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Religious What?
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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Religious What? |
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BROTHER JOHN Member
since 2006-04-06
Posts 386 |
I hope this is the direction you are pointing, Moonbeam. It is far from perfect, but here I go. The shadows of night slowly slouched across The yawning day. Within my cryptic dream, I strolled in a religious academe And noted, innocent cross after cross. By each, the faithful stood with leading boss And cheered, "Our trek to truth's the sole supreme Way to God. The Lord blesses our rites' scheme Alone, while erring ones consumed by dross!" I listened to each, but I heard a word Within me. Mesmerized and wonder-struck, This strange word seemed misplaced and so absurd. This heavy noun speaks of freight; but why stuck On it? And quietly the voice I heard, "Each group owns baggage and drives a large truck!" [This message has been edited by BROTHER JOHN (08-13-2008 10:04 PM).] |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
I had a comment ready to post, Brother John, but I see you've edited your poem and changed lines I was going to address. Oh well, guess I wasted my time. |
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BROTHER JOHN Member
since 2006-04-06
Posts 386 |
Dear Jennifer, Bless you. I wish I had your talent for writing. Yes, you will get your wish in writing and even more. You have been kind and helpful to me. BJ |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Will you be kind and helpful and stop editing your original post? It really is very annoying and confusing.  Seriously, BJ, while you're waiting for someone to comment maybe work on your revisions and just hold on to them? If you've got a clunker line in your original that you regret, don't worry about it. We all write clunkers and laugh about them later. At least I do. Have a good evening! |
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BROTHER JOHN Member
since 2006-04-06
Posts 386 |
Dear Jennifer, Too,I see your point. The suggestion may be better. Thanks. BJ |
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BROTHER JOHN Member
since 2006-04-06
Posts 386 |
A rewrite The dawning shadows of night slouched across The yawning day. Within my cryptic dream I strolled to a religious academe And noticed innocent cross after cross. By each, the faithful stood with holy gloss And cheered: "Our trek to truth's the sole supreme Way to trod. Heaven blesses our rite's scheme By making us your earthly saintly boss." I listened to each, but I heard a word Within me. Mesmerized and wonder-struck, This strange word seemed misplaced and quite absurd! This heavy noun bears freighted weight of yuk! Again the whisperings within I heard: "Each group owns baggage and drives a huge truck!" signature--> |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I will keep my comments toward the mechanical aspects of this poem. The only things I would recommend are looking more carefully at the meter. The stress of the word night sticks out too much to be a sixth syllable (where there should be no beat). The opposite happens with a in the third line. The a lacks too much stress to make the beat that you need for that syllable. See the below adjustment for stanza first. The "B" is the beat. B B B B B Nightshadows slouched across the yawning day, B B B B B While I enwrapped within a cryptic dream B B B B B Had wandered to a giddy academe B B B B B And noticed cross by cross unguilty lay. Notice how the stresses of words are put where the meter asks for a beat. The only minor exception is the kind we spoke about earlier. The word "to" doesn't have normal stress, but since it is fairly important to the sentence-structure it acts as if it were a stress, adapting right into beat of the meter. The other thing I did was make sure a word such as "across" is not at the end of a line making it dependant on the first word of the next line. Instead it flows nicely in its own line. And the abrupt period that was in the middle of the road in the second line is done away letting the traffic stream through without interruption. I hope this imprints the importance of these thing better into your remembrance. If you make sure to follow them your sonnets shall read much more smoothly and strongly. |
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BROTHER JOHN Member
since 2006-04-06
Posts 386 |
A Rewrite. Ess, I think you are saying that the main nouns and action verbs need to fall under the stressed beat when possible. This rewrite is an attempt, in this satire, to do so. I repeat, an attempt. Thanks for your time and patience. If I am understanding you, this is a major insight to me. Nightshadows slouched across the yawning day When I, enwrapped within a cryptic dream, Had wandered to a giddy academe And noticed cross by cross unguilty lay. Each faithful clan enambored in array By crosses chosen, sang: "Our rite's supreme, With heaven's blessings!" Some in fainting scream Soon rocked, while others rolled in childlike play! I listened to each, but I heard a word Within me. Mesmerized and wonder-struck, This strange word seemed misplaced and quite absurd. This heavy noun bears freight and often stuck In traffic. Whisperings again I heard, "Each group owns baggage and drives a huge truck!" [This message has been edited by BROTHER JOHN (08-14-2008 04:58 PM).] |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
