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Critical Analysis #2
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John Ashbery's "My Philosophy of Life"
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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John Ashbery's "My Philosophy of Life" |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ashbery Ashbery must be the poster boy for some kind of clique. Again and again in mainstream magazines, I read 'the difficult poetry of John Ashbery' almost as if it were a set phrase. Popular science articles do the same thing with black holes. When was the last time you read a science article about black holes that didn't say something like, "the gravity is so strong that nothing can escape, not even light." And just as I wonder if the writer really understands or rather understands that we don't understand what black holes are, you begin to wonder how many writers who mention Ashbery have actually read Ashbery or have ever thought seriously about what they mean when they say, 'difficult'. On the other hand, I can't count myself as a fan, I haven't read enough of his stuff, I don't own a book of his poetry, he is simply sprinkled about the many anthologies I do own. "Finnegan's Wake" is difficult. "Gravity's Rainbow" is difficult. I read "My philosophy of Life", I hear "My philosophy of life", and I'm no longer sure what difficult means. It is readable, it is pleasant to the ear, and it lures the reader in with it's irony and allusions to everyday things. It makes fun of the stuffed shirts, of philsophies and rigid codes, of ourselves and others, and when did that not attract people? Maybe I'm missing something deeper here, maybe I just don't get it, but I find this particular piece to be enjoyable and light-hearted and accessible. And what's wrong with that? [This message has been edited by Brad (12-06-2007 05:04 PM).] |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
After I read something about him, I shall tell you if you get them or not.  And thank you for the introduction. Yours sincerely Tom |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Brad, I read the little philosophy-of-life piece you linked to your comment. I don't think Ashbery is "difficult" as a poet. He is very much a poet of surfaces. If that sounds pejorative, I don't intend it to sound that way. He is an art critic as well, with a focus on painting; think of surfaces in those terms. He's worked hard and successfully to get away from the more accentual elements in English prosody. My last information about his praxis (admittedly 20 plus years old) was that he wrote in English, translated into French, and then retranslated back into English. This I think accounts for some of the faint feeling of dislocation one may feel when reading him. When reading him, I've found it pays to think of his poetry as though it were painting and to look for texture and repetition of tone and juxtaposition rather than more sonic effects. His sentences tend to be of limpid clarity, sometimes long, sometimes short, almost always, though, clear as glacier water. I suspect that his poetry is supposed to sound the way French prose is supposed to sound to a Frenchman. Not being anywhere remotely close to adequate, let alone fluent, I can only guess. One particularly lovely poem is a very long list of rivers in France, with elegantly placed adjectives and adverbs. If you try to look at it for depth, you'll eat yourself alive; if you look at it as an extraordinary pointiliste poem, and appreciate it for its color and texture and shimmering and beautifully worked surface, you'll be more than pleased. Myself, I have a weakness for the illusion of depth and for many of the things he leaves out. But to deny myself the pleasures of Ashbery because I don't write his way would be a pity, don't you think? Some of his early work is also very funny. He has one sestina, for example, about the characters in Popeye that is a hoot. Late Joyce is difficult. Yeah! Gravity's Rainbow and The Crying of Lot 49 difficult? Yeah. Ashbery is painterly fun, not to everybody's taste, but on the whole, I don't think he's invested in being difficult at all. Thoughts? BobK |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
I said I would never mention Stevens' again, but googled Ashbury to find he did his thesis on "his favorite poet, Wallace Stevens." I also recall reading somewhere, not on this go round, that Ashbury was a slow and meticulous writer, agonizing over every word and comma. I also remember seeing him characterized as a "domestic" poet, whatever that might mean. As I read this and remember a few other poems, I recall him being dry and wry by turn. Critics of the textual analysis sort seem to have difficulty dealing with someone saying what they are saying, and make it difficult, because they can.  Jim |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Maybe I'm missing something deeper here, maybe I just don't get it “ Brad ditto on that. I can now say I read John Ashbery’s “ My philosophy of life.“ Like everybody else he has a philosophy and I have heard country singer’s with a more interesting philosophy. The janitor down at the bus station has a more interesting philosophy than Ashbery's. I ask Clyde this morning , what was his philosophy of life. He said, “ Get all the hay you can for your donkey “ who knows what that mean ; but unlike Ashbery’s philosophy it gives you something to ponder. I hope this helps. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, it looks like we almost had a consensus here. And then Chop talked. Chop, the whole 'I don't get it' thing was in reference to others calling his stuff difficult, not to the poem itself. I don't know. I read 'Philosophy of Life' as an ironic title and would have been very surprised, perhaps even disappointed, if he had in fact mapped out some sort of didactic tract. Or maybe he did? When I, you, we, anybody has time, let's talk about the poem a little more in detail. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Oh, if this wasn't clear, I posted this poem for discussion because I liked it. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ I posted this poem for discussion because I liked it .” I discussed with it with you because I didn’t like it. “ When I, you, we, anybody has time, let's talk about the poem a little more in detail. “ In my case we better get moving, time is of the essence. Btw, this reminds me of a poem of mine , I’ll see if I can find it. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
