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What constitutes
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What constitutes |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704
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a poem? Now this is a topic guaranteed to keep me up at nights... Take this recent scenario: There I am, reading my newly purchased poetry journal, all excited...and then, one of the first poems reads something like this: 'i want a $3000 spoon i want a $5000 carpet i want a $2300 garden hoe i want a $2000 fork Then after I have used them I will throw them all away...' (This is not the exact poem for that would be breach of copyright etc...but something along the lines of it.) Now I'm SORRY - but what is poetic about THAT? Anything?? Anything at ALL? This, my friends, is the kind of stuff that editors today look for: the 'contemporary' poems. IE: poems that a 5 year old in a demanding mood could create while walking into a toystore.. Some contemporary work is great certainly - I even write it - but stuff with a POINT, with a flow, with rhythm...not - drivel like the above! This is devastating I say...! What do you think? Got any examples of similar so-called poetry?  K |
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Dark Angel Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095 |
hmmmmmm well what I call this kind of poetry is ....CRAP!!!! let me say it again....CRAP!!! LOL What comes from the heart goes to the heart. Samuel Coleridge |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Ohhhhhhh c'mon you two .. surely you both know better than that, too much Sydney sun I guess !!  .. ok .. sure this isn't the sorta stuff extolled by friend Brad .. y'know the red red roses, beaches, dreams, soul, lurve, sunsets etc etc BUT .... you gotta admit its got DEPTH !! .. look closely, look at the subtle nuance, the deft allusion and the way the poet delicately draws the reader into a meaningful pondering of the complexity and problems in society today .. ...surely you were up all night LK pondering those things ?... if not, well! .. SP |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Let's put it this way - I started writing when I was perusing the Literature textbooks I was teaching from... and I decided I could write better poetry than the "contemporary" stuff they're printing today... My personal opinion is that there are more than a few editors who need to change their vocations...  |
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Dusk Treader
Moderator
Senior Member
since 1999-06-18
Posts 1187St. Paul, MN |
They call that poetry? How pathetic that is... Methinks I could write better verse, and I am no poet. Let me add my CRAP!!! To Dark Angel's, LOL |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Leave it to you m'dear, to bring forth a topic not easily answered. Of course my first response falls somewhere between the aforementioned "crap," and a different four-letter word.  BUT, (as if you expected otherwise) I have to say that's not necessarily fair to the "author." What consitutes a poem? I think phrased as such, this question might be too ambiguous. There are many different styles of poetry... some what I consider poetry and some which I most assuredly don't. As an example, I want to give you this little excerpt: "Love that bore me I bear back to my Origin with no loss, I float over the vomiter thrilled with my deathlessness, thrilled with this endlessness I dice and bury, come Poet shut up eat my word, and taste my mouth in your ear." From "The End" -Allen Ginsberg 1926-1997 "Ok..." Christopher says. Touted as a so-called "poet-laureate of the 1950s Beat Generation," Ginsberg lays claim to such titles as "Vomit Express" and "Mescaline." Now as far as my opinion goes, this is crap. (Go ahead, boo, yell, throw things at me.) But as I see it, this is almost non-sensical, closer to something you'd expect as a result of a drug trip (perhaps not too farr off the mark) rather than something to be considered as "poetry." Yet he's all but revered even to this day, with many websites devoted to him and his... ummm... "work." And there's no denying, (if you've been to a poetry reading lately) that "beat poetry" is still a fairly popular form. (I know this may seem an odd way to communicate my thoughts, but hey, I'm faking it as I go along!) The point I'm trying to make, is that as long as someone puts out their feelings in a written or verbal form, it can be considered poetry. No "form" of poetry was recognized as such until it was recognized as such. Just like the words in our launguage, (a perfect example being "ain't") even if they're not recognized as words at the time, if they're still being used as words....then who dares claim otherwise? So my answer to this would be just about anything someone wants to call poetry, is poetry Now if you ask what comprises GOOD poetry, that's an ENTIRELY different matter!  |
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Jonas Senior Member
since 2000-03-03
Posts 796Oregon |
