to anything with your name next to it! You also may want to consider posting additional pieces in one of the other forums, as well. I would love to see you post some of your work in The Corner Pub and Spiritual, if you would like! Please, please, please, don't restrict your postings!!! That would make me very blue  Love ya, Denise [This message has been edited by dsnyder (edited 01-17-2000).] |
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Elizabeth Santos Member Rara Avis
since 1999-11-08
Posts 9269Pennsylvania |
Perhaps I will come over to the Pub for a hearty brew. Thanks, Denise |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
You are quite welcome, there, my dear!! Denise And slight is the sting of his trouble Whose winnings are less than his worth; For he who is honest is noble, Whatever his fortunes or birth.~~~Alice Cary, ~Nobility~ |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Let me see if I've got this right: Temptress complains poetry is being buried too quickly, so Elizabeth essentially stops posting and replying, relying on email instead. Is something wrong with this picture, guys, or is it just me? We could accomplish even more, perhaps, by turning off the ability to post - then the poems would be frozen for all time. I can remember when I first moved from Southern California to rural Michigan about two years ago. It felt like I had walked from inside a very crowded elevator into the middle of an open field. No more traffic jams. Rarely did I have to stand in line. People would actually take the time to talk to you. I even learned the names of everyone at my local restaurant. I had gone from being one individual fighting for a place in a mass of millions, to being a person in a small community. And for several months, I really enjoyed the change. Then one night, about two in the morning, I got hungry. Except there are few enough restaurants and stores in this area, and none open so late. And that made me start noticing other things I missed. Like the computer stores. And while I had finally found a good bookstore, I had to drive 45 miles to get to it. That was about how far I used to drive, to Wiltshire in LA, to go to the theatre. Now it would have to be Detroit or Chicago, a few hundred miles in either direction. Museums? Galleries? Those quaint little shops that comprise every California beach community? At best they were hundreds of miles away, waiting in the nearest big city. At worst they were a part of the megalopolis found only on one of our Coasts. I still think there are too many people in Southern California. But I've since come to realize that all the other things that make big-city life so wonderful can no longer exist when you take away the concentration of population. The all-night restaurants, seven-story malls, and all the cultural events exist because there's a whole lot of people to support them. And seemingly like everything else in life, there are costs associated with all those good things. Traffic jams, standing in line, neighbors who remain strangers for years. Advantages and disadvantages. Open Poetry is Southern California. Lots and lots of people, with growth that just seems to never slow. Your poetry will receive a lot of attention in OP, but it'll also see a lot of competition. Advantages and disadvantages. I don't think you can ever have one without the other. I opened the Corner Pub, on the other hand, because I thought we needed a touch of rural Michigan. Post in there and your poem will remain on the first page for hours, even days. You'll get fewer replies, of course, because there's fewer people. Advantages and disadvantages. Temptress, instead of discouraging people from posting, maybe we would all be better served by encouraging them to post more. The only real problem I see is that too many people seem to think of that first page of OP as some kind of Mecca, as the end-all and be-all of the forums. If your poem falls off that first page it is defined as buried? Because it takes a few more clicks to get to? Give me a break! If you want your poetry to be visible, do it by encouraging everyone to make those extra few clicks. Not by lessening the competition. Others complain because they can no longer read every poem that is posted, let alone respond to each one. So? When I walk into the bookstore it's not because I expect or even hope to walk out with every book on the shelf. My greatest single regret in life is that I'll never live long enough to read every book I'd like to read. But that certainly doesn't mean I expect the New York publishers to slow down to my pace. On the contrary, I welcome the plethora of choices I have. And in the end, that's exactly what it comes down to - choices. Michael is absolutely right about why many of the Members here make the choices they do. They can't read everything. So they first and inevitably read the works of those they call friend. I know there are a handful of people who spend a lot of time in the forums. But the proverbial average forum visitor reads less poetry per visit than does the average visitor to the main site. That rather suggests most people don't come here just to read poetry, but rather come to interact with other poets. (Further, it suggests a lot of people stop in just long enough to see if they have any responses, then immediately leave.) Maybe if your poem is being knocked off that Mecca called the first page by one of those "popular" Members, it's because that Member became popular as much by offering their support as by being good poets. Maybe, if someone isn't happy with the response their work is receiving, they should try to understand why. And, remember - those "popular" Members are facing the same competition as everyone else. There are never going to be any simple answers to a complaint that seems only slightly less regular than the phases of the moon. Yes, we could make more rules, make the boards more difficult to use, make the forums less popular - but at what cost? Advantages and disadvantages… |
