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A Bat in Flight
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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A Bat in Flight |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
A bat in flight comes near enough to see And turn away from father's mise-en-scène: The verdure and horizon clouds and then His speech concerning our stability. She had no interest in the sky or tree. An eagle screams a warning from a cliff― An omen of the coming time as if A bat and eagle knew what was to be. She runs from him and points to an insect, She rushes forward to what once was feared, And he stands there as helpless as a child, Excluded from her secret dialect, Confused and lost before his daughter's mild Rebellion toward the way she has been reared. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
HA ha ha. If this is a poem talking about your beloved little girl's growing and become more independent? Don't even need you to tie her shoelace and comb her hair? Poor father. You have the role of both king and slave, ya know!!!  either lead her or serve her I'll see if got this right. |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
How would it be different if you didn't have to reach for the rhymes. What would a free verse draft look like? This one looks like it actively suffers from the form. The meters feel a touch forced. The rhymes do too. I like formal verse, you know, but not for everything. On the other hand, what would happen if you laid out the rhyme words first—not the ones you have here—and wrote the poem around them? Would that loosen things up a bit? The poem needs to be clearer and more playful all at the same time. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Tom, I don’t think the father is concerned with his daughter’s independence he wants her to tie her shoe lace and comb her hair. It’s the rebellion he is concerned with. When the scene was set, I think there is a small blooper . |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Chops, if you are right, Sir Brad still exaggerated it. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
"Sir Brad still exaggerated it ” Tom, I think you are right; but that’s what poetry is all about . It’s the only game I know that can make a Raven show up at midnight. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Do you think this is a Sonnet? Not pure iambic right? Chops? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“Do you think this is a Sonnet?” Yes “Not pure iambic right? “ Right “ Chops? “ Maybe, let me go look in a mirror |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Chops, why did Sir Brad rushed out a im-perfect Sonnet? And what did you find in the mirror? Fine lined poem? |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear folks, The sonnet by Wyatt I hope I've provided a link to below has been considered one of the best poems in English for about 500 years. For those who think that a sonnet must be absolutely regular to be any good, this poem was great before whoever told you that was a gleam in their pappy's eye. If you look around, it's not alone. Absolute regularity can be nice, but it's often very very boring too. http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/2411.html This isn't my favorite poem of Brad's, but why not talk about the diction or the difficulty with the closing instead of whether his meter is regular or not? He can probably get the meter on his own. BobK. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“Chops, why did Sir Brad rushed out a im-perfect Sonnet?” I do the same thing. I don’t know about Brad ; but with me time is of the essences. Maybe, he is actually looking for help: The fourth line seems to be wrong with a third person narrative . I could be wrong , but I don’t think you’ll see an eagle and a bat at the same time. An eagle flies all day and parties all night. Poe had a raven show up at midnight, so why can’t Brad have a bat show in the daytime. Tom, in the mirror I found perfection . . |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
A bat in flight comes near enough to see Bat...can be a blessing or sigh of omen. And turn away from father's mise-en-scène:The verdure and horizon clouds and then Father's perfect world. But whose father, the bat's father? God or her father? His speech concerning our stability. His...whose? the bat's words or the father? The bat said something. What did he say? Our....who is Us? She had no interest in the sky or tree. Who is she? The daughter? An eagle screams a warning from a cliff― An omen of the coming time as if A bat and eagle knew what was to be. Who is the eagle? warning about what? an omen of danger to both day and night. She runs from him and points to an insect, She rushes forward to what once was feared, And he stands there as helpless as a child, Excluded from her secret dialect, Confused and lost before his daughter's mild Rebellion toward the way she has been reared. Father and daughter...father worries about daughter just like the bat and eagle worries about their young. There are predators day and night. But that can't stop a child going out to see the world. Chops, you must looked at a picture frame... |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I certainly appreciate the time you guys have put into this, but I'm still not sure what anybody is talking about yet. Yes, there are 'problems', some of them I did on purpose, but I don't know if that's what you're talking about. I don't hear them as problems so I wanted to see what the reaction would be. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Sir Brad, can be worse than this. You certainly know that we or I did not "get it" at all. Why give some clue? It is your poem and I could just ignore next time  You intentionally write problems. Ha, that has already integrated into your poem. Like sir Balladeer, war and far rhyme locally. I'll read again to find the problems. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Yes, there are 'problems', some of them I did on purpose, “ “ I'm still not sure what anybody is talking about. ” Brad, tell us what you did on purpose and we will tell you what we are talking about. If Tom agrees, then it’s a done deal. I assume you know what Bob is talking about |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, let's see: a BAT in FLIGHT comes NEAR eNOUGH to SEE And TURN aWAY from FAther's MISE-en-SCENE: The VERdure AND hoRIzon CLOUDS and THEN --comes -- demotion --and -- promotion I think one can mount a strong case that it should be 'turns' -- that gives the first two lines a lot more symmetry. 