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Irony?
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Irony? |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA 
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UN on Holocaust: Evil Wins When the Good Are Quiet Monday, January 24, 2005 11:30 a.m. ET UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Those who incite hatred and mass murder are not always extremists but men of culture, Secretary-General Kofi Annan told world leaders in opening the first-ever General Assembly commemoration of the World War II Holocaust. The session began with a minute of silent prayer. "How could such evil happen in a cultured and highly sophisticated nation-state in the heart of Europe whose artists and thinkers had given the world so much," Annan asked. "Truly is has been said: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." Somehow I find this rather ironic....maybe it's just me. |
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| © Copyright 2005 Michael Mack - All Rights Reserved | |||
Mistletoe Angel 
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
How so? I think you may be on something here but am curious what you mean Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
He thinks its ironic, because of how corrupt the un is. -Juju Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Well, that's his opinion, and I understand he has a biased grudge toward Kofi Annan like he perceives I do toward George W. Bush. But, again, that is an opinion. I mentioned before in the "Wake Up And Smell The Kofi" thread how I believe the U.N has helped the world historically and indeed has had its achievements, even when I may not agree with everything Kofi has done. So it's sort of a unilateral irony I suppose, but not all-encompassing. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you But if the bright lights don't receive you You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20 |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Mike, It shouldn’t be surprising that the UN, like the League of Nations, proves impotent in similar situations. As an aside, I’ve noticed that there is a sudden surge of Holocaust related events, and I know it’s the sixtieth anniversary, but what is so remarkable about the sixtieth anniversary? There was a term used in a program asking a similar question; “Holocaust fatigue.” I wonder as to the motivation. Is it, at least in part, an attempt to refresh a sense of guilt and thereby the power to cow reservation or opposition? After all, it did end by the spilling of a great deal of blood from men whose countries could just as easily have continued to appease, ignore, or simply not really care. How much more and for how long should the world be held responsible for something much of it was not even born to take part in? |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
I understand he has a biased grudge toward Kofi Annan like he perceives I do toward George W. Bush. First, Noah, my bias isn't against Kofi Annan but the entire U.N. Second it is not my "perception" of your grudge against Bush, it is your comment of hatred against him. But that's all beside the point. What I mean by irony is that there is a long list of evil regimes present during the UN's tenure, from Yugoslavia to the Sudan ot a number of others which can easily be listed. These regimes participated in mass murder, atrocities, causation of starvation of millions....and the UN did absolutely nothing. This body of the greatest countries and powers on Earth did absolutely nothing to cause the cessation of such actions by evil dictators and warlords. For the head of the UN to come out with the above statement while leading an organization that is a prime example of the entity the comment portrays is indeed ironic. He is leading an organization of "good men" who have done nothing to stop the atrocities and has therefore permitted evil to thrive, based on his own comment. I got know what the word for cojones is in his native language but Kofi has a set of big ones...He should be embarrassed to make such a statement... |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Some things I don't think we can afford to forget, John. We should remember, at least until we learn from it, which I don't think much of the world has yet. Ironic indeed, Michael. And he is probably so self-deluded that he can't even see the hypocrisy, so I don't think he'll ever feel embarrassed. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
"We rightly say, 'Never again'. But action is much harder," he told the UN. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4202689.stm It has been said that Israel is the nation the United Nations loves to hate. Which means it wouldn't lift a finger. ‘But Mr Annan admitted that taking action against genocide was much more difficult than repeating rhetoric. "The world has, to its shame, failed more than once to prevent or halt genocide - for instance in Cambodia, in Rwanda, and in the former Yugoslavia," he said.’ Note, the world, not the UN. (Denise: “Cambodia, in Rwanda, and in the former Yugoslavia” show how much remembering has done). Which means either everyone remains still pretty much on their own, or something other than the UN has to step in… |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Ironic? I think I would say it is simply lacking credibility. The triumph of evil implies that evil is self-aware, and that just isn't the way the world works. Evil is something you point at, across the room or across the ocean, always an external something and never an internal one. Even the most deranged sociopath justifies his actions as necessary, as expedient, as steps to a greater good for self or others. When evil looks in the mirror, it sees only good. All that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men remain convinced they alone know what is right to do. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
People are sometimes slow learners, it seems, John. |
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wandering glider Senior Member
since 2001-04-04
Posts 501aloft |
Easy to blame the UN for not doing something. Having made that accusation, what power(s) would you give the UN to carry out these undone actions? Curious how the same folks who hate the UN for being in existence lambast it for not doing something but wouldn't give it the power to blow it's nose. That's irony. glider |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
So I was a little wrong. lIFE SUCKES LIKE THAT. Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Ron, “Even the most deranged sociopath justifies his actions as necessary, as expedient, as steps to a greater good for self or others. When evil looks in the mirror, it sees only good. All that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men remain convinced they alone know what is right to do.” So there is no good that can be relied on to act rightly, hence inaction is the best action, and action can be indicative of evil. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
There are no powers that the nations of the world will give it, except to complain. The UN in Korea happened only because Stalin’s USSR was absent being in protest, and Mao’s China was not seated. It has been and remains impotent and will continue to be so. It only thing it can do is add to global warming. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
