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Important Forum Changes
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Important Forum Changes |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US 
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Some seven years ago, the pipTalk forums were created in large part because a small group of people got really, really tired of the gratuitous sex and violence being posted in other poetry forums. I don't think a single one of us were prudes, which is probably why the stuff being posted for shock value neither shocked us nor impressed us, but we figured there had to be a better way to share poetry. From that first day, when there were only a handful of us here and no easy way for anyone else to find us, we labored to maintain a family-oriented atmosphere through the simple expedient of cooperation. The rules didn't really come until much later. They did eventually come, though, along with an Adults Only forum to house poetry and prose that didn't well fit into the family structure we were building. We intentionally kept the rules very loosely defined, and still continued to rely more on a sense of cooperation than on hard and fast mandates. It worked surprisingly well for a surprisingly long time. Nothing lasts forever, however, and over the course of the last year we've struggled with two related problems. 1. Loosely defined rules, to be of any use, need to be interpreted by people. That didn't create a problem when we were smaller and the interpretations were always done by the same people, but growth and inevitable changes in staff (not to mention changes in individuals themselves over the years) have resulted in a lot of inconsistency. What was unacceptable in Open Poetry a year ago was suddenly deemed fine today, with a very real danger it would again be unacceptable next week. 2. Loosely defined rules, to be of any use, need to be interpreted by people - and that is NOT an easy job. It can be extremely frustrating for staff to toe the line when the line seems to be constantly moving, and there has been increasing pressure to try to make things a little more black and white and a lot less murky. The forums have been closed for the past few days, in part so we could try to work through some of these problems. The result is only a start, but I think it has the potential to be a good start. Here's a brief synopsis of some of the changes you can expect to see:  We have tried to devise a Forum Ratings System, not unlike the movie rating system Hollywood has been following for most of thirty years. Each of the forums now includes a Rating, from G to PG to PG-18 to R to NC-18, listed in the forum description as a live link to an explanation of exactly what it means. Well, as exact as is possible, at least. We're always going to have a fair bit of gray twixt the black and white, and I have little doubt our Forum Ratings will evolve quite a bit more over the next year. We're going to depend on you, all of you, to help us with that. The use of adult language in the public forums has consistently been the one area most lacking any real consistency. One person's swear word is often another person's endearment, it seems, and there have been a long series of knock-down Moderator discussions on what should and shouldn't be appropriate. George Carlin's list of "Seven Word You Can't Say on Television" notwithstanding, no two people seem to be able to reach any agreement (indeed, one of our Moderators still vociferously argues that one of the words on Carlin's list should be allowed in the public forums).Most of my time for the past few days has been spent rewriting just about everything that has to do with posting, replying or editing. We've always had a word filter available, that cute little darlin' that changes naughty words to asterisks, but we've never used it very much because a thinly disguised profanity is still a profanity when the readers can easily interpret the intent. All the asterisks ever did was create more work, both for the Moderators and for the Members who had to edit their work after it was moved to a more appropriate forum. The new posting software, instead of changing words into asterisks, simply won't allow proscribed words and phrases to be posted in the wrong forum. Period. End of discussion. (You will be given some choices, of course, depending on where you are and what you were doing. The choices, I hope, will be self-evident should you stumble on them.) Honestly, I could have used a few more days on the software. And probably a few more days after that to better test it. There are likely going to be a few glitches, and there are pieces of the puzzle yet to be built. We need a way so those who are interested can see the list of filtered words, I'd like to incorporate an override so that someone talking about a female dog can still use the right term in a public forum, and those are just two items off the top of my head. Like all else, it's a work in progress, and as always, your suggestions (and condemnations) will be welcome. Finally, the forums have been rearranged a bit, a task I actually started more than a week ago. Some of the minor changes are indeed so minor I doubt anyone will even notice them. The real goal was to give our Mature Content category a bit more exposure. With the tightening of the rules and language in our public forums (G and GP), the forums in MC are necessarily going to play a greater role at pipTalk.The Insights forum, in particular, has gained greater prominence and now sits directly beneath