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Mt. Halla
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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Mt. Halla |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me. Between the simple and the simplified, Before the reign of the Pacific sea, The chant commences with alacrity And everything I see's exemplified: Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me. It is a hillock bathed in symmetry, The tombs of kings in Kyungju modified Before the reign of the Pacific sea. The men contend for lost formality, That that and only that be glorified, Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me. The grass, the grave-protecting tarp, and she With son and daughters sway from side to side Before the reign of the Pacific sea. But of the man there is no memory Where artifice and nature coincide, Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me Before the reign of the Pacific sea. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi Brad! Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water, along comes this Jaws-ful. I've read it five times. It has shifted radically five times in a row. Talk about metaphor and metaphysics! It's gonna take me hours of thought, and I'm not sure if I can pin it down, or if it needs to be pinned down. I'll be tempted to start with the idea that Mount Halla, is both the consciousness and the reality in the poem, not the observer. Mt. Halla is always where it always is. Unless it blows up again. But I will try to avoid the temptation. Best, Jim  Bob Dylan: "There's something goin' on here, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?" |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
After my first five times read and the repeated first verse in my brain repeating itself through out my dinner (not joke), I can only say that those beautiful scenes are well calculated and formulated in your poem by two words, "simple" and "simplified" . =="Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me. Between the simple and the simplified, Before the reign of the Pacific sea," So, dear Brad, how do I read your words? " always", "Simple" and "simplified" has already take your first stanza out of reality to an abstract form....But you forbid me to think more. SO I have to stop here. why do you have to treat a beautiful Jeju like this  and if Mr. Halla's were such a silent figure because its head was out somewhere as Mt.Sanbong. I'll write more.[This message has been edited by TomMark (12-01-2007 12:07 AM).] |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
The first line is the chant, and the teaser-- "Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me." The first think that I thought was, the "me" in the poem chooses to turn his back to Mt. Halla, since I don't think the mount is tailing "you" in a physical sense. Then I thought that it could be that Mt. Halla was shadowing our hero, perhaps in the sense that Mt. Halla is an inescapable presence, although "extinct" implies that the fear is misplaced since any fear of harm from the volcano is long gone. The second repetive chant-like line is "Before the reign of the Pacific sea." Again, this denotes a choice. Our hero has decided to recognize and attend attention (the word reign is used) of the Pacific sea. The sea, I might add, does not lose power, and only appears to be benign and peaceful most of the time. Interesting. So symbolically, we have a masculine symbol of a mountain--past its prime? And the sea, I see as feminine receptive principle, particularly emotion. And inbetween this in the first stanza, we have the hint of intent sandwiched in with the line, "Between the simple and the simplified" hmmm. A clue. If I decide which is which, I'd say the two are interchangable depending on perspective. The "simple" implies something that just is. The "simplified" indicates some human assessment, or even an endeavor to make it so. So here we have the first verse: "Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me. Between the simple and the simplified Before the reign of the Pacific sea." Even the punctuation is interesting. A comma behind extinct might help to clarify that the adjective belongs to Mt. Halla. I think the lack of a comma leaves the door open for it to apply to the "me" of the poem. Perhaps equally "empty and benign before the "Reign" of the emotion? L2, indicates to me that place of "no thought". The timelessness of eternity where there is nothing but "now"--the place in the middle of past (Mt. Halla) and future (the unpredictable, ever-changing, yet cyclic sea.) The second stanza underscores the recognition of that understanding, but like a good student of meditation, when the thoughts stray, push them gently back and return to the mantra. As stated: "The chant commences with alacrity" so it's a happy thing that's happening here-- "And everything I see's exemplified" Ah...the wonder of understanding and one-ness with the moment, before returning to the methodical, rhythmic chant: "Extinct Mt. Halla always stand behind me." Third Stanza: The use of "hillock" made me smile. I'm obsessed with nerves of late, and now most people would just assume that the first definition of a small hill is enough. But not Karen -- "the over eager over reader". "It is a hillock bathed in symmetry." I remembered the terminology of "axon hillock", and I agree, I'm going pretty far out there, with this one, but it amuses me, so here you go: a wikispurt definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axon_hillock