See new topic. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Sir Brad, The author is still alive. I hope that he is not Going to read what I write Which shall make him mad. I read some of his poems. With my untrained eyes and mind, he is a very poetic poet. No wonder he got so many awards which all fit the contemporary thoughts...free, free and free and go with the jumping of his thought. His poems, I shall say, superficial and talked about nothing but his poetic illusion which indeed is what theoretically a poet or poem should be like. His pen follows his illusion so close that it left no space for logic and and calculation which both may block the flow of his thought. he is a talented poet with words, but I do not like his poems. too superficial. "Just when I thought there wasn't room enough for another thought in my head, I had this great idea--call it a philosophy of life, if you will. Briefly, it involved living the way philosophers live, according to a set of principles. OK, but which ones?" play his thought but not at all about philosophy although he tried to logic it by say "the way of philosophers". Philosophers is all about thinking, not the style of living. "That was the hardest part, I admit, but I had a kind of dark foreknowledge of what it would be like. Everything, from eating watermelon or going to the bathroom or just standing on a subway platform, lost in thought for a few minutes, or worrying about rain forests, would be affected, or more precisely, inflected by my new attitude." Illusion based on philosophical ways. "I wouldn't be preachy, or worry about children and old people, except in the general way prescribed by our clockwork universe. Instead I'd sort of let things be what they are while injecting them with the serum of the new moral climate" Buddhism "I thought I'd stumbled into, as a stranger accidentally presses against a panel and a bookcase slides back, revealing a winding staircase with greenish light somewhere down below, and he automatically steps inside and the bookcase slides shut, as is customary on such occasions. At once a fragrance overwhelms him--not saffron, not lavender, but something in between. He thinks of cushions, like the one his uncle's Boston bull terrier used to lie on watching him quizzically, pointed ear-tips folded over. And then the great rush is on. Not a single idea emerges from it. " where "I thought I'd stumbled into"? I ask myself for more patience. Tom |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Not a single idea emerges from it. " And they said Reagan was the great communicator. Brad, we nit pick you because you are an exceptionally good poet. Just think what you would hear if we were after your hide , it wouldn’t be pretty. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: I could go on and on and on about some of the different points he touches, but the gist, to me, is simply that life is full of ideas and behaviour, thought and no-thought, philosophy and no-philosophy: the gaps are what makes your life interesting or more precisely you interesting. Derrida made a living out of explaining that philosophies can't really stand up to their own microscopic scrutiny. The other point that intrigues me here is that philosophers and the laymen, the scholars and their detractors are all in the same boat. They all have a 'philosophy', they all have ideas and if you pursue such things without realizing that such things are limiting as well as liberating, you just aren't going to have as much fun . . . Which is in itself a philosophy turning and turning in a widening gyre. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
"It's enough to disgust you with thought. But then you remember something William James wrote in some book of his you never read--it was fine, it had the fineness, the powder of life dusted over it, by chance, of course, yes still looking for evidence of fingerprints. Someone had handled it even before he formulated it, though the thought was his and his alone." remember something you never read? Life dust---should be time finger print --should be other's influence. but before he formulated it? (means that his(W.J) thought has no influence from other's at all. to me ..those are nonsense talking. but poetic words play and thought jumping. same as "do you remember the wish that I forgot to whisper to you?". |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Sir Brad, you are right. "I could go on and on and on about some of the different points he touches, but the gist, to me, is simply that life is full of ideas and behaviour, thought and no-thought, philosophy and no-philosophy: the gaps are what makes your life interesting or more precisely you interesting." Will you please go on and on and on. I want to know that the final 4 verses are not his jumping thoughts but a true description of life. Tom |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: In academic circles, William James is quoted quite a bit these days. It is unclear, however, if the quotes are meant to be taken in the context of where and when they were written or are simply used to bolster certain academic fashions today. In other words, he's quoted more than actually read. Derrida's the same way. This is the big one: quote: but more often than not: quote: or even quote: The funny part, at least to me, is that Ashbery then goes on to point out that Pragmatism is predicated on action first, thought second -- "Someone had handled it even before he formulated it" -- which would, on the face of it, contradict the whole basis of the poem. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
"My best writing gets done when I’m being distracted by people who are calling me or errands that I have to do. Those things seem to help the creative process, in my case." John Ashbery http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/a_f/ashbery/general.htm no wonder I felt that his thought was jumping. [This message has been edited by TomMark (12-13-2007 12:57 AM).] |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: I can't say I've ever read anything else by John Ashbery, but I didn't think this was particularly difficult to understand. Perhaps the "difficulty" was on his end in reaching the conclusion he reached. "What, me worry?" Enjoy the time in between deep thoughts. Don't take everything so seriously (especially yourself). Unlike "My Philosophy of Life," life's too short. Good poem. Jim |
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