»
Archives
»
Critical Analysis #2
»
Roethke: My Papa's Waltz
| Critical Analysis #2 |
|
Roethke: My Papa's Waltz |
|
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Read Listen The poem begins: quote: It's a short poem but I'm not sure of the copyright so I'll just leave it as a link. The beauty of this poem, its multiple uses of waltz and its rhythmic application of a waltz have often been mentioned. At the same time, however, other readers often react to the father as a child abuser. Uh, yeah. My point being that I don't think the poem reaches its full effect until one can see the two of these ideas working to enhance each other. It is only then that a fuller picture of father and child is recognised -- and mother even if she doesn't exactly seem to be center stage. If you're reaction tends toward one or the other (or if you have another one, I'd love to hear it), I would suggest that you read the poem again, it captures something of the difficulty of a relationship, any relationship worth having, and the middle ground between nostalgic sentimentality and television-inspired ethical posturing. 'cuz it ain't real if you don't.  [This message has been edited by Brad (04-05-2008 12:30 AM).] |
||
| © Copyright 2008 Brad - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
Seoulair Senior Member
since 2008-03-27
Posts 807Seoul S.Korea |
Roethke intended to write poem of describe a scene. I first instinct of this poem was telling a good father. A father's love. He might wrote a true story or an imagination because he lost his father at 15. Or he wrote a story of other people. I did not read out a father of child abuse. And it is a pleasant read. |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
No need of cussing And raising all hell . We know you’re drinking By the way you smell . Brad here’s one from about a hundred years ago. I don’t know who wrote it ;but I take no claim for it . It is child abuse for a child to deal with a drunken father in anyway. I know this 8 year old that thinks he is the cause of his father's drinking. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
And the battle line is drawn once again. |
||
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Thanks for posting this, Brad. Been a while since I’ve read Roethke, time to read a few again. Thanks for the reminder. What I get from this poem is more roughhousing than abuse, though I do think Roethke intended to show that in a way, he felt overpowered by his father and that perhaps his father’s actions, meant to be signs of affection, sometimes were a bit crude, ie, that Papa’s Waltz was more like a demolition derby than a dance. Just seems to me Roethke would have used a much stronger word than “romped” if he’d wanted to show intentional abuse. And certainly he’d know any mother would show more of a reaction than a mere frown if she were watching her child being abused. I can, however, accept that she’d frown if it was just a case of Dad with a buzz on roughhousing with the boy, perhaps anticipating the havoc their rowdiness would cause in her kitchen. I’m going to step out on a limb and say that perhaps “clinging to your shirt” sort of indicated that, though Roethke thought the Dad was a bit crude in his show of power and affection, he appreciated the “fabric” of the man. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Child abuse is old as the hills, but the modern concern with it probably wasn't one of Roethke's. Roethke was very much concerned with being a tough guy in his personal life, though he never actually was one. He made up stories about himself and his glories, including his relationships with gangsters. He was always a bit self-conscious about being a poet, as if that made him less than tough, less than male. In reality he was pretty fragile after his early thirties, and regularly had to be taken to locked psych units for treatment of what seem to have been manic episodes. His Department head at The University of Washington understood what a wonderful resource he had in Roethke as a poet and a teacher and went to bat for him regularly. Roethke's dad was not clearly defined as an alcoholic in the standard biography, The Glass House. He was very much characterized as a germanic perfectionist. Prussian, if I remember correctly. The greenhouse had an almost mystical attraction for Roethke and the theme runs through his poetry throughout his career. It almost always signals renewal, regeneration and rebirth. I've always felt that the man's poetry has been a sort of monument to the healing power of poetry in life. It certainly seems to have helped Roethke keep his life together, and to give it force, velocity and direction in the face of terrible mental illness. Roethke is one of the poets I look to when I feel the need for some sort of spiritual grounding and for an expression of joy in the midst of trial. Few poets have captured joy so honestly and directly as Roethke does in such poems