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Critical Analysis #2
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WildPoet
Member
since 2003-11-10
Posts 205
California

0 posted 2003-12-01 02:36 PM


Satan's Whore

Called into dark corners they slip
For they where the first to join the ship
Plotting and scheming they write their letters
Truly they believe they are the betters

Looking down from over their noses
Friendly and honest are their poses
Getting insight from those who are new
They creep back to their holes to turn the screw

Beware the ones who came before
For they are Satan's favorite whore
            
            


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jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
1 posted 2003-12-01 03:10 PM


And so the WildPoet speaks
For those who cannot take critique.
Instead of thanks to those who give their time
To help beginners craft their rhyme,
He calls them “Satan’s favorite whore,”
Ignoring words from the days of yore:

“True ease in writing comes from art, not chance
As those move easiest who have learned to dance.”

So what is “Madiocrity” about?
Read “Satan’s Whore” to figure it out.

WildPoet
Member
since 2003-11-10
Posts 205
California
2 posted 2003-12-01 04:12 PM


I decided to put one of my rhymes in here to recieve some constructive advice, and what I get is accusations!
I've agreed with most of the critiques in this forum and thought I would benefit from
some myself.
It seems I made a mistake.The rhyme in question is one I wrote at another site, and in no way was it intended to insult anyone here.
The answer I recieved seems to be driven by some sense of guilt or insecurity.
Whatever your problem is jbouder, there is no excuse for your rude and insulting reply.  

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
3 posted 2003-12-01 05:02 PM


Okay.  Maybe I misinterpreted your intent, but given when you posted this, and that it differs so dramatically in tone from your posts in other forums, I thought you might be targeting certain members who post in this forum.  Add that to the fact that your first post in the Critical Analysis forum is an attack on critiquers, I believe my interpretation was a reasonable one.

I'll get back to the poem when I have the time.

Jim

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
4 posted 2003-12-01 07:56 PM


In light of recent events, I can understand how Jim misinterpreted your intent. It would fit the mold almost perfectly. Thank you for the clarification. I am pleased to learn otherwise.

Now, for the poem. Again, for Jim's reason above, I find it difficult to see the theme otherwise. So, I'll just talk about the technicals.

Except for the last couplet, I felt all the other rhymes were just a wee bit forced, not too bad but I think it could be improved. I also would like to see a more consistent meter. Except for the first line, which I have a hard time with metrically, the rest all is recognizable tetrameter. But the feet wander through iambs, dactyls, trochees and anapests. I found this distracting. I would suggest working on it some to get a more consistent
anapest, probably. You might leave the last two as iambic but I think even that would be better changed.

Pete

Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr

WildPoet
Member
since 2003-11-10
Posts 205
California
5 posted 2003-12-02 12:56 PM


Ok, Pete, this is what I was looking for. Thank you for your time.I'll work on those suggestions, either on this poem or a new one.

As for jbouder, I can see he's not going to believe me, so let me say this...

I was brought to Passions in Poetry by a friend who assured me that I would be welcome here. I joined and posted a few poems and recieved fun and positive responses.
I had written this poem about a month ago and decided to get some serious input on it. So I posted it in Critical Analysis.
I recieved notice that I had a reply, and went to PIP thinking someone had advice for a novice poet.
Only to find that I was wrongly accused of some slander against the Moderators!
Is this the welcome you give all the members here? I really should have read everything that was posted before I submitted a piece for analysis. I thought  it was a place for critique.
I wanted to grow as a poet. I wanted advice. What I got was an abusive attack by an egomaniac who believes everything is about him. Maybe that makes him feel important. Anyway I will not post here again. I hope your other members receive a better response then I did.

Mysteria
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Member Laureate
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328
British Columbia, Canada
6 posted 2003-12-02 03:02 AM


Bob I am so very sorry you got this response to your poem here and am sure it was just a sincere misunderstanding.  I am also so sorry you feel you are unable to post here, as I think what you have contributed so far have been very worthwhile contributions.  I hope you might rise above this instance and continue to submit your poetry here.  Poets have a tendancy to be dramatic by nature, and I like to think that is what makes them poets   Welcome to Passions by the way, and hope to read more.

I am not qualified to give you a proper critique but I thoroughly enjoyed your posting.