the Open Poetry forum. Even though it's seemingly out of order, Insights is still an MC forum and still requires people to request access (mostly to insure no one inadvertently walks through the door without realizing where they're at). For many people, I expect Insights will become their new Open Poetry, a place where they can explore the grittier side of adult life, largely free of the language and thematic strictures in the G and GP forums. Our remaining MC forums remain much as they have in the past, and of course there's always the possibility more MC forums will be needed. That will be up to you guys. It's important to remember that, when push comes to shove, software, forum ratings, rules, organizations and structures, will never be a substitute for human judgment. We're still going to have inconsistencies, in theme if not in language, and we're still going to run into all those various shades of gray. And, of course, we're still going to have people trying to push the envelope in spite of every hint we throw at them. Our Moderators have one of the toughest jobs imaginable. Your help and appreciation can make that job immensely rewarding, while your lack of restraint and consideration can just as easily make it unbearably frustrating. The Moderators, first and foremost, come here to write and read and enjoy poetry, just as you do, and whether they will continue to be willing to give freely of their time to keep these forums running will depend on each of you. Should the day arrive when we can no longer insure the quality that makes pipTalk unique, these doors will close, not just for a few days, but forever. The fate of this community rests in the hands of our Moderators. The fate of the Moderators rests in yours. |
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| © Copyright 2006 Ron Carnell - All Rights Reserved | |||
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iliana Member Patricius
since 2003-12-05
Posts 13434USA |
Thank you, Ron (and Moderators), for taking such good care of us!  ....jo[This message has been edited by iliana (03-18-2006 02:53 AM).] |
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Trillium 
since 2001-03-09
Posts 12098Idaho, USA |
Ron: Thanks for all your hard work and hoepfully, PIP will be here forever! Betty Lou Betty Lou Hebert |
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ThisDiamond Member Rara Avis
since 2002-02-22
Posts 9353Michigan, USA |
I have missed the blue these last few days, and wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your efforts. Not an easy task, I'm sure...but then, this is the best poetry group going. Thanks Ron, and Moderators. TD |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thank you, Ron. I'm sure there will be misunderstandings while we get the "gist" of it--but I think this is a great plan.  And you are a far more patient person than I--I would have kicked me out years ago.  |
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Ratleader
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass |
I've been hoping for exactly these changes, so of course not suggesting them....nothing gets things done like being too bashful to make a suggestion....nonetheless I'm truly glad to see this. Nothing's ever perfect, but this is a big push in that direction -- thank you! ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº> ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº> ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº> |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
 Thank you Ron. |
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Marshalzu
since 2001-02-15
Posts 2681Lurking |
Great work Ron |
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Greeneyes
since 2000-09-09
Posts 9903In Your Poetic Mind |
so good to read these little changes.....thank you Ron.. And so it those we live with |
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Gentle Spirit Member Patricius
since 2000-10-09
Posts 13989 |
Ron, I think many of us are glad for the new changes and am confident that this will make access to the correct forum per individual much easier. *Applause and KUDOS* |
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Martie
Moderator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-09-21
Posts 28049California |
I've really missed this place the last few days. Thank you, Ron, for all the hard work! |
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Enchantress Member Empyrean
since 2001-08-14
Posts 35113Canada eh. |
Thank you Ron!  |
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suthern
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723Louisiana |
Hmmmmm... I'd typed a response I thought was at least somewhat amusing... but the computer gods didn't agree and kicked me off into cyber-wasteland. LOL So... I'll play it safe this time and just say... thank you, Ron... I like the changes. *S* |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
These forum format changes should help everyone swim more easily through the often murky is-it-appropriate-for-open waters. Ron, thank you for offering everyone an easy-to-follow identifiable solution. |
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vlraynes Member Rara Avis
since 2000-07-25
Posts 8229Somewhere... out there... |
Thank you, Ron... |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
And all along I thought PiPtalk was my constitutional right. There's always that urge for a fix when it's down. So gone forever would not be pleasant. As usual, I like your creativity and look forward to test driving the new model. Your commitment to this home will never cease to amaze me. Thank you Ron for all you do and provide.  |
