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Always Lisa
Member
since 2003-06-08
Posts 133


0 posted 2003-12-01 11:19 AM



Covet to Kill

When two sheets in a hurricane
She'd cry about the oddest things
Like how her grapes were always green
Or how her life was tangled strings

For years she looked for nail and screw
She gave her love to any Jack    
Of trade she spread herself like dirt
She counted cash on weary back

She raked on weed and dust then quit
And bore a baby girl in spring
Then pulled a stitch while bent at work
Agreed to blow, instead she'd sing

To barren lot of church of Saints
A teacher John and coach of ten
He traded tenth for coming sixth
By stabbing out the sins of men

She's dead and grapes have long been gone
Like sins...her baby's tangled on

Always Lisa,
Copyright Feb 2003
Revised Copyright, Dec 2003



© Copyright 2003 Always Lisa - All Rights Reserved
hush
Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653
Ohio, USA
1 posted 2003-12-02 01:36 PM


I think this has a better rhythmic flow than the last version... you added some words that make it flow off the tongue more easily. Although, I'm not sure I like it more that way... I think the choppiness of the first one better, as far as tone goes...

BTW, thanks for the explanation... I think I understand this as a whole better now (and especially the line about pulling a stitch at work... it's especially graphic and... stunning in the context of her line of work).

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
2 posted 2003-12-02 03:25 PM


Lisa:

I thought you did an excellent job with this.  I think there are some places where the language can be smoothed a bit and some punctuation to give me a better sense of where a phrase or sentence ends and another begins.  Or perhaps you intended the poem to seem to run on?  I can see how that would fit the theme.

I didn’t read your explanation, but I believe this is about a woman caught up in prostitution and drug abuse, who is murdered, leaving her daughter’s life to continue the tangle.  There is quite a bit here: bad choices, futile attempts to clean things up, murder, and a daughter left to pay for the sins of the mother.

A couple nits: (1) Is the first line a complete phrase?  I couldn’t figure out its meaning. (2) I like the enjambment in the poem but think, especially in S2, that punctuation would help it read more smoothly. (3) There is something about the arrangement of the lines in S4 that makes it difficult for me to follow.  I could figure out what happened, it just took a little more work than I think it had to.

Again, overall, I think this is a strong offering.  Thanks for the read.

Jim

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
3 posted 2003-12-02 10:19 PM


Lisa,

I liked the original and I think you have improved it here. I recall having only a couple of minor nits before and I see you have taken care of those As Jim said, there may be some wording that could stand review. I can't remember who it was that said, "A poem is finished only when the poet is safely six feet under." I don't have any further suggestions for you   

Somehow, I missed your explanation at the end of the forst thread until after reading the revision. I think both versions do justice to your theme.

The meter appears completely regular this time. As a confirmed traditionalist, I have to appreciate that but Hush has a point too. In fact, I thought the meter was excellent in the original.

All things considered, I think I do prefer the revision.

And Jim, go read her explanation at the end of the original post. I think you will enjoy.

Thanks,
Pete

Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
4 posted 2003-12-03 09:52 AM


Hi Lisa,

+ I think it flows better

+ And the wording is better in some places

- It still lacks punctuation though.  I don't see
  why you decided to leave this out, especially
  just simple periods at the end of some lines.  
  Is it on particular purpose?

- In L12 you flow from "she'd sing" and
  then switch subject to "He" all the sudden in
  L15.  I think "who" or "whom" could go in
  place of he and take away that pause that happens
  with "he".  

- If it is in present tense at
  the end perhaps "tangles on" may work
  better.

- How come you don't show any apparent sympathy for
  the subject, a crime victim? I noted this more
  after reading your the details you gave and
  reading this over more than a few times again.
  I think it could use a sentiment, some light upon
  a perspective/feeling to give better depth;
  instead of just alluding figuratively and
  eloquently in a distant way.  It is a cold
  countenance of words; and perhaps that is what
  you wished it to be; I was curious about it.
  Was this woman just a prostitute?

Just some things to think upon.  

Thanks for the reading and letting me try to be a critic.

Essorant

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-03-2003 11:13 AM).]