Now why would I even wanna go that way--because the metaphysical door is open all over the place in this poem. But perhaps it is a happy coincidence that during meditation, the Theta wave is the "gold wave"--coincidentally, Brad, that would be the one in the middle, inbetween extremes of brain activity, as indicated in this chart: http://www.crystalinks.com/medbrain.html So you can see why the L1 of S3 made me smile, yes? Intentionally or not, you take note of the necessary conduit, or "bridge" between Actice and Receptive. And knowing there is a lovely lake in Mt. Halla, I found the illustration in the above link interesting as well. Water and earth and water. The next line also illustrates the justoposition of opposites-- "The tombs of kings in Kyungju modified" I take the tombs of kings in Kyungju as symbolic of ancient Korea, and buddhist traditions. "modified"? This I don't grasp as well, except that perhaps that modification is due to the influx of foreigners (such as yourself) that arrive via the "reign of the Pacific sea." ? On to Stanza 4: "The men contend for lost formality" Oh I'm sure that they do. (one little knowing smile won't hurt, now will it? )And you knew I'd challenge L2 as a bit clumsy-- "That that and only that be glorified." But I'll over-read again, as I ponder...three "thats"??? A trinity? Are we talking a clash of religious tradition here? IF that's the intent, then I like it. It's subtle, it's neat, it's accurate, and I probably made it up. *laughing now* But again, the discipline of meditation pushes the stray thoughts gently back with the mantra. (I won't repeat it, if I type it too much I'll say it for a week, and I baffle enough people, thank you.) Stanza 5 "The grass, the grave-protecting tarp, and she" (That "she" a nod to Gaia?) "with sons and daughters sway from side to side" (nice visual there, and if I'm gonna go with this take on it I'm going all the way to point out here we have masculine and feminine (active and receptive) joined at last harmoniously, and hey--that sway from side to side could be some Theta waves. (*totally straight face*) Then you neatly layer in the second mantra-like line: "Before the reign of the Pacific sea." Final Stanza 6 "But of the man there is no memory" Hmmm. The man indicates someone specific to me, but if this is a generalization of man as mankind, then the less specific article "a" might serve better, but not knowing your intent, it's difficult to say. "Where artifice and nature coincide" I'd like to take a moment to define artifice--from Merriam-Webster: "1 a: clever or artful skill : ingenuity 2 a: an artful stratagem : trick b: false or insincere behavior I put that in there because I like the word, especially in this context--as we have this marriage of objects of beauty devised by men with the natural splendor of the environment. Nice choice. The marriage of all of the above duly noted in the symbolic repetition of the two, finally together, with nothing between them as you write the last two lines: "Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me before the reign of the Pacific sea." No period behind your "Extinct Mt. Halla line" which nicely denotes the unity of the two lines. Which also led me to ponder if "before" has the meaning of "in front" or "previous"--but don't tell me. I like the ambiguity. Deep stuff, Brad. Deceptively simple and blunt, which is soooooo very Americana, but thoughtful and deftly simple in the manner of Asian tradition. A nice example of use of symbolism without overkill. And if you think I made this all up--well, didn't you? *grins* I mean, this could just be the musing of guy torn between two cultures, but that's too easy. I'm envious. If I tried to say all that--I'd have to say all of this Nice work, Sir Brad. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I forgot something-- Mt. Halla is an interesting symbol all by itself. A volano, a mountain, which has become a receptacle to embrace the water of a lake is a lovely visual symbol of...dare I say it? I DO--a physical representation of emotional androgyny! And in history, it was the androgyne chosen to be shaman, as having both aspects of man and woman, the androgyne was considered not a freak, but the best possible physical representation of "God".  Now. Back up top, you! *cracking me up* sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep I need sleep before chaos ensues again.  |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me” Does that mean that you are forbidden to turn and look at the mountain ? “Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me “ Does this mean you are greater than the mountain ? I don’t get the positioning of the mountain and what’s more, on my account, I don’t know if that is good or bad. Will Brad ever enlighten us ? |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
I have to say that when I first read this poem, I sensed that the talker was very arrogant. A word of "always" has put everything under control of his mind. then exemplified chant. tombs The men contend for lost formality, the grave-protecting tarp, But of the man there is no memory Among the live and dead and the disdained, there is a truth...the extinct Mr. Halla and IT is ALWAYS behind ME. Dear Sir Brad, don't blame me if I have jumped too far. but that is how I read at first. Tom PS, extinct..not threatening any more. see an arrogant person always has a timid heart. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Serenity: What a wonderful thing to wake up to this morning. I would have said exactly the same thing! (OK, I'm a liar!) TomMark: I could never say anything as beautiful or insightful as that! Best Jim |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Thank you Jim for your kind words but don't wake up Sir Brad to bash me. Tom |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
