Shadows That We Cast (a sestina)

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Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

0 posted 2002-03-29 02:33 PM

I wrote this for Nan's workshop a couple of weeks ago and thought I would submit it here to get some ideas. Thanks in advance for any help. The title was inspired by a wonderful DOUBLE SESTINA written by Skyfyre a year or so ago, but I'm afraid the rest is mine.

Shadows That We Cast
(Or The '60s)

With reckless zeal and vain intent we sought
Our self-indulgent goals because we thought
We wanted fortune, yes and even fame,
Yet rose to nothing but a faceless name,
And faded reminiscence of the past
Is what remains of shadows that we cast.

Rebellious in our plans and ways we cast
Ourselves upon ourselves because we sought
To cheaply learn the wisdom of the past,
Of prophets and of poets, with no thought
To what might be the impact on our name
Or bring about the downfall of our fame.

As often true, that fruitless search for fame
Was always doomed to failure for the cast
Of players on a stage without a name,
The non-conforming innocents who sought
To get but never give and only thought
Of hedonistic dreams, without a past.

With disregard for lessons of the past,
The circumstance that might engender fame
Is hard to realize, but still we thought
We knew the answers to the quest and cast
Our lot among the masses as we sought
The resolution of, "What is our name?"

What value is the making of a name
For now or time to come without a past?
The key was left for us by those who sought
Before, who won and lost and claimed their fame
And fortune earned. But their success was cast
By accident or luck . . . or so we thought.

And what's the worth of independent thought
If squandered by the thinkers in the name
Of righteous non-conformance as they cast
Their doubts upon the visage of the past?
There's precious little chance of gaining fame
For such as us but something must be sought.

And thus we sought no secrets from the past,
To make a name or have an hour of fame,
With little thought for shadows that we cast.

Christopher

Moderator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-08-02

Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration

1 posted 2002-03-29 04:18 PM

Pete - you get a gold star... just for the simple fact that you were a) able to do a Sestina in the first place, and b) that you were able to maintain a consistent theme throughout without making it seem repetitious (which, of course, it is).

This instantly made me think of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Billy Joel, though i of course recognize a large difference... just had that ballad-type feel.

Also of note, i enjoyed the irony of paying reference to non-conformists in the middle of a sestina - a double blow between the wording and the format.

As far as criticism - i refuse to criticize someone who sucessfully completes a sestina, as they must be on very good terms with god in order to be able to speak cleary afterward.

Tres Cool.

C

oh - PS: i think that's what's wrong with me - i once had the "brilliant"

idea of doing an Acrostic Sestina... it explains a lot when you think about it...

[This message has been edited by Christopher (03-29-2002 04:19 PM).]

hush
Senior Member

since 2001-05-27

Posts 1653
Ohio, USA

2 posted 2002-03-30 12:55 PM

I don't like sestinas, but I made it through this one. Consider that a compliment.

I do have to say that having the first letter of every line capitalized put speed bumps in the flow for me. I would personally have had an easier time if only new sentences were capitalized, but I know some people prefer the more traditional approach.

I also thought the actual rhythm was a little too regulated, sometimes seemed a bit forced (not much, but just a little bit) and once again, if you're a stickler for tradition, don't pay any attention, but I think this also would have been easier (and more provoking) to read if some extraneous syllables were taken away... but I'm also a pretty big fan of choppy lines and unevenness, so take that with a grain of salt.

In any case, I agree that your completion of this is admirable in and of itself... it's probably my general lack of enthusiasm for the form itself that kept me from really enjoying it. Hope I've helped.

"Love is a piano
dropped from a four story window
and you were in the wrong place
at the wrong time." -Ani DiFranco

Pearls_Of_Wisdom
Member

since 2000-09-02

Posts 175

3 posted 2002-04-24 09:11 AM

Hi Pete,

Long time no see.  Have I missed much around here?