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RainbowGirl Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023United Kingdom |
Heck...after two days away I'm confronted with so many posts I don't know where to start...I usually have my options to show 1 day of posts but just altered it to go back so I can see the last two days but I find that when I read one, I like to read the replies as well and that all takes time...I also try to vary where I start from, sometimes at the back, sometimes from the 'Today' posts sometimes I'll just go back to a random set of days but I never worry if I bring up and old one cause if I like it, I'll answer it and I don't get time to read them all like I used to...I don't even get chance to answer my mail in total either, often it's a compromise between, chat, mail and poems and answering posts like this... Did I just waffle?..*g* HUGS Don't ask me where I'm going, just listen when I'm gone and far away you'll hear me singing softly to the dawn. |
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Elizabeth Santos Member Rara Avis
since 1999-11-08
Posts 9269Pennsylvania |
I'm all for living in the city and spending weekends in the country, or vise versa, I just hadn't thought of it, my cursor clicks on #5 out of habit. Liz |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Temptress, I know this may sound personal and it's not but I don't know how to phrase it any other way. We have spoken several times on ICQ and I consider you a friend and a nice person. I do, however, find it curious that you would be the one bringing this subject up with such strong emotion. You have not been a very participating force here as you have, as MIchael also stated, on other poetry sites you frequent. 160 posts in seven months should not, I would think, give you cause to vent such strong feeling on this subject with proper authority. If you truly feel that more poems need more replies, or advice or help, I would ask then what is stopping you from doing so? Barely over a dozen replies to other poems per month does not, I feel, give you the proper credentials to lodge a complaint. If you would like to see changes, please lead by example, not by threatening to withdraw from something you have made little effort to participate in. I said it was hard to make this sound non-personal, even though it is, but I see a hornet's nest here being stirred up here causing solid participants like Elizabeth to talk about cutting back on posts....and it's being done by someone who seldom comes around and barely participates and, after all, this is the Alley..... |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Just a note for Elizabeth. There is absolutely no reason to curb your posting or your replies. When I first came to these forums, I would not reply at all on my own posts for fear I was being vain. That left a lot of people who praised or commented on my posts feeling like I was "vain". I was told by more than one person I should acknowledge people who comment on my work. There is nothing to feel guilty for in saying thank you or corresponding to others within your own threads. The only thing I would have to say there, (and this is not directed at you, Liz), is I wouldn't reply immediately to each and every reply you've recieved but wait to thank a number of repliers at the same time. Michael |
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Elizabeth Santos Member Rara Avis
since 1999-11-08
Posts 9269Pennsylvania |
Thanks Ron, Denise, Balladeer and Michael. I'm getting the feeling Pandora's trying to open the wrong box, and Denise, I will stop by the pub for that hearty brew one of these days. Liz |
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Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136Mobile, AL |
Let me say that I don't interact as much, haven't interacted as much, and don't have as many posted poetry here because I was discouraged by posting burial FROM EARLIER ON. Is it wrong now that I chose to be here anyway and try to make the best of it. I simply said that I was tired of being quiet about it. Do my number of posts dictate that I don't enjoy this forum? I think not. I enjoy it here, and ones posting number should not used as a judging tool for everyone else about the levl of persons caring or enjoyment here. Also, I don't think it is fair to compare my interaction in other forums. The poems I post there have mostly been the ones I post here also. There has also been a considerable amount of time where I posted here and not the other forums. Apologies that I cannot or do not produce mass amounts of poetry daily. I did not know my views would be counted as non valid because of my lack of a high number of poetry. The time I do have on here I do try to participate where I can. RON: I ask that you clarify your use of the word competition. I surely have misunderstood you. I take it as meaning we are in competition here more because of the larger number of people here, and not here to help one another as fairly as we can. I also am hurt by