A forgotten massacre still mourned and remembered locally and definitely witnessed by the mountain? I don’t know the history of the place but that’s my first guess, half of me thinks I need to google and half of me thinks I don‘t, that this isn‘t as deep as it seems to be, that the depth is a construct of the reader. Then again it could have been written with more depth than I see at first glance (a glance equates to more than four readings btw) and isn‘t just an exercise in form. Oh, I also get the urge to replace ‘behind’ with ‘by’ every time I read it. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_massacre I can't believe that such beautiful place as Jeju , is a hunted place. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Thanks for the link Tom, it led me to this: “The mountain is home to Gwaneumsa, the oldest Buddhist temple on the island. The temple was originally built during the Goryeo Dynasty. Like many other temples in Korea, Gwaneumsa was destroyed and rebuilt in the 20th century. There is a memorial site outside the temple, remembering the victims of the Jeju uprising that took place between 1948 and 1950. It is one of the most visited places of the island.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Halla ‘The chant commences with alacrity’ Buddhist chants? |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Thanks to everybody. I want to respond to each individually, but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed right now. I can say that it was not intended as an exercise, Grinch. I chose the form and style because it is or is supposed to be chant-like. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villanelle It is style of Villanelle. Don't presume that I knew it. Thank you for your style. Tom |
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Yejun Junior Member
since 2007-11-21
Posts 49 |
I'm not going to comment on the poem (I've heard Brad talk about it too much -- he won't shut up. And you have to see it to believe when he and our mutual friend Greg go at it over drinks. They agree on a lot, but when they don't, watch out! Did you ever think it could almost come to blows over Cummings?), but I just wanted to point out that Brad lives near Yongduam (Dragon head rock) and the wedding in my "Weddings" was near Hallim park. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Yejun, Can't say such thing about our beloved Sir Brad. But you may tell some good stories (Like American funniest Video) about him in your poems. [This message has been edited by TomMark (12-04-2007 09:56 PM).] |
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Allysa 
since 1999-11-09
Posts 1952In an upside-down garden |
Brad, I have been lurking silently, as usual, but this is the perfect poem to distract me from my 2500 word paper on the Medieval and Renaissance use of the epic. So, thank you. Ahem. To begin. I adore the repetition and shift in placement of the line "Extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me." I like how that line opens the poem, and how it is a statement to begin with, but then seems to transform throughout the poem. I see Mt. Halla as something stationary, something behind the speaker, and perhaps behind the reader. In one of my courses, we read a story that began with a man sitting in a chair and ended with two people walking up behind the man sitting in this chair. For some reason, this story is drawn to mind now, as if the Mt. Halla image in this poem is a loop for both the speaker and the reader. This is all I have so far. I must now recommit myself to this blasted English paper. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
This is a description of my father-in-law's funeral. Alyssa, Thanks for taking the time. You and Jim both have the same idea and that's what I wanted to do. Mt. Halla and the Pacific ocean begin and end the poem and yet I wanted both of them to be 'transformed' by the end. Chop, It's a good question. Obviously, I meant it metaphorically and yet, if you look at Tom's map, when you're looking at the ocean, Mr. Halla is always behind you. The two refrains are meant to work together (literally and metaphorically -- though I'm not sure I pulled that off as well as I could have). Grinch, Confucian chants. Karen, quote: Yes, I wanted both the 'turning away' and the 'inescapable presence' here. You can try to get away from 'it' and yet it pops up when you're not ready and not looking for it. quote: I think that's a very good point, the ocean never loses its power. quote: Actually, this is interesting. At least partly, Halla represents tradition, the ocean represents freedom from that tradition. This is not a stretch by any means. In fact, I worried that it would be seen as trite. The interesting part, for me anyway, is that the masculine and feminine aspects would then be reversed. On Jeju, women are the upholders of tradition and men are the one's who go off to sea. Don't get me wrong, I think you're right to apply masculine/feminine here (How much more phallic can you get than a mountain, how much more feminine can you get than an ocean?), but the reversals multiply the more I think about it. By this point, I hope it's clear that the last thing I wanted was a simple dichotomy. quote: Yes, I and many others find Jeju people to be 'simple.' At the same time much of what is done is often 'simplified' for foreigners. So, how much of our judgement is based on things that really are simple and how much is actually based on others or ourselves simplifying it in order to get through the rest of the day? I don't want you to take a side, I want it to be 'always' in-between. That people will take sides is inevitable, I suppose. Oh well. quote: The comma isn't something I considered -- it seems to work with what I want to do though. I'll have to think about it. 