When evil looks in the mirror, it sees only good. Ron, that is one great line...and very accurate. Everyone from Attila to Hitler to Capone felt they were good men and their actions were justifiable. I can buy "lacking credibility". too. Your last line, however, I would have to take issue with. glider, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. What powers would I give to the UN? They are a combination of the strongest, richest, most-developed countries in the world. They have all the power they need. They can create economic, political or military pressure on any tyrannical goverment in existence. They have the power to do good. They don't need permission.They only need the desire and conviction to do it. |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
I disagree. There is a difference between a good man and a bad man. Bad men set out to distroy and ruin. They spread hate amoung people, instead of love. Good men stand up for the weak- whether they like them or not- Just because they respect and love. Good man don't have to prove thier good and do things unnoticed. Then there is the ones in between like me who try real hard, but always feal like they are failing and the ones who don't care. -I have more, but My homework break is over. Juju Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Firstly, I hope you can understand the United Nations, alone, cannot single-handedly stamp out the mass murder crimes of the world. Israel's foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, said today "The brutal extermination of a people began not with guns or tanks but with words systematically portraying the Jews and others as not legitimate, something less than human." I absolutely agree with Elie Wiesel when he said, "If the world had listened we may have prevented Darfur, Cambodia, Bosnia and naturally Rwanda," (sad sigh) Elie Wiesel is a Jew, he has been through it all, he has lived the traumatic experiences, which he has written so eloquently in "Night" (one of my personal recommendations). He has devoted his life to Israeli rights, among working for many other people of the world, has his own foundation (The Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity, and has been a fine American citizen for over four decades now. Those like Wiesel, and Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, who all spoke before the General Assembly, speak with true essence. This whole assembly began when our nation's ambassador John Danforth requested it and as many as 138 of 191 member states agreed to the proposal. So I think this has served as a great way in recognizing how the world body and the people of the world at large can work to see to it, if only we can open our arms and listen now, it won't be too late, for the sake of our children and grandchildren, to live in a world free of widespread tragedy. In the end, Sir Brian Urquhart, who is both a retired UN undersecretary and a soldier who had freed from the death camps of that era, I believe summarized it perfectly: "This commemoration serves to recall what human beings driven by hatred or fear or some perverse ideology are, against all rational belief, still capable of doing to each other," The United Nations was founded in response to the horrors of the death camps and Auschwitz. And to this day, unfortunately, more wars and massacres have erupted, but all in all I give the United Nations much credit for building communities and diplomatically analyzing conflicts and working on long-term solutions and plans for improving the world with short-term focus. Now, like any major organization, I believe in the organization's six-decade run now, there are indeed times where I believe the UN could have done more. Israel and Palestine in particular, along with Kashmir and Sudan. But all in all, I believe the success stories are there, in which the UN is most credited for. The independence of Indonesia. Namibia. Cyprus. The Dominican Republic. They encouraged international pressure on East Timor and it finally became independent three years ago after decades of strife and human rights violations. And other accomplishments as well. I hope now we can take these concerns to heart and see to it we as a world community can summon the will to give back to our communities and make amends so the children of tomorrow can later learn to recognize we stood and listened together at one point. At this point, it would just sound too easy to blame the United Nations, and in the end, I believe blame here is meaningless. After all, virtually the whole world over believes in the United Nations, not to mention much of the world's leaders unanimously came to the defense of Kofi Annan in light of a scandal of sorts regarding the oil-for-food program, including all of Africa's 54 nations. From now, we should just move forward, acknowledge the tragedies of our times, and the important thing now is not to take yesterday's hatchet and try to analyze the fingerprints on it, but look from the present to the hope of tomorrow and all find the time and place to be involved together and so should the hatchet be dug up again, we can all shout, therefore we all can listen. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Reminds me of thowing star fish back into the sea. Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
 Hey, that's a great analogy, Juju! Ever since I was a little boy, I have always loved starfish, and always dreamed to find one that I can keep as a souvenir! But I also have always felt sensitive about nature, too, and if a starfish was washed up on the beach but was still soft or moist, it was still alive, thus I would feel awful taking one like that home because it would be slowly dying and I'd be responsible for it. I found a purple starfish at Seal Rock on the Oregon coast when staying at a beachhouse down in Waldport the week before Christmas. It was soft, washed up on the sand, and I believed it was still living and I believed the right thing to do was set it gently on a rock where the water could kiss it and let it free!  Thanks for bringing back the wonderful memory, dearest friend! Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Noah, I was reffering to a well known story with a a moral lesson. -JUju Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
I think I'd probably be unfamiliar with the story. Can you please share it? Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
A snow bird sat at his condo by the shore every morning at 9:00 and noticed that a little boy was fastly throwing things in to the ocean. One day the man walked down to the shore top see what the boy was doing. The man noticed that the boy was picking up and tossing out star fish. "Boy why are you doing that?" The man said "They will die IF I don't" Answered the boy "You can't make a difference"The man replied "But I made a difference in this one." the boy replied. The man shocked swtarted to help the boy pick up and throw out the star fish aqnd thrrough them out and went out and told others. Soon others joined in to help the boy helping to throught them out in to the ocean. -Juju Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
“The well-known species of starfish tend to be generalist predators, eating pretty much anything that's too slow to escape. Many prey heavily on bivalves (mussels, clams, and oysters).” http://www.vsf.cape.com/~jdale/science/ecology.htm Which means I guess you can get away with just about anything, and people will even help you, if you’re pretty. Thanks Juju! |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Well Yes I am pretty, My eye brows are perfectly symetrical and all. That is what at least my friend says. I am glad you think I am prettty too. I like long walks along the beach under the moon as the ocean crashes at my feet. -Juju Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Juju, “I like long walks along the beach under the moon as the ocean crashes at my feet.” “The well-known species of starfish tend to be generalist predators, eating pretty much anything” Be careful out there. |
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