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BROTHER JOHN
Member

since 2006-04-06

Posts 386

0 posted 2008-07-31 12:17 PM

Before the universal cosmic state,
Vast pregnant thought of possibilty
Awaited in a timeless mystery
For birth, (corralled, poised at time's starting gate).

Then a bang! Riders rode unearthly straight
Across the sky's unfolding pageantry
On sizzling hot hoofs! Riders breaking free
With blazing speed, stretched their steed's endless gait.

With pluming passionate hearts,riders race
Amid the Milky Way's vast womb and pyre
And ever riding at breath-taking pace!

Some riders sprint by Terra to inspire
Earthly wayfarers, who live by grit and grace;
And loving earthly riders . . . kindle fire!

BROTHER JOHN
Member

since 2006-04-06

Posts 386

1 posted 2008-07-31 12:29 PM

Dear Moonbeam,

You have spent valuable time with me on this, as well as Bob. There are others who need your advice. I would like to post another, so let's move on. I am sure there is need for improvement on this. Already I have learned for your expertise and I thank you. Blessings on you. BJ

chopsticks
Senior Member

since 2007-10-02

Posts 888
The US,

2 posted 2008-07-31 02:03 PM

“ There are others who need your advise ”

Dear John, Moonbeam has spent a lot of time with me recently and I will gladly forgo any more of her time she plans to spend with me in your interest..

Btw, I like your poem, but I don’t think the riders ever rode beyond the milky way .

BROTHER JOHN
Member

since 2006-04-06

Posts 386

3 posted 2008-07-31 02:39 PM

Dear Chopsticks,

I have been thinking about your remark on comets not flying beyond the MW or across the MW. I think a better way to word this would be amid and this would be more factual. Thanks for making me think! BJ

Bob K
Member Elite

since 2007-11-03

Posts 4208

4 posted 2008-07-31 04:13 PM

Dear Brother John,

          You're still not reading other modern poets.  Nor are you thinking about them.  As a result the poem really hasn't changed very much.  One of the things you would begin to get a sense of from such a reading is the sense of what's called voice in poetry.  This element is not quite so evident in the more traditional models that I believe you are using.  It's something taken over from drama, I believe, since Browning, and I think it's changed poetry in some major ways.  It's most obvious in modern american poetry.  I gave you some references for formal poets who make use of it yesterday.  It carries over into free verse, much of it.

     Related to voice is stance, which is, I suppose, almost the tone in which that voice is expressed.  Vocabulary doesn't help you out unless you take a shot at actually reading and thinking about the stuff, too.

     These are concepts you don't need to use or agree with in your writing, but exposure to them and how other people use them gives you an understanding of some of the technical problems that people are wrestling with. It may help focus your own work and give you some sense of who you're talking with, who's on the other end of the poem out there, as opposed to who might have been out here a hundred or a hundred and fifty years ago.

     I can tell you that you've shuffled words around.  That's to the good.  I can tell you that you've played a bit with physical concepts around the way the universe was constructed or is constructed in line with a modern concept.  Great!  There is some extra work put into a concrete presentation, though you are still way overloaded with oxymorons and adjectives in general.  All of this stuff is to the good.  So is the increased visual element here.

     But you need to be reading other published modern writers.  Since your interest is formal, these should focus on the more formal modern writers, though I wouldn't limit myself.  Try Weldon Kees.  John Berryman has a sonnet sequence that's a bit too Shakespearean for my taste, but some of his early work is indeed formal and good.  Theodore Roethke wrote both formal and free verse, and his formal verse stands up very well indeed.
Almost all of Auden is formal, and some of his early sonnets are still masterworks no matter how you look at them.  Look at how these guys put their poems together. Look at the way they talk.  Read their stuff out loud.  Listen for what you love, and try to get a feel for why you love it.  Bring that back to your own work.  Make it part of you.  You're attracted to it because it has something that you need for your own development as a writer.

     Stanley Kunitz kept writing very fine stuff till he was over 100 years old, and he kept growing the whole time.  You don't have to be Stanley Kunitz, but there's nothing wrong with an example like his either.

BobK.

[This message has been edited by Bob K (07-31-2008 09:22 PM).]

moonbeam

Member Elite

since 2005-12-24

Posts 2356

5 posted 2008-07-31 06:08 PM

Thanks for your kind comments John. I agree that this is probably about as far as you can usefully take the piece, and I also agree with Bob that you might spread your wings a little!

Just one other point. You mention about posting another poem, nothing wrong with that, but remember that this is a workshop: it relies for its success on people commenting on poems and discussing them as well as posting them! If you think you don't have the expertise to talk about others' writing think again! Nothing "expert" needed, just your honest response as to whether you like something or not, and crucially, try and say precisely WHY.

You may be very surprised to see how much you learn from a close reading of other work.

M

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