This was an interesting piece and, I agree, a tough form.  I can feel the sincerity there, but it's like you have to work doubly hard to get it across with the restrictions of the form you choose.  I think hush is right, it does sound too regulated.  The lines are enjambed but, maybe because some of the words you choose as end-words rhyme or maybe because you don't use any small letters, I still want to pause at the line breaks.  This highlights the fact that all the end-words are the same, and you probably want it to seem like they aren't.

I would suggest going deeper with this, which might lead to (as potentially terrifying as this is) changing some end-words, and going for more uneven lines.  Why did they want fame?  What shadows did they cast / mistakes did they make?  Don't assume we know what you have in mind, as there are many possible answers.  I have to admit that I did find this a little repetitive, but I think the potential is there, and you've got lots of room for elaboration.  Maybe give us more images and fewer editorial comments.  You don't want us just to think but to feel your message at a gut level.

I think that's it.  It's too rational, and that's making it too prosey and/or awkward in spots like the third stanza.  Maybe it's just me, but when someone makes blanket statements, like "as often true", I immediately want to disagree.  I would prefer it if the speaker got more personal and honest about his/her feelings, rather than going for big overarching statements.  I can see the tendency, when you want to have a big impact, to go for big statements, but I think it's the little, simple, honest ones that truly move people.

I know you're talented--you wrote a double sestina in the first place, not to mention the strength of your other work--and you can make this even better with some time and tinkering.

I hope I've helped rather than discouraged you =),

Ashley

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

4 posted 2002-04-24 12:46 PM

I guess I am pretty slow in getting back to this. I'd like to claim I have been too busy but that wouldn't be entirely true. Lazy would probably be more accurate.

Thanks Christopher. It is a great compliment to even be compared at all to Billy Joel. And you're right, this is pretty repetitious. Every stanza really says more or less the same thing or at least presents a very similar thought. I remember a couple of years ago there were several acrostic sestinas around. Did you actually write one of them or did you just "think about it?"

Thanks Hush. I knew this would not be one of your favorites and I am glad you were able to get through it. Thanks for your suggestions too. I'm afraid I am still too much of a traditionalist to give up the meter but I think you are having some success in convincing me to not capitalize every line, at least in this case. So maybe you are making some progress with me. BTW, your critiques are always helpful, even the negative ones.

Ashley, I guess it would depend on your viewpoint, what you have missed. In either case, it's good to see you back. We have missed you around here. Thanks for your comments. You seem to be saying pretty much the same things as Hush, which is not a surprise. As for delving deeper into the subject matter, I don't know. I see your point about the "broad statements" and have to agree with you. I started with a handful of words and a basic concept, and to form of course. The rest just sort of fell into place. If you had been there I think it would have brought back some vivid memories. But then you would have to be a lot older than you are. And that probably wouldn't be so good.

Thanks,
Pete

Christopher

Moderator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-08-02

Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration

5 posted 2002-04-24 01:56 PM

well Pete, i wasn't necessarily comparing you to Billy (teasing)

this does have a bit of that flavor... one of the things that has made the man my #1 favorite singer of all time.

no, i wish i would have just thought of it - i've done two sestinas in my life (both quite a while back when i thought i might have some talent doing 'form' poetry... haha) here's for laughs: /pip/Forum20/HTML/000306.html

yours is MUCH better.

peace

C

18
Junior Member

since 2007-03-28

Posts 25

6 posted 2007-04-15 01:43 PM

hey how do i delete my stuff off this site?

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

7 posted 2007-04-15 08:33 PM

If you just want to remove a poem, I can do it for you if it has no responses. If you want all your poems removed, I can request an administrator to do it. That usually results in your username being removed along with all posting privileges. You usually will not be allowed to sign up again later either.

Let me know what, if anything you want removed.

18
Junior Member

since 2007-03-28

Posts 25

8 posted 2007-04-17 11:45 PM

yeah take me off

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

9 posted 2007-04-18 08:43 PM

Sorry 18. I submitted your request and it has been denied. Your posts will have to stay.

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