your sarcasm about freezing postings. I never said that ANYONE should stop posting. If my detection of sarcasm was incorrect then I am wrong. ***Note for everyone else on that: I have not and would not ask anyone to stop posting or even limit their posting to once a day. I just think there must be ground somewhere between reinforcement and allowance on multiple posting and such. As for bringing back buried post myself, I ask how to do that on the ones that have dissappered off the pages before I have had the chance to see them. While I'm here. Someone please do tell me what is the thought on posting a thank you after all the responses received on ones poetry. I have often thought to thank someone for replying to mine. Would it be better by e-mail to do so or by posting replies to replies beneath ones own poem? Realistically I didn't expect to be agreed with on this issue totally. I wanted thoughts and have gotten them so far. Although I believe everyone thinks I'm the enemy for posting this, I do appreciate the time everyone is taking. I understand that a few of you have tried not to make your responses personal, but this is all personal here because I consider you all my friends. I simply feel like I'm being counted out and counted as non valid because my name isn't splashed around here constantly, and believe it or not, that hurts deeply. I have tried to remain nuetral about some issues by keeping my "mouth" shut, and apparently being nuetral is not the way to go. Micheal: As for my other very vague Alley posting, I guess I should apologize for not clarifying what I was thinking in it. It was done out of temper and haste; and I should not have posted it until I was ready to explain myself. It was over a more personal issue. Though I'd like to discuss it with someone and give my thoughts on it, I suppose I didn't wish to drag anyone's name out publicly here anymore. Don't gain my affections and cover my eyes. In blindness I will only swing harder. |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
just a few notes Jen in trying to answer your questions. I'm sorry if this is brief, I have to run somewhere pretty quick. "Do my number of posts dictate that I don't enjoy this forum?" That's not what anyone here is trying to say Jen. What we are trying to say is generally the people getting the large amount of replies on their poems are the ones who reply to others more often. "As for bringing back buried post myself, I ask how to do that on the ones that have dissappered off the pages before I have had the chance to see them." There is an option in your preferances that will allow you to set the number of days previous for pages to be viewed. Starts at 1 day - goes all the way through 1 year I believe. Can also be done right from the forum without changing the default setting. "Someone please do tell me what is the thought on posting a thank you after all the responses received on ones poetry" Simply put, Courtesy. I alluded to this briefly in my note to Liz just above as well as email replies vs. in your post replies. "Realistically I didn't expect to be agreed with on this issue totally. I wanted thoughts and have gotten them so far. Although I believe everyone thinks I'm the enemy for posting this" The reason you might have been percieved as Hostile is the ALL CAPS TITLE appears to be yelling to many, as well as the "threat" of not posting here anymore comes off like a punishment - and specifically placed because of those who recieve large amounts of replies to their poems. "I simply feel like I'm being counted out and counted as non valid because my name isn't splashed around here constantly" If you were thought of a non-valid, this post would have been largely ignored, which hardly was the case. "Micheal: As for my other very vague Alley posting, I guess I should apologize for not clarifying what I was thinking in it. It was done out of temper and haste; and I should not have posted it until I was ready to explain myself. It was over a more personal issue. Though I'd like to discuss it with someone and give my thoughts on it, I suppose I didn't wish to drag anyone's name out publicly here anymore" Jen, I can surely apreciate not wanting to drag someone's name out into public. As a friend and a moderator, I would encourage you to email me or one of the other moderators if there's an issue that needs attention, that is what we are here for. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-17-2000).] |
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Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136Mobile, AL |
Here is a clarification for safety. Above I didn't mean to say that "EVERYONE" was reacting in such a way that hurts. It isn't everyone of course, so I'm not accusing every person who has replied to this of being hurtful. Also, the description of my decision to pause posting on here as a "TACTIC" does not put forth the correct picture. I am not at war with anyone nor am I in competition with this post, therefore, I am not using a TACTIC. Don't gain my affections and cover my eyes. In blindness I will only swing harder. |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