Always Lisa
Member
since 2003-06-08
Posts 133

5 posted 2003-12-03 11:50 AM


>Hi Lisa,

>+ I think it flows better

>+ And the wording is better in some places

>- It still lacks punctuation though.  I don't see
> why you decided to leave this out, especially
>just simple periods at the end of some lines.  
>Is it on particular purpose?


Personal preference and avoiding being a punctuation criminal.


>- In L12 you flow from "she'd sing" and
> then switch subject to "He" all the sudden in
>L15.  I think "who or even "whom" could go in
>place of he and take away that pause that happens
>with "he".  

>- If it is in present tense at
>the end perhaps "tangles on" may work
>better.

>- How come you don't show any apparent sympathy for
>the subject, a crime victim?

Because this poem wasn't about me or my feelings. It should be left for the reader to feel from what they've read. I didn't think it should be tainted by my personal feeling.


>I noted this more
> after reading your the details you gave and
> reading this over more than a few times again.

My details wern't about spilling my guts. I don't think in doing so; the reader would have a better understanding of the poem.

> I think it could use a sentiment, some light upon
>a perspective/feeling to give better depth;
>instead of just alluding figuratively and
>eloquently in a distant way.  

The cold hard facts can make one feel that way. The poem did its job in that respect. You wanted better for that woman (Carrie). A face, compassion. You wish you could avoid reading another statistic but that's what you read and not unlike me hearing about her death in much the same light on the news. I gave this woman a much greater light than you know and you'll find that light in yourself. I see some of it here in your response.

>It is a cold
> countenance of words; and perhaps that is what
>you wished it to be; I was curious about it.
> Was this woman just a prostitute?

She's whatever the reader wants her to be. For me, she's a part of my past, a poem and a face I'll never forget.


>Just some things to think upon.  

>Thanks for the reading and letting me try to be a critic.

>Essorant

Regards,
Always Lisa


[This message has been edited by Always Lisa (12-03-2003 11:53 AM).]

Tim
Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794

6 posted 2003-12-04 08:03 PM


"When two sheets in a hurricane"

I have a bit of difficulty with the first line.

Is it to be read

When two sheets (to the wind) in a hurricane?

indicating drunk in a maelstrom, or more along the lines of
When two sheets to the hurricane,

substituting hurricane for the wind and therefore signifying a really big drunk.

With either interpretation, the line does not sound right to me in relation to the theme of the poem.

I would find the line more fitting for a humorous poem.

If the substitution of hurricane for wind is the aim, then in my opinion "in" should be changed to "to", although the line is just missing something for me as it says, here is a play on a cliche rather than getting across a mood or feeling to set the stage for the rest of the poem.


cynicsRus
Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591
So Cal So Cool!
7 posted 2003-12-05 12:26 PM


I realize you made the revisions to improve the meter, but I don’t find all the changes quite as satisfying as in the original.
For example, in L1, I don’t think the “When” adds anything and seems like a filler.
In S2-L1&3, I sort of preferred the original instead
In S4-L1, I felt adding “of church” was unnecessary. I preferred you leaving the meaning within this line more obscure.

Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com
www.primerhymeetc.com

Always Lisa
Member
since 2003-06-08
Posts 133

8 posted 2003-12-05 09:34 AM


Well, Sid, I took a little advice from someone in WP... Mike3R.... by keeping the whole thing tetrameter along with the "when" revision. Was it used for filler. Why yes it was. Does it look like filler if I hadn't read (looking at it from an outside view) the revisions before this one... My view is no.

The adding church... I agree with you in keeping it obscure. I'm starting to pull away from that intent by taking way too much advice. If I keep this up, the reader won't have to think and that is something I strive to avoid. If I keep this up, it will be the reader's poem and not for the reader and so it's time that I put this one away for to later call on my muse to guide me.

Regards,
Always Lisa



cynicsRus
Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591
So Cal So Cool!
9 posted 2003-12-05 07:30 PM


If I were you, I'd go with Mike's advice over mine any day. As far as the need to keep it your poem, you already know my position on that. In fact, that is actually what compelled me to add my opinion in the first place. I felt your changes were deviating too much from the original, somewhat nebulous premise, which is what first drew me in to attempt to search its heart. Also, as I’m sure you’re already aware, Tetrameter isn’t so strict that it doesn’t allow for a bit of modulation.

Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com
www.primerhymeetc.com

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