as "I knew A Woman Lovely in Her Bones." No one but Dylan Thomas has written a villanelle as fine as "I wake To Sleep." "My Papa's Waltz" is one of the best short lyrics in the language. Fresh and modern yet as fine as anything by Herbert, it refuses to be boxed into any neat package for categorization and disposal. For such a small poem, it seems disturbingly larger than any of us. |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Child abuse is subjective and is modified by personal views and experience, that is why the guilt of child abuse is always settled by a court. The poem is to me child abuse. The only saving for the father was that the SMALL boy modified his dizziness with COULD. THE SMALL BOY HUNG ON LIKE DEATH AND IT WAS NOT EASY. Btw, the only part of the poem I have ever read or for that matter heard of is what Brad posted above. I really don’t want to read a poem about a drunken father’s child abuse. I see it in real life all the time . |
||
|
eminor_angel Member
since 2003-05-22
Posts 323Canada |
I think this at least implies child abuse. Chopsticks, what do you do for a living? I'm a guessing social work, from your comment. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Chopsticks, I'm sorry that you're so much exposed to child abuse. Most of us have only limited experience of it. Being reminded of it can be close to unbearable. I first ran across this poem in the early sixties. The reading I gave it at the time, outside our current era which tends to see child abuse even in places where it does not exist (and has the virtue of seeing the reality of it in places where we were blind to it before, I must acknowledge) was otherwise. At that time, I saw the small boy being brought up into the world of rollicking adult men and their pleasures for a few bewildering moments. Those would include drinking, dancing and horseplay with each other and a willingness to put aside the strict rules of work and formality. Roethke's Papa was a Prussian with rules of Prussian strictness much of the time for how things were supposed to have been managed in his flower business and in his greenhouses. The mother's disapproval I read back in the sixties and still read today as a woman's disapproval of coarse male behaviors, circa 1900-1910 in Michigan. Much of the boy's confusion I though came from the confusion of being bounced between worlds of expectation, women's expectation of good-boy behavior for their sons, the usual expectation of Prussian fathers for alles korect behavior in the workplace, and the momentary breakthrough of biergarten behavior at the end of a hard work week. I could almost hear the oom-pah of the german band that was probably going in fantasy in papa's imagination (Was it "Otto?" Too long, I don't remember). Sure, child abuse is one possible reading, but an unlikely one; we must not forget Roethke's life-long fantasy of running with what he called "the roaring boys," a phrase lifted from the Elizabethans. It meant the carousers, the party guys. In the twenties, when he was in college, Roethke wore a raccoon coat and owned a hip flask, which he was hard pressed to keep filled. And Chopsticks, if you find this poem too disturbing for you, Roethke has loads of others that are joyful. He's to my mind one of the few modern poets who's actively concerned with transcendence and joy, perhaps because of his personal experience with pain, and his poems about love and joy are some of the best in the language. All my best, BobK. |
||
|
Robert E. Jordan Member Rara Avis
since 2008-01-25
Posts 8541Philadelphia, Pennsylvania |
Brad, There is no abuse in "My Papa's Waltz". If it had been a "girl", perhaps it could be considered abuse. However, it's a boy. In addition, the kid is "hanging on like death":..."Still clinging to your shirt." Boys in this country are supposed to be rough, and tough. It's part of the basic training. Getting them ready to fight. It's very much a part of the culture. I've boxed with my Grandfather when I was a kid, he taught me how to fight, and I have wrestled with my own boys. Bobby [This message has been edited by Robert E. Jordan (04-04-2008 06:45 PM).] |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I do not understand the need to domesicate the poem. R. Jordan, America as Sparta? Bob, Poetry as biography? Chops, Read the poem, you may end up agreeing with the others. Nevertheless, your own example of a child who takes the blame for his father's drinking is precisely the point I'm trying to make. Children love despite what is done for them and that love should not be denied. Are we still stuck in confessional mode or do so many identify with a few words in the poem that they have to domesticate it, tame it for their own peace of mind. As far as I can tell, Jennifer is the only one that addressed the actual poem. Her argument concerning 'romp' and 'unfrowned' made me stop for a second. Unfortunately, I also see the speaker of the poem as a child who might very well mimic the words a father used the next day in explaining away his actions the previous night. The power of the poem comes from the presence of two apparent threads that are completely at odds with each other. This is what gives it its strength: quote: I agree and yet the more people attempt to deny the darker side, the more I begin to wonder if the only reason Roethke used 'death' in S1 is that it rhymed with 'breath'. What exactly does 'hung on like death' mean in a world where the father is not drunk, there only dancing, and nobody gets hurt? What does it do for the poem when the argument for pain is that 'that's just the way we do things around here'? |