quote: I don't think that's quite what Ess was saying but similar. Nouns and verbs have to fall where the natural stress is right. The main point was that rarely can you have those "little" words, prepositions and articles especially, receiving main stress. That is words such as of, the, a, an, to, etc. In spoken language these words rarely receive stress naturally. The same applies to poetry. That said, your rewrite comes much closer so I think you are beginning to get a feel for meter. That is always more important and useful than any specific rules. For example, here is how I would scan your rewrite. Upper case represents stress. NIGHT SHAD / dows SLOUCHED / a-CROSS / the YAWN / ing DAY when I, / en-WRAPPED / with-IN / a CRYP /tic DREAM, had WAN / dered TO / a GID / dy AC / a-DEME and NO / ticed CROSS / by CROSS / un-GUIL / ty LAY. each FAITH / ful CLAN / en-AM / bored IN / ar-RAY By CROS / ses CHO / sen, SANG: / "our RITE'S / su-PREME, with HEA / ven's BLES / sings!" SOME / in FAIN / ting SCREAM soon ROCKED, / while OTH / ers ROLLED / in CHILD / like PLAY! I LIST / ened to EACH, / but I HEARD / a WORD with-IN / me. MES / mer-IZED / and WON /der-STRUCK, this STRANGE / WORD SEEMED / mis-PLACED / and QUITE / ab-SURD. This HEA / vy NOUN / bears FREIGHT / and OF / ten STUCK in TRAF / fic. WHIS / per-INGS / again I HEARD, "each GROUP / owns BAG / gage and DRIVES / a HUGE / TRUCK!" All right, that looks a lot messier than it really is. As you can see, most lines have 5 iambic feet. That is 5 da-DUMs. That makes them iambic pentameter, the preferred meter for a sonnet. Some of the lines to don't appear to be IP, at least as I have scanned them, are still quite acceptable as is. For example in S1L1, I scanned the first foot as a spondee. That is 2 stressed syllables. Obviously you can't use a lot of these without sounding like a loud monotone. They can be quite effective for emphasis, most often used to begin a stanza. I like the way you have done it here. Of course, a less agressive reading could just have easily scanned the line as true IP. S2 is perfect but you'll notice another spondee in S3L3. Again, this line could be scanned as pure IP but it just reads better with that spondee in the middle. The 3 stressed syllables in a row again makes for strong emphasis and, to me anyway, seems perfectly appropriate. S3L1, however, has a problem related to thos "little" words. I assume you would like to scan it as: i LIST / ened TO / each BUT / i HEARD / a WORD Notice how that causes a completely unnatural stress on to. That is not acceptable. Then dropping the stress on to moves it to each, which is natural. That then naturally causes the reader to unstress but thereby reducing the line to only 4 feet of mixed meter. That can't work here. In S4L2, ings must be stressed for the meter to work and in normal speach it would not be. Here, however, the reader is already firmly entrenched in IP and naturally stress that small syllable enough to satisfy the desire for metric perfection. Although this is a little weak, an occasional substitution is still acceptable but only when the IP has been strong enough for the reader to read it without stumbling. Finally, the last line is just hopeless. My feeble attempt to scan is really not sufficient. There is no meter to it. I hope this along with Ess's advice will help you to understand or get a feel for meter. When you get where you naturally feel this stuff, it will just all come quite naturally for you. It looks like you are getting quite close. Pete |
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BROTHER JOHN Member
since 2006-04-06
Posts 386 |
Thanks for your help, Not A Poet. I never realized I was way off in meter scanning. I thought each syllable carried the same value. It seems that verses 3 and 4 contain the most errors. I have rewritten them as follows: Vs. 3 "I overheard each. From within a word, And loudly said, a simple word which struck My mind and sounded utterly absurd." Vs.4 "This heavy 'word' bears freight and often stuck In traffic. Whisperings once more I heard, "Each group owns baggage and needs a semi-truck!" Or: "Each group owns baggage, needing a semi-truck!" I am not sure of "from" in vs. 3. nor of "a" in the last line. This a gives this line 11 beats. Thanks! BJ [This message has been edited by BROTHER JOHN (08-14-2008 10:02 PM).] |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
BJ You've had some good feedback on meter, so I'll just let you know briefly what I feel about the poem. Your message is straightforward, the hypocrisy of "man-made" religion, and each faction's blinkered inability to see beyond its own selfish worldly interests which are promoted in the name of the "true" path to salvation. The first thing to say is you've hit on another "difficult" theme. I say difficult, because it's very hard to write about this sort of thing without coming off in a way which is likely to turn off your readers. The risk is high that the speaker will sound either: Like he's on a personal crusade or rant Like he's being preachy Like he's being sarcastic or judgemental Like he's self important etc The problem with your poem for me is that the speaker is setting himself up as a judge of these other religions. In itself that wouldn't be disastrous, but unfortunately the speaker takes this stance with no lesser authority than that of the Almighty Himself. So here we have