'and then' is kind of a flat rhyme but I wanted to be sure that the French phrase was read correctly so put it in there. His SPEECH conCERNing OUR sta-BI-li-TY. She HAD no INtrest IN the SKY or TREE. --One can argue that 'verdure' is more about bushes than it is about trees, but the vegetation is the frame and so tree seemed appropriate. --The structure here shamelessly owes a lot to Wordsworth's sonnet, "It is a beauteous evening": . . .the broad sun Is sinking down in it's tranquility; The gentleness of heaven broods o'er the sea. Note: I'm pretty sure that 'heaven' should be pronounced as one syllable here. She RUNS from HIM and POINTS to AN IN-SECT, ExCLUDed FROM her SEcret DI-a-LECT, Insect is an interesting word. The dictionary tells me that the stress is on the first syllable and sure enough if you emphasize it that's where it is -- INsect. If you put it on the second syllable, you have inSECT (I hear it in a French accent). When I say it naturally, however, I don't hear much of a difference between the two. My thinking then was to let the meter do some work. The stressed AN and the stressed position for SECT creates, I hope, a spondee. Interestingly enough, a few other dictionaries do in fact put a secondary stess on 'SECT' so I have some backing for what I hear. On the other hand, if you start sounding like a Frenchman, then it didn't work. I suspect that Bob didn't care for insect/dialect. It seems strained, I guess, because his kids don't predominantly speak in his third language. My daughter is also picking up Jeju dialect. I don't speak or hear that very well and it is a bit disconcerting. For the record though, the word I probably would have used is idiolect. He may have a point that if I took the idea out of the form, it might have been clearer. Now, these are the things I was worried about. Unfortunately, one of my weaknesses is that I spend so much time on one or two things that I am blind to incredibly obvious errors elsewhere. If you guys are talking about something else, I want to know about it. As far as the idea, Chops said what I was thinking. The speaker is the girl's older brother, the turn is from looking up to looking down. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Well, let's see: ” I do see and everything is copasetic. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I had to look that one up. The explanation doesn't or shouldn't change your reaction. So, what were you guys talking about? |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
I asked Chops on how much you have drunk for such a good poem with planed problems. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
They aren't planned mistakes, they are planned substitutions that are supposed to work a certain way. I just don't know if they do or not. Quite by accident I disovered this yesterday: Yeats: quote: Keats: quote: These two lines are quoted as examples of terminal trochaic substitution (from Poetic Meter/Poetic Form by Paul Fussel): KIND of OLD SCARE-crow OF the STILL MID-night Now, Fussel has a lot of interesting things to say, but I find his actual scansions to be nothing like what I hear. I hear spondees (or close enough that we might as well call it a spondee) here: SCARE-CROW MID-NIGHT It's the same trick I'm trying to pull here. My question is simply whether you hear a trochee, SCARE-crow, MID-night, or the bizzaro scare-CROW or mid-NIGHT (in-SECT). One mistake I may have made is giving 'an' more stress than it deserves. Talk to me, guys. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Gambol up the green hill, take your shirt off and spill whatever this is, it have a beautiful rhythm. A bat in flight comes near enough to see And turn away from father's mise-en-scène: The verdure and horizon clouds and then His speech concerning our stability. She had no interest in the sky or tree. An eagle screams a warning from a cliff― An omen of the coming time as if A bat and eagle knew what was to be. She runs from him and points to an insect, She rushes forward to what once was feared, And he stands there as helpless as a child, Excluded from her secret dialect, Confused and lost before his daughter's mild Rebellion toward the way she has been reared. There are many words like she; has; been; as; an even dialect can be stressed in different ways. Record your reading and let us hear how you stress them. You may call out Sir Balladeer to give a scan. He may have his local ways. I have no clue. I want to read the way i want. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
GAMbol UP the GREEN HILL, TAKE your SHIRT OFF and SPILL whatever this is, it have a beautiful rhythm. --This is much appreciated. I liked it too. Though, I think, it's much closer to a nursery rhyme than this one.And turn away from father's mise-en-scène: --Why not 'MISE' -- pronounce 'meese'? The verdure and horizon clouds and then --'and' should be promoted here. His speech concerning our stability. --'our' is also promoted. She had no interest in the sky or tree. Yes, I read 'interest' as two syllable. 'In' should be promoted. An eagle screams a warning from a cliff― -'from' is promoted. An omen of the coming time as if I read 'omen' as two syllable, stress on the first (otherwise it sounds like Jeju Korean to me). 'of' is promoted. Promotion doesn't seem to work for you, does it? A bat and eagle knew what was to be. Here you have a solid point. 'What' could be stressed here. It's kind of like "To be or not to be, that is the question" -- I suspect most readers read 'that' as stressed -- though you can read it regularly. My defense is simply that the line points to a kind of predictablity and it sounds better if read regularly. At any rate, promotion is that anytime there are three adjacent unstressed syllables, the middle one takes a mild stress. Not the same level as a strong stress and some would argue that it takes no stress at all (I can't hear that.). When it is used it's supposed to give a lighter feel to the poem. She RUNS from HIM and POINTS to an INSECT, I can read 'an' as stress or not, the points is that 'sect' is not unstressed here or at the very least, the reader should slow slightly. She RUSHes FORward to WHAT ONCE was FEARED, An alternate line is: she RUSHes FORward to WHAT was ONCE FEARED --I actually like that one better, I forget now why I changed it. and he STANDS THERE as HELPless AS a CHILD, --Some people will read these first two feet as two iambs (one light, one heavy). I don't care how you scan it. I think it sounds the same either way. ExCLUDed FROM her SEcret DIaLECT, ConFUSED and LOST beFORE his DAUGHTter's MILD Re-BEL-lion TOWARD the WAY she HAS been REARED. I read 'toward' as one syllable. And there it is. Nothing too wild here. |
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