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
7 posted 2003-12-02 08:24 AM


WildPoet:

Well, a solipsic egomaniac is closer to the truth than Satan's whore.   Why don't we just call this water under the bridge and move on.  I'll accept your word that you were not targeting people in this forum and ask that you accept my apology.

Regarding the poem, Pete addressed some of its technical needs, and I agree with him.  I would suggest that you also take a look at its style.  Rhyming couplets are more commonly used in humorous poetry and I think the delivery of the poem's message might be better served if you varied the rhyme scheme.  

Pete also mentioned that some of the rhymes seemed forced, and I agree with this also.  Lines in the better lyrical poems you'll read will use inversions conservatively. For example:

quote:
Friendly and honest are their poses


Would you speak like this in everyday conversation?  Probably not.  You would probably say, "Their pose is friendly and honest" or something like that.  The rhyme shouldn't control the line, but rather should be a natural part of it.  You may also want to consider enjambing your lines, continuing your sentence through the rhyme to run onto the other line.  There is also nothing wrong with adding punctuation mid-line.

My last crit is of your use of "Satan's whore."  Yeah, it is offensive, but more notably, the label doesn't seem to fit what you are describing.  A prostitute seems to me to be more self destructive than pernicious.  If you want to apply a label to those who seek to cause harm, I think you can find a better example than "whore."

Just my opinion. Hope it is helpful.

Jim

Always Lisa
Member
since 2003-06-08
Posts 133

8 posted 2003-12-02 09:11 AM


>Would you speak like this in everyday conversation?  Probably not.

Jim, most try not to write poetry like everyday conversation. Most try to say something in a fresh new way. Was that line good? I don't think so but I don't think your advice on that stanza was good either. That's my view anyway.

Last but not least, the timing of this poem seems a bit ironic. For the author to not see that, is revealing in itself in my view. Instead, the irony of it was ignored by the author.  Again, that's my view and I'm sticking to it.

Regards,
Always Lisa


jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
9 posted 2003-12-02 09:38 AM


Lisa:

I agree with you, but I was speaking more to the ordering of the words than to a poem's content.  I don't think there is anything "fresh and new" about forcing an inversion to preserve a rhyme scheme.  Perhaps you would agree to this?

Jim

Always Lisa
Member
since 2003-06-08
Posts 133

10 posted 2003-12-02 10:29 AM


Jim, smiles* Yup, I do agree with that. You were speaking from a grammar standpoint but I didn't think you expressed that enough so I called you on it. Smiles.

Next, would you agree that this poem rhymes but there is no "scheme" about it but for the rhyme? Would you also agree that the author needs to be more concerned about beats to page before ever having real understand of forced rhyme? My thought is that the author has a long way to go before his words come together in rhyme; forced rhyme aside.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

Regards,
Always Lisa



Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
11 posted 2003-12-02 10:35 PM


Lisa, I'm not sure what you meant by,
quote:
Next, would you agree that this poem rhymes but there is no "scheme" about it but for the rhyme?

If you mean the rhyme seems to be controlling the poem then I fully agree. But I think that is always the first impression when the rhymes appear forced. As Jim pointed out, rhyming couplets are more commonly found in more light-hearted poetry. It can be quite difficult to use the form when treating a serious subject. That fact could also be influencing your impression.

In any case, there seems to be general agreement on the more obvious problems with this particular poem. This is not to say, of course, that it cannot be fixed. It does have some technical merit although I still have a hard time separating it from the incidents that originally threw Jim off. Sometimes timing can be everything. In this case, it was unfortunate.

Pete

Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr

mysticpoe
Senior Member
since 2003-02-28
Posts 883

12 posted 2003-12-05 09:01 PM


Hey, WildPoet. I personally like to read poems for there meaningful content. 10% of the poets inner thoughts seem to reach the text. The other 90% we seem to own until the next time or for a long time or maybe all the time. I liked your write here, and the imagery you expressed. I considered it a good write. But when others critically critique you for other than content. ( which, by the way they always do ). Then what they say, seems like an attack. I know, I've been massacred in the pass. Still am on some sites. In the beginning my reactions were hostile. But what I didn't realize, is when most take the time to respond. They saw something about your write which intrigued them. whether they said good write or bad write, your write was still good. Because for one reason or another, they responded. I try to be diplomatic now. Take the good with the bad, and what I want, home with me. Sorry for babbling on here. Good writing.

poe  

If nothing is something
then everything is
our thoughts and feelings
and all that exists.

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