'Empty and benign' less so. You're original point concerning ocean is far stronger. 'Empty' and 'benign' control the image too much to my mind. quote: Heh, funny you should say that. I was thinking the same thing. quote: I'm not sure 'cheerfulness' if the right word here. Enthusiastism? Yes. I know that dictionary.com says that, but I question whether 'alacrity' carries with it that feeling. Zealotry? Yes. I know I have never read it with that meanin g in mind. And yet, part of me wanted to get the idea across that silence and solitude are not really factors here. quote: I got lucky. As you point out, the juxtaposition of opposites or contraries is one way to avoid taking sides, to approach the holistic. quote: The tombs in Kyungju are much bigger than the graves in Jeju, but both are shapes like a symmetrical hill (or dare I say it, mountains ). If you could see all this in person, you would probably laugh and say something like, "Well, Brad, I used to think you were irritatingly vague or even deeply brilliant, but now I see you just wrote what you saw."Maybe not. quote: Is this a masculine universal? quote: Alas, this kind of repetition is a weakness of mine. By reinforcing that, I was trying to foreshadow the end -- that that was important and not something else. Also, and I really thought this while watching them argue, I began to see this as a dying tradition. None of them could agree on what to do next, the young had no interest in the discussion, and wondered if it would even last to the next generation, let alone my daughter's. quote: The mother and wife: the real stability in the family. My father-in-law drank too much to take that title. quote: Pretty much exactly what I wanted to convey. That moment when Nature and man/woman seem somehow as one. quote: The man in the coffin under the hill below the arguing and the swaying. What I mean by that is that his individuality is lost. He's respected and talked about as a link in a chain, but not as a man. quote: Thanks. That's what I was going before. I will point out that insincerity and formality often go hand in hand for those of us of a certain temperment. Here, I think that's it's both sincere and insincere at the same time. That is not a difficult idea if you stop and think about the things we do everyday that simultaneously repell us and attract us at the same time. quote: Actually, I'll tell. Yes, but without losing any of it's other meanings. It's not ambiguity, it's multiple meanings at the same time. quote: quote: Really, why? Go back to my whole idea of Halla as tradition and the ocean as freedom. Not a stretch at all. I know a guy who used to go the airport and stare enviously at every plane leaving the island. quote: Ah blah, you know as well as I do the value, power, and interpretive explosion ever present in the concrete image over the abstract: mountains and oceans, not traditions and freedom. Thanks so much for taking the time here. Everybody, thanks once again. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Sir Brad, I do expect that next time, you post your background first and your poem second. You have done this twice! Tomtoo |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
You put the time and effort that Karen put into this poem into any other poem and I'll try to match it. Deal? |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
I came here to get criticized but not to criticize ( I don't think that I have the ability to do that). And may be there is a different ideas on enjoy a poem. I don't know. I take poems as mood rather than then meaning. or I just can't get it at all.  |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm soooooooo confused. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Don't be confused, my dear Lady SB. The moderator Brad is blaming me  and again unfairly. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Brad? Brad did this? Um, I'm still confused...Brad's a fuzzy, huggy bear! Kinda like a koala... Now c'mere TM.  I won't let the Brad-bear hurt you. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Thank you SB, Have a wonderful weekend, my dear lady! Ah Sir Brad, remember this, I have teased my younger brother crying many times. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
a thought came to me this morning. Since this poem was about your father-in-law's funeral, so after the "always" I guess something like Mr.Halla has been always there behind me(support) but not today, not today. Today it collapsed on me. could you leave this unsaid? |
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hunnie_girl
since 2006-06-18
Posts 2567Canada |