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sandgrain Member Elite
since 1999-09-21
Posts 3662Sycamore, IL, USA |
You are so appreciated, Ron. When I found this place closed, I thought I'd better say some prayers for you. Hopefully, I'll remember to do that while they're up and running. I don't know how you do it and you wouldn't even want to attempt explaining it to me. Bundles and bundles of thanks. Rae |
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icebox Member Elite
since 2003-05-03
Posts 4383in the shadows |
I am as much at a loss as always when it comes to censorship and community standards, but I am always appreciative of the gift of this place's existence. It would have been artistically nice to have been able still to edit something that had been posted just before the forums were shut down but I realize a dynamic clock is not practical programming. It has been said of the Supreme Court's attempts at defining "community standards" that the concept can only work in a static and closed monolithic community. A community of poets can never be that, but I am sure we can try to be somewhat civilized...and forgiving. We might succeed; who knows, stranger things have happened. I am not being critical and I don't even attempt to offer solutions. We struggle here trying to understand each other's views on obscenity and profanity; we balk at the abyss of suicide. Yet as poets have done throughout history, many of us reel at the obscenities of modern life, the spiritual profanities of world and domestic politics and policies; and, many of us grapple daily with the demons of depression and weigh the "easy" solution of suicide, attractive in its offer to blunt the knives of insight and the horrors of understanding, to end the pain of awareness. We are at the bottom line also just a community of humans. Always we should remember, it is very easy to be perfect; it is a much more difficult task to be human. |
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1slick_lady Member Ascendant
since 2000-12-22
Posts 6088standing on a shadow's lace |
thank you for being here we love you , you know that |
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Honeybunch Member Rara Avis
since 2001-12-29
Posts 7115South Africa |
Thank you, Ron! The blue pages form an important part of my life - I just didn't realise how much until they went missing. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
The work that you and your staff continue to produce, Ron, through discussion, and a lot of work on your part, has never ceased to amaze me. You've taken a home [I was member number 193] into the realms of lives of literally thousands...and we span ages, ethnicities, geographical climes, the whole nine yards, as a "community of poets". You continue to offer what other forums won't offer - diversity. You continue to give freely of your spirit and ingenuity. While some may disagree that to keep a place clean to your standards may regress their writing, then all I can say is that they are not reaching hard enough to impart what can be said with less graphic use of language, and instead, study the art of the word. And there are SO many words out there to choose from. Of course, you've never applied a ball and chain to anyone to get them to post "only here, and no where else" and all members should realize that there will always be an exit door, to go along with the entrance door that they walked through, to find such a "haven". So thank you, for the continued tweaking. |
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WindWalker Senior Member
since 2001-10-12
Posts 1218 |
Ron I really appreciate all the hard work you and your staff do, to maintain this web site. I think it is one of the best poetry boards on the net!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Earth Angel Member Empyrean
since 2002-08-27
Posts 40215Realms of Light |
I was going through pipTalk withdrawal ~ and it was not a pretty sight! I missed my home-away-from-home! Ron, I cannot even imagine how difficult keeping this site up and running, must be! I join all the other pipsters in expressing my appreciation to you and to all of the moderators! Pip Pip Hooray! Linda |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
Thank you for all your hard work Ron. You are very much appreciated. |
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hoot_owl_rn Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750Glen Hope, PA USA |
Ron, As you know, I've been a member on here for a great many years and sometimes much more active than others. I've seen the changes this site has gone through since its conception and all the work and dedication that yourself and the moderators have put into making this a home, not just another poetry site and I applaud you all for that. This recent change is yet another in a long line of changes to make this site more reader friendly...my hat's off to you, it looks great! Ruth |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Thank you. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Awwwwwww, thanks, dearest Ron, you truly are our wonderful wizard friend, yay!  Love, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Hey Ron! Nice Digs.. I like what you've done with YOUR living room.... ! Sometimes I think people forget... The expanded emphasis on mature formus will be undoubtedly better. |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