||
|
Robert E. Jordan Member Rara Avis
since 2008-01-25
Posts 8541Philadelphia, Pennsylvania |
Excuse me for living. Bobby |
||
|
Seoulair Senior Member
since 2008-03-27
Posts 807Seoul S.Korea |
quote: Have you ever played with your children when they were 7-8 months and saw how they grabs your shirt? have you even let them to have a piggy back ride? try it. You will learn how they grab you.(if you are dad, of course  ) |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Why should I do that? quote: But all this tells me is that you see it as another way of saying, 'held on tight' and that the only reason he used 'death' is that it rhymed with 'breath'. Perhaps this is true. I don't know. I do know that such a reading also significantly diminishes the kind of power that 'hung on like death' holds for me. Immediately, in the form of a simile, we are placed in a situation that is somehow death-like. That means something to me. Rather than trying to reconcile the two disparate threads, why not see them concurrent and contradictory in the mind of a child? Yes, I'm repeating myself. |
||
|
Robert E. Jordan Member Rara Avis
since 2008-01-25
Posts 8541Philadelphia, Pennsylvania |
Brad, “My Papa’s Waltz” is very much a domestic poem. Roethke was troubled with alcoholism. Perhaps he‘s blaming his father for that in this poem. Who knows? Bobby |
||
|
Seoulair Senior Member
since 2008-03-27
Posts 807Seoul S.Korea |
quote: Very interesting. have you heard children complaining about the beast under his bed and closet? have you heard them screamed in thunder storms? have you heard that children say that they were sacred to be along in their one bedrooms? Their fear is true feelings but adults see it as unnecessary. Trusting or not trusting their father, when children be held and swung, it was their nature to cling tightly. (no because they sense death or related) my thought. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: That's an excellent point and one I hadn't considered. Yes, of course, it's a domestic poem. Sorry for the pun there. I just don't want it to be trapped. It should neither be caged in a prison of niceness nor captured in the specimen jar of social reform. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: I'm not sure where you're going here. I'm talking about the poem, not my daughter's fear/curiosity of dragonflies. |
||
|
Seoulair Senior Member
since 2008-03-27
Posts 807Seoul S.Korea |
Dear Brad, you asked me to read the poem as from a child's view. My answer still, from a child view, it might express fear but not in a sense of abuse. And death shall not be in a child's vocabulary on such condition. So Roethke did not write in a real child's voice. but rather in his imagination. |
||
|
Seoulair Senior Member
since 2008-03-27
Posts 807Seoul S.Korea |
re-read again. I indeed sense that the emotion was very strong because the rhyme of breath/death and the poem was not in very pleasant tune. It might change again when I read it again tomorrow morning with a cup of coffee. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Brad, Biography is one of the methods we have of illuminating poetry. If I have information to offer the discussion that might prove interesting or useful, the fact that it's biographical seems poor reason to exclude it. Biography is not the sole method of illuminating poetry, or we'd have considerably more trouble identifying poetry from non-poetry than we have already. Biography adds complexity and dimension to our understanding of those portrayed. It adds depth and shade to our understanding of a poet's accomplishment, and it gives hints of the personal elements that are used in a poet's work, their sources, their possible personal meanings, and the way the poet may have chosen to have used them in a particular situation. It is the reader's choice as to how the biographical information is used or misused. With some poets we have biographical information, with some poets we don't. Sometimes the information is reliable. Sometimes it isn't. If we don't have it or if the information is unreliable or if the information isn't the way we sometimes wish it to be, it is often the case that readers will consciously or unconsciously alter it to fit their purposes. Homer is whoever a