Oh wow, there isn't much left to say... haha not that I could have thought of anything. Great write Brad... haven't been here for awhile glad i popped my head in Krysti |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Very interesting, Brad. I hadn't seen this one before. It's a delight to see your usage of structured verse, in this case a villanelle. The only comment I can make is on the structure. Villanelles are normally written in iambic, although that is not written in stone (what is?) and you certainly have the right to not employ it. I do notice, however, that you took pains to make sure that each line contained 10 syllables, even to the point of creating the contraction "see's" for "see is", and yet, one of the most important repeating lines - extinct Mt. Halla always stands behind me - contains 11, the only one. I'm wondering if you were aware of that, or there is another reason, or if you are just claiming poetic license. Regardless, the poem earned it's keep. |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Brad, Just got back from Buffalo and saw the poem here. I'd been looking for a place to talk with you about the "willing suspension of disbelief" idea that came up while we were talking about another poem and I stumbled on this one. I've always been attracted to formal verse and most of the time it's broken my heart. We've not grown up in a time or place when writing verse by the numbers, like drawing, was a skill that everybody with a certain level of education was assumed to have mastered. A person was supposed to be able to turn out a competent sonnet or a line drawing as a matter of form. They were generally filled with wooden diction, and the drawings were flawed, but educated people knew the basics. I never learned to draw, even roughly. The time I spend getting down the basics of formal verse and making the process seem effortless makes the extra effort of turning the verse into art a virtual impossibility. There are people for whom this is not so. The late John Ciardi used to enjoy showing off by getting audience members to supply the rhymes for a sonnet, and then producing one on the spot within three minutes. There may be others who can do that, too. Maybe a lot of them. Maybe a really huge number, but I've never met any of them. Most of the forms, after all, were designed for languages with more regularities than English, like French and Italian and even German, which is why the forms are so often called the French forms or the Italian forms. I've always found them a serious pain to write. The villanelle is a special sort of bear. If so many of us as poets are stalking the big poem, the villanelle is one of the heads we'd most like to see hung on our walls. If we're extraordinarily fortunate, we may get to see an example of a villanelle (or a ballade or a sestina, for that matter) as good as an educated person's verse hung on one of our walls. Dylan Thomas and Theodore Roethke over the last hundred years have given us villanelles as poems. Surely there are others I don't know, but would anybody say twenty of them? Mind you, Roethke and Thomas are more than enough. The form pushes us into predictable difficulties. 19 lines turn on two rhymes. You must find seven words including the refrain lines for one set, and six rhymes with the other. The refrain lines must be strong enough to bear the repetition and gain resonance from it, and you can't allow yourself to be pushed into awkward diction or awkward abstractions. Because the form is so cyclical, it's difficult enough to maintain some sort of clear path of "plot" development from the start to the end. If you lose that, the poem will fall apart like pearls off an unstrung necklace. Many beautiful parts, no connections. A few things specifically about this poem. "Between the simple and the simplified," doesn't feel to me that it carries its weight. The first line attempts to place me; instead of helping this happen with the second line, it appears you've been distracted by the need to rhyme and the formal demands of the poem and spend the line setting up the play of abstractions to justify the rhyme. You're still a off balance in the third line, but you've gotten back to the business of locating the poem and the reader literally in space. It's reasonably clear you know you need to do that (should have been doing it the line before, too) but you haven't really felt your way into the poem fully yet, probably one of those early drafts where (at least this is what happens to me) it seems you've gotten lucky and everything's over. You're trying to tell yourself that it's okay to call the Pacific Ocean the pacific Sea. Ocean, sea, it's all the same thing, and it won't bother people every time they see it in a refrain line over and over line chinese water torture. Honest, I've had the same conversation with myself about four hundred gazillion times. I've had to make up my mind (this is for myself, only) that I think of poetry as an oral and aural medium that has a lot of visual features. Other people see things differently. However, if you ever have to read this third line out loud, you will eventually get used to confusing people about the meaning of "reign," because people want to anchor themselves in their senses and will try to find a way to hear the word "rain" and make sense of the line using that reading. You may feel this adds richness. You may also get tired of explained, should you choose to do so, that you meant "reign" rather than "rain." Or you may take a shot a rewriting both lines two and three to offer a more vivid image, using your choice of sensory channels to give the reader a more immediate experience and to get rid of your Pacific Sea. Or find some way to make the sea something other than pacific, such as the obviously inappropriate "prolific." Name your adjective. I'm