It is merely my opinion that the threat of not posting again is a tactical ploy for attention and at the same time a demand for "instant" resolve, just as in my opinion the title "MY FINAL WORD..." is tactic, also as well as the all caps "THIS ISSUE MUST BE ADDRESSED" within the original post itself. Tactic: Any skillfull management for attaining a desired result. In any case, reflecting on my usage of the word tactic seems to only draw minds away from the intent of your post. I don't know why we are discussing it, truly. I see not where this is gonna benefit your complaint at all. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-17-2000).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I ask that you clarify your use of the word competition. People are in competition only if they wish to be. If someone wants their poems to remain at the top of the first page and garner lots of responses, then yea, they're going to be in competition with everyone else who has similar desires. If someone is here to truly share and help others, it won't matter how many responses they get - and there's no competition. Realistically, I suspect most of us fall somewhere between those two extremes. We sincerely hope our work will receive the attention we think it deserves, but also recognize that with several hundred new poems a day not all of them can be on page one. I also am hurt by your sarcasm about freezing postings. I never said that ANYONE should stop posting. No, you certainly didn't. Nor was the sarcasm directed at you, Jennifer. In truth, I never really expected to ever reply to this topic (having made my thoughts clear numerous times in the past six months), but was absolutely appalled to read Elizabeth's response. That a fine poet and courteous individual like she would even consider limiting her posts and resorting to email was alarming. The sarcasm was meant to indicate I would consider such a solution far worse than the problem. Apologies that I cannot or do not produce mass amounts of poetry daily. I think Michael answered this satisfactorily, but let me add just a bit. If you look over to the left, under my name, you'll see what many around here would consider a fairly low number of posts. And I've been here a while, too! Not coincidentally, on those rare occasions when I post a poem, most of the responses I get are from people I've interacted with behind the scenes, since I get so little opportunity to respond to the work of others in the forums. Shoot, I suspect a lot of the newer members don't know me from Adam, and I'm not at all surprised when they don't comment on one of my posts. I'm just another name to them, and even my good poetry (I think I have one or two) is just a drop in a moderately large ocean of equally good poetry.Someone please do tell me what is the thought on posting a thank you after all the responses received on ones poetry. Michael inferred it, but I'll say it bluntly: Responding to responses is both courteous and more than valid. We've used the word "interactive" in this thread a lot. To my mind, that means a dialog as opposed to a monologue. We don't get up on a stage and wait for applause, like an entertainer (that's more like the main site, I think). If we're on stage here at all it's only for a few brief moments, then we return to our seats in the audience and let someone else take center stage. Those that pat us on the back as we return to our seats deserve a smile and a thank you, just as that fellow you pass as he heads toward the stage you just vacated deserves a nod of encouragement. Give and take. Back and forth. A dialog. |
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RainbowGirl Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023United Kingdom |
Now I think we're headed somewhere valid but that's only my own thoughts and I need to get something written and posted whilst it's in my mind...so I'll come back to this in a few a little while....but,I'll say this for starters, numbers are not indictative of caring, only time or lack of, unless the author deems otherwise and I wish to heck I had more time..LOL I'll be back cause I love a debate and this looks like a great one..  )HUGS Don't ask me where I'm going, just listen when I'm gone and far away you'll hear me singing softly to the dawn. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Better late than never is what my mama always used to say. I've read with interest all the posts in this thread and now will add my 5 cents (inflation from 2 cents). I will use myself as an example so I don't offend anyone or so it doesn't sound like I'm pointing fingers!!! Sharon, tell me, why do you post on the Passions Forums? Answer To be honest, at first it was to get affirmation that I do have some modicum of talent..for years I wasn't sure. But since joining this wonderful group, I've written more and been challenged to write better than any time in my life. Sharon, how do you feel when you see your poem sliding off the first page? Answer (giggling) I don't mind! Because I know it's there somewhere! I set my browser for 20 days! I can go back and find anything I want..or I can do a search if I can't find my poem...besides...I read more than I write anyway! Sharon, do you think multiple posts are a problem? Answer Sometimes..but it's usually a new member and then I reply to only one poem and let the others 'fall where they may'. Sharon, isn't this a little drastic? You could miss a good poem! Answer I'm on enough that if I see a poem I didn't reply to (you can tell by the color of the title) I will then read it. Usually the second week a member is here, they have posted all their archived poetry and are posting fewer poems. Sharon, have you ever posted more than one poem on the forums at a time. Answer (blushing!) I was in a writer's block a couple of months ago..one night, I came out of it with a bang! I posted 4 or 5 poems..not all in