this guy strolling along the line of religions, with as it were, his personal earpiece to God, quietly guiding him. Because of this many readers will immediately mentally shunt the speaker in with the other faiths he is castigating as simply another claimant to the possession of a "line to the divine". If this happens, as I suppose it did with me, the poem loses any claim to seriousness that it might have had. At a more technical level the poem is suffering from that old problem we have discussed before, your need to Rhyme! No where is this more apparent than in the use of the word "boss", which for me jars in context. But there are also several other instances where the syntax has been contorted or filler words used simply to try and maintain the sonnet form. Another problem is that, I suspect because you are concentrating so much on maintaining the sonnet, you are still not really producing the interesting writing and imagery, of which I am sure you are capable. There's just too much vagueness and abstraction to make one want to sit up and take notice. Let's look at it: The shadows of night slowly slouched across The yawning day. >>> "Yawning day" is for me perhaps your best idea in the whole poem >>> "Shadows of the night" - well BJ, if I wanted to be naughty, I'd say that no wonder the day is yawning, following a howling cliche like that. To open the poem with "shadows of the night" sounds a death knell! Within my cryptic dream, >>>Cryptic dream is about as vague, and well, cryptic as they come. I strolled in a religious academe >>> "A religious academe" - again, vague, what is it, where is it - humm, no picture at all. And noted, innocent cross after cross. >>>"And noted" ! - Noted!? - this sounds like a lecture. What a very weak verb BJ. By each, the faithful stood with leading boss >>> "the faithful" - again vague, a cop out, who are they, what do they look like, smell like? "Leading boss" is horrible, and don't bosses always lead? Superfluous filler. And cheered, "Our trek to truth's the sole supreme Way to God. The Lord blesses our rites' scheme Alone, while erring ones consumed by dross!" >>>Not one single image in this passage. "Rites' scheme" sound to me nonsensical, scheme has been inserted to maintain the rhyme scheme. Yes?! I listened to each, but I heard a word Within me. Mesmerized and wonder-struck, This strange word seemed misplaced and so absurd. >>>Again, abstraction - vague abstract nouns like mesmerized and wonder-stuck draw a blank. Don't TELL us you are mesmerised, SHOW us! This heavy noun speaks of freight; but why stuck On it? And quietly the voice I heard, "Each group owns baggage and drives a large truck!" >>>A concrete image at last in the final line, but it's the same out of place diction as "boss". Would God really speak in a quiet voice using a metaphor like that! To me it sounds vaguely comic. I know my comments will probably dishearten you BJ, and I've been hesitating to post them for the past few days. I'm doing so, mainly because I hope that you might be persuaded to step back a little and think less about the message and sentiments you are trying to convey and more about HOW you are going to convey them. All the passion and all the clever ideas in the world are no use if you can't use language to get them over to your readers' in a way that will SHOW them what you mean. I really think you'd do well to think about writing without rhyme for a while and possibly even just some small descriptive prose pieces, concentrating hard on making brilliant images and using strong active verbs. I don't know what poetry handbooks you have right now, but the Kowit book I mentioned in the Musel thread is really great for channelling your writing into productive directions. Best. M |
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BROTHER JOHN Member
since 2006-04-06
Posts 386 |
Dear Moonbeam, I thank you for your most constructive remarks. The rewrite was a little softer in places. This is a satire and that alone. Sometimes they do come across the wrong way. You are so right in most of your remarks and I am the better for your time and interest in me. As I have said, I am retired and late in life I began to see the power of poetry. I post in CA for help. These remarks are helpful. I am working on a story form now with blank verse. Again, it is a try. Blessings on you. BJ PS The plot for this poem was given in a dream. I walked into a mall and not a place of learning. I changed mall to academe to fit the scheme I was using. Yes, I am slowly seeing the value of blank verse. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
BJ Just in case there is any confusion: Blank verse - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blank_verse as distinct from: Free verse - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_verse I think however that ultimately the form or style that you write in is secondary to originality and freshness of expression. Put a lot of effort into: producing clear and vital images using strong verbs using concrete nouns to SHOW not vague or abstract nouns which merely TELL cutting out unnecessary adjectives and adverbs Look at this recent poem for an example of creativity, inventiveness and fun: /pip/Forum84/HTML/004058.html I am not saying you should write this, god knows I certainly can't. But that's a great example of vivid images, vibrant alive writing, originality! All the best. M |
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