simply suggesting methods of approach. "The chant commences with alacrity" Depending on the tone and set up of the previous stanza, this could work. This seems to be the tone you're reaching for, crisp, a bit detached and slightly sardonic. A good chardonnay of a tone with a bit of Byron in the background, but it's wicked tough to maintain. The middle line, as these middle lines tend to do in villanelles bogs down in language play and a rhyme at the end, but it actually amounts to a tautology. Think of where you want to start out with the poem, where you want to end up, and what the way stations are along the path. You're far enough along so that place-holding lines like this one can be replaced with lines that push the poem more in the direction you want it to go in and that use more the tone you're looking for, rather than the metaphysical stuff you're apparently comfortable with when you're not sure where you're headed. It is a hillock bathed in symmetry— Not sure here. Bathed doesn't seem to fit with what I read seems to be going on. "Deployed?" Symmetry seems good. Not "It is" because my personal value and ear tend toward the natural speech use of "it's" in general usage. Still needs some tinkering, maybe. I guess I'd want to see what comes out of a redraft of the whole poem with some of the ideas of tone taken into consideration, should they strike you as even vaguely interesting or applicable. Very interesting, very strong draft of an impossible form. It gives me hope that somebody can pull one of these grotesque little suckers off. Thanks and I like the darn thing. My best, BobK. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Thanks, TM: quote: And you're still going all allegorical on me, TM. It's not Mr., it's Mt. Yes, I can leave it unsaid. People don't leave you after they die, they are always behind you or inside you if you want. That's one of the reasons the first word is 'extinct'. Krysti, Thanks. I suspect you could say many things about this poem. If you change your mind, let me know. Mike: Thanks for taking the time. You're right that a villanelle doesn't have to be iambic. There are strong reasons to avoid a metrical structure in a poem with this much repetition. On the other hand, I wanted it to sound chant-like without it being sing-songy. This is what I was going for: exTINCT mt. HALla ALways STANDS beHIND me. beTWEEN the SIMple AND the SIMpliFIED, beFORE the REIGN of THE paCIfic SEA, the CHANT comMENCes WITH aLACriTY And EV-ryTHING i SEE'S exEMPliFIED: exTINCT mt. HALla ALways STANDS beHIND me. it IS a HILlock BATHED in SYMmeTRY, the TOMBS of KINGS in KYUNGju MODiFIED beFORE the REIGN of THE paCIfic SEA. the MEN conTEND for LOST forMAliTY, that THAT and ONly THAT be GLORiFIED, exTINCT mt. HALla ALways STANDS beHIND me. the GRASS, the GRAVE-proTECting TARP, and SHE with SON and DAUGHTers SWAY from SIDE to SIDE beFORE the REIGN of THE paCIfic SEA. but OF the MAN there IS no MEmoRY where ARtiFICE and NAture COinCIDE, exTINCT mt. HALla ALways STANDS beHIND me beFORE the REIGN of THE paCIfic SEA. If that's not what you hear, let me know. If that is what you hear, then we can talk about that extra syllable. I've spent some time googling 'see's', and I admit, I definitely don't want some of the associations I saw. Still, I don't really buy the argument that there's something wrong or that I'm cheating. But, and this is a big but, there is a huge problem with that line as a whole. I'm going to have to scrap the whole line, not just see's. Thanks for making me see that. Bob, Thanks. I see your point about 'bathe'. I'm not sure about 'sea' (but fair enough, I didn't start with Pacific ocean, it developed the other way around but Chinese water torture?). And the second line? Well, that was the first line I wrote down, maybe I'm still too attached to it. Oh, and you didn't talk about 'the suspension of disbelief'. Sorry, this is a bit rushed. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear sir Brad, I can't believe that my typo is also dramatized. I have the sense that your poem is like the arctic area layer of ice...hard and plain and pure and cold and eerily beautiful under it....full of life. Who is going to break the ice? can't wait to read your next one.... |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
If that's not what you hear, let me know. beFORE the REIGN of THE paCIfic SEA, No way in the world can "the" be an accented word unless it is denoting a specific item as opposed to another. What you actually have in this line is -/-/---/-/. it IS a HILlock BATHED in SYMmeTRY, sorry, but you can't put an accent on IS here. Any line that starts of with "is" as a verb is not accentuated unless you are trying to make it strongly definitive..."No, you are wrong. He IS the man who robbed me!" There is nothing like that present here.but OF the MAN there IS no MEmoRY This one you can get away with because of it's position in the sentence. By the time the reader gets there, the iambic of the line has been established. It's still very iffy,though,since I can easily read it as "but OF the MAN there is NO MEmoRY". It's the toughest part of writing in iambic to me, being able to read a line the way you know that others will read it, or forcing others to read it the way you want to have it read. I can understand how you can recite both of those lines to yourself and make them iambic Overall, though, I believe you did an excellent job in the attempt to maintain an iambic flow...saludos for that.  |
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