the same forum and not within minutes of each other. I felt so bad about that, but it just felt so good to be able to write again! Sharon, what do you think of all this fuss about posts and replies? Answer To be honest, I'm confused! A forum is a living document..constantly moving, growing, changing. I submit poetry to the main site because I know it will always be there. I post in the forums for quick, on the spot reaction. Passions growth will continue to bring more and more poets here..I've encouraged many from other sites, other places to join us. Of course that means my poetry is a drop in this big Passions bucket..but you know what? I love this place! We are a family! We are here to encourage and support each other. If someone is upset because they don't see their poem on the first page of the forum, submit it to the main site..it will be there forever! Sharon, you're getting a little misty-eyed there..are you ok... Answer Aw, I just want us to get along..who cares how many posts one poet has.. who cares how many replies..who cares what page it's on..I just thank God I have some talent and have found a place to share the talent of others and let them share in mine. I will now step down and remove myself from the Alley (is that a cat over there?) Thanks for reading! |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Ok...I have come back to this because I have been speaking with Tempress via ICQ. She is still upset with some of the replies she has received with this post. I have to agree with Ron completely. From the time I first found this board and even received a reply I was amazed. I read and I replied to others works and I made some wonderful friends. I posted some more and suddenly I found I had a following. I was simply amazed and terribly flattered. Yes I post infrequently in open but my faithful friends look me up when ever I post a piece. If their is someone I want to see it and they miss it I icq or e-mail the link to them. It is as simple as that. I remember my poems fading into the resesses with nary 2 replies but then I had not met and got to know people. It was not the number of replies I received that kept me here and had me ask how I could help with this board. It was the people that make up the family we call Passions. (Denise..I have to thankyou for that prose comment. I know you have read and replied to my work there. You were my first fan...lol ((HUG)). Just one comment on the hurt feelings. I would like to know how sarcasm is brought across in typing? This is not a flipant question...if anyone knows please tell me. Sarcasm is an art using words that say onething but with a tone and body language infer another. It is truely an art for it to be carried off properly. When we type we use words, there is no inflection of the voice, so how do we take straighht forward statements to be something other then what they are? Unless we have a relationship with the person we are speaking with on line, we can not assume to know that they mean something other then what they are saying. (oy! I have talked myself in a circle and I am dizzy...lol) Too many misunderstands happen in an online situation because we read more into a statement then is really there. I think we need to ask for clarification of things before we allow ourselves to be hurt by simple words on a page. This is directed at all the members of Passions and any other on line community. I think I am done...I hope this made some sense. If not write it off as the ramblings of a mad woman...lol |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
First off - Temptress - I don't think anyone is of the opinion that you are an 'enemy' - you're just venting views - perfectly acceptable! It is the alley! So, have a hug - (and come join on my group hug if you want) Second - Elizabeth - you start posting and replying less and I WILL get out on a plane and FORCE you to stay just as you are - a loving, stable member of our family. OK? It is a dilemna I think that has no real answer. Just education - and truly, the posts won't stay there long - they all sink. I guess it just requires determination to keep on clicking past page 1. That's it from me... K |
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Saxoness
since 1999-07-18
Posts 1102Texas |
Ok...here is my take on it...nothing new and exciting, but I can't ever seem to keep my mouth shut. I've been around here for along time. I try to reply more than I post...but as you can see by my numbers...I don't do either very often. It's mostly just because I don't get inspired to write something good but a few times a month. If a poem or story doesn't meet my personal standards...I don't post it. Because of this, i'm really not very well known in places like open poetry, (or any other forums for the matter) but thats just common sense. When I do post, the people who respond to it are my friends. I know it's not because people don't like me...they just don't know me. The are going to respond to their friends before they respond to me. It's a family here...family and friends...no spite or malice is "usually" intended. So if you excuse me...i'm going to go join in a hug! "Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me." -Charles Brugnot |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Geesh.... Take a day off to play with my munchkins, and look at what happens... Michael and Balladeer, I'm glad to see you were covering the place yesterday... Ron - It seems to me that spending time in both atmospheres is the best way to keep an appreciation for both within your heart - Snowbirding, as we say... Elizabeth and Sharon - You're both under house arrest... Elizabeth, that's the only way to be sure we don't miss ANY of your great poetry.... and Sharon, you're talking to yourself now... I know you've been avoiding the 'stute - But we may have to reconsider after this......  If you'll all excuse me now, I have to go read several hundred poems that are on about page 5 by this point.......  |