*chuckling* I have been the subject of some pretty vicious attacks on another forum lately because I brought up a similiar subject. And I almost never submit my work for publication anymore because of what editors now consider to be publishable poetry. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Sharon, You crack me up. You forgot to mention my love for cotton candy poems Guys, I read that piece and went, okay, kind of simple, but it's got a point and readers of poetry love that anti-materialist stuff, anti-middle America stuff. I certainly don't think that is one of Ginsberg's best but I liked that last line there (the second to last line is far too self indulgent but, hey, that's Ginsberg). In general, though I don't know what you guys are reading in modern poetry. If you read the Atlantic or Poetry or any of the Best American Poetry series -- I think you'll fine that most of the new stuff is not that experimental. True, they aren't always as traditional as some may want here -- nothing wrong with that. The fun part of poetry today is that there really is no dominant 'movement' right now -- just about anything goes as long as it 'works' for some people. Sure, you've got the traditionalists (do I dare put some of you guys in that camp) and sites that are adamantly against tradition (the avant gardists who seem to have forgotten that all this was done over fifty years ago -- so much for the revolution) but I hesitate to define poetry in any particular way because we're limiting what others may find enjoyable. We can do anything as writers, we can read so much variety. We can read whatever we want. Why do we want to change this? Brad |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Brad ..I guess I've been gone too long .... a sex change AND a change of name .. and what about poor ole Sharon ....lol makes a change from philip with two "L's" though... P I hope it WAS my post you were talkin' about and not something i missed from P deV!!! [This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 05-13-2000).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Sorry about that Philip, It was pretty late when I read that. I guess I just saw the first part and assumed the rest. Damn assumptive thinking! I still thought it was funny. Brad |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
good heavens Brad talk about extrapolation ... you aren’t an Economist in your spare time by any chance... which reminds me of a joke: an engineer, physicist and economist marooned on a desert island. All they have to eat is one tin of beans but nothing to open it with. The other two turn to the engineer and say, “what do you suggest?” The engineer thinks for a bit and then puts forward an idea using a pulley system of a vine over a nearby palm and a big rock to drop on the tin. With a certain amount of derision the other two dismiss the proposition. The physicist then suggests they might put the tin in the fire for a few seconds and then quicky submerge it in a cold rock pool. Visions of the beans floating away however soon make them discard that idea as well. In desperation they turn to the economist, who steepling his fingers sagely, looks encouragingly wise (as economists do) then he speaks: “Assume a tin opener”, he says. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ as you say Brad ...... damn assumptive thinking ... never did like economics! P |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Nan - I fully agree!! (Some of my English lecturers..grrrrrr...) Maree hon - I know what you mean! DT - add away! Jonas - DON'T give up....my philosophy: I have been published once (ok - so I have only submitted 3 times so I can't complain) but I am going to give 'them' some of what they want - and once I am famous - cause I will be! - then I will assault the world with my style! (And if people in other forums can't cope with your opinion ignore them...) Chris - hmmmm....of course you have to dispute me yes? My main prob...poetry is subjective right? Ok - that is fine...interpret this way, interpret that...that is how it goes. BUT - I dare claim otherwise...I truly believe it is rather like artwork...throw some paint at a screen and hey presto you're it! I see no LOVE, nor PASSION in the above I suppose...perhaps that may be too emotive, yet: there is a trend now to be emotionless - gone are the all encompassing adjectives and vivid imagery. Now it is DRY...desert is the word of the day! So - while this style may well be considered poetry, and may well be in demand, I believe it falls short of the ideal of poetry.... I guess to me it is like most things in this world - there are standards by which we live by...now I wouldn't like to give poetry a standard exactly as that is far too inhibiting and while I agree that experimentation is essential, I also feel that art is the essence of a poem - the above just doesn't cut it! (And if I had said 'good' poetry - that would've changed the entire nature of the question wouldn't it?) Now - My dear Sir P and Brad. All I can do is laugh...and laugh...and laugh... (The name suits you SP - it is quite freezing, though I was thinking of Shirley myself...) K[This message has been edited by Severn (edited 05-17-2000).] |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
hummpphhh gettin' sassy now are you LK ..just coz some misguided young lad (did i say young??!!) helped you to your present august position you think you can laugh at us commoners ... ..grrr |
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bbynams Junior Member Posts 49 |
I don't get it. It says to assume something about where they live. Writing without a POINT is POINTLESS, after all. When was it written? |
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