particular group of readers seem to want Homer to be: Blind bard, group of singers over a period of time, a woman or series of women, fill in your blanks. Don't get me started about poor Shakespeare, about whom we've got at least a fair bit of information. Biography is important. It illuminates the work, it doesn't substitute for it. If the facts aren't close enough to the way people want them to be, they will alter or re-interpret the facts to fit their pre-conceptions. The more accurate the facts, the more useful. Biography doesn't substitute for text. Just thought I'd try to be clear about my thinking on the matter. I was afraid I was being misunderstood. As for not addressing the poem itself directly, I suggest you check out my paragraphs two and three of #8 response to this thread for the reading that I had originally and which I still believe is a good one. It was constructed before I had any biographical knowledge of Roethke at all. The biographical knowledge I've gotten since then from books and from conversations with at least one friend of Roethke haven't altered my reading. There are, I'm sure, others better or as good out there. But to say one wasn't offered is a mistake. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
While I was writing the following, there have been other comments, so if I repeat someone or didn't address a comment, forgive me--I took a moment to look at the poem by itself. It's the ambiguity that makes the poem work. It obviously provokes subjective reactions, and I like that about it. So, should I proceed to go ahead and do just that? I shall! We should start with the title, yes? My Pappa's Waltz It's personal right away, isn't it? To the author, anyhow. Right there is the only time that we, as the readers are acknowledged, because the poem itself addresses his father as Roethke places us in the position of voyeur. It's a glimpse into a moment that tells a story of two lives---and I love that sort of thing. The lack of the author's moralizing is refreshing. He leaves us to decide. He calls it a waltz. So here I go, subjective reader me, because for me, a waltz is a dance of grace. Then we proceed to read a description that conflicts with that --his father's grace was clumsy at best. Abusive? Well an absence of malice can reduce murder to manslaughter in a court of law, but this is poetry. Thank goodness. The line Brad questions is "But I hung on like death" and I don't see what's confusing about that. Death clings, and the fingers that it uses to cling to us is memory. And that is exactly what we're being served. I think more important is the first words of the second stanza: "We romped" Our author is a participant, he's not describing something being "done" to him; and the word romp implies "fun". Third verse, we're given the scene of "the crime" if we decide that one has been committed, and his mother is present, but not amused. And yet again, we have to decide for ourselves if she is annoyed by the "romp" or the fact that thier fun has apparently disrupted her domain. I opt for the latter. But (is it too confessional to say?) I am a woman. I own the kitchen. Don't mess with a woman's kitchen. Fourth verse--interesting that he detaches his father's hand, depersonalizing for the moment. It's an instant analysation of character, because the hand is "battered on one knuckle". We're left again to muse further--work? Or do we opt for the implied violence of a hand that is cut because of fighting? In either case, the detachment indicates a seperation from "Pappa" and the hard life that is indicated by his father's hand. But I think we're directed a bit with the next verse-- "You beat time on my head" Now here's where everybody's alarm bells go off. But the music is given in the title, and so I have to say "absence of malice". But I do view the line with admiration as there are so many ways to go with that one. And then there is the "palm"--it is a palm not a fist--and it's caked with dirt, like someone who has been laboring. Another titillating line, though. and to end it with these two lines? "Then waltzed me off to bed Still clinging to your shirt." Wow. Now if all we were given was that, we'd have a charming portrait of a relationship between parent and child. Since so much of this is subjective--I think that's what I'd like to take from the poem. Life is a hard dance and people are clumsy and imperfect, but love is. "Love is..."? Fill-in-the-blank? It's a good summation and sentence by itself. Love is. Thanks Brad. Another nice intro to a poet I'm not familiar with--yet. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
