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Chicken Hawks?
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Chicken Hawks? |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia 
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Republican Service Records: Spencer Abraham: Did not serve Eliot Abrams: Did not serve John Ashcroft: Did not serve Roy Blunt: Did not serve Michael Bloomberg: Did not serve Jeb Bush: Did not serve Saxby Chambliss: Did not serve. Attacked Max Cleland's patriotism Dick Cheney: Did not serve Christopher Cox: Did not serve Tom DeLay: Did not serve John Engler: Did not serve Douglas Feith: Did not serve Bill Frist: Did not serve Newt Gingrich: Did not serve Rudy Giuliani: Did not serve Phil Gramm: Did not serve Dennis Hastert: Did not serve Tim Hutchison: Did not serve Jack Kemp: Did not serve. "Knee problem," but continued in NFL for 8 years Jon Kyl: Did not serve Trent Lott: Did not serve Mitch McConnell: Did not serve John McHugh: Did not serve George Pataki: Did not serve Richard Perle: Did not serve Dana Rohrabacher: Did not serve Karl Rove: Did not serve Rick Santorum: Did not serve Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base Richard Shelby: Did not serve JC Watts: Did not serve Vin Weber: Did not serve Paul Wolfowitz: Did not serve Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor Tom Ridge: Army in Vietnam, Bronze star Colin Powell: 35 years in Army, 4-star general John McCain: POW in Vietnam, Legion of Merit, Silver star, DFC, many more Richard Lugar: Intelligence officer in Navy 1957-60 Chuck Hagel: Served in Vietnam, two Bronze stars and purple heart Bob Dornan: Enlisted after fighting was over in Korea Ronald Reagan: Served in WWII making movies Gerald Ford: Lt. Commander, Navy in WWII Richard Armitage: Navy, three tours in Vietnam George H.W. Bush: Youngest Navy pilot in WW II; awarded DFC George W. Bush: Texas Air Nat. Guard; didn't take physical; suspended from flying Bob Dole: Army in WWII, Bronze star, two purple hearts Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard Democrat Service Records: Bill Clinton: Did not serve John Edwards: Did not serve Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72 Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, etc Jimmy Carter: Lt. Commander in the Navy 1946-53 Wesley Clark: Army 1966-2000, Vietnam, Silver star, purple heart Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver/Bronze stars, Vietnam Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72 Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze star Michael Dukakis: Army 1955-57 Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71 John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs; Air Medal w/18 Clusters Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam as journalist Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74 Howell Heflin: Silver star Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze star Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53 Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver/Bronze stars, purple hearts Jim McDermott: Navy 1968-70 George McGovern: Silver star & DFC during WWII Zell Miller: Marine Corps, 1953-56 Walter Mondale: Army 1951-53 Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver star, etc Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze star, Korea Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-79; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 Chuck Robb: U.S. Marine Corps, 1961-70, Vietnam Pete stark: Air Force 1955-57 Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart Pundits and Lobby Leaders Bill Bennett: Did not serve Wolf Blitzer: Did not serve Pat Buchanan: Did not serve Charlie Daniels: Did not serve Lou Dobbs: Did not serve Paul Gigot: Did not serve Sean Hannity: Did not serve Bill Kristol: Did not serve Rush Limbaugh: Did not serve Chris Matthews: Did not serve Michael Medved: Did not serve Ted Nugent: Did not serve Bill O'Reilly: Did not serve Ralph Reed: Did not serve Michael Savage: Did not serve Kenneth Starr: Did not serve George Will: Did not serve Jim Lehrer: U.S. Marine Corps William Buckley: Army in WWII Dan Rather: Army Reserve |
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Mysteria 
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Wow I am truly shocked! I sent this around to friends in Canada to see, and am going to check into our record up here. I guess it's one thing to talk the talk isn't it? Just Wow! I wonder if Barack Obama served? He is about my favorite senator of yours down there. I actually believe this to be a good man in office. Strange, I was thinking, Canadians actually know more about your politics than our own. If you know the answer to that question Reb can you let me know? I can't find the answer on the net yet, thanks. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
interesting links too: http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NE WS%3B%20Chickenhawks http://www.snopes.com/military/limbaugh.htm Google Link [This message has been edited by Ron (08-21-2005 01:44 PM).] |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I don't know that much about Obama but his bio doesn't mention any military service... http://obama.senate.gov/about/ |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Look, I hope the purpose of this thread is not to start a contest over who's more patriotic than the other. In being fair, I can say I will not serve under the military, with Peace Corps being the only thing I may consider, and my refusal has nothing to do with the troops, who have always done a great honor in serving this country, but the politicians who force them into dangerous wrongful policies. I hope the point in pointing this out, Local Rebel, is to show the hypocrisy in how time and time and time again, this particular Ann Coulter-Move America Forward-Fox News right (and again not referring to the right in entirety because there are many whose views lean right that don't impugn others honor and dissent) attacks liberals and progressives, calling them traitors and terrorist sympathizers and non-troop supporters, yet many of these personalities who keep smearing the patriotic spirit of the left, including those who have served, never served themselves yet make such audacious accusations. You don't have to serve in the military to be patriotic. You can serve your country being a teacher, a nurse, a fireman, a great American novelist, etc. Millions of wonderful Americans have been made through many professions here. Just because I potently disagree with the policies of this administration doesn't make it so I will impugn their patriotism. I believe Bush and his officials love America just as much as the next person on the other side of the spectrum. We just have disagreements in how America must mature. The bottom line is, I am just saddened in my heart that all this talk of people like myself being a traitor, non-patriotic, unAmerican, sleeping with the enemy is rampant, for it couldn't be further from the truth. I, Noah Eaton, am proud to be an American, and proud to be serving this land of the free as a good son, a friend, a poet, a thinker, a musician, a news teamsman, a neighbor, a happy spirit, and eventually dream to serve America as a father, a grandfather, etc. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" Mother Teresa |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Noah, I think your point is well taken. In stating I was shocked at who served and who didn't I should explain my thoughts. Up here in Canada we don't "have to serve" at all, so far it's a choice, but who knows? In the USA, as I understand it, the draft decides who stays home and who doesn't I believe doesn't it? I find the statistics amazing that regardless of what party these men/women were in, that they missed that draft  Heck, even Elvis went!I do agree with you however on the note that you can serve your country in many ways rather than being in the military, and it doesn't make you less patriotic to stay home. However, I will forever be grateful and thank God for the men that do chose to go fight for their country to save the rest that don't choose to fight. Freedom of choice, as well as that freedom of speech Noah. By the way, what is so incredible about the United States of America to me is the strong sense of "country" that as a Canadian I sometimes feel we truly lack. It may take a serious war or threat to bring it out of us I suppose, heaven forbid, but I am sure if that time came we would also be faced with a draft. Now I am no scholar, so don't go dragging me over your coals in here, just my own opinion on this. By the way - I happen to think that Senator from Illinois is definitely going to go places in your government, and I hope to live to see it, I really like him and with more experience I hope he does well. Exiting now from my Sunday ramble.  |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Sharon, I imagine a draft in the immediate future is unlikely and would be a colossal mistake to our democracy if it did happen, but if it did, I would refuse and demand to be sent to jail instead, and the reason is simple; I can rest assured at least I still hold that innocence true in my heart, that though prison is the next ugliest place, at least I won't have to hear the sounds of people crying and screaming in anguish, people dying, simple as that, for a jail is a silent prison, but a war is a loud, kinetic, animated prison. Yes, I do see a great future in Barack Obama. I am thrilled that he has become a Democratic senator. He is one of my favorite Democrats, and his speeches are just brilliant, they're filled with the old school spirit of the ideals we have stood for for generations. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Well Noah -- the title of this thread isn't Chicken Hawks -- it's Chicken Hawks? this is what I said in another thread; quote: I agree it's disgraceful, along with John McCain, how the right continues to try to swift-boat people (that's actually become a verb now). But I'm providing data here. Lincoln and FDR had no military service records -- the Constitution has designed a civil government... It's intersting how the facts play out though -- those with the most military experience have been ignored by this administration. From Powell to Shinseke on down. I have a feeling that Cat might have some interesting data to provide also regarding the term 'Chicken Hawk'. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenhawk_(politics) Look under Origin. |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Looks like we are all researching, I found this link quite interesting! http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Yes, and I also eloquently stated in the Sheehan thread that I currently declare myself not a Democrat in consequence of the party failing to recognize the large audience who desire a change of pace in Iraq, which experience on the field indeed also seems to play a great motivational tool in understanding, etc. Indeed I think I can see the significance behind that question mark in the title, that though many of these personalities may be what are often termed as "chickenhawks", it's actually the Democrats in particular who are failing to find the courage to say that experience, in seeing it all with your own eyes and living and breathing like the soldier him/herself, is crucial in understanding how foreign policy works, and that these "chickenhawks" are actually the ones who are making the ongoing offense maneuver politically and making them look like the cowards, which they've had massive success doing. That's one huge reason why I refuse to call myself a Democrat right now. They just won't stand up for the wills of many of the 49% who came out to vote for Kerry last November. They may know very well they're right, but they're not proving it, they're not showing it. They're the ones who are chickening out right now, and between voting for who's a chicken and who's reckless, I'd edge for the chicken, but it saddens me deeply that we just can't find the air in our lungs to ask for more choices, a deeper selection. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" |
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littlewing Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655New York |
Colin Powell: 35 years in Army, 4-star general Would have voted for him in a heartbeat. too bad, eh? I exit, before my foot goes in my mouth. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Certainly too bad that his career ended as it did. We can merely hope that he'll stay engaged in some fashion. We need good men and women from whatever stripe. The problem that I see with Hilary is that she's the same as Bush -- she sees everything in black and white too -- it's dangerous coming from either side of the aisle. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
an interesting list, Reb and of course, I'm wondering what a chickenhawks ~ nimby's list might look like? not in my family (but it's ok if your loved one dies) not in my yard (but yours looks like a good dumping ground) anyway, I appreciate the time you took putting this together now I can repair my dartboard |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
You're exactly right, LR, that's how I perceive Hilary at this time. Of course her husband was also that way, though indeed he was more internationalist than this administration has been. To me, it seems Chuck Hagel seems to have more of the right idea in where we ought to be going than most Democrats looking to be likelihoods for a 2008 run. Of course he is a minority voice within the GOP, and I don't think the party wants to move in that particular direction. Plus that many can't shake the Diebold thing off. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I'm interested that you would say Bill saw things in black and white. His critics, as most critics of liberalism would say, said that his problem was the exact opposite - that he saw infinite shades of gray where things were black and white.. He was a liberal but gave us welfare reform, don't ask don't tell, defense of marriage act, a balanced budget, a unilateral war in the Balkans... and confusion of what 'is' is. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
What makes anyone think military service qualifies someone for political office? Do I really want to risk a Caesar or General Hotspur as supreme commander? |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
No, but you might want a Washington, Grant, or Ike.. The point of this exercise is to point out the fallacy of both the constant swift-boating on the right and the chicken hawking on the left. Hypocracy is not a stranger to ideology. |
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