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Munda Member Elite
since 1999-10-08
Posts 3544The Hague, The Netherlands |
First of all I'd like you to know I do NOT think you're the enemy. : ) I think I know how you feel. I don't spend much time at open myself anymore because of the overwhelming amount of poetry there. However, when I do spend some time on open # 5, I mostly go to page 10 - 15 and reply to some of the poetry (with few replies) of which I think should be read a little more. And you know what ?? Most of the time these poems do get more replies. : ) So it seems to work : ) Just take a deep breath and smile girl....as passion is growing and growing and growing... ...and, even with all these multiple postings, we will soon not be able to read everything anymore. |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
STOP IT! PEACE!!Listen, Jenn, you are a fine writer. Just keep writing and posting and being the kind, caring individual you are. Don't be so concerned about the quantity of replies, but moreso enjoy the quality of the replies which show that those who read your poem "got it" and saw the world, if for only a moment, through your eyes. There are many here who appreciate your writing- you are one of the few free verse poets who brings sensuality to the pen and who writes about intimacy and the darker side of relationships. My poems OFTEN get bumped off the first and second pages within a very short period of time. Sometimes, I go find them myself and bump them back up so they can be seen. Yep... I am guilty of that... I thank the people who commented and at the same time kick the poem back up top... 2 birds with one stone... geesh... no remorse, though. It is the nature of this software. Poems appear in chronological order in regards to the last comment, not the last original post. It's actually one of the aspects of this software that took me the longest to get used to, since I was accustomed to posting on bulletin boards where original posts remained chronological.Oh well. It is the nature of the beast.Being on the top somewhere should not be the goal. Writing good poetry should be the goal. This shouldn't be a "popularity contest". This, however, is a microcosm of the real world and people LOVE attention, popularity and fame. Ron's illustration using city vs. country as a simile was excellent, btw. Anyway, the only other thing I have to say is that poetpeople are artists who are often overly sensitive (I am included). We all want the attention of an appreciative audience but it just confuses the purpose of our writing when we focus on the audience instead of the verse. I know that happens to me on occasion. I think that when we find ourselves becoming sensitive about the number of replies we are getting, we should take 10 deep breaths and then relax and forget it. (Oh, first go bump it up to the top one more time... LOL) And then.... write a poem about it. If we writers wrote a poem EVERY time we felt slighted, ignored, shown lack of respect, avoided, or WHATEVER negative emotion.... damn... we'd sure have written a lot of poem! I think that's why God gave the artists extraordinary sensitivity... so we could relay those human feelings to others in a way that nobody else has. Your talent as a writer is truly a gift from God. When the negative emotions raise their evil heads, that's when your writing can be the most inspired. Btw, I'm not interested in "fame"... only fortune (hehe.. just kidding...) Whew! I was just going to say a couple words... got to rambling! Geesh! sorry. Take care, Jenn.  dp |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Ron, You are most wise! |
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Paul Hoekman Member
since 1999-12-28
Posts 382Harwinton Ct. U>S>A> |
Hello Everyone, I don't really have much to say, but have just read this whole thing and just want well I guess Ron especially to read that this place is extraordinarily unique as you well know.I have never in my life had an experience such as this forum. And for myself it seems to me that the Spirituality that runs so strong throughout the whole place keeps it running in my eyes smooth considering all and everyone involved and will continue to do so. Ron as you know all the Moderators here are absolutely wonderful. As the Captain I'm sure you are very proud and confident as i am in your crew(I see no icebergs). I did question early on where the poems went and then felt very silly when I realized that they are all there pages and pages. I think different people get different things and look for different things out of this forum, some want replys some just want to post some are here to enjoy the social life but we are all here to grow. And I know most of us are Christians aand therefore in the end no matter what ups and downs go on we are sure to end up in Peace and Harmony and if Elizabeth ever leaves (not that I'm anything special) I will blow this alley wide open! LET THE PEACE WHICH PASSES ALL UNDERSTANDING KEEP YOUR HEARTS AND MINDS IN CHRIST JESUS AMEN! |