BobK? I'd like to address your point too. I am a habitual companion reader, which explains the chaos of books that I sleep in. I read Ginsberg's biography along side his collection as well. Same with Dickinson (long ago) and Dorothy Parker and a lot of others. If I love a poet--I wanna know everything about them. It really does help to put their work in an emotional context--just as studying anthropology and history have helped me while reading scriptural texts. Just a "my-two-cents" comment. thanks again, all! |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I just read the title. Next time, can someone just go ahead and point out that I goofed. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"Pappa's got a brand new Brad?" yeeeeeeeeeeeeeowwwwwwwwwwwww--HEH! *chuckle* |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“Child abuse cast a shadow the length of a life time” There are three major categories of child abuse sexual, physical, and mental. Most of you guys have been jumping on the physical abuse when to me it is clearly mental abuse . So I suggest you get off this physical abuse and get to the abuse suggested by the first two lines of the poem. Jordan suggested that it would be different if it was a girl, wrong again . |
||
|
Seoulair Senior Member
since 2008-03-27
Posts 807Seoul S.Korea |
The whiskey on your breath Could make a small boy dizzy; Chops, how did this show mental abuse of a child? MY father used to drink 120 proof alcohol and I certainly did not like the smell but he had never been drunk. Do you want to tell more? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
chops? I don't think that your point is invalid. It's a painful truth of the reality of the situation as described. But I think that the poem is most moving because Roethke reconciles this--and ultimately is at peace that while his Papa's "waltz" was not an ideally expressed parental love, it was the "grace" of their relationship. I see it as acceptance. My opinion is just my opinion. It in no way invalidates yours--but the fact that it is written (or even can be read) as such is lovely. I do agree with your general point of alcoholism present in the home is an abusive environment for child-rearing. I'll concede that the opening lines might allude to that, but ultimately I get a sense of triumph of peace with what "was" as opposed to resentment of "what wasn't right." The poem evolves, methinks, much in the way such forgiveness is granted. |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“Chops, how did this show mental abuse of a child?” Like the poet said, “ If you have to ask, you’ll never know “ The boy didn’t say, that he didn’t like the smell he said , it could make a SMALL boy dizzy. Btw, I didn’t say it is the worst case in history. This thread reminds me of the TV commercial where the man says, we couldn’t say it on TV if it wasn’t true. |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“I do agree with your general point of alcoholism present in the home is an abusive environment for child-rearing. chops? I don't think that your point is invalid. “ OK, you agree with my hypothesis , but not with my conclusion ? “The poem evolves, methinks, much in the way such forgiveness is granted.” With child or adult, “ It’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission ” Take a toy from a child and they will raise hell ;but give it back and say you are sorry and they will smile and forgive you, try it sometime. If it is the parent that took the toy, the child will think it was their fault that they took it. [This message has been edited by chopsticks (04-05-2008 09:27 AM).] |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And the child grows up and writes a poem? You are assuming much that is only hinted toward in the poem. It saddens me to think that perhaps your strong reaction to it says more about you than the poem. If you want to pursue the morality in question, I think a more general discussion forum is more appropriate. I've already addressed my point of view of the poem and how I came to the conclusion that I did--fairly plainly I think. If you want platitudes, I'd say that the only differences you and I have is whether the glass is half empty or half full. What I know is that someone whose glass is half-empty is probably thirstier. I like my take on it, and I'll stand by it-- and maybe someday I'll give the confessional viewpoint, but I don't even consider it important. Not in a poetry critique forum. I didn't say you were wrong, m'friend. I said it was subjective and gave my point of view. And that's all. Look--hands up--no weapons. K? Peace. |
||
|
Robert E. Jordan Member Rara Avis
since 2008-01-25
Posts 8541Philadelphia, Pennsylvania |
Chop... says: "Jordan suggested that it would be different if it was a girl, wrong again" Really--don't you think girls are set-up differently than boys. Girls in our society, are to be protected from reality in many ways. That may be unjust to the girls, but that's the way it is. Bobby |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“If you want to pursue the morality in question, I think a more general discussion forum is more appropriate.” Blaze, I apologize, I thought Brad wanted a discussion about the poem. Or is it ok to have an opinion just don’t have a strong one. I beg your pardon, I’m off for a glass of water. |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