I hear he got carried away cleaning his desk...  So this is how it is, Ron - You work overtime for days on end to make everyone else's jobs easier... You do know how much I appreciate you, right?... [This message has been edited by Nan (03-18-2006 07:01 AM).] |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Thank you so very much, Ron, for all your hard work for us here at PIP. We love and appreciate you. Hugs, Ethel |
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Skyfire
since 2000-12-27
Posts 3381Riding |
Ron... thank you |
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Enchantress Member Empyrean
since 2001-08-14
Posts 35113Canada eh. |
Forgot to save this Thanks again Ron! |
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Earth Angel Member Empyrean
since 2002-08-27
Posts 40215Realms of Light |
Ron, I can't stop laughing right now. I was trying to post a reply to iliana's response to my poem "Love Your Body", but it wouldn't post. I kept being sent back to my reply window. Then I scrolled up and found that I had used inappropriate language. *** Inappropriate Content Detected *** Sorry, but the following word(s) are NOT appropriate in this forum. The words must be removed (not masked by asterisks or misspellings) before the post can be accepted. (Note that I had to add "pe" because I couldn't post this reply either! lol Inappropriate words found: hope ~ The following was my response to iliana that was not accepted. "Hi hope! Hi hope! Off to a spa we go! Yeppers! That sounds heavenly! I'm in the mood for being pampered!" Actually, I am very pleased that you have computered a language watchdog into the forum. But I thought I'd share this funny incident with you!  Linda |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
That is indeed funny, Linda. Karilea tells me someone else recently discovered they couldn't talk about Mary Tyler Moore's first television husband either. The list of words we're filtering, most of which are the result of a decidingly "interesting" Google search, is definitely a work in progress. I'm sure we'll be making some changes as we go. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
 now, Santa can't say his favorite line! ohno! no hohohohoomg, it takes that but you can't leave the h and o by itself you know, or it tells you it's mature content  |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
yo hoh hoh and a bottle of rum? |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
I hear the sounds of tweak, tweak, tweaking going on... |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
LOLOL  |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
LOLOL OOOpsy...it burped!! |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
dick is a bad word? oh.. no.. it just doesn't like the LAST part of the last name...  ENGLISH!!!! what a language |
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bslicker
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
acknowledged bernie A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. |
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Misty Lilacs Senior Member
since 2005-11-15
Posts 1060White Birch Forest |
You are a GIANT among men! Every time I visit or post, I am awed by the level of poetry and how welcome I always feel. Congratulations to you and your highly paid staff for all you do for each of us!  Thank you, thank you!!! hugs, Marti |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Somebody pick Kacy up off the floor! I'm sure she's fallen and can't get up! If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
lol now Larry, let's just see if this makes it through... I was gardening today and dropped my hoe on the wet grass.  hey, it went through as typed, hoe and allhmm, what happens to #! by itself ...has our wizard tweaked the SW for Santa's elves? LOL, IF you put the h and o together, side-by-side, you get this humongous flag that identifies the inappropriate word Mature Content Detected but what if slang words are misspelled by one letter? you know me, always the devil's advocate |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
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doreen_peri
Unregistered
MemberPosts 180 |
Yeah, I remember when we started it. It was great to be part of it! It was the gratuitous violence at another site that made some of us upset.... Rape and murder being glorified. (Rape isn't about sex, though.. it's about violence). I seriously thought a crime had been committed and someone on the internet was bragging about it. Seven years is a long time. Congratulations on your successful web site! Many sites don't last more than one or two years. You're doing something right, for sure! Hope the rating system works well for you. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
A little  for our new members... |
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aziza Member Elite
since 2006-07-09
Posts 2995Lumpy Oatmeal makes me Crazy! |
Thank you, Ron and all who work so hard to make this site what it is. I am new, but I love spending time in here reading and sharing. aziza |
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SmartChick Member Rara Avis
since 2001-09-23
Posts 7081On A Journey To The Unknown |
Thank you Ron for all the work you do here. |
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Neeraja Senior Member
since 2002-06-22
Posts 812The Netherlands |
Thanks Ron! |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Thanks again, Ron, for all you do. Hugs, Ethel |
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