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Dr.Moose1 Member Elite
since 1999-09-05
Posts 3448Bewilderment , USA |
Well, this certainly is a crowded spot in the alley.I've just finished reading the entire thread and maybe I've missed something yet...I came here to write , laugh , share , well you get the picture. As for seeking validation , I can pretty much take it or leave it .If I were judged by the number of replies I post , they would throw me bodily from this place . Yes I am guilty . But I enjoy being here , and if no-one replied to my postings I would just have to assume they had no literary taste what-so -ever .Ha! I wasn't aware this was such a serious place , maybe that's what I was missing . Doc |
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White Wolf Member
since 1999-09-18
Posts 371Somewhere in the vast wasteland |
I have a thought on this. Open Poetry forum seems to be a catch all for poetry that doesn't quite fit into any of the other forums and it is also the place to post your poetry so that it will get noticed. I know that there are alot of poeple in OP. But I do have a thought that maybe I will post in another forum as a new subject. A forum for all of the new talent that are becoming part of this family. Anyway Peace has always been the better part of war(and what that comment has to do with the price of tea in China, I don't really know). Peace to all and keep writing. I know I will. "Life's greatest mystery isn't the meaning of life. To love and be loved is the meaning of life. Now how to attain those is the greatest mystery of all." |
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QjQ Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756U.S.A. |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
One ppossible solution to this is to open the forums with Todays Topics, instead of opening each topic in turn... By doing it this way, I am able to see any of the posts that were done for that day, and not have to spend time worrying about missing one that got pushed to the next page. Either way, I do not get many replies for most of my postings, and it doesn'tr bother me at all... Are we doing this because we are so insecure that we need that constant reassurance, or are we doing it to share our love of words and writing? Anyways... just my thoughts. We are all equal but we’re individually different |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
There are many aches and confusions in life, especially in this day of excesses and wicked haste , so people will tend more go to what pleases and comforts most for simple relief. And what suggests a pleasing and comfort will naturally attract more often people than what is very unknown, very artfully manifold and difficult to understand. It is similar here in some ways, I believe. There is nothing wrong with ingracing oneself to a crowd by proffering what pleases because people prefer pleasure best. Who get all the numbers are those that give pleasure, but I do not think they have a set mind for numbers or for a or make this as an intellectual equation-- it is their pleasure as well, so they do as they as they will. If you don't give what you know will earn and gain its attention best don't expect the same response from the crowd. It is a very challenge if you will gain their attention otherways. And it may take much more time. You have to take the needful time either way. That is just my saying, however well or ill. [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-01-2003 02:38 PM).] |
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Paula Finn Member Ascendant
since 2000-06-17
Posts 5546missouri |
Ok...Jen I know exactly how you feel...because of school I get here so seldom and for such short periods of time that I don't get to read as much as I used to...because of that replies to the poetry I do write is pretty well limited to poets who have known me a long time...I try to read at least one new name everytime I get here but thats not always possible. It can be so frustrating to see something you have written, something thats just been torn out of you slip down the page...and to see someone elses poem keep getting bumped...not neccesarily because its GOOD poem, but just because of the author...but hey so what! I read names I know before I read others. And it is frustrating to open this site and see the same name five six seven times on the first page, with very few replies so you know its because of multiple postings...that pushes EVERYONES poem down down down. Its all really a matter of courtesy...and hey...those are the poems I DON"T read. |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
I love QJQ's interest in these issues....I think it is so cool that wants to learn. I'm wondering if I am selfish because this doesn't bother me anymore. there are a few people here that bother me because they post constantly and get very few..even no responses and don't care. If my poem falls on the second page...well I usualy start hating it by the time it does that anyways. and I try to bump only poems that I think are good. replying to everything is unfair if it doesn't touch you in any way. and as for the numbers thing... eh...who cares? I know people who have been here two months and get twich the replys that many do. It is because they are good...not because they are selfish. excuse me...I am getting off topic. And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots!" -Tool [This message has been edited by Wind (10-03-2003 04:27 PM).] |
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