" Really--don't you think girls are set-up differently than boys. " Yes I do, and long live that diffrent set up . But when it comes to child abuse, there is no difference . And I couldn't say that on here if it wasn't true . |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
 chops? You seem stuck on the first two lines. You offer no evidence that this is autobiographical and you want to pursue the issue that Theo and his poem here are the result of mental abuse created by living with an alcoholic father. There is simply nothing to support this-as for whether I agree with your conclusion--um, you don't seem to have any other one than the moralization of a drunk man dancing--no--"romping"--with his son before putting him to bed! Okay. Fine. Let us gather a lynch mob for Papa and go hang the dead guy.  Inexpletivecredible. |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“You offer no evidence that this is autobiographical “ I guess I am about child abuse like Judge Stewart was about obscenity ( I know it when I see it ) |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Address the poem. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Okay, you have one hour. If I see a response to this thread, it gets zapped. I wanted to watch a movie: "Beowulf" (the above does not apply to actual interest in the poem). |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Brad , you have a bad case of zappitis |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Yes, I do. Now, go complain to Ron that I'm not keeping my word. Seriously, the poem is what matters here. I'm not contesting your point or argument. It just should be placed in another forum. Everything else will be left as is. If the discussion starts here, it should be finished somewhere else. Is that okay? |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well. I guess I can watch the movie now. |
||
|
chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ And the battle line is drawn once again. “ Brad, this is the third post to this thread, your post. I know when I have been out clicked and I will post no more . |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
I started reading Roethke’s collected poems again yesterday and appreciated them much more than when I read them a couple of years ago probably because I now have more of an understanding of how finely crafted they are. I was particularly impressed by his use of rhyme and enjambment. Also picked up Karl Malkoff’s Intro to Roethke’s Poetry this morning at the library. Started reading it and was pleasantly surprised to find on page 3 that the author talks about My Papa’s Waltz. Malkoff has sort of the same take on it as I did. Here is what he says referring to Otto, Theodore’s father: “a Prussian though and through, was strong and firm, the personification of Ordnung, but this strength was, for his son, a source both of admiration and fear, of comfort and restriction”. He goes on to say, “his father’s mixture of tenderness and brutality comes across clearly” in the poem, My Papa’s Waltz. Anyway, though I haven’t gotten very far in Malkoff’s book, it seems like a worthy read. I also ordered Roethke’s bio by Allan Seager via interlibrary loan. Like Bob, I find reading a poet’s bio often gives you an added insight on their work. An aside note - When the topic of child abuse was mentioned, what popped into my mind was Sexton’s “Red Roses”. I actually pulled out her collection I have and read it again. What I noticed right off, and no offense to Anne, but she sure as heck didn’t know the craft as well as Roethke. Reading her work after reading his, made hers seem like an abysmal failure. Confessional, certainly - poetic, well, not hardly. Just my opinion. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thank you Jennifer for the additional commentary. I find that most helpful This poem truly is depth and wonder. The terrible and the tender side by side... I enjoyed your input on it, and I will certainly be reading more. Didn't mean to ignore you, so a huggy howdy to ya too!  |
||
|
Seoulair Senior Member
since 2008-03-27
Posts 807Seoul S.Korea |
If I read it without the title, If I read it as someone who I am very familiar with wrote this if I read it as a stranger's talking it gave all the different feelings. But as I expected, when I read it this morning, it sounded again as a soft tuned poem of close-loving relationship in father-son type (not mother/daughter type of course) We do put our life experience into the understand of a read. It makes us feel more and deeper but sometimes the original meaning does get misguided. Since the author is dead, we can't have the truth. Or if he were still alive he might not want to tell